just got into 5.56 finally but holy shit what kind do i get? everyone is split on m193/m855 plus so many manufacturers.
just got into 5.56 finally but holy shit what kind do i get? everyone is split on m193/m855 plus so many manufacturers.
just got into 5.56 finally but holy shit what kind do i get? everyone is split on m193/m855 plus so many manufacturers.
get m193
any specific manufacturers you recommend?
i just get whatever is brass and cheapest, usually winchester
For me the spec is federal xm193. I build my ar15s to this round but they shoot any m193 or m855 fine.
just get wolf military classic .223
how does one become a neurotic little homosexual like this?
whats your problem gay?
gotcha, appreciate it
m193 and m855 are both great for killing feral hogs so buy whatever is cheapest. Just make sure it's a real load and not some imitation.
do any of u guys reload 5.56. if so how much does it cost per round if you already have brass
unless you're willing to drop the coin for a progressive press do NOT reload 556
is the lee 1000 good enough? I am actually surprised how cheap it is, I might start reloading.
no. it's cheap for a reason.
I've been reloading nearly 40 years now, it's almost impossible to save money reloading for 5.56 or 9mm, market pressures push the cost of those two down to the point where you can only save a penny or so a round reloading it, and it's just not worth it, you'd have to reload tens of thousands of rounds just to recoup the cost of the equipment. where reloading is worth it is if you have really expensive calibers to feed (218 bee, 375 h&h) or obscure calibers, or want something really specific that isn't available off the shelf (rimless 38 super pushing a 125gr JHP @ 1550fps)
This anon is (mostly) right. It is significantly less cost effective to reload (right now). It will get better like it always does, or the government will fall and you'll be glad you can roll your own for a while longer.
I think the most prominent reason for reloading is actually accuracy/precision shooting unless you're an idpa shooter and go through thousands of 9mm major every month. Get the press. Buy Dillon if you can afford it.
This has been my experience too. It's honestly hard to save money handloading common calibers like 12ga, 9mm, or 5.56 and has been that way for years. You can easily do the math yourself.
Where handloading makes sense is for obsolete, obscure, or expensive niche cartridges or for making match-grade ammo for precision shooting.
Not that anon, but have been reloading over a decade.
Any progressive press is fine. The main issue is finding a non stick type powder (not nonstick like a pan, non stick. Think spherical or flake type) and ensuring that there is no static charge in the powder funnel going into the casing. That and the smallish .22 caliber bullets are somewhat more difficult to position if you've ever used your hands for actual work other than keyboard assaults.
Stick type powders clog the .22 entrance easily and can cause significant frustration for early loaders. I was one of them and started loading with a stick type powder for a .223 bolt rifle. I was using a single stage lee then and it was fine, but the stick type won't do well in a progressive press on small calibers. I think it was imr 4064, but I don't recall precisely. It was an excellent 30-06 powder and filled the .223 case perfectly with slight compression. Super consistent, just not suited for a progressive.
Tl;Dr don't use stick type powders in a progressive for small calibers.
m855 pens PE plates
noted
get a bunch of the cheapest types you can get your hands on.
try each, stick with what works best.
M855 is an obsolete round that's slower and inherently less accurate than comparably loaded M193, there's no reason to get it over M193 except for availability issues
It's much more accurate than m193, especially in modern twist rates, fricking moron.
Stop listening to memes for external ballistics.
No it isn't you fricking ape. Any advantages provided by greater weight are more than offset by the inconsistencies brought on by the steel core.
You're such a fricking dumbass.
Will like 62gr FMJBT with no penetrstor do better than m855?
Yes
Will 55gr do better than m855 in a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel?
Fuuuck no, that 55gr will be all over the place, you'd know this if you shot further than 10 yards with your rifle.
Black person, M193 *might* hold slightly tighter groups if you're shooting it from a 1:12 twist barrel Vs M855 from a 1:7.
But if you're shooting both from a 1:7, M855 is winning hands down, as M855 *might* have a slightly increased inconsistency from round to round, but the M193 will be literally destabilized by that twist rate.
>the M193 will be literally destabilized by that twist rate.
lol no it won't. try shooting more than three shot groups sometime.
Literally lmao. Convinced nobody on this board shoots anymore
we cant afford to
you certainly don't do any shooting, or you'd know that the only reason fast twists can be bad with lighter bullets is if you push the bullets so fast that the centrifugal force rips the bullet apart, and the 5.56 nato cartridge just isn't remotely capable of pushing a 55gr fmj fast enough for a 1:7 twist barrel to do that.
Stop being moronic
You're the moron. Nogunz detected.
I have three 20inchers and I only shoot 55gr.
Again, Debunked by based Paul
Ahh yes, I forgot the time a literally moronic fudd on a YouTube channel disproved physics.
do you have any evidence supporting your claim then sir/madam?
Literally debunked by Paul harrel
>M193 will be literally destabilized by that twist rate
Doesn't work that way, moron
I use m193 in all my normal rifles, and I have an ar built out as an IAR that I load with m855 for a bit better barrier penetration, and because I'm not using it as a marksmans rifle.
Winchester brand m193 5.56 has the highest recorded velocity peaking at 3300fps out of a 20 inch barrel, so you want that in your ar15 for home defense, only buy the white box winchester brand, all other brands of 5.56 get around 200fps less in speed.
m855 has shitty self defense properties, plus it can't penetrate body armor like m193 can.
I thought M855 was the AP one? With the steel core vs m139 lead core
You thought wrong dude, the internal geometry of the m855 round causes it to expand into a wide geometry upon impact therefore nullifying its armor penetrating capabilities, it literally turns into a mushroom shape upon impacting steel, it does not stay tight and compact, while the m193 holds onto its tight rigid shape upon impacting steel which causes it too punch through steel and have better AP capabilities than the m855.
Take a look at this to see why.
https://diamondage.org/2020/08/24/solving-a-mystery-why-is-m193-better-at-penetrating-steel-armor-plate-than-m855/#:~:text=M855%20under-performs%20against%20steel%20plates%20because%20the%20projectile%E2%80%99s,and%20spreading%20out%20the%20projectile%E2%80%99s%20kinetic%20energy%20load.
Huh, interesting. Thank for the info
one of the requirements the swiss had was to penetrate a NATO helmet at 600m, the M855's additional mass and steel penetrator were needed to accomplish this. at actually useful ranges the M193's significantly higher velocity means it penetrates better than M855. yes the NATO round was gimped by a nation that isn't even in NATO. NATO has a long history of cuckery.
thats mind boggling. Fricking swiss
No, what you want for your AR is 77gr. M193 is bullshit.
Find me 1k rounds of 77gr
https://trueshotgunclub.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/5-56x45mm/sellier-bellot/sellier-bellot-tactical-5-56x45mm-nato-77-grain-hpbt-1000-rounds/
Love s&b handgun never new they made nato 77grs.
NTMA
I like the PMC Xtac ammo. I buy M193 and M855. I found my 16 inch barrels like the M855 a little better than the 193 but my 20 inch barrels really like the 193. I have some Hornady varmit rounds i use for shooting the coyotes and shit that try to frick with my yard birds. Go get a whole bunch of types of ammo and see what works best for your rifles. When you find the one that works best in your rifles, stock up on that ammo. Just gotta frick around with it.
I see, i guess i'll have to just try them all out. Im so used to buying 5.7 I've been spoiled by only having 1 real manufacturer.
M193 is better for stockpiling. Black Hills 77gr or Hornandy 75gr for your go time mags.
>just got into 5.56 finally but holy shit what kind do i get?
What kind of shooting are you doing? Stuff like M193 and M855 get talked about a lot because they're relatively inexpensive in bulk and most /k/ommandos are military larpers so they naturally gravitate towards military rounds. But if you're interested in hunting, precision, varmints, etc then that's not ideal.
just plinking really. i think im leaning towards M193 from what everyone's saying
>just pinking
don't worry about it then, just get what's cheap. M193 is fine.
Depends on barrel length and rifling twist rate. Length is obvious, twist rate will be stamped on your barrel usually forward of the front sight/gas block. .223/5.56 terminal performance is dictated by velocity, so longer barrel is always better. If you have a shorter barrel, stick to heavier bullets like 62grain and up, they'll at least carry their energy better than 55grain and below. Most rifles on the market today use a 1:7 or 1:9 twist rate, so you're likely going to be optimized for 62grain projectiles there as well. If you're using something like a 1:12 barrel, 55grain might be a better option for you.
M855
But you can find almost as cheap 62gr FMJBT that's even better.
The problem with m855 is that you have to find a range where they allow you to shoot it.
>shooting
>at a range
Kek, also the few times I go to an outdoor range they don't give a frick.
Should I really just stick with m855 for my 14.5" ar (block 2 build)? Or should I buy a mix of the two? I could keep some m193 on hand for training courses I guess
Buy whatever's cheapest for plinking, but if you're wanting ammo for srsbzns get M855 or 62 grain anything.
The inconsistencies are a lot less dramatic than you think. The entirety of NATO uses M855 without any issues. You need to take some Xanax or something and get your anxiety under control.
Literally depends on your twist rate.
If it's 1:7, 1:8 go with whatever cheap 62gr or heavier you want.
>he doesn't shoot innawoods
Longest confirmed 1 shot kill with 5.56 was ~700m with m855 from a 20" M16
I miss when 62gr soft points were 80 CPR.
For within 200yards or so, literally anything.
Longer barrels, with fast swist rates will usually give you shit accuracy with 55grain, 62gr is probably the lightest you want to go unless you have a 1:9 or more twist rate, so at that point m855 is about the cheapest, but if you're autistic and worried the steel penetrator might throw off accuracy, there's 62gr FMJ BT that is pretty much as cheap as m855.
There's some israelite made 77gr that's pretty cheap, and seems to do well, I've never shot them though.
Soft points in the 62-70gr range seem to do the best terminal performance(so good they're hard to find because LEOs buy them all up for their patrol carbines) soft points will drop worse at range, but for the vast majority of real civilian use you won't be engaging at ranges that SPs lower BC will matter.
Mk262
TMK
Open tip boat tail Sierra Match Kings
55gr with every single barrel length I own whether it be .223 55gr Tula or pmc 5.56 55gr and for HD I specifically use 77gr Black Hills mk262 because I use a 10.3 DD for HD. Just my 2 cent. Also, everyone of my barrels is 1:7 FYI.
I want to add I own a 10.3, 11.5, 12.5, 13.5 14.5 and 16".
All 1:7 and 55 gr works fine wether it be .223 Tula steel or cheap PMC 55gr 5.56. Obviously HD, like I said previously, is mk262.
I'm not a sharp shooter so others can chime in. I'm just a casual shooter who will go to my friends range where I can reach 550 yards.
homosexual. buy the cheapest ones.
Speer 75gr gold dots
>55gr has high penetration.
>62gr is what is required by shooting ranges.
M193 is a 55gr FMJ to 5.56 spec. intended for a 20" barrel
M855 is a 62gr FMJ to 5.56 spec intended for a 14.5" barrel
M855A1 is 62 gr steel core FMJ to 5.56 spec intended for a 14.5" barrel
if you have a hard twist (1:7) and long barrel (18"-20") you want a heavy bullet and a hot load
if you have a shallow twist(1:9) you want a light bullet (55gr). you don't get a barrel over 20", 16" is considered the middle of the road, 14.5" is aggressive. 18" is a compromise. this has to do with dwell time, also 14.5" is a carbine length, 16"is a mid length, and 18"-20" is a rifle length gas system.
optimal loads based on common preference
target load:
>+62gr in FMJ, any but a hot load
Self defense load/paper:
>14.5" or PCC(10"~15"): M855A1, hot load.
>16":M193, M855, or M855A1 (all work fine for completely different reasons)
>18"-20": M193 (optimized for ballistic effect)
if you have a .223 the warning is there because the +p hot loads of the 5.56 will chew out the barrel and it doesn't build chamber pressure quite right the other way round.
Who frickin cares? I get what I can stack deep for cheap. Therefore I have hella Wolf lmao and I shoot the shit out of it.