>be me >ed travel nurse within my same state I live in >have renewed this same contract multiple times now >staff nurses here start at $39 per hour >I'm basically a staff nurse but get $110 per hour, though with my contract I don't get a per diem >lol its the ed so the assignments are always random and unpredictable so none of that "travel nurses get the shittiest assignments" shit for me, dog
although I work overnight fri/sat/sun at the hospital and teach tuesdays and thursdays so I currently have no life
May I interest you in the arcane knowledge of savings rate?
picrel
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>americans must work till 84 to have 100% pension
what the frick ?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
pensions aren't really a thing in the US (401ks/other tax deffered company-matched things instead), but regardless, this chart is just showing how saving more % of your income means you can retire earlier
Good choice, I have been using it for 2 months now and its easily an upgrade over the RC2. Everything is cleaner and anyone who says they can hear the difference between them is full of shit, sound damn near identical.
yeah my point was more there's a lot of good suppressors out there for ~500, and that price will get lower as supply and demand both stabilize at higher levels with the new fast approvals.
OCL is already two dudes welding in a garage, suppressors are a pretty open market compared to full firearms and there's no way to artificially keep prices up.
>1500 dollars on a fricking pea shooter manbaby toy is simple and even the uber rich should just throw money away! This is how the world works in moron land!
>1500 dollars on a fricking pea shooter manbaby toy is simple and even the uber rich should just throw money away! This is how the world works in moron land!
>what is a solvent trap
life's harder when you're moronic
>1500 dollars for a 6 inch segment 1.5 inches diameter of the same material your lower is CNC'd out of
Oh yeah it's moron time
>I can’t believe cans are more expensive in the us than in yurop.
They aren't $1500 they're like $400 and up, but yeah they're more expensive. Dunno why you'd find that weird though euroanon: >we typically have to pay WAY more for guns and stuff than you guys
Yeah, because for you guns are ultra regulated and a pita, with a small resulting market. But cans are fundamentally cheap and easy to make at least ok ones of, and for some of europe they're unregulated. So you get good prices. Whereas for us guns are very lightly regulated. In my state we do not even have permits at all, you can just use your driver's license or whatever else to show you're old enough and then get a gun. You can conceal or open carry it, shoot it wherever etc without anything else.
But cans are federal. They've been historically somewhat irritating to apply for, have an effective high floor price ($200) minimum, and up until this year had crazy waits. All of which distorted the market. The low end doesn't exist, because nobody wants to buy an object for $100 then pay 200% tax on it and wait a year and have no warranty. If you're going to go through with it at all might as well make it worth it, which means something durable, well supported, and more gucci.
>That way its not in your name but in a legal entities name instead.
The feds know you own a suppressor regardless, stop coping.
If by some miracle your name was not captured, it sure as hell will be from the shop that sold it to you or your bank sending it all to the feds.
>NFA gun trust is the only way to go my guy. That way its not in your name >you are a Responsible Person on the trust >You have to submit your photo to the ATF >You have to submit your fingerprints >its not in your name
You have no idea how this works.
Silencerco takes your money to be put on back order with 0 estimated time when a suppressor will even be available. This is not including a wait time for the aft stamp.
Fricked for buying before the short wait times. Fricked for waiting after.
>Used, sure >The cheapest new ones are €200
some guns come with them integrated like shotguns or 222 plinkers and used they are less than 200, guns are cheap in Europe used because not everyone has permits to buy
Sure, American ones perform better and have some cool features. But they don't perform 1000-2000% better (or 300-400% depending not like there aren't higher end neat euro cans too), there is a serious case of diminishing returns. And some costs just don't exist, like if you needed to send a nicer can for repair or replacement in a euro country where they're unregulated I assume you can just ship it right back to the manufacturer nothing special. Whereas here since it's a "firearm" there's a bunch of bullshit around that, plus if the manufacturer decides they need to replace it and can't do the NFA dance in the design then that's a whole new F4 which up until recently was a whole new 8-14 months. Building in those costs has just been pure legal waste.
I'd almost certain still have a few really nice cans just as I have two nice guns. But sometimes I'd absolutely love a cheapshit can I can toss on a cheapshit gun and just blast away with and if it breaks in a few years who fricking cares. >but I can't disassemble it for cleaning.
We have high end cans you can't disassemble for cleaning either though granted centerfire is a lot cleaner then 22lr anyway. But even those are still built to last tens of thousands of rounds, and modular core at least is still already the design trend.
That's not entirely true, lots of welded cans to be sure, but every village smith was making them once upon a time so there are lots of cans you can take apart too
some of them can buy guns its just very restricted compared to what we have here. was in france and drove past a few little rural hunting club gun ranges out a long way from things.
>its just very restricted compared to what we have here.
That too depends on the country
The paperwork in general is pretty gay and the laws are fricked but I have plenty of semis with uncucked mags
in europe they seem to be under $100 for 22lr supressors and under $200 for centerfire ones
this is the right answer.
you can already build your own for well under $100 wherever you are, so if they were less regulated the price would drop to commodity+value add, and $1-200 is totally reasonable for that. the fact that tactitards willingly pay $6-1200 for sheet metal in a can is amazing, and it would be priceless to watch the reaction if the bottom drops out of the silencer market and prices drop to reality-based levels
The price of current models would go down some, but new models made vastly cheaper would be introduced. A plastic disposable can for a thousand rounds of .22lr would probably be about $25.
>The price of current models would go down some, but new models made vastly cheaper would be introduced. A plastic disposable can for a thousand rounds of .22lr would probably be about $25.
Yeah this is correct. Current models could absolutely be somewhat cheaper purely as a function of more mass production and less gold plating built into the warranties, but a lot of the modern ones in titanium or inconel are fundamentally gucci designs built around a regime where the wait was so fricking horrible that people really felt pushed towards >"buy a can that will last a lifetime and perform as best as fricking possible in every single aspect"
The US simply lacks any sort of REAL low end or even medium low at all, period. Stamp cost has effectively dropped with inflation every single year, but it's still way more cost then it's already been shown possible to do a true cheapshit "oil filter ;^)" can for, and zero need for plastic steel is fricking cheap.
So yeah if suppressors were taken off the NFA the top end pricing would drop some simply because they'd be easier to service, but like with optics there'd still be people willing to pay 10x for 10% more performance and a gucci tier to cater to them. But 90% of the market would shift downwards to $100-300 models that don't even make sense right now. And I actually think America would end up cheaper then EU, simply because our gun market is enormously bigger and thus would see far more volume pricing.
I'd also be looking forward to more integral options myself, and wipe stuff. Things that don't really make sense under the current legal regime period. Though maybe someone will sue the ATF under Bruen for at least the wipe shit since that is complete garbage.
Try local stores, they might have some physically there and it'll save a bit on shipping and transfers, too. A lot of people still don't know wait times are down, especially if they're not online.
There is nothing immoral about paying a tax and filing out paperwork. I understand that you don't think you should have to pay that tax, and I agree with you, but it's hardly a moral conundrum.
>I really want a silencer but I just can’t stomach coughing up $200 for an inalienable right
Just make one on your lathe out of bar stock and don't tell anybody then pussy >B-b-b-but anon I don't have a lathe and bar stock
Well they cost more than $200, crybaby, but that's what freedom costs.
how the hell does buying a suppresor even fricking work? Every five seconds I think I have it down and suddenly it's all weird and now I don't understand it.
Find a gun store local to you that does that shit and do it through them. Ask them dumbass questions. Trust me it's easier. I used the silencerco dealer map to find a store. All digital, fingerprints and everything. Fill out pretty much a 4473. Make an ATF eForms account. Pay them however they need the payment plus stamp. Wait for it to come in. Wait for stamp to clear. Keep checking your emails to see if you get an ATF eForms email telling you your shit is ready ("approved"). Go to store. Fill out basically a 4473. Take it home.
Oh also I'm moronic, it was SilencerShop not SilencerCo. Browse to see what they have, go to store that's a SilencerShop dealer, ask them to order it. That's how I do it.
https://www.silencershop.com/
Find a gun store local to you that does that shit and do it through them. Ask them dumbass questions. Trust me it's easier. I used the silencerco dealer map to find a store. All digital, fingerprints and everything. Fill out pretty much a 4473. Make an ATF eForms account. Pay them however they need the payment plus stamp. Wait for it to come in. Wait for stamp to clear. Keep checking your emails to see if you get an ATF eForms email telling you your shit is ready ("approved"). Go to store. Fill out basically a 4473. Take it home.
Oh also I'm moronic, it was SilencerShop not SilencerCo. Browse to see what they have, go to store that's a SilencerShop dealer, ask them to order it. That's how I do it.
https://www.silencershop.com/
when they ask you why you want one just write "for all legal purposes" and then write something stupid
>haha give the gubbermint my name? yeah right, I have better things to do like go drive around with my driver's license and go to work on a company payroll and shitpost on PrepHole with my phone that tracks all my personal data, I don't need the gubbermint to have any information about me
I 100% guarantee you did not then, nor do you now, have the money for any silencer let alone something from surefire, but you painstakingly waited and checked every day until the 'one' website you picked said out of stock so you could pretend to complain on an anime site
I already own a suppressor. the backpressure is, as always annoying and cancer inducing.
is it worth it to buy a flow through to counter the backpressure?
Honestly I think the worse performance of flowthrough cans will be a common discussion point in another year or two once the novelty wears off a bit and everybody sobers up. They're nicer to shoot but also just don't suppress as well. The experience is actually pretty comparable to just using an overbore can.
I had pretty good luck just building an upper from the ground up for suppressor use. The caveat there is the gun doesn't run well at all without the can on it, but it's like a sewing machine with it.
If you want to stick to that upper, consider an adjustable gasblock I guess (I personally don't like them, seems like people either swear by them or totally hate them).
Or an AR18 derived gun which sidesteps the issue pretty neatly. I have one buddy with a BRN180 upper as a suppressor host and it's very nice to shoot, and another buddy with a Bren 2 and it's frickin great as well.
I don't think flow throughs are that much worse for the modern sport shooter or larper, it makes shooting more tolerable with less gas in the face and you'll be wearing earpro anyway
I got a Flow 556k last fall, it's fantastic. I really don't like my other rifle cans anymore (only have a few). Flow through / low backpressure cans are definitely the future.
Yeah it's 5-10db louder at the muzzle but it's actually quieter at your ear than a regular rifle can.
The biggest thing is not having to tune the gun at all. I can throw it on my AUG or whatever gun. The flow can changes the cyclic rate by like 4% or something. Works fine on MGs too they say.
Even if you have a piston gun with adjustable gas, it's not just the gas system that matters for backpressure issues, the barrel itself affects things.
I think flow through will basically make up 95% of all rifle cans sold 5 years from now, and regular baffle cans just for like bolt guns or 300 memeout.
As a guy who runs a .30cal can on my 5.56 guns by choice I'm definitely open to the idea that dB reduction isn't everything and that adequate suppression with reduced backpressure is a desirable outcome, but that post (and the fact that he bought a Hux can lol) is just such full of obvious indications that that anon is completely at the whims of bullshit justifications for trendchasing that it's remarkable.
This is why I don't run SF MDs with Labyrinth seals >less backpressure >zero tuning required >dB performance doesn't suffer like flow-thru designs >flash reduction still optimal
he simps for a can design literally twice as loud by hearing perception and 4 times as high an acoustic pressure in an absolute sense.
the point of a can is to make the gun quieter, moron. now have a nice day.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not any of those anons: >the point of a can is to make the gun quieter, moron.
All cans make guns "quieter" anon. And zero cans for any typical gas operated+center fire cartridge negate the need to still use some earpro in much of the time. Like any other aspect of guns there are tradeoffs in practical usage beyond any single raw performance metric. How well it works with the rest of your kit and usage matters. Value/price matters to most of us. A lot of us want to take our guns out innawoods, so weight and size matter. Not all guns adapt nicely to any level of gas, but even for those that do gas face is not pleasant. So if you're not using a bolt backpressure makes a big practical difference. Etc etc.
Basically a lot of us have seen a lot of gun folks try to do some min/maxing thing, and end up spending a shitload on stuff that doesn't result in a package that's actually very pleasant to use for what they will ever do with it. It's all meaningless if you're not actually shooting it. Sometimes something that balances better is just plain a better fit.
FWIW in this specific instance, 5.56 doesn't suppress well at all anyway in particular, and at the ear the Flow 556 does very well at an absolute level. For awhile it offered the best absolute suppression, and it's still top tier. Flow through tech in general doesn't, the Flow 762 does worse then a bunch of other 30cal cans both at the muzzle and the ear. But I still agree with that anon, I have a very high performing but higher BP 30cal can, and a Flow 762. On gas guns the flow is all I use at this point. It's also shorter and lighter. I'm glad to have the other anyway for bolt.
The people who think db reduction is the only thing that matters always struck me as people who either don't own suppressors or only shoot them at flat ranges off a bench. Db reduction is probably the least important criteria for a carbine can past a certain point, Im not hanging an 8" 20oz brick off the end of my rifle just because the dorks at pew science or whatever gave it a good score because I want the resulting rifle to still be maneuverable
>carbine
That's very nice sweaty, but some of us have cool guns that can do things other than shooting double digit grain weight supersonic bullets
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The point dipshit was that 5-10db is not worth putting a boat anchor on the end of your carbine if you're going to be doing carbine things. If you want to make your hunting rifle you shoot a box a year through super quiet then by all means throw on a huge can but don't pretend like there are no tradeoffs to minmaxing db reduction
ime chasing db reduction is pretty dumb when a manual action + subs is plenty quiet on just about any suppressor anyways, it's not like some little 30 cal k can isn't going to be hearing safe on a 300bo bolty
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Try moose hunting with subsonics
On a bolt action gun maximum decibel reduction makes sense since there's no backpressure to worry about.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>On a bolt action gun maximum decibel reduction makes sense since there's no backpressure to worry about.
Sure though also everyone should be paying close attention to FRP in that usage.
But still worth noting that tech advances and there isn't necessarily a tradeoff, all else being equal still worth getting the lower bp shorter lighter can. Like I'm putting together a new bolt right now that god willing will have all the parts come in in the next 2-3 weeks at last. I'm going to stick a hyperion on it because I already have one from a few years ago, and as you say bp doesn't really matter on a manual. And it does offer good suppression. But if I was buying new in that price range right now, that new CAT JL/A1 performs just as well or even a touch better, but it's also 3.5oz lighter, 1.3" shorter, has a hub version, and about 25% lower bp. None of which is even remotely enough to at all tempt me to get it over what I've got, but if I was buying new no reason not to take free improvements.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>all else being equal still worth getting the lower bp shorter lighter can
Absolutely, but thus far it's pretty rare that all else is actually equal: a lot of the more popular flow-through designs the tradeoff is absolutely sacrificing dB reduction for less BP and most cans in general sacrificing durability for weight. Printed cans can do a lot of really interesting shit just by the nature of additive manufacturing but they're also much harder to maintain and repair. And with most current tech, those sorts of things are more-or-less a zero-sum game, so you just have to decide what matters the most to you.
With the wait time paradigm shifting and to a degree the price paradigm shifting with it I think more specialized cans will probably get more popular vs most people trying to absolutely maximize the utility of a single suppressor, and that will definitely change some of the buying calculus to a degree, and as a result the market will follow.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Absolutely, but thus far it's pretty rare that all else is actually equal: a lot of the more popular flow-through designs the tradeoff is absolutely sacrificing dB reduction for less BP
If your point is that you do have to check fit for you use case then yeah, no disagreement there. There are a lot of exceptions and tradeoffs right now, and perhaps sort of general categories within which there can be improvement that is different from another category. Like I'd still call the Cat JL/A1 a "high BP can", even though it's much LESS then a Hyperion let alone something insane like the old Nomad. So it's improvement without downside but still something better suited for for a manual. >and most cans in general sacrificing durability for weight
This I have not seen, you have any citations? In general US cans all seem to be designed to last at least 10-20k+ rounds within their rated use. Titanium vs Inconel or steel obviously is a clear tradeoff in weight vs heat tolerance, but you have ample choices for each and as a practical matter they don't really overlap much. If you care about every last bit of weight like going hunting innawoods then that's not typically a case for full auto mag dumping, you're never going to have an issue with titanium duty in a bolt gun. And if you're having fun mag dumping at the range then steel or inconel is fine.
>but they're also much harder to maintain and repair
Don't agree on the maintain part, and for the repair part they also seem less likely to need it so evens out. But even if you're worried about that there are now designs like the Ventum with a removable 3D core in a steel housing so you get both.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Titanium vs Inconel or steel obviously is a clear tradeoff in weight vs heat tolerance
Yeah I guess this is more or less what I meant by that, that a steel can is going to stand up to more abusive treatment than the same design in titanium etc and as a result there's a definite (thought not universal, you're totally right there and I could've worded it better) correlation between a heavier can and how long it's going to last, especially under a heavy firing schedule. And yeah realistically most people don't run their can hard enough to see that difference, but some of us do and that also needs to be factored into selection.
>But even if you're worried about that there are now designs like the Ventum with a removable 3D core in a steel housing so you get both.
Yeah that's pretty cool. I've seen some posts of dudes blowing up their hux cans and it seems like a frickin major ordeal vs one with removable baffles.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Yeah that's pretty cool. I've seen some posts of dudes blowing up their hux cans and it seems like a frickin major ordeal vs one with removable baffles.
Not trolling or anything, but you have any links? You see it on arfcom or sh or something? Honestly would like to read how that went down or what it looked like, because while not hux I talked with a CGS rep awhile ago about their 3d and they said while they'd seen end cap strikes (which is easy to replace) despite warrantying it they'd yet to see any core strikes at all after years of sales. Basically that a core strike would require core replacement, but that baffle strikes were way more common because the typical cause was baffles being slightly misaligned. But that's effectively impossible with 3d laser sintering the precision is so high and there's nothing to align/install in the first place it's all one piece. So basically harder to repair but much harder to damage.
I guess I can see someone just completely misthreading a can or not noticing it loosen until it's nearly hanging off the end of the gun, or running it so hard they over heated it if it's a ti one, or accidentally running it and their gun over with their truck or whatever, but if a bunch were just failing that'd be good to know.
I do think though having cores be modular is the future anyway, no major downside really, and more repairable is good. Though if Form 4s are going to be this fast indefinitely that kinda reduces the issue of a replacement a certain amount. Before you didn't want the serial fricked under any circumstances even if they'd replace it for free since that'd be another 8-13 fricking months. But if that turns into a week or two it's a lot more like a normal thing doing a warranty replacement I guess.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Also it'd be pretty wild if in like another 5-10 years quality 3d laser metal printers got cheap enough (like 5 figures even) that an LGS, or gun club, or group of buddies or whatever could all chip in and get one. So then you could just download a high quality core design and print it out at cost.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
No links off the top of my head but there was a solid wave of posts betweem here, ig, reddit, and arfcom of a couple KBs on hux cans and they were pretty frickin gnarly when they happened due to the way they're made. My understanding from the posts I followed is that hux made it right. This was several months back and it seemed to happen in a wave, and to me it seems equally likely it was a wave of buyers who had all gotten their cans at once having user error issues or hux having a slip in QC. All that aside I wasn't really trying to shit on or call hux out as a company with that, just point out that as a result of those incidents it seems like a potential major pitfall of that construction method. And yeah, it's one that having removable cores addresses pretty neatly.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>All that aside I wasn't really trying to shit on or call hux out as a company with that,
Nah didn't interpret it that way anon, I've got a flow though as well and no issues so far, on the contrary it's been a pleasantly better upgrade then I expected. Of course also very new so not like I'd be stunned if there was some flaw I guess, was just kinda interested if it was really clear and what to look for, like the dead air sierra fiasco. But every mass produced product has some lemons. >just point out that as a result of those incidents it seems like a potential major pitfall of that construction method
Baffles have even more major pitfalls though, very well known. Again DA was a baffle one and went totally to shit. And DA didn't handle it well either even if theoretically more repairable. So I guess I kinda for now think of it as even myself, baffles fundamentally have more room for error in construction but can be easier to repair, 3d is fundamentally more work to repair if something does break.
So really probably just comes down to trying to pick somebody decent. And also frick the NFA. >And yeah, it's one that having removable cores addresses pretty neatly.
Kinda wild to think about how really we're only in the super early days of this whole new set of manufacturing options and everyone is still exploring the engineering space. There will probably be all sorts of stuff like swap cores and hub and so on which are already on their way to being standard that didn't exist at all at first.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>There will probably be all sorts of stuff like swap cores and hub and so on which are already on their way to being standard that didn't exist at all at first.
There are Euro suppressors that have these sorts of things, but I imagine the ATF would like to regulate such spare parts too and it might not prove as convenient as it does for us Euros
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but I imagine the ATF would like to regulate such spare parts too and it might not prove as convenient as it does for us Euros
Huh? HUB compatible stuff isn't suppressor parts anon, and it's not regulated. Replacement cores certainly are but Euros can't make those anymore then we can (or less), you'd still have to go to the manufacturer for that until 3D laser sintering systems get cheaper. The point is just to make any repairs trivial, you send the can back, they pop in a new core, send it back to you. If the serial #'d housing doesn't need replacement then it's just a repair and there's zero ATF involvement, or even FFL involvement, you're allowed to ship direct to manufacturer and them back to you direct. I've done it with silencerco. I'm just saying I think stuff like that as well as better designs will become the norm, industry is already shift that way, whereas even a year or two ago it wasn't.
Actually the core replacement thing might even allow upgrades. Like if they figure out much better core geometry down the line that fits in existing housings, they could offer to let you pay a lower price with no new stamp, form 4 or wait to just send in your current one and get an upgraded core. It's still legally the same can, just as a new barrel or whatever on the same receiver is the same gun since the receiver is the serial #'d "firearm".
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>If you care about every last bit of weight like going hunting innawoods
NTA. I care about weight but honestly if you're going to care about weight that much there's probably something in your pack that's very unnecessary that could be thrown out in exchange for a little weight added to your rifle. I should know, carrying some stuff that I end up going "why have I been carrying this?" after being in my bag for weeks. Fricking up rifle balance with a heavy silencer could suck though. Also, length is a big one for me when in brush and not clear woods/trails. If I'm hunting something that's not small game and I'm more static, only rarely moving, fine, but when you need to do a lot of walking and searching for small game, length is huge. Wish we had more Tacsol barrel type solutions to get a shorter barrel without SBRing. I think they should shill this thing hard; I'd love to see it be an option for more guns. And no I don't want to stamp my rifle, especially if I end up finding out it doesn't work for me if it's too loud, cuts my velocity too much, or some weird harmonics happen and it's not accurate enough. And what if I want to hunt in (insert state here)? I'd rather just not add more headaches.
>The people who think db reduction is the only thing that matters always struck me as people who either don't own suppressors or only shoot them at flat ranges off a bench.
100% agree with this. >just because the dorks at pew science or whatever gave it a good score
I think it's worth emphasizing though that pew science doesn't give overall scores, they just give data for different parameters. It's up to purchasers to actually dig into the factors and weigh it all out. Higher performance in noise reduction has to be weighed against, well, weight, but also backpressure, design serviceability, warranty, company rep, just plain how much it costs, etc. Hell even for db reduction there are still details there that matter, like FRP.
It's definitely worth pushing back though on anyone who just goes there, orders by ear reduction and buys the top. That's fricking stupid. It's an ok starting point, there are designs that are simply obsolete at this point, but need to actually dig in.
weight of the can is probably the most important thing and sorry to say but both the RC2 and the RC3 with pretty much every SF muzzle device (haven't tried the A2 yet) is an absolute brick
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah the surefires are really overbuilt. 15oz for the mini is ridiculous, absolutely a brick.
Try moose hunting with subsonics
On a bolt action gun maximum decibel reduction makes sense since there's no backpressure to worry about.
Manual action with subs really doesn't need a lot of optimizing to be quiet enough, it's all hearing safe. The only thing I can think of where you'd want a brick of a can is something like PRS for spotting your shots
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Manual action with subs really doesn't need a lot of optimizing to be quiet enough, it's all hearing safe.
nta and not to disagree with your first part but to the second kinda depends on your definition. The industry's "<140dB" one is complete, total bullshit, the epitome of "technically correct the best kind of correct". Just enough to avoid a lawsuit. <124dB is much better.
But again not disagreeing because you can actually do that with manual+subs and still don't need a ginormous monster can so long as you don't go full moron on barrel shortness. It's still a silly niche objection.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah the 140db hearing safe thing is definitely bullshit, you'll shoot a setup that supposedly will meter at 135-138db but is way louder than is comfortable without earpro on, and personally if I have to wear earpro anyways Im gonna care a lot more about length & weight than another 5db reduction.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah IIRC around 140 is the threshold of risking some permanent hearing damage from even a single instant exposure. So if you're a bit below that and like, hunting or something and going to be using one shot, in an open field, then technically it might be "hearing safe". But most of us think "hearing safe" as in being able to practice and enjoy general shooting, including around hard surfaces like walls, rocks, or trees. NIOSH says average person can handle 7 seconds a day at 121 dB or 3 seconds per day at 124. Since max impulse from a gun shot is around 2-4 ms, I figure around there is like 100-250 rounds which seems more than reasonable for my typical use with margin to spare. On the very rare occasion I'm actually at a range doing hundreds and hundreds of rounds in one day which can reach "not actually fun" with big rounds then some earpro is no big deal.
I mean, not that I'm surprised industry would push the most favorable easiest to hit number they can get away with everything is like that. Fuel efficiency or EV mileage or CPU performance or whatever, they don't actually LIE enough to get sued usually but they aren't exactly trying to give a well rounded real world usage picture either lol.
Yes. Got an RC3 and it's a massive improvement over my RC2 indoors. All these LARPerators hate it because of more flash and it's louder, which doesn't matter for most people in most use cases. Indoor ranges you're wearing double hearing protection. It sounds different but it's still super quiet compared to pistols and especially rifles.
I got a Flow 556k last fall, it's fantastic. I really don't like my other rifle cans anymore (only have a few). Flow through / low backpressure cans are definitely the future.
Yeah it's 5-10db louder at the muzzle but it's actually quieter at your ear than a regular rifle can.
The biggest thing is not having to tune the gun at all. I can throw it on my AUG or whatever gun. The flow can changes the cyclic rate by like 4% or something. Works fine on MGs too they say.
Even if you have a piston gun with adjustable gas, it's not just the gas system that matters for backpressure issues, the barrel itself affects things.
I think flow through will basically make up 95% of all rifle cans sold 5 years from now, and regular baffle cans just for like bolt guns or 300 memeout.
moronic answer and question: .22LR or something else? Depends if it's for .22LR or not. AFAIK .22LR everything, silencers included, get filthy quicker.
I remember talking to my old boss who was an MP, he liked talking about guns considering he got to fire thousands of rounds through dozens of models as part of his job. I was talking to him the one day and asked if he owned any suppressors for his own guns. All he said was "Why would I? The muzzle blast is half the fun". Everytime I catch myself looking at one I think of this and X out of the page.
I know a guy who said the same thing. Said form 4s are going stupid quick right now. Told him I'd let him shoot my silenced .22 rifle next time we meet at the range. "But the noise is what I like!" ...I like the noise too, sure, but man it's so nice shooting without plugs or muffs. Hunting is a totally different experience, amazing. I guess now I know what it's like to be one of those 50+ y/o guys who never wore earpro hunting because "it's only one shot!" Yeah until you're hunting small game, foxes, raccoons, groundhogs, coyotes multiple times a week...
So wait for them to be back in-stock? I want to buy an Omega 9k but they're also out of stock rn. My LGS/SOT had some ordered but they won't arrive for a few months, so I'll just wait. When they arrive, one is earmarked for me.
yeah or go through pewscience and see if any other less known ones are close enough to work and still in stock somewhere since they arent big names.
but just waiting is all except now at least not government making you and problem will resolve itself. more manufacturing will happen. eventually will even get cheaper.
They're one of the only ones that offer some good data not just a totally subjective "oh yeah seems good". Though keep in mind you still need to dig in to it, don't just go by the ranking because that won't tell you about bp and so on. Someone did a cool set of graphs a while ago showing muzzle/ear suppression as a ratio to size, basically idea was anything can suppress if you throw enough volume/mass at it so you could see cans that "punch above their weight" with a good design. Too out of date now though.
Also remember there are lots of neat things pew doesn't review and probably won't just due to lack of time. It's like, one dude or maybe two now. But not some big consumer reports type of org that can cover everything. Too bad there is no gun equivalent to that in general really.
I can't wait for the day when the NFA is finally slashed. Cans will end up far cheaper since the tax stamp barrier of entry will be no longer.
I'd also like to see people shift from reddit opinions on cans like >duuuude by a .30 cal can for your AR!!!111, you can have a can for all ur gunz!! >still forced to wear ear pro on subs because you bought the wrong can due to marketing
>duuuude by a .30 cal can for your AR!!!111, you can have a can for all ur gunz!!
I don't understand that one. Sure, maybe that .30 cal can work on your handgun eventually or whatever but man...even for a .22 I'd want a dedicated silencer. When you're paying that much you might as well just get a couple silencers that are made for what you need them for. Instead you might end up with a .30-.50 cal silencer that just sucks dick and end up having to buy 4 silencers instead of saving for 3 good ones (ie. .22lr, .223/5.56, .300 or 9mm over time with more research). If I'm paying $600+ total, stamp included, I might as well get something good. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it works for some people. But even though I knew I wanted a 9mm silencer and a .22LR silencer, I bought two for .22LR and am instead waiting on a 9mm since I know at least one of those .22LR silencers will be dedicated to use on one rifle for hunting, so I don't want to play the "take it off and shuffle it around guns...shit I gotta put it back where it came from, time to hunt" game. The .22LR one was important. The 9mm might be important later, but right now the .22 is what I need. Might as well get what I want instead of getting a "one size fits all" to take its place. When I get the money for the 9mm and the time is right, I'll get one for that. >I'd also like to see people shift from reddit opinions
People will never ever shift from "reddit opinions". There will always be morons. It's been this way since the dawn of online forums and it will be this way until the end of time. >bro, I can't believe you're using (thing, finish, etc.); it's not proven gear because meal team 6 doesn't use it and it will get u KILT in da streetz (in reality, their favorite YT, Twitter, TikTok, Reddit, etc. shill/(un)professional moron doesn't like it or they read it was totally le bad despite having never even once seen [thing] in person)
I'd like to see someone compare dB levels for a .30 vs dedicated.
>I don't understand that one.
What is there not to understand? I've got well researched specific ones, but I can absolutely understand how fricking painful the enormous wait was and the temptation of multical particularly as qd systems improved. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a free lunch, and this is a case where jack of all trades is definitely master of none. It did indeed make more sense to have each can be very good at the specific thing. But "I only want to deal with the NFA and wait shit once" is something I can understand in principle particularly for those who are newcans and don't understand yet. Like, I didn't either, I took people at their word and believed it and went for it, but I didn't really GET it until I ran one. Then, like lots of others, I slowly got more. And the first for each caliber was definitely the hardest, the wait and trouble honestly stopped being so bad after.
I think that is one thing that will go away though as costs drop and the wait goes away. The big incentive towards "use one for everything" was avoiding the wait. More, cheaper more specific cans is better.
My friend does have a .30 cal QD flow-through can for all his guns and we're European to boot
It's not such a bad idea if you're a bit cheap, the decibel reduction difference on a .223 is typically less than 10 decibels
Friendly reminder that you can get an FFL for $150 plus a SOT for $500, buy or make all of SBRs and suppressors would could ever want with no stamp necessary, and keep them after a year when your SOT expires.
Have you actually done this anon or are you posting what you read about? Because the ATF has cracked down pretty hard on "kitchen table ffls" in the last few years that aren't actually businesses. Your call but I wouldn't be casual about it myself at this point, I'd want at a bare minimum a separate physical place to set it up since the ATF does have the right to check the premises of an FFL (with warning, but even so if it's at your house they can check your house).
They do not depend on your acknowledgement anymore then any other law LEA. Quite the contrary we have law enforcement because of people who refuse to acknowledge laws lol. SovCits are fricking moron quacks.
oh you couldn't delay satisfaction long enough to order before this year? damn, what's it like being a serotonin addled zoom-brained lobotomite?
Speak English mold brain
>encounters 4-syllable words
>malfunctions
>says the moron who can help but speak in current year buzzwords
We were telling you over a month ago. If you waited that's your fault. Now you have to wait your turn with normies.
What was the news a month ago? I'm out of the loop on that one.
>sitting at 56 days
>just buy a suppressor
>it's $1,500
get a job, you bum
Enjoy your affluenza and consumerism.
i do very much
Doesn't know what affluenza means.
I do have a job.
I don't larp on /k/
>Has a "job"
>Doesn't have $1500 in disposable income
You don't have a job, you have a master.
I can tell you have no savings or investments
>you can afford to buy things? actually that means you have no money
my favorite poorgay cope
You'll learn how much your money's worth after you move out of mommy's basement.
only the most expensive cans get that high. most run 800-1200.
>accessory as expensive as a decent new gun
I'll just not be a baby and put up with the sound.
RC3s are available. Just have a job where you can buy a can a paycheck.
>RC3
Yikes
Why would I pay more for a worse can I want an RC2
>his paychecks are only 2 grand
lmao
go ahead and pretend that you get paid weekly to safe face
My paychecks are $3,100 twice a month. Am I winning?
>be me
>ed travel nurse within my same state I live in
>have renewed this same contract multiple times now
>staff nurses here start at $39 per hour
>I'm basically a staff nurse but get $110 per hour, though with my contract I don't get a per diem
>lol its the ed so the assignments are always random and unpredictable so none of that "travel nurses get the shittiest assignments" shit for me, dog
although I work overnight fri/sat/sun at the hospital and teach tuesdays and thursdays so I currently have no life
cool livejournal sis
May I interest you in the arcane knowledge of savings rate?
picrel
>americans must work till 84 to have 100% pension
what the frick ?
pensions aren't really a thing in the US (401ks/other tax deffered company-matched things instead), but regardless, this chart is just showing how saving more % of your income means you can retire earlier
Good choice, I have been using it for 2 months now and its easily an upgrade over the RC2. Everything is cleaner and anyone who says they can hear the difference between them is full of shit, sound damn near identical.
?
good to go but the K can is better
yeah my point was more there's a lot of good suppressors out there for ~500, and that price will get lower as supply and demand both stabilize at higher levels with the new fast approvals.
OCL is already two dudes welding in a garage, suppressors are a pretty open market compared to full firearms and there's no way to artificially keep prices up.
>Being an unemployed bum in The Year of Our Lord Two-Thousand-and-Twenty-Four
>1500 dollars on a fricking pea shooter manbaby toy is simple and even the uber rich should just throw money away! This is how the world works in moron land!
>what is a solvent trap
life's harder when you're moronic
Would.
>1500 dollars for a 6 inch segment 1.5 inches diameter of the same material your lower is CNC'd out of
Oh yeah it's moron time
I can’t believe cans are more expensive in the us than in yurop. we typically have to pay WAY more for guns and stuff than you guys
>I can’t believe cans are more expensive in the us than in yurop.
They aren't $1500 they're like $400 and up, but yeah they're more expensive. Dunno why you'd find that weird though euroanon:
>we typically have to pay WAY more for guns and stuff than you guys
Yeah, because for you guns are ultra regulated and a pita, with a small resulting market. But cans are fundamentally cheap and easy to make at least ok ones of, and for some of europe they're unregulated. So you get good prices. Whereas for us guns are very lightly regulated. In my state we do not even have permits at all, you can just use your driver's license or whatever else to show you're old enough and then get a gun. You can conceal or open carry it, shoot it wherever etc without anything else.
But cans are federal. They've been historically somewhat irritating to apply for, have an effective high floor price ($200) minimum, and up until this year had crazy waits. All of which distorted the market. The low end doesn't exist, because nobody wants to buy an object for $100 then pay 200% tax on it and wait a year and have no warranty. If you're going to go through with it at all might as well make it worth it, which means something durable, well supported, and more gucci.
Buy a lathe and build one
dont do it anon the aft will know where you liiiiive
You're supposed to pay the $200 tax and then buy a $50 maglite, not buy some gucci factory made bullshit.
NFA gun trust is the only way to go my guy. That way its not in your name but in a legal entities name instead.
>That way its not in your name but in a legal entities name instead.
The feds know you own a suppressor regardless, stop coping.
If by some miracle your name was not captured, it sure as hell will be from the shop that sold it to you or your bank sending it all to the feds.
>NFA gun trust is the only way to go my guy. That way its not in your name
>you are a Responsible Person on the trust
>You have to submit your photo to the ATF
>You have to submit your fingerprints
>its not in your name
You have no idea how this works.
>Doesn't know why you buy your restricted bullshit in a trust
You should lurk for a while before posting on a board you're new to. It's just a courtesy thing, my dude.
The ATF already knows where I live. As does every government entity. If you don't think we're all already on lists you're naive.
Even builders live in a funny world where they think their accounts can't be audited in a minute
>I AINT DONE NO 4473
kay
Get a backordered one
suppressors are a meme
Shoot a hearing-safe suppressed gun sometime and your opinion will change.
skill issue
>Wah its out of stock I gotta wait a month 🙁
I waited 11 months for a response to get mine you fricking zoomers
3 day approval for me
You don't have a suppressor as neither do I and your fixation on zoomers makes you weird
I bought a gemtech lunar 9 frick off I got memed into some modular k option at the time.
I’m on month 9 of waiting
Silencerco takes your money to be put on back order with 0 estimated time when a suppressor will even be available. This is not including a wait time for the aft stamp.
Fricked for buying before the short wait times. Fricked for waiting after.
i just want my bogo omega 300 damnit its been 9 months
yeah mine was a 16 month wait. I ain't buying another can. that was silly.
How cheap do you think suppressors would become if they were no longer NFA items?
in europe they seem to be under $100 for 22lr supressors and under $200 for centerfire ones
>under $200 for centerfire ones
Used, sure
The cheapest new ones are €200
>Used, sure
>The cheapest new ones are €200
some guns come with them integrated like shotguns or 222 plinkers and used they are less than 200, guns are cheap in Europe used because not everyone has permits to buy
They are also much simpler than what you have in the states. My .22 cost something like 150€ but I can't disassemble it for cleaning.
Sure, American ones perform better and have some cool features. But they don't perform 1000-2000% better (or 300-400% depending not like there aren't higher end neat euro cans too), there is a serious case of diminishing returns. And some costs just don't exist, like if you needed to send a nicer can for repair or replacement in a euro country where they're unregulated I assume you can just ship it right back to the manufacturer nothing special. Whereas here since it's a "firearm" there's a bunch of bullshit around that, plus if the manufacturer decides they need to replace it and can't do the NFA dance in the design then that's a whole new F4 which up until recently was a whole new 8-14 months. Building in those costs has just been pure legal waste.
I'd almost certain still have a few really nice cans just as I have two nice guns. But sometimes I'd absolutely love a cheapshit can I can toss on a cheapshit gun and just blast away with and if it breaks in a few years who fricking cares.
>but I can't disassemble it for cleaning.
We have high end cans you can't disassemble for cleaning either though granted centerfire is a lot cleaner then 22lr anyway. But even those are still built to last tens of thousands of rounds, and modular core at least is still already the design trend.
That's not entirely true, lots of welded cans to be sure, but every village smith was making them once upon a time so there are lots of cans you can take apart too
>can't own guns
>can buy suppressors
that's bullshit but i believe it
some of them can buy guns its just very restricted compared to what we have here. was in france and drove past a few little rural hunting club gun ranges out a long way from things.
>its just very restricted compared to what we have here.
That too depends on the country
The paperwork in general is pretty gay and the laws are fricked but I have plenty of semis with uncucked mags
You would have cheapo shit cans in blisters that you toss away when they blow alongside the premium machinegun rated and warrantied ones
Non-milspec quality cans for 4-600
PSA 17-4 stainless with inconel blast baffle and 10 gen 2 pmags for 330
Hi-point potmetal 3 baffle pistol cans for 75 lol
It would be great. Prices would come down slowly thanks to a massive surge in demand, and the previously accepted prices.
this is the right answer.
you can already build your own for well under $100 wherever you are, so if they were less regulated the price would drop to commodity+value add, and $1-200 is totally reasonable for that. the fact that tactitards willingly pay $6-1200 for sheet metal in a can is amazing, and it would be priceless to watch the reaction if the bottom drops out of the silencer market and prices drop to reality-based levels
Like $20 for some chink piece of shit.
The price of current models would go down some, but new models made vastly cheaper would be introduced. A plastic disposable can for a thousand rounds of .22lr would probably be about $25.
>The price of current models would go down some, but new models made vastly cheaper would be introduced. A plastic disposable can for a thousand rounds of .22lr would probably be about $25.
Yeah this is correct. Current models could absolutely be somewhat cheaper purely as a function of more mass production and less gold plating built into the warranties, but a lot of the modern ones in titanium or inconel are fundamentally gucci designs built around a regime where the wait was so fricking horrible that people really felt pushed towards
>"buy a can that will last a lifetime and perform as best as fricking possible in every single aspect"
The US simply lacks any sort of REAL low end or even medium low at all, period. Stamp cost has effectively dropped with inflation every single year, but it's still way more cost then it's already been shown possible to do a true cheapshit "oil filter ;^)" can for, and zero need for plastic steel is fricking cheap.
So yeah if suppressors were taken off the NFA the top end pricing would drop some simply because they'd be easier to service, but like with optics there'd still be people willing to pay 10x for 10% more performance and a gucci tier to cater to them. But 90% of the market would shift downwards to $100-300 models that don't even make sense right now. And I actually think America would end up cheaper then EU, simply because our gun market is enormously bigger and thus would see far more volume pricing.
I'd also be looking forward to more integral options myself, and wipe stuff. Things that don't really make sense under the current legal regime period. Though maybe someone will sue the ATF under Bruen for at least the wipe shit since that is complete garbage.
Wix 4003 and aliexpress baffle set.
Now STFU and GTFO n00b
Try local stores, they might have some physically there and it'll save a bit on shipping and transfers, too. A lot of people still don't know wait times are down, especially if they're not online.
yawn 2 cans 1 day approval
KAC PRT CRS, SPS300
Bros, I really want a silencer but I just can’t stomach coughing up $200 for an inalienable right. Is it worth compromising on my morals?
There is nothing immoral about paying a tax and filing out paperwork. I understand that you don't think you should have to pay that tax, and I agree with you, but it's hardly a moral conundrum.
>I really want a silencer but I just can’t stomach coughing up $200 for an inalienable right
Just make one on your lathe out of bar stock and don't tell anybody then pussy
>B-b-b-but anon I don't have a lathe and bar stock
Well they cost more than $200, crybaby, but that's what freedom costs.
I’ve built cans for under 60 dollars in materials and no machine tools. You can just weld shit from McMaster to the inside of a pipe anon
how the hell does buying a suppresor even fricking work? Every five seconds I think I have it down and suddenly it's all weird and now I don't understand it.
Find a gun store local to you that does that shit and do it through them. Ask them dumbass questions. Trust me it's easier. I used the silencerco dealer map to find a store. All digital, fingerprints and everything. Fill out pretty much a 4473. Make an ATF eForms account. Pay them however they need the payment plus stamp. Wait for it to come in. Wait for stamp to clear. Keep checking your emails to see if you get an ATF eForms email telling you your shit is ready ("approved"). Go to store. Fill out basically a 4473. Take it home.
Oh also I'm moronic, it was SilencerShop not SilencerCo. Browse to see what they have, go to store that's a SilencerShop dealer, ask them to order it. That's how I do it.
https://www.silencershop.com/
when they ask you why you want one just write "for all legal purposes" and then write something stupid
I've got like 5 or 6 suppressors idk I started getting them like way back in 2015
>haha give the gubbermint my name? yeah right, I have better things to do like go drive around with my driver's license and go to work on a company payroll and shitpost on PrepHole with my phone that tracks all my personal data, I don't need the gubbermint to have any information about me
grats contributing to bidens campaign. played like a fiddle
bro lmao they've been saying out loud they're not going to allow Trump to be president again
I 100% guarantee you did not then, nor do you now, have the money for any silencer let alone something from surefire, but you painstakingly waited and checked every day until the 'one' website you picked said out of stock so you could pretend to complain on an anime site
Buying supressors is the white man gun hobby.
>delayed gratification
>requires tons of research
>large upfront cost
>modification of existing guns
Anyone who has a lot of suppressors has my respect as a gun owner.
>t. 6 going on 8 supressors
Don't defend having cucked laws please
I'm European and I don't defend ours, please do the same to yours
ok, will use your thread for a question.
I already own a suppressor. the backpressure is, as always annoying and cancer inducing.
is it worth it to buy a flow through to counter the backpressure?
Honestly I think the worse performance of flowthrough cans will be a common discussion point in another year or two once the novelty wears off a bit and everybody sobers up. They're nicer to shoot but also just don't suppress as well. The experience is actually pretty comparable to just using an overbore can.
I had pretty good luck just building an upper from the ground up for suppressor use. The caveat there is the gun doesn't run well at all without the can on it, but it's like a sewing machine with it.
If you want to stick to that upper, consider an adjustable gasblock I guess (I personally don't like them, seems like people either swear by them or totally hate them).
Or an AR18 derived gun which sidesteps the issue pretty neatly. I have one buddy with a BRN180 upper as a suppressor host and it's very nice to shoot, and another buddy with a Bren 2 and it's frickin great as well.
>actually pretty comparable to just using an overbore can
Huxwrx fricking done for if people catch on to this lol
I don't think flow throughs are that much worse for the modern sport shooter or larper, it makes shooting more tolerable with less gas in the face and you'll be wearing earpro anyway
I got a Flow 556k last fall, it's fantastic. I really don't like my other rifle cans anymore (only have a few). Flow through / low backpressure cans are definitely the future.
Yeah it's 5-10db louder at the muzzle but it's actually quieter at your ear than a regular rifle can.
The biggest thing is not having to tune the gun at all. I can throw it on my AUG or whatever gun. The flow can changes the cyclic rate by like 4% or something. Works fine on MGs too they say.
Even if you have a piston gun with adjustable gas, it's not just the gas system that matters for backpressure issues, the barrel itself affects things.
I think flow through will basically make up 95% of all rifle cans sold 5 years from now, and regular baffle cans just for like bolt guns or 300 memeout.
>between a 50 and 100% increase in loudness at muzzle
>quieter at shooter's ear
Maybe, dude
Maybe
10db is twice the perceived loudness and nearly quadruple the amplitude, anon
>it's not just the gas system that matters for backpressure issues, the barrel itself affects things.
This makes zero sense.
why would you expect someone who bought into the
>louder is better
hype to have rational beliefs?
As a guy who runs a .30cal can on my 5.56 guns by choice I'm definitely open to the idea that dB reduction isn't everything and that adequate suppression with reduced backpressure is a desirable outcome, but that post (and the fact that he bought a Hux can lol) is just such full of obvious indications that that anon is completely at the whims of bullshit justifications for trendchasing that it's remarkable.
This is why I don't run SF MDs with Labyrinth seals
>less backpressure
>zero tuning required
>dB performance doesn't suffer like flow-thru designs
>flash reduction still optimal
is better
Where did you get this impression from the original post anon made? Get out of the thread moron.
he simps for a can design literally twice as loud by hearing perception and 4 times as high an acoustic pressure in an absolute sense.
the point of a can is to make the gun quieter, moron. now have a nice day.
Not any of those anons:
>the point of a can is to make the gun quieter, moron.
All cans make guns "quieter" anon. And zero cans for any typical gas operated+center fire cartridge negate the need to still use some earpro in much of the time. Like any other aspect of guns there are tradeoffs in practical usage beyond any single raw performance metric. How well it works with the rest of your kit and usage matters. Value/price matters to most of us. A lot of us want to take our guns out innawoods, so weight and size matter. Not all guns adapt nicely to any level of gas, but even for those that do gas face is not pleasant. So if you're not using a bolt backpressure makes a big practical difference. Etc etc.
Basically a lot of us have seen a lot of gun folks try to do some min/maxing thing, and end up spending a shitload on stuff that doesn't result in a package that's actually very pleasant to use for what they will ever do with it. It's all meaningless if you're not actually shooting it. Sometimes something that balances better is just plain a better fit.
FWIW in this specific instance, 5.56 doesn't suppress well at all anyway in particular, and at the ear the Flow 556 does very well at an absolute level. For awhile it offered the best absolute suppression, and it's still top tier. Flow through tech in general doesn't, the Flow 762 does worse then a bunch of other 30cal cans both at the muzzle and the ear. But I still agree with that anon, I have a very high performing but higher BP 30cal can, and a Flow 762. On gas guns the flow is all I use at this point. It's also shorter and lighter. I'm glad to have the other anyway for bolt.
The people who think db reduction is the only thing that matters always struck me as people who either don't own suppressors or only shoot them at flat ranges off a bench. Db reduction is probably the least important criteria for a carbine can past a certain point, Im not hanging an 8" 20oz brick off the end of my rifle just because the dorks at pew science or whatever gave it a good score because I want the resulting rifle to still be maneuverable
>carbine
That's very nice sweaty, but some of us have cool guns that can do things other than shooting double digit grain weight supersonic bullets
The point dipshit was that 5-10db is not worth putting a boat anchor on the end of your carbine if you're going to be doing carbine things. If you want to make your hunting rifle you shoot a box a year through super quiet then by all means throw on a huge can but don't pretend like there are no tradeoffs to minmaxing db reduction
ime chasing db reduction is pretty dumb when a manual action + subs is plenty quiet on just about any suppressor anyways, it's not like some little 30 cal k can isn't going to be hearing safe on a 300bo bolty
Try moose hunting with subsonics
On a bolt action gun maximum decibel reduction makes sense since there's no backpressure to worry about.
>On a bolt action gun maximum decibel reduction makes sense since there's no backpressure to worry about.
Sure though also everyone should be paying close attention to FRP in that usage.
But still worth noting that tech advances and there isn't necessarily a tradeoff, all else being equal still worth getting the lower bp shorter lighter can. Like I'm putting together a new bolt right now that god willing will have all the parts come in in the next 2-3 weeks at last. I'm going to stick a hyperion on it because I already have one from a few years ago, and as you say bp doesn't really matter on a manual. And it does offer good suppression. But if I was buying new in that price range right now, that new CAT JL/A1 performs just as well or even a touch better, but it's also 3.5oz lighter, 1.3" shorter, has a hub version, and about 25% lower bp. None of which is even remotely enough to at all tempt me to get it over what I've got, but if I was buying new no reason not to take free improvements.
>all else being equal still worth getting the lower bp shorter lighter can
Absolutely, but thus far it's pretty rare that all else is actually equal: a lot of the more popular flow-through designs the tradeoff is absolutely sacrificing dB reduction for less BP and most cans in general sacrificing durability for weight. Printed cans can do a lot of really interesting shit just by the nature of additive manufacturing but they're also much harder to maintain and repair. And with most current tech, those sorts of things are more-or-less a zero-sum game, so you just have to decide what matters the most to you.
With the wait time paradigm shifting and to a degree the price paradigm shifting with it I think more specialized cans will probably get more popular vs most people trying to absolutely maximize the utility of a single suppressor, and that will definitely change some of the buying calculus to a degree, and as a result the market will follow.
>Absolutely, but thus far it's pretty rare that all else is actually equal: a lot of the more popular flow-through designs the tradeoff is absolutely sacrificing dB reduction for less BP
If your point is that you do have to check fit for you use case then yeah, no disagreement there. There are a lot of exceptions and tradeoffs right now, and perhaps sort of general categories within which there can be improvement that is different from another category. Like I'd still call the Cat JL/A1 a "high BP can", even though it's much LESS then a Hyperion let alone something insane like the old Nomad. So it's improvement without downside but still something better suited for for a manual.
>and most cans in general sacrificing durability for weight
This I have not seen, you have any citations? In general US cans all seem to be designed to last at least 10-20k+ rounds within their rated use. Titanium vs Inconel or steel obviously is a clear tradeoff in weight vs heat tolerance, but you have ample choices for each and as a practical matter they don't really overlap much. If you care about every last bit of weight like going hunting innawoods then that's not typically a case for full auto mag dumping, you're never going to have an issue with titanium duty in a bolt gun. And if you're having fun mag dumping at the range then steel or inconel is fine.
>but they're also much harder to maintain and repair
Don't agree on the maintain part, and for the repair part they also seem less likely to need it so evens out. But even if you're worried about that there are now designs like the Ventum with a removable 3D core in a steel housing so you get both.
>Titanium vs Inconel or steel obviously is a clear tradeoff in weight vs heat tolerance
Yeah I guess this is more or less what I meant by that, that a steel can is going to stand up to more abusive treatment than the same design in titanium etc and as a result there's a definite (thought not universal, you're totally right there and I could've worded it better) correlation between a heavier can and how long it's going to last, especially under a heavy firing schedule. And yeah realistically most people don't run their can hard enough to see that difference, but some of us do and that also needs to be factored into selection.
>But even if you're worried about that there are now designs like the Ventum with a removable 3D core in a steel housing so you get both.
Yeah that's pretty cool. I've seen some posts of dudes blowing up their hux cans and it seems like a frickin major ordeal vs one with removable baffles.
>Yeah that's pretty cool. I've seen some posts of dudes blowing up their hux cans and it seems like a frickin major ordeal vs one with removable baffles.
Not trolling or anything, but you have any links? You see it on arfcom or sh or something? Honestly would like to read how that went down or what it looked like, because while not hux I talked with a CGS rep awhile ago about their 3d and they said while they'd seen end cap strikes (which is easy to replace) despite warrantying it they'd yet to see any core strikes at all after years of sales. Basically that a core strike would require core replacement, but that baffle strikes were way more common because the typical cause was baffles being slightly misaligned. But that's effectively impossible with 3d laser sintering the precision is so high and there's nothing to align/install in the first place it's all one piece. So basically harder to repair but much harder to damage.
I guess I can see someone just completely misthreading a can or not noticing it loosen until it's nearly hanging off the end of the gun, or running it so hard they over heated it if it's a ti one, or accidentally running it and their gun over with their truck or whatever, but if a bunch were just failing that'd be good to know.
I do think though having cores be modular is the future anyway, no major downside really, and more repairable is good. Though if Form 4s are going to be this fast indefinitely that kinda reduces the issue of a replacement a certain amount. Before you didn't want the serial fricked under any circumstances even if they'd replace it for free since that'd be another 8-13 fricking months. But if that turns into a week or two it's a lot more like a normal thing doing a warranty replacement I guess.
Also it'd be pretty wild if in like another 5-10 years quality 3d laser metal printers got cheap enough (like 5 figures even) that an LGS, or gun club, or group of buddies or whatever could all chip in and get one. So then you could just download a high quality core design and print it out at cost.
No links off the top of my head but there was a solid wave of posts betweem here, ig, reddit, and arfcom of a couple KBs on hux cans and they were pretty frickin gnarly when they happened due to the way they're made. My understanding from the posts I followed is that hux made it right. This was several months back and it seemed to happen in a wave, and to me it seems equally likely it was a wave of buyers who had all gotten their cans at once having user error issues or hux having a slip in QC. All that aside I wasn't really trying to shit on or call hux out as a company with that, just point out that as a result of those incidents it seems like a potential major pitfall of that construction method. And yeah, it's one that having removable cores addresses pretty neatly.
>All that aside I wasn't really trying to shit on or call hux out as a company with that,
Nah didn't interpret it that way anon, I've got a flow though as well and no issues so far, on the contrary it's been a pleasantly better upgrade then I expected. Of course also very new so not like I'd be stunned if there was some flaw I guess, was just kinda interested if it was really clear and what to look for, like the dead air sierra fiasco. But every mass produced product has some lemons.
>just point out that as a result of those incidents it seems like a potential major pitfall of that construction method
Baffles have even more major pitfalls though, very well known. Again DA was a baffle one and went totally to shit. And DA didn't handle it well either even if theoretically more repairable. So I guess I kinda for now think of it as even myself, baffles fundamentally have more room for error in construction but can be easier to repair, 3d is fundamentally more work to repair if something does break.
So really probably just comes down to trying to pick somebody decent. And also frick the NFA.
>And yeah, it's one that having removable cores addresses pretty neatly.
Kinda wild to think about how really we're only in the super early days of this whole new set of manufacturing options and everyone is still exploring the engineering space. There will probably be all sorts of stuff like swap cores and hub and so on which are already on their way to being standard that didn't exist at all at first.
>There will probably be all sorts of stuff like swap cores and hub and so on which are already on their way to being standard that didn't exist at all at first.
There are Euro suppressors that have these sorts of things, but I imagine the ATF would like to regulate such spare parts too and it might not prove as convenient as it does for us Euros
>but I imagine the ATF would like to regulate such spare parts too and it might not prove as convenient as it does for us Euros
Huh? HUB compatible stuff isn't suppressor parts anon, and it's not regulated. Replacement cores certainly are but Euros can't make those anymore then we can (or less), you'd still have to go to the manufacturer for that until 3D laser sintering systems get cheaper. The point is just to make any repairs trivial, you send the can back, they pop in a new core, send it back to you. If the serial #'d housing doesn't need replacement then it's just a repair and there's zero ATF involvement, or even FFL involvement, you're allowed to ship direct to manufacturer and them back to you direct. I've done it with silencerco. I'm just saying I think stuff like that as well as better designs will become the norm, industry is already shift that way, whereas even a year or two ago it wasn't.
Actually the core replacement thing might even allow upgrades. Like if they figure out much better core geometry down the line that fits in existing housings, they could offer to let you pay a lower price with no new stamp, form 4 or wait to just send in your current one and get an upgraded core. It's still legally the same can, just as a new barrel or whatever on the same receiver is the same gun since the receiver is the serial #'d "firearm".
>If you care about every last bit of weight like going hunting innawoods
NTA. I care about weight but honestly if you're going to care about weight that much there's probably something in your pack that's very unnecessary that could be thrown out in exchange for a little weight added to your rifle. I should know, carrying some stuff that I end up going "why have I been carrying this?" after being in my bag for weeks. Fricking up rifle balance with a heavy silencer could suck though. Also, length is a big one for me when in brush and not clear woods/trails. If I'm hunting something that's not small game and I'm more static, only rarely moving, fine, but when you need to do a lot of walking and searching for small game, length is huge. Wish we had more Tacsol barrel type solutions to get a shorter barrel without SBRing. I think they should shill this thing hard; I'd love to see it be an option for more guns. And no I don't want to stamp my rifle, especially if I end up finding out it doesn't work for me if it's too loud, cuts my velocity too much, or some weird harmonics happen and it's not accurate enough. And what if I want to hunt in (insert state here)? I'd rather just not add more headaches.
>The people who think db reduction is the only thing that matters always struck me as people who either don't own suppressors or only shoot them at flat ranges off a bench.
100% agree with this.
>just because the dorks at pew science or whatever gave it a good score
I think it's worth emphasizing though that pew science doesn't give overall scores, they just give data for different parameters. It's up to purchasers to actually dig into the factors and weigh it all out. Higher performance in noise reduction has to be weighed against, well, weight, but also backpressure, design serviceability, warranty, company rep, just plain how much it costs, etc. Hell even for db reduction there are still details there that matter, like FRP.
It's definitely worth pushing back though on anyone who just goes there, orders by ear reduction and buys the top. That's fricking stupid. It's an ok starting point, there are designs that are simply obsolete at this point, but need to actually dig in.
weight of the can is probably the most important thing and sorry to say but both the RC2 and the RC3 with pretty much every SF muzzle device (haven't tried the A2 yet) is an absolute brick
Yeah the surefires are really overbuilt. 15oz for the mini is ridiculous, absolutely a brick.
Manual action with subs really doesn't need a lot of optimizing to be quiet enough, it's all hearing safe. The only thing I can think of where you'd want a brick of a can is something like PRS for spotting your shots
>Manual action with subs really doesn't need a lot of optimizing to be quiet enough, it's all hearing safe.
nta and not to disagree with your first part but to the second kinda depends on your definition. The industry's "<140dB" one is complete, total bullshit, the epitome of "technically correct the best kind of correct". Just enough to avoid a lawsuit. <124dB is much better.
But again not disagreeing because you can actually do that with manual+subs and still don't need a ginormous monster can so long as you don't go full moron on barrel shortness. It's still a silly niche objection.
Yeah the 140db hearing safe thing is definitely bullshit, you'll shoot a setup that supposedly will meter at 135-138db but is way louder than is comfortable without earpro on, and personally if I have to wear earpro anyways Im gonna care a lot more about length & weight than another 5db reduction.
Yeah IIRC around 140 is the threshold of risking some permanent hearing damage from even a single instant exposure. So if you're a bit below that and like, hunting or something and going to be using one shot, in an open field, then technically it might be "hearing safe". But most of us think "hearing safe" as in being able to practice and enjoy general shooting, including around hard surfaces like walls, rocks, or trees. NIOSH says average person can handle 7 seconds a day at 121 dB or 3 seconds per day at 124. Since max impulse from a gun shot is around 2-4 ms, I figure around there is like 100-250 rounds which seems more than reasonable for my typical use with margin to spare. On the very rare occasion I'm actually at a range doing hundreds and hundreds of rounds in one day which can reach "not actually fun" with big rounds then some earpro is no big deal.
I mean, not that I'm surprised industry would push the most favorable easiest to hit number they can get away with everything is like that. Fuel efficiency or EV mileage or CPU performance or whatever, they don't actually LIE enough to get sued usually but they aren't exactly trying to give a well rounded real world usage picture either lol.
+1 for AUG and Flow556k. Didn't have to frick with the gas at all and it doesn't beat itself to death.
just get an LMT piston upper
Why shouldn't a cheap bastard get something like an Adams Arms instead
idk do whatever
If you fire a trillion rounds the carrier tilt will wear down the finish in one spot.
Yes. Got an RC3 and it's a massive improvement over my RC2 indoors. All these LARPerators hate it because of more flash and it's louder, which doesn't matter for most people in most use cases. Indoor ranges you're wearing double hearing protection. It sounds different but it's still super quiet compared to pistols and especially rifles.
This.
If you want low bp rc3 isn't the way go
Build your own. Frick the ATF.
1/2x28 - 5/8x24 adapter
Oil filter
>out of stock
Quite a non issue compared to some states.
I wouldn't even bother with a suppressor unless it's going on a .22lr. If it can't be movie quiet then what's the fricking point?
Related question, how often should I clean my suppressor?
moronic answer and question: .22LR or something else? Depends if it's for .22LR or not. AFAIK .22LR everything, silencers included, get filthy quicker.
I was thinking about A2 birdcage compatible 556 cans, sorry I should have been more specific.
Several hundreds of rounds at least
Is ultrasound bath good enough or should I always disassemble it completely?
Why not disassemble if it's made to be taken apart, not all are however
You know why. Laziness.
An ultrasound will do for 99% of cases
>need a loicence for a metal can
Get fricked burgers
We need a loicence for everything, shut the frick up. I hate you impotent shitstirrers no matter which side of the pond you're from
I remember talking to my old boss who was an MP, he liked talking about guns considering he got to fire thousands of rounds through dozens of models as part of his job. I was talking to him the one day and asked if he owned any suppressors for his own guns. All he said was "Why would I? The muzzle blast is half the fun". Everytime I catch myself looking at one I think of this and X out of the page.
I know a guy who said the same thing. Said form 4s are going stupid quick right now. Told him I'd let him shoot my silenced .22 rifle next time we meet at the range. "But the noise is what I like!" ...I like the noise too, sure, but man it's so nice shooting without plugs or muffs. Hunting is a totally different experience, amazing. I guess now I know what it's like to be one of those 50+ y/o guys who never wore earpro hunting because "it's only one shot!" Yeah until you're hunting small game, foxes, raccoons, groundhogs, coyotes multiple times a week...
you can find a couple on redwolf airsoft for 50 bucks
Everything except HX trash is out of stock, thanks Obama
So wait for them to be back in-stock? I want to buy an Omega 9k but they're also out of stock rn. My LGS/SOT had some ordered but they won't arrive for a few months, so I'll just wait. When they arrive, one is earmarked for me.
yeah or go through pewscience and see if any other less known ones are close enough to work and still in stock somewhere since they arent big names.
but just waiting is all except now at least not government making you and problem will resolve itself. more manufacturing will happen. eventually will even get cheaper.
>pewscience
thank you for this link
They're one of the only ones that offer some good data not just a totally subjective "oh yeah seems good". Though keep in mind you still need to dig in to it, don't just go by the ranking because that won't tell you about bp and so on. Someone did a cool set of graphs a while ago showing muzzle/ear suppression as a ratio to size, basically idea was anything can suppress if you throw enough volume/mass at it so you could see cans that "punch above their weight" with a good design. Too out of date now though.
Also remember there are lots of neat things pew doesn't review and probably won't just due to lack of time. It's like, one dude or maybe two now. But not some big consumer reports type of org that can cover everything. Too bad there is no gun equivalent to that in general really.
just make your own
Form 1. Buying things is for suckers.
>I'm too lazy and moronic to do my own shopping so I'm gonna make a b8 thread
What’s a good 9mm suppressor? Been considering a Rugged Obsidian 9 but I’m not sure how to determine which can is best.
They're called quieters you noguns pleb.
I can't wait for the day when the NFA is finally slashed. Cans will end up far cheaper since the tax stamp barrier of entry will be no longer.
I'd also like to see people shift from reddit opinions on cans like
>duuuude by a .30 cal can for your AR!!!111, you can have a can for all ur gunz!!
>still forced to wear ear pro on subs because you bought the wrong can due to marketing
>duuuude by a .30 cal can for your AR!!!111, you can have a can for all ur gunz!!
I don't understand that one. Sure, maybe that .30 cal can work on your handgun eventually or whatever but man...even for a .22 I'd want a dedicated silencer. When you're paying that much you might as well just get a couple silencers that are made for what you need them for. Instead you might end up with a .30-.50 cal silencer that just sucks dick and end up having to buy 4 silencers instead of saving for 3 good ones (ie. .22lr, .223/5.56, .300 or 9mm over time with more research). If I'm paying $600+ total, stamp included, I might as well get something good. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it works for some people. But even though I knew I wanted a 9mm silencer and a .22LR silencer, I bought two for .22LR and am instead waiting on a 9mm since I know at least one of those .22LR silencers will be dedicated to use on one rifle for hunting, so I don't want to play the "take it off and shuffle it around guns...shit I gotta put it back where it came from, time to hunt" game. The .22LR one was important. The 9mm might be important later, but right now the .22 is what I need. Might as well get what I want instead of getting a "one size fits all" to take its place. When I get the money for the 9mm and the time is right, I'll get one for that.
>I'd also like to see people shift from reddit opinions
People will never ever shift from "reddit opinions". There will always be morons. It's been this way since the dawn of online forums and it will be this way until the end of time.
>bro, I can't believe you're using (thing, finish, etc.); it's not proven gear because meal team 6 doesn't use it and it will get u KILT in da streetz (in reality, their favorite YT, Twitter, TikTok, Reddit, etc. shill/(un)professional moron doesn't like it or they read it was totally le bad despite having never even once seen [thing] in person)
I'd like to see someone compare dB levels for a .30 vs dedicated.
>I don't understand that one.
What is there not to understand? I've got well researched specific ones, but I can absolutely understand how fricking painful the enormous wait was and the temptation of multical particularly as qd systems improved. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a free lunch, and this is a case where jack of all trades is definitely master of none. It did indeed make more sense to have each can be very good at the specific thing. But "I only want to deal with the NFA and wait shit once" is something I can understand in principle particularly for those who are newcans and don't understand yet. Like, I didn't either, I took people at their word and believed it and went for it, but I didn't really GET it until I ran one. Then, like lots of others, I slowly got more. And the first for each caliber was definitely the hardest, the wait and trouble honestly stopped being so bad after.
I think that is one thing that will go away though as costs drop and the wait goes away. The big incentive towards "use one for everything" was avoiding the wait. More, cheaper more specific cans is better.
>t. still forced to wear earpro because it's a goddamned AR shooting a bullet at mach 3.
My friend does have a .30 cal QD flow-through can for all his guns and we're European to boot
It's not such a bad idea if you're a bit cheap, the decibel reduction difference on a .223 is typically less than 10 decibels
its about perspective brokie, 1500 seems like alot when its your monthly revenue
its not alot when you make 10x that monthly
its more like 150
You can make one with $30 of materials and a 3D printer
Friendly reminder that you can get an FFL for $150 plus a SOT for $500, buy or make all of SBRs and suppressors would could ever want with no stamp necessary, and keep them after a year when your SOT expires.
Have you actually done this anon or are you posting what you read about? Because the ATF has cracked down pretty hard on "kitchen table ffls" in the last few years that aren't actually businesses. Your call but I wouldn't be casual about it myself at this point, I'd want at a bare minimum a separate physical place to set it up since the ATF does have the right to check the premises of an FFL (with warning, but even so if it's at your house they can check your house).
I refuse to acknowledge the ATF/NFA etc
They do not depend on your acknowledgement anymore then any other law LEA. Quite the contrary we have law enforcement because of people who refuse to acknowledge laws lol. SovCits are fricking moron quacks.