Japan are skipping previous gen to build the latest one
why aren't more nations doing this? are they stupid?
Japan are skipping previous gen to build the latest one. why aren't more nations doing this? are they stupid?
Japan are skipping previous gen to build the latest one
why aren't more nations doing this? are they stupid?
That's literally what every nation but the US and China are doing.
Japan's fighter is being done in collaboration with the UK and Italy.
Germany/France/Spain are teamed up for their own 6th generation fighter program despite never doing a 5th gen.
Sweden seems to want to do their own 5th/6th gen despite not having done one before.
This i how I felt buying an Xbox 360 then supposedly "needing" to buy an Xbox 1 just a few years later. I skipped it and now I'm a good 3 consoles behind and they still haven't made any games for any of them that I've truly missed out on.
>Sweden seems to want to do their own 5th/6th gen
The Gripen was their last jet, they aren't doing another.
Flygsystem 2020 is still a thing.
>Flygsystem 2020 is still a thing.
Maybe
>perhaps the greatest stealth has been the fact that Saab has managed to allow little to leak out about this aircraft. Either it was quietly canceled or it is the most secret aircraft currently in development.
It's going to be another F-22 lookalike. Fighters have gone the way of muskets.
Probably just won't happen, they'll buy GCAP and maybe pass some of the FS2020 tech down to Gripen in another upgrade block down the line.
I just can't see how Sweden can afford to produce a true domestic 5th or 6th gen alone.
Judging by SAAB comments and Sweden talking to Japan about GCAP cooperation as recently as just a few months ago could mean Sweden is either looking to continue hunting for tech for FS2020, or might be looking to buy GCAP instead. But based on the comments I've seen more likely Sweden is still trying to do the FS2020 idea.
according to who, you?
And they will still never catch up to the US because they lack the basics.
South Korea is building Gen4.5, then Gen5 KF21s.
Ehh, it MIGHT be gen 5 some day, but until they incorporate a radar-absorbing material to the airframe, and an internal weapons bay, it wont be.
They've got the IWB planned for the early to mid 2030s but I have seen nothing about them improving on its stealth capabilities. The airframe itself is stealthy enough being largely based on the F-22, but without the RAM coatings, it wont be anywhere near as stealthy and thus I think would still only qualify it as a 4.5th gen at best.
> Although Korea was able to finish, almost alone, the prototype and the assembly line of the KF-21, which is in itself a great achievement, and that it still has years of development to rub shoulders with the F-35, the truth is that future technologies that would bring the Boramae closer to the capabilities of a 6th Gen fighter are already being explored.
> AI, laser weapons, mach 3+
https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/07/the-kf-21-boramae-will-evolve-until-possess-characteristics-of-sixth-generation-fighters/
I mean, good for them, i'll believe it when it happens.
At the moment it'll be ~10 years until we see a KF-21 with an IWB in service. Who knows how long it'll be until we actually see those supposed future technologies actually integrated.
Nobody is claiming its the best, but other than the F22 and F35 nothing comes close, the gap between a KF21 and a eurofighter is about 2 decades, rafale is a watered down version of the eurofighter, F15s and F16s are solid supplementary fighters but no dated to be considered even at a eurofighter/rafale tier, everything else is complete garbage
>The KF-21 is a cheap mockery of better airframes which means its the best while ignoring everything that makes those airframes good.
The 4.5 gens that actually matter are the Super Hornet, Rafale, and F-2. All extensively use composite airframes and RAM coating on leading edges meaning in a head on BVR fight the KF-21 has no advantages over these airframes in terms of stealth. The KF-21 has a weaker radar than both the Hornet and F-2, with the Rafale being the weakest as it's limited by radome size. All the other 4.5 gens have comparable data fusion to the KF-21 and superior weapons capabilities in terms of payload. The KF-21 won't even become a full fledged 5th gen until the mid 2030s when NGAD, GCAP, and FCAS are expected to be in full production.
Composites are a non-issue now that Japan is on board since they are the leading aerospace ceramics and composites manufacturer. They even started building test airframes for GCAP using new composite methods
>and FCAS
I agree with everything else in your post, but just wanted to point out FCAS is basically confirmed to be pushed back by at least 10 years, the current estimate is to have it flying in the late 2030's or early 2040's and enter service in the mid to late 2040s.
Honestly to be expected when Germany and France were pulling stupid shit like combining FCAS and MGCS timelines. Its so retarded, like if one project runs into delays, then the other one has to halt progress to which is exactly what happened.
there have been Franco-German arms projects that worked out fine like the Transall, Alpha Jet, MILAN, HOT, etc.
let's hope FCAS works out fine too
A decade late and billions over budget maybe
we'll see
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/dassault-and-airbus-break-fcas-impasse-and-sign-phase-1b-agreement/151209.article
I wish it would look more like a flying dorito than a F22.
> F-2
Obviously this is you gay ->
This you weeb? You have no idea how bad you make japan look on /k
Nobody in MIC or even Japan considers the F2 even at a stock F16 level, its not even comparable to a MIG29, probably even worse than a Tejas and no where close to an FA50
Radar signature for the KF21 is only surpassed by the F22 and F35, whereas the F22/F35 have a radar signature of a raindrop, the KF21 has a radar signature of an apple seed, the eurofighter has the radar signature of a softball
>Nobody in MIC or even Japan considers the F2 even at a stock F16 level
The top USFJ commander considered it better than block 50/52 F-16s
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/usfj-commander-takes-a-spin-in-japan-s-new-f-2-fighter-1.21663
>The U.S. commander said he was impressed with the F-2, which is designed and built by the Japanese. The aircraft has some capabilities that our aircraft does not, Waskow said, mentioning the Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, which has three times the range of a conventional antenna.
Lmfao you are a fucking moron posting an article from 2 decades ago, this piece of trash wouldl get wrecked by Chinese garbage let alone NATO tier weapons, I wish a painful cancer to you and all of your family weeb
Bro, you forgot to post shirtless pics of Korean soldiers or use your catchphrase "brutally mogs." you didn't even mention SLBMs. Are you feeling okay?
But you forgot to post your pictures pushing the trannies in the US military, did you forget to dilate today? Lmfao
> It's ma'am!!!
Lmfao
This weeb posted partial pics of his face and arms and is a confirmed chud, yes we get it that you think the f2 is better than the F22 + F35 combined, even if the row has never even heard of it, lmfao
Wrong on all counts
I hate Japan. I hate Korea. I hate China. But most of all I hate your retarded fucking posts.
We should have let the Norks kill all of you fucks.
And I have NEVER EVER posted a pic that I took on here.
Don't listen to him. He was the ones who posted the pics. He stole some images of some twink off of a news article and claimed he was actually half jap half nordic. Then 1/3 jap 3/4 nordic. then half jap half nordic again. He did it to "prove" that he wasn't a moron and actually a self hating jap who thinks korea is better. It literally took a single reverse image search to prove he was lying and unironically larping as a jap twink obsessed with muscular korean men. Since it was proven to be obvious bullshit and he looked like a fag hes trying to deflect and act like it was someone else, but its very obviously still him because he still acts like the pics were real even now.
Hilarious
>Nobody in MIC or even Japan considers the F2 even at a stock F16 level, its not even comparable to a MIG29, probably even worse than a Tejas and no where close to an FA50
And your source for this is
>"dude trust me, I'm just some random previously pimped out jap/nord living in the US so I CLEARLY have my ear to the ground in all the MIC social circles"
sorry but I'm not gonna just trust you on that one
Kek, moronshill is unmistakable.
Tell us about SLBMs
>Radar signature for the KF21 is only surpassed by the F22 and F35, whereas the F22/F35 have a radar signature of a raindrop, the KF21 has a radar signature of an apple seed, the eurofighter has the radar signature of a softball
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/south-korea-readies-its-kf-21-next-generation-fighter-jet-for-takeoff
>Ultimately, once in service, work is expected to begin on a more advanced derivative that will have an internal weapons bay, among other new low-observable features. In this way, the initial KF-21 will likely have around the same radar cross-section as Eurofighter Typhoon, before later enhancements reduce this significantly.
The RCS of the KF-21 is commonly stated as 0.5m^2 which is about the same as the EFT.
>Softball KF-21
Meanwhile for the Mitsubishi X-2
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Biotechnology/Japan-s-stealth-fighter-promises-more-than-military-defense
>However, the X-2 reportedly has an extremely small radar cross section. How small? "It looks no bigger than a giant beetle viewed from tens of kilometers away," Miwa said.
Absolutely fucking mogged when the X-2 has a smaller RCS than the KF-21.
Lolololol x2 is vaporware worse than egyptian or tanzanian alleged jet fighters, without exaggeration turkey is lightyears ahead of japs in aerospace and turkey is basically a poverty version of nato
see
>Japan
>Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
Lol, can’t even make passenger jets. Japan is geriatric boomer shithole, they couldn’t even fix the wing cracking on their F2s until they enlarged the wings.
moron, they WANTED larger wings, the whole point of the F-2 was to increase the range to allow for further patrol range.
> F2 = take a perfectly fine F16 and make it worse while spending $50+ million in modifications per unit to provide wages for Mitsubishi workers
Sadly the japanese make the chinese, russians and indians look competent at least as far as in the air, this kind of stuff doesn't even happen with thirdies
oh look, the moronshill decided to come back and reply to himself
You ->
This you weeb? You have no idea how bad you make japan look on /k
Nope, have not posted here in a few weeks chud, lmfao
chud, how does this pic make you feel? I guess people don't like japs very much, they let the euros and other asians go and only killed the japs and bongs lmfao
The crazy part is the killer is a bong based on the london accent in the video, not even a raghead
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/isis-murdered-kenji-goto
Good ol' Jihadi Jack
This filthy frank video wasn't one of his best honestly
The entire raghead culture needs to be eliminated by force, full stop
Big Japanese and anglo cock
>f2
lmao, literally every single time weeb chuds just can't help themselves.
you realize even japs themselves think the f2 is a failure, right?
imagine if the gripen was like 5 times more expensive. that's how retarded the f2 is.
>you realize even japs themselves think the f2 is a failure, right?
Why won't you ever source this even though you repeat it in Japan threads CONSTANTLY?
moron, fucking read instead of touching yourself to tranime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-2
>jap government approved an order for 141
>but that was soon cut to 130
>structural problems resulted in service entry being delayed until 2000
>issues with cost-efficiency
>orders for the aircraft were curtailed to 98 (including four prototypes)
>confirmed that production of the F-2 would end and no more F-2 fighters will be produced by the manufacturer
>As of 2014 there are 61 single-seaters flying, and 21 two-seat trainers (82 remaining from 98)
it's a fucking plane that japs gave up on and didn't look back at
here's some more you ape
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/29143-japan-mitsubishi-f-2-loses-canopy
>F-2 fighter jet loses canopy during interception
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/02/20/national/asdf-loses-contact-f-2-fighter-jet-off-yamaguchi/
>two crew members of an Air Self-Defense Force F-2 fighter jet were rescued Wednesday morning after their aircraft crashed
get absolutely blown out, weeb
Ahh so since the F-22 orders were cut from 750 to 187 the F-22 is obviously also a failure.
have a nice day moron, you're too obvious.
Only 177 of the 195 (187 + 8 prototypes) produced are still in service.
So clearly the US has abandoned the F-22 and isn't looking back.
>unironically compares the f2 to the F-22.
another mind completely broken by tranime. like I said, ywnbaw
I'm not comparing the two, I'm just applying the same litmus test you used for the F-2 to the F-22.
a couple dozen F-22s can make the entire world kneel
f2s are crashing into the ocean
but by all means, continue the screeching. It really helps your case how you're thinking about Korea when discussing an American plane.
Again, I'm not comparing the F-2 and F-22, if your source for the F-2 sucks is the original number planned and the actual number built is your PRIMARY reasoning, then pointing out the EXACT same scenario with the F-22 shows your original premise is retarded and is in no way proof that Japan thinks the F-2 is a failure like you claimed.
You also used to make random claims that the F-2 kept killing Japanese pilots so they refused to fly the F-2, even though no pilot has ever died flying the F-2.
You are talking to this guy ->
This you weeb? You have no idea how bad you make japan look on /k
87 discrete posters itt and this gay is over half of them, this gay is on here 24/7/365 and constantly posts garbage like this:
He's a confirmed homo by his own admission that never leaves his fatass mother's basement or /k
Lmfao
Kek i haven't even really been posting in this thread, I've been watching you breakdown though which has been fun like usual.
Lol you misunderstand, we are mocking you weeb, you've probably single handedly made japan the most hated nation on /k, you do realize that any real japanese despises you and your kind LMFAO
As I've said before, I'm not a weeb, I even support Korea in many things, I'll just happily call out liars like yourself that shit on Japan with bullshit fake arguments.
The KF-21 is a great 4.5th gen fighter, and if they can manage to get Block 3 production with an intensely weapons bay working then it might even qualify as 5th gen one day. But if you're going to sit here and lie about the F-2, lie about NGAD exports, lie about Japanese tech capabilities, etc. Then yea I'll call you out in it every single time and if you weren't going around posting pictures of shirtless Korean men I might not even call you a moronshill. But since it's ALWAYS Korea you prop up while shitting on Japan (except the past few weeks where you've started to shill for turkey's TF-X fighter too) then I'll happily call you a moronshill.
Again, I've got nothing against Korea and no particular love for Japan. I just can't stand lying shills.
>intensely weapons bay
Internal
Meds. Now.
Look I'm >You now. Posting that doesn't mean shit.
That's why I said 'then'. It implies something that will be added later. AFAIK Block 3 (the stealth version) is still part of the development program.
Block 3 just adds the IWB, it doesn't add any stealth coatings or something like that.
>that's literally what every nation but the US and China are doing
>then a F-22 shows up and club-seals everyone
Is 6th gen anything but marketing fluff? At least with 5th gen you have several criteria to separate it from 4ths and the same goes for every gen except for 6th from 5th aside from vague "it'll be better"s
6th gen is 5th gen + AI drone wingmen and highly networked sensors, which the F-35 could likely be upgraded to later if desired.
There seems to also be a push towards very long range, high speed missile trucks. Think of the role the Mig-31 has been playing, firing AA missiles from inside Russian territory. The J-20 is likely meant to fill a similar role but with the addition of stealth technology. I suspect NGAD will be the first true 6th gen implementation of this concept. F-35s, wingman drones, and AWACS to spot targets and interfere with enemy sensors, NGADs hanging back launching missiles from obscene ranges with enough power to give them a nice speed boost.
Pic rel the only true 6th gen airplane, y'all coping.
>6th from 5th aside from vague "it'll be better"s
These all sound like 5th-generation concepts to me, including the SR-72.
A true 6th-gen combat aircraft might include
>orbital capability either SSTO or TSTO
>energy weapons and CIWS
>linear fusion engine
>visual, radar and IR stealth, including from rear at least in orbit
>possible transmedia if the Pais patents are real
Laser-based anti-drone technology is already here and being operationalized, and 6th gen isn't going to have the powerplant to continuously power energy weapons. You'll see a role bifurcation of 5th gen aircraft to gain supremacy over drones, e.g. most of the aircraft in service right now are stealth bombers or drone controllerssensory platforms for low-cost drones, with air superiority fighters coming later that primarily use lasers to shoot down andor blind enemy aircraft from a distance. You'll see plug-in packages for EW, fire-and-loiter munitions for jammingdecoys, and a lot of new specialized weaponry.
6th gen will be primarily laser-based and microwave-based weaponry with SSTOTSTO, a heavily upgraded visual-spacial detection suite, improved RadarIR Stealth (because when you're using lasers, not being seen is the only way to fucking stay alive), and the capacity to deliver very large, very heavy munitions with the munitions being specializable. They are also going to be the size of a SR-71 and are likely to be designed to stay in the air or in space for weeks at a time. Main purpose of those will be to provide air superiority over a large battlespace, e.g. spotting and shooting down dozens of aircraft at a time or chucking a bunker buster capible of penetrating 100's of feet into a mountainside and detonating a 10kt nuke.
All of that is going to be based upon the US steel foundaries putting in gas capture and seperation vessels to capture noble gasses, improved superconductors, miniaturized nuclear powerplants, and improved rocket chemistries all of which we either have or are in the final research stage.
>6th gen isn't going to have the powerplant to continuously power energy weapons
Lockheed's linear fusion power plant is small enough to put in an aircraft and is based off a linear fusion rocket engine. It should be released in the next few years for energy production but it's a rocket at heart. There absolutely will be a powerplant for energy weapons in aircraft in the next two decades.
>more posting...
So you actually agree with me on DEWs and powerplants.
>and 6th gen isn't going to have the powerplant to continuously power energy weapons.
Dude you wat. You just don't understand how ridiculously powerful jet engines are. F-35B engine during vertical take off generates 29000 (!) hecking horsepower on the lift fan shaft, that is on top of the jet thrust from the nozzle.
2000 KWT laser output is Death Ray tier, and at 25% total efficiency of energy conversion (totally doable with today fiber laser tech) you need just 8000 KWT shaft horsepower.
tldr jet engine can power all lasers in the world.
>orbital capability either SSTO or TSTO
Militarily useless, and unachievable without sacrificing every other capability to the point of uselessness.
>linear fusion engine
>visual, radar and IR stealth, including from rear at least in orbit
>possible transmedia
Indecipherable sci-fi buzzword gobbledymoron. Oh but I'm sure the fucking CIA or whatever has it because tic tacs and stuff.
Can't believe I replied to this shit.
Feeling sads today, fren? None of that is buzzwords, that's what aerospace engineers are talking about in real terms.
>he doesn't know
Remember, if skunkworks is telling you about a project, it means what they actually have is a generation or 2 ahead.
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/compact-fusion.html
The US already does this with 4th and 5th gen aircraft. We've even got unmanned jets/drones guiding and/or releasing drone swarms. 6th gen needs to be more clearly defined, otherwise it's just a larp term.
>Except for 6th to 5th Gen aside from vague "it'll be better"s
What? What is your conception of 6th generation at all?? It's been pretty clear what the idea is, at least from the USAF, like they have literally have spelled it out for us?
>NGAD is a "family of systems"
6th Generation is meant to denominate an idea of placing datalinking at a maximum, offloading combat work to drones, and straight improvements through advanced technologies such as, but not including:
>EW and microwave jammers
>Laser CIWS or similar
>Supposed mini-scale kinetic anti-missile missiles
>Experimental RAM
>Supposedly even visual signature reduction as well as IR
>Variable cycle engines, main focus for USAF NGAD being on high efficiency to carry it to the pacific, or high bypass cooling for energy weapons, or kicking it into high gear and supercruising out of there
And above all else
>Heavy, heavy, heavy emphasis on exploiting network-centric warfare
...The manned fighter component of this "family of systems" is meant to be an extremely survivable craft.
It seems what the USAF at least wants from their 6th Gen, for NGAD and even the B-21, to make them into this highly survivable, hard to detect, and still combat-capable mini-AWACS, if you will. Combining, fusing, and distributing vast quantities of data from many different sources, and collecting other data points from other compilers, that sort of stuff. The way I would try to compare 6th Gen to 5th, in simple laymen's terms is like putting an of escort of F-35s, and access to a full ISR suite, in front of an F-22 that's highly specialized to survive and hide, with a full AWACS onboard, per every F-22. And this isn't a synthesis of different units, it's the baseline organization for a NGAD element. Iirc the idea for now is 2 drones per NGAD.
Same with GCAP.
Japan said they expect just the sensors, networking and other electronics of GCAP to compose 25% of total development costs.
> ISANKE/ICS (Integrated Sensing and Non Kinetic Effects (ISANKE) and Integrated Communications Systems (ICS)) would comprise 25 percent of GCAP expenditure but provide more than 50% of the solution’s overall capability. He compared this to legacy aircraft where electronics would account for between 10 and 15 percent cost and capability.
>
>...The manned fighter component of this "family of systems" is meant to be an extremely survivable craft.
this and the focus on networking makes me (and i believe quite a few commentators) suspect that the NGAD will not be a single pilot craft, and the WSO role is coming back as something like a "NSO", or hell, even enabling direct piloting of networked unmanned craft (in which case it's likely any and all crew seats will have complete avionics suites).
one way i could see this going is using the NGAD as an extremely stealthy, extremely fast, extremely survivable hub that can be left on autopilot while its crew controls multiple unmanned combat vehicles in the NGAD family from their seats aboard the manned proportion, able to switch at a moment's notice to direct control of the manned craft in case evasion/defense is needed. "one" airframe could turn into effectively a stealth drone carrier able to carry out the same missions as an entire squad of fighters, or a squad of them could pose the same threat as an entire fleet of conventional fighters
What's the point of fighters when everyone is jamming and counterjamming each other? What does AWACS provide in the era of satellites?
>What's the point of fighters when everyone is jamming and counterjamming each other?
Having multiple radars in the air let you parallax the jammers. You can also close to jamming burnthrough range or just switch to IRST.
> What does AWACS provide in the era of satellites?
Consistency and detail. LEO satellites need to move fast or they'll fall out of the sky. Like 7 km/s fast. They can't stay on station to monitor a situation. You also don't want to fuck with their orbits too much because fuel is limited.
GEO orbit satellites are 35,786 km away. They aren't getting much detail from that distance even before atmospheric distortion.
Starshield? Also why don't we just sideload malware onto enemy software instead of all this?
Starlink is still operating at 550km up. The larger network is also more vulnerable to malware and digital attacks. A manned aircraft will get an encrypted hard drive hand delivered by a cybersecurity specialist with a clearance level. There's no other way to reprogram the aircraft.
this all sound just like your typical over engineered word salad. What is the point of a front line combat airframe that costs space program levels of money in of itself?
>what's the point of winning?
Go back to your M113 Mike
It's easy define next gen: next gens defeats previous generations easy peasy.
Now it's food for thought if so called 6th gen fighters meet this criteria.
>is having loyal wingmen scout for you and possibly block missiles actually useful
Are you retarded?
But that's shit we can integrate to 5th gens, what makes 6ths so special if 5ths are just a few upgrades away from being identical? This isn't a 3 to 4 jump where thirds couldn't do half of what 4ths could do or 4 to 5 where you can't make 4ths stealth and the tech is way to advanced to reasonably integrate into the older airframes. If anything 6th gen is just 5.5 or 5+
Japan has tried since the 1960s to develop an indigenous commercial plane to compete against Airbus and Boeing, they finally caved in and gave up a few months ago without a single successful plane, Japan trying to developed a 6th gen is like saying Turkey has a 6th gen development program...
Only the US has a true advanced aerospace defense sector
Mitsubishi pulled out because it was obviously a financial failure, the plane itself had no real issues besides them not having the proper redundant systems for initial FAA approval. They fixed that and were getting ready to try for FAA approval again but then COVID happened and the airline industry wasn't gonna order these planes and many of their customers had already dropped out.
So yeah, they canned the plane. The plane itself flew just fine though.
what retarded logic, French absolutely dominate the commercial airliner business, so that means they can conjure up a 6th gen fighter tomorrow?
Japan is the only country besides China, Russia, and the US, to even attempt to build a 5th gen prototype.
Sure, they decided to buy F-35 instead because it was way more mature and cheaper, but the idea they're on the same level as Turkey? You're obviously a moron or a troll.
Lmfao Japan is no different than Vietnam or the Phillipines in aerospace, not a single plane since the zero, at least Turkey has a claimed 5th generation in the skies, you are crazy or simply a retarded incel weaboo if you think Japan is anywhere near Turkey in aerospace
Lmao
Japan can actually make their own high performance engines, turkey is buying GE engines for the 5th gen prototype and after 5+ years of hunting haven't found a SINGLE western engine manufacturer willing to offer them technology transfer on the engines.
>turkey is buying GE engines for the 5th gen prototype and after 5+ years of hunting haven't found a SINGLE western engine manufacturer willing to offer them technology transfer on the engines
No they aren't. That was basically a rumor that never panned out and it was basically a stopgap measure while they were developing their own engines, which are now close to completion.
Well let's see, turkey accepted delivery of 10 GE F110 turbines in 2022, in 2023 they took the TF-X out and guess what, the engines look basically identical to a GE F110 thrust nozzles.
Turkey still hasn't announced what western nation/engine manufacture they're working with for their own domestic engines, and since RR said o tech transfer and I doubt GE is giving them tech transfer. Turkey is left with a vaporware domestic engine and more imported F110s from the US.
Importing GE engines does not a domestic aircraft make.
>said o tech transfer
Said no tech transfer
>Lmfao Japan is no different than Vietnam or the Phillipines in aerospace, not a single plane since the zero
no (You) for you
Based and US-2 pilled
>Russia
Lmao
I never said they were good or capable of putting them into production
but they DID attempt 5th gen
Turkey has the tfx which is at least a proper attempt at a 5th gen, Japan has nothing since the zero
Turkey > Japan in aerospace and its not even close
Turkey's tfx
The last (and only) indigenous fighter plane ever to come from Japan, you are a moron if you think Japan is anywhere near Turkey in aerospace
?
Tfx was designed by BAE
>brutally mogs the moronshill
> posts archaic prop planes that were simply copies of US aircrafts
South Korea has the most of advanced jet fighter in human history other than an F22 to F35, specifically designed to be a "baby raptor" with specifications all targeted to be better than the eurofighter
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-koreas-kf-21-passes-combat-assessment-to-accelerate-production
You can dream all you want, but KF-21 isn't advanced, it's just a Super Hornet with a body kit, powered by the same American F414 engines, composed entirely of the technologies developed decades ago by the countries that are working on 6th generation now.
Its a stepping stone to a proper Gen 5 fighter. Its designed to replace 50+ year old designs (F4 & F5) in South Korean service.
Impressive, a prototype in 2023 designed to be better than something from the early 90s.
>other than F-22
You give them too much credit
Lmao, Turkey is buying engines from GE (with ~17,000lbf of thrust) because they can't make their own.
Meanwhile japan tested a fully domestic engine making 24,000lbf of thrust in 2018.
And has been making a fully domestic ~13,000lbf engine since the early 2000s.
But sure, please tell me how turkey is SOOO much better than japan when it comes to aerospace design and tech.
Mitsubishi also bought Bombardier so there's that
While true, AFAIK they are only overseeing maintenance contracts and similar shit. Production of the CRJ series ended in 2020.
>Japan has tried since the 1960s to develop an indigenous commercial plane to compete against Airbus and Boeing
They did have one plane, the YS-11, which was a decent turboprop for its era.
But yeah, they are behind right now. I'm wondering if one motivation for Mitsubishi shuttering the SpaceJet was because they want more engineers working on its MIC programs. The SpaceJet didn't die because technical challenges.
>indigenous
Use native. Indigenous is for living things.
the term is commonly used in aircraft parlance
Literally everyone is skipping the current generation because if you are going for 5th gen, you are spending billions upon billions on a jet that is going to be outdated in 15 years when it enters service because FGAD, FCAS, GCAP and others are coming few years after that.
Also, at the end of the day, you shoot down jets with missiles, not with jets.
Japan does not do air stuff, even their innovative Air Taxi company is buying all of their aircrafts from a South Korean company Plana
Don't you have some jap customer your family lined up to abuse you?
Get back to work gay.
Lol you don't understand, it was us japs that were serving foreign customers, almost none of the customers were japanese, they were exclusively foreigners
Most japanese young men, close to 50%, have experience as a rent boy, basically a submissive male prostitute to foreign gay men looking for hole
You mother has had over 9000 experiences whoring herself out for free
Just because your jap family rented you out for a pittance doesn't mean that's the norm there, you're just a dumb gay.
The fact it happened to you when you were an adult is even more hilarious.
Its a societal problem that most japanese men have had their holes wrecked by foreign gay men
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2127079/boys-sale-dark-world-japans-gay-prostitution
>janny's
like pottery
Of course, it's the janny's bar.
Do they do it for free, though?
Gay sex is legal in the USA though, why travel abroad to have gay sex, when gay Americans can fuck each other?
Because Americans don't want to date each other.
chick has pretty big tits for a japanese girl, she's kinda thicc too, i like havin a little cake on a girl like that
wood berry 10/10
Friend, it's Kaho Shibuya.
>Kaho Shibuya
>2016
Oh nonononono! Not like this yellow fever bros
These will be all over Japan in the next few years
>those props
wat
That looks like shit, German and Israeli ones are much better
>AIR TAXI
So a helicopter?
I mean sure, why not. Entire generation skips happen in tech and software all the time.
Why do you think the us stopped building F-22s?
Because SU22's were dabbing on them hard.
Wrong board, kid.
And the controversial Russian missile doctrine was proven when Ukraine sunk the Moskva.
they're skipping the previous gen because they already missed the boat. They're moving on because if they developed a 5th gen it would be fielded years after NGAD is already in service. Anyway, given the fact that 6th gen is mostly about networking rather than properties that would create a major physical divergence from 5th gen airframes, a new 5th gen would have to be an intentionally gimped aircraft
Konichiwa
It's my guilty pleasure as an aerospace engineer to watch these threads in the same way someone might watch a bunch of monkeys try to figure out a mechanical pen.
My current highlight of the week is someone calling the tempest a f22 ripoff. Will someone dumber appear in this thread? Stay tuned!
The F22 is a F117 ripoff.
>It's my guilty pleasure as an aerospace engineer
no you are just bored waiting for the fifth ceritificate to be signed after completing your day of hard work. Which consisted of tightening a bolt to torque values which are classified as top secret
>Japan are skipping previous gen to build the latest one
They claim they are going straight to gen 6, but what they will really design and build will just be a gen 5. They don't even know what gen 6 is. The U.S. sets the bar in this regard.
Japan are getting the brits to do it for them
>pilot cabin
When are we discarding this weakness?
Do you mean making it unmanned?
Only after AI is much better and has had decades of testing to prove it can be trusted with a fighter jet. Long distance remote control is too laggy for a fighter.
Unmanned doesn't necessarily mean AI controlled, it could be remote. Which apparently is one of the specifications for GCAP and some limited AI integration in emergency situations should the pilot be incapacitated.
Too vulnerable to jamming and lag. The further the controller is the worse jamming vulnerability and lag get. Relays might help with jamming but they increase lag and orbital satellites already have problems being thousands of km away with limited power sources.
A few are. The UK, Italy and Japan (possibly Sweden too?) are making GCAP. Germany, France and Spain are making FCAS.
That already amounts to a significant number of the largest economic powers. It remains to be seen whether these projects will succeed though.
>Germany, France and Spain are making FCAS.
That sounds the most nightmarish combination of countries possible for something like this. By the time they finish ironing out the details on costs and responsibilities 7th gen will have come and gone
All the gen6 capable countries outside of the US and China are already in either GCAP or FCAS.
FCAS will never be made, france will do a mirage on it like last time and germany will buy gcas in 2045
>gcas
?
GCAP
Doubt the GCAP will ever exist due to lack of chemical industry that made the Typhoon what it is.
>lack of chemical industry that made the Typhoon
nta, but what does this mean?
Where do you think the Typhoon’s composites etc came from?
No idea, that's why i'm asking you.
Those timelines are musk tier ambitious unless it's only the air frame without any of the futuristic shit.
>skipping
I mean they had something that qualified as 5th gen but didn't bother pursuing it.
>qualified as 5th gen
Making a non VLO airframe without any of the 5th gen software that actually makes something a 5th gen doesn't mean you have a 5th gen. It didn't even have a radar.
Because it was built at like 1/5th or 1/3rd scale compared to the "real" plane they want (F-X/GCAP). They've got the J/APG-2 in the F-2 there was just no real point making a small version for the X-2 prototype and if they ever did decide to put it into production making a smaller radar unit wouldn't have been a daunting task.
What 5th gen software?
It had the hardware for sure (Aesa radar, composites, full digital FBW).
What is this 5th gen "software" you're on about?
>a toy plane with non-retractable landing gear is totally japan's indigenous f-22
Weebshit, please
based retard
?t=27
As crazy as it sounds, the reality is that chinese jets actually look good compared to japanese planes, the quality, capabilities and technology differences are massive and this is despite chinese planes as the definition of flying garbage no better than russian crap
as crazy as this sounds, you just sound like the moronshill or some chink shill and eitherway your opinion is invalid.
This you weeb? You have no idea how bad you make japan look on /k
Like pottery, love to be proven right.
You weebs are considered as bizarre as a bearded chud, most japanese like normies but fucking hate weebs even more than blacks and browns migrants
Don't you have a customer to go "service"?
good bait
That is the most hilariously retarded statement. Japanese see any Otaku forgein or not as a weird fascination at best and a mild discomfort at worst. They absolutely hate any black or brown people
The F-2 camo is so sex
Do weebs really think this is 5th gen? Looks like a kit plane that somebody slapped together in their backyard shed
>Japan are skipping previous gen to build the latest one
since when 6th gen is the latest one?
who has a 6th gen out?
No country has 6th gen operational, only the US has a true 5th gen fighter, otherwise the rafale, eurofighter and the kf21 are the only true 4.5 gen fighters, no country can develop a proper 5th gen without direct US support, at least for the next few decades and by that time the US will be at 7th or 8th gen
China and Russia have both made 5th gen fighters, though Russia can barely make them and can't feasibly put them into real production, while China has reliability problems with their engines and limited stealth capabilities compared to the F-35/F-22, but they're still 5th gen, and china has been working on the engine problem and even if they're not quite there today, they're at most a few more years away from at least 1990's era US engines (read F-22).
Japan has flown a low RCS airframe without an internal weapons bay or radar, but scaled up they could at least create a 5th gen airframe, and the XF9 might not be ready for flight yet, but it could likely be made ready in a few years if you put enough money and effort into it. So japan has all of the pieces to make a 5th gen if they REALLY wanted to, instead they're focusing effort on the sensors/networking/accompanying systems needed for a 6th gen fighter (GCAP).
UK worked on JSF and has decent experience with 4th gen and 4.5th gen fighter tech as well. They bought F-35s and are hoping GCAP will allow them to skip 5th gen and go straight to 6th gen for their domestic fighters. It's ambitious but with japanese support (and the US likely willing to help in the background) GCAP should be at LEAST 5.5th gen if not 6th gen.
>China and Russia have both made 5th gen fighters
Kek
>China has reliability problems with their engines and limited stealth capabilities compared to the F-35/F-22
muh canard again?
That coupled with less capable radar absorbing materials on the airframe.
Ok, another canard = non-stealth ignorant retard
NTA
Why the seethe?
I never said it's not stealth you seething chink, I said it's not AS stealthy as F-22/F-35, and PART of that is the fucking canards. It's still a fairly stealthy plane considering it has those canards, but you can't deny that they detract from the overall stealth profile and if you say otherwise you're NOTHING but a chink shill.
No canardsdoesn'taffectstealthif it'sdesignedfor it. Besides the F-22 has massive diverters in front that affects stealth way more than J20's canards
>China and Russia have both made 5th gen fighters
Chinese at least looks like one, russians are just pathetic lol
>only the US has a true 5th gen fighter,
there isnt a true 5th gen neither usa has if they ever decide that bacn should be nuked and start developing a true asynchronous tld then we can talk
looks rad can't wait to fly it in next ace combat
Because the age of manned air attack craft is over much like the age of the tank was over near the end of the last century.
The smart countries right now should be investing in producing drones and AI chips.
Sounds like cope bro
>thread about 6th gen fighters
>insecure moron starts shilling his 4.5 gen stealth fighter cosplay
All you have to do is mention Japan and he shows up like clockwork lmao
We all know who you are see -<
How good are the j20s materials? Aren't they working off chemistry from that f-117 Serbia downed?
Yes but does it transform into a mech?
>Japan are skipping previous gen to build the latest one
BAE are lead design authority on the airframe. Japan will be doing some electronics (as will Italy) and assisting on the engines with Rolls Royce. MBDA providing weapons.
MBDA and Mitsu have already been working together for years on JNAAM.
They have, but that program has now concluded, Japan hasn't bought their meteor variant yet, (they might in the future), but for no it's in limbo.
Not concluded yet AFAIK. It should be finished next year.
>The project is expected to finish trial production of the prototype during the current fiscal year 2022 and scheduled to conclude by the end of fiscal year 2023, which is March 2024 in Japan, according to the official.
>are they stupid?
No, They're poor
Unrelated, but I heavily suspect that America's sixth gen fighters (plural) is going to turn into America's sixth gen fighter (singular). Principally because there doesn't really exist a scenario wherein the Navy's list of demands is drastically different from the Air Force's. In fact, I would go so far as to bet that the exact same companies submit the exact same (or virtually the same) vehicles for consideration to both programs. Further, this allows for more money to be routed to the program, further entrenches it politically, and ultimately makes killing or curbing said program all the more difficult. The advantage behind this, of course, is that the more money that goes into R&D and then construction, the cheaper the end product will end up being. You also protect the program from being cut off at some small figure. There exists no situation in which the Air Force and the Navy would only want a few hundred units. That's not tenable. However, if these are separate programs then politics can get involved and force caps by killing funding since there isn't a unified base. The NGAD isn't here to just replace the F-22, it's here to replace the F-22 and the bulk of the F-15 fleet in concert with it and the F-35 because the F-15EX is sort of pointless when you work out the math and it was always a stopgap in the first place. The Navy's version is here to replace the F-18, another vehicle with a truly massive fleet. Consequently, you are looking a program where you need at least a thousand vehicles. Not a few hundred, but there exists several situations in which a few hundred could be the ultimate outcome if the Navy and the Air Force aren't careful.
>Principally because there doesn't really exist a scenario wherein the Navy's list of demands is drastically different from the Air Force's
lol fuckin moron, how about being able to take off and land from a fucking carrier?
That's a MASSIVE change that necessitates dedicated design elements, or big performance concessions made to the USAF model to make it work with both.
Not to mention, USAF NGAD is rumored to be massive, no way in fuck it could be carrier launched.
Have you also taken a look at the list of demands for the F/A-XX? It's basically the same as that of the NGAD. I don't know what to tell you, but the Navy isn't magically going to encounter some proposal that the Air Force is precluded from, for some bizarre reason.
Yes, and one of the requirements is carrier launch and landing, and no matter what OTHER requirements they have that may match the USAF needs/requirements, you're never going to get a joint fighter again. At least not in the next 25+ years.
Hell, the USN in 2023 only has 30-40 F-35C's delivered because it has taken SOOOOOO long to develop compared to the the F-35A, and the F-35B had a ton of export customers, so the carrier launched F-35C has barely gotten any production quantity at all.
The USN saw the bullshit that delayed the F-35C and have no interest in seeing that repeated with NGAD, they're two distinct programs for a reason. They may use similar drone wingman and other elements, but the two principal manned aircraft USAF NGAD and USN NGAD F/A-XX will not be based on the same plane.
That's awesome and sleek
Japan got awesome style
Sorry, looks like I missed another
> Screenshot 2023-05-18 at 11.40.36 AM.png
chud, you are a weeb that is considered disgusting to any real japanese, go kys in private please
lol whatever you say retard, I hope you get pimped out again by your nordic family next.
Retard my white side of family is about as boring as apple pie, it was my japanese side that introduced me into that degeneracy and then pressured me to keep doing it to pay for rent/food/etc until I saved up enough and had the balls to move back to the US
No shit retard, i'm saying I hope they turn on you next, because you clearly deserve it at this point.
The fact you equate getting pimped out with PROOF the Japanese a whole a militarily worse than Turkey and south Korea is just fucking insane "logic" it makes zero sense, yes what your family did to you is shitty, yes it sucks, yes you should feel SOME level of distrust/hatred for these people. But taking that and just going full retard against Japanese military capability is just bat shit insane and something you could ONLY find on PrepHole.
I seriously hope you can either get over yourself, or just have a nice day and save us the trouble of sifting through your bullshit.
You're almost certainly the most prolific single poster in ANY japan thread made on this board over at leas the last 12 months, probably longer.
Retard, you are the one trying to conflate the level of military capabilities with agendas
There is not a single reputable military expert that thinks Japan is close to South Korea, and certainlly not within the US MIC or DOD, Turkey is massively underrated and their ground forces would steamroll Japan with no effort, their air and naval capabilities are growing rapidly as well so its not clear which is actually the better combined arms at this point, but the real kicker is that Japan is about as anti-military as it gets from a cultural perspective, they can't even recruit anywhere near their skeleton forces let alone expansion and the government is running into massive resistance from their corporation to include Mitsubishi, any increase in budget will be to simply buy more US weapons like Saudi Arabia, with crap human capital quality
You've clearly never actually been to asia or spent any time in the various countries, the typical south korean absolutely mogs the typical japanese, even the typical mainland chinese mog the typical japanese at this point, most japanese look like lighter skinned philipinos or southeast asians in terms of size/frame/demeanor etc.
is not a single reputable military expert that thinks Japan is close to South Korea
And your source for this is "trust me bro" just like when you claim the F-2 is worse than even baseline F-16s, your source is "dude, just trust me".
The fact you think you're some expert on military tech is even more hilarious, you were probably doing more convincing work as a whore than you do as a geopolitical military analyst.
> The United States and South Korea "field the most capable and the most disciplined ready combined force anywhere on the planet," the general said.
How about this guy posted on the DOD website? Anybody in MIC or DOD knows this, but you are a chud weeb in an echo chamber isolated from the real world so have no perception that the US and ROK exercises together more than the US and rest of world COMBINED
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/1856500/rigorous-training-high-readiness-continue-in-korea-general-says/
The biggest part that you as a chud weeb don't get is that the US military is a military steeped in tradition, the tradition being partially defined by killing millions of nips and krauts, all of our successes permeates everything throughout our fundamental military system
And as far as South Korea, they are the ONLY nation that has fought on the US side in EVERY war post-WW2, the US has NEVER fought a war against ROK and has ALWAYS been blood brother combat allies, in contrast the Japanese are a conquered + nuked nation that needs to be kept on a leash, they have a certain bandwidth to operate nominally independently but step out of line and we have to beat them down again the latest being the Plaza Accord, today China is our greatest adversary but for most of US history Japan has been the bad guys and are allies so long as they don't get uppity, again in contrast the US literally built ROK to be the western foothold in that part of the world and why they are really the only truly westernized nation without customs and traditions like Japan where most women have some experience as prostitutes/sex industry and many of the men as well, they are a non-Judeo-Christian nation and believe that degeneracy is simply normal behavior and why they will never truly fit in with the west
Also why they appeal so much to weebs, incels, trannies and homosexuals, all outcasts that oppose western cultural norms
Nope chud, not me, do you see imaginary anti-jap conspiracy people in the room with you now, this is my first post itt ->
> F2 = take a perfectly fine F16 and make it worse while spending $50+ million in modifications per unit to provide wages for Mitsubishi workers
Sadly the japanese make the chinese, russians and indians look competent at least as far as in the air, this kind of stuff doesn't even happen with thirdies
But this is obviously you ->
This you weeb? You have no idea how bad you make japan look on /k
Lmfao
Because aeroengineering is expensive as fuck, and whatever good talent there is, it's already working for whomever have contracts with the US govenrment. And I bet you japanese enterprises will sell it to the US or sign treaties to keep production for self-defense applications and never to become a threat to american air dominance
Nice. moronshill is the least subtle gay on the board and yet he samefags constantly to try and push a narrative. I don't know how Japan buckbroke him so hard but if a thread mentions the nips, he comes along screeching and crying without fail.
Holy fuck you are obnoxious. KYS moronshill
Be honest, which of these are you:
Weeb
Incel
chud
Homosexual
There is no way you are not at least 3 of the above the way you communicate makes it quite obvious
None, I just like planes and you're pissing me off with your shitty moronshilling that derails threads. Now fuck off and preferably KYS
just adding two more to the list
> Screenshot 2023-05-18 at 12.49.26 PM.png
> Screenshot 2023-05-18 at 12.53.05 PM.png
Japan very high IQ. Doesn't even a scared of advance process
Non planefag here. What will be the hallmarks of a VI gen fighter? Are there some standard set of criteria that would make them considered gen VI?
Drone wingmen seems to be the big one.
Being part of a wider system of systems networked together including drone wingmen or similar concepts. On top of existing 5th gen requirements.
Existing 5th gen stealth shit + Internet of Things (drone wingmen)
>country that can't field 5th gen went to a country that was a partner of a 5th gen to copy their homework
weebs will defend anything. ywnbaw
literally the tempest's only hope is if the US never makes an export version of NGAD. If they do, then expect precisely 0 sales
>only hope is if the US never makes an export version of NGAD.
US basically already confirmed they won't export NGAD, at most they'll give technical assistance to ally nations on their own 6th gen programs.
Also Japan made the RAM used by the F-22 in the 90s, then had the X-2 with smaller RCS than anything the UK has ever produced and flown. Seems to me the UK is getting free radar absorbing materials science from Japan that they literally couldn't make themselves even if they wanted to.
dumbfucks, stop this F-22 cope. F-35 is being exported and selling like hotcakes.
you think the US will hand over the 6th gen market to bongs and japs on a silver platter? if you're going to cope and shill, at least make it believable.
As it is, an F-35 with drone capabilities would mog the tempest any day of the week. Thinking that the tempest would be even close to the NGAD is a diagnosis for severe brain damage.
>you think the US will hand over the 6th gen market to bongs and japs on a silver platter?
Yes? The US barely has the capacity to produce F-35s and they'll be producing then at full rate production speed for at LEAST the next 15-20 years just based on CURRENT F-35 orders. Where the fuck is the US going to get the production capacity for 100-200 B-21s, 100-200 NGADs, and another 100-200 NGAD(F/A-XX) all within the next 15 years?
And you STILL think they'll be able to open up an export market on top of that?
You're delusional. Are you the moronshill that has decided Tempest/GCAP will suck because you just hate Japan so much?
Lockheed is making bank off the F-35 and you think that two countries that can't develop a 5th gen can field a 6th gen? The US defense budget and industrial output dwarfs uk and japan put together and you think the latter will somehow have better production?
And now you're trying to scream moronshill because you have literally nothing else. Not one fucking mention of south korea and you scream moronshill regardless. You sound fucking desperate.
I scream moronshill because your posts are unmistakable.
Also the US has already CONFIRMED NGAD isn't being exported.
Stop being a retard.
NGAD isn't being exported. that's exactly why the UK spotted a gap in the market in the 2030's when all the F16/18/15 typhoons gripens and rafales will need to be replaced.
The F35 serves a completely different role to the F22, as an air superiority fighter. There's a reason the US kept that capability advantage over the rest of the world despite so much pressure to export.
>as it is this aircraft with added imaginary capabilities would mog this aircraft which is still in the design phase
So we've completely diverged from reality then? You're just coping at this point it's bizarre.
>Thinking that the tempest would be even close to the NGAD
It most likely won't be, and it doesn't even need to be. Because NGAD will never be exported. With 6th gen programs being so expensive and time consuming most nations aren't going to bother even trying to make their own, so Tempest will be the default option (assuming FCAS doesn't succeed or is too late to the party, but I hope otherwise).
I don't get what bothers you so much that you're this emotionally invested. More 6th gen programs are good and more domestic capabilities are good.
>I don't get what bothers you so much that you're this emotionally invested.
Because Japan joined Tempest.
That's it. He hates Japan because his Japanese family pimped him out, so now how mission is to shit post against Japan on PrepHole every single day.
>now how mission
His
you people really have nothing else but to scream moronshill, huh. It's so obvious that every time your precious little japan gets insulted even in the slightest, you go off on a rant about morons and how they're definitely not on your mind 24/7.
yeah, it's pathetic, really.
and I supposed now you'll call me a moronshill as well. but how are you people so obsessed with Korea and you don't know that Koreans have their own version of PrepHole and so they don't come here. Every time you screech "moronshill" it's almost guaranteed never an actual Korean you're talking to.
So then give a valid explanation for your clearly deranged view points.
You're contradicting known fact about NGAD not getting exported and using bullshit reasoning for why Japan couldn't possibly provide anything of value to a 6th gen project. You're so transparent it's honestly sad to watch this level of mental illness run rampant.
>shows up like clockwork to any thread even tangentially related to Japan
>seethes like a rabid animal plainly denying reality if something suggests Japan has any capabilities (or reflects Japan in a positive light)
>props Korea up without fail with the same tired talking points, gets btfo'd every thread, simply repeats the process next time as if it never happened
>labels anyone who explains how and why he's wrong as weebs/trannies etc, can't in real terms explain why they're incorrect
>despite using the same screenshots, with the same filenames, the same talking points and the same posting style, insists he's actually a completely different poster every time
To be so uniquely retarded you get spotted the moment you start posting on fucking PrepHole of all places should really be a wake up call mate.
this literally describes you to a t
>screech "moronshill" every time anyone mentions Korea
>screech "moronshill" every time anyone says anything slightly negative about japan
literally everyone knows that you have been seething 24/7 for an entire year about Korea. this entire board knows that you're the one who is always there screaming "moronshill" to desperately shut down any discussion about Korea because SK has had a string of successes since last year. you're a gay who thinks that silence means you "won" when in actuality, nobody wants to deal with you because the second they do, you immediately scream "moronshill" and the cycle continues.
>inb4 "moronshill" yet again followed by an /int/ meme
>sages his post so the thread slides faster
why do you ALWAYS do that when you get BTFO in these threads? You still reply and act like you've won, but you sage post an hour+ later and claim to have won even though this thread is now on the 7th page you had to "win" the argument before it slid into the archive
You're disgusting, and yes, a moronshill.
>he thinks it's only one poster
>he couldn't refute a single thing that was said, only scream "no u!"
You're a fucking embarrassment, one of the worst posters on PrepHole by miles.
spamming is a bannable offense.
not to mention that you're the one admitting that you're crawling through every thread mentioning japan to run defense because you're a lifeless weeb chud. How else would you know someone else's posts if you're not also there, spamming as you are now.
we all know you're desperate to shut down any discussion that concerns Korea because SK MIC is so successful right now. You have to devolve everything into a shit flinging contest because even tranime can't dull the pain.
f2 is irrelevant to the point of the japs fully stopping all efforts years ago. the jap's only hope for aerospace is a fucking multinational weapons development, something that is guaranteed to be constantly delayed and over-budget.
and even in the off chance that it is on time, that still leaves decades of no tempest while the FA-50 gets contracts left and right, making you cry harder than BTS does.
so as always: cope, seethe, and dilate.
>the schizo chud moronshill still continues futile effort after all this
lmao
>literally the tempest's only hope is if the US never makes an export version of NGAD
Friendly reminder that twice congress voted to restrict the UK's access to the source code and sensitive materiel of F-35, and twice the UK threatened to withdraw out work from the program and our other 5tn gen tech on other US projects, and twice we (the UK) were given special permissions do proceed as we saw fit.
The UK is the only place outside of the US that can generate the daily use codes for F-35 and the only place outside of the US that can open and service the black boxed tech that fills F-35.
>tempest's only hope is if the US never makes an export version of NGAD
It's precisely because the US will never export their 6th gen programs that other countries are scrambling to build their own. Burgers wouldn't even export the F22, if you think they'll export this you're huffing some strong stuff.
>then expect precisely 0 sales
This is offset by the fact every country involved is obliged to buy so many. Besides with NGAD exports being a never-ever and FCAS drowning in French ego and German bureaucracy, what options do other countries have? It's Tempest or nothing.
Wow, this is going to be just like the Macross Plus OVA.
>like clockwork
be honest, how long have you been refreshing this thread? your response is the biggest self-btfo I could have hoped for.
you have literally admitted to everything I've said and you've killed your own jap shilling thread.
mind so broken by anime that you'll be calling lockheed a moronshill next.
It's just a tab open in my web browser my dude, it shows a little number on the tab when a new post is made.
You do know threads auto-refresh when left open if you're on the desktop and use PrepHole properly....right?
>i-i-i wasn't refreshing all this time, i was just looking at the tab nonstop instead!!1!
that the best you got?
why waste your life making these shit threads? they all end up with you screaming "moronshill" for the millionth time until people get sick of your shit.
I fully expect bait next. Probably something like "is the KF-21 lItErAllY the F-35 kiLLer?!?"
everyone on PrepHole has seen your song and dance before.
I have dozens of tabs open, does it really bother you THAT much that I would happen to notice your shill thread got a post, THEN I noticed even though it got a post, it was still on page 7 (meaning you saged your post).
Just stay BTFO you dumb gay. You're the one making a reply 3 hours later on page 7 and then specifically saging to make sure it stayed on page 7 so you could "win" your argument (which wasn't even with me anyway, I'm not the person you were replying to, I just like calling you out for this shit).
Again, whatever helps you cope but anyone who is on PrepHole regularly sees your shit and can recognize your posts almost instantly.
Once again instant reply. Fucking obsessed, I'm telling you.
Not the same guy as whoever you think you were talked to "3 hours before". Try again.
Of course you pretend like it's just one person because you grasp as straws. The projection is obvious when you constantly remind people that you're not one person. It's really blatant as fuck.
But let's review
>you admit to being on Korea and japan threads all the time to the point of schizo analyzing behavioral patterns
>you admit to being on this thread for hours, scouring through the comments for anything that mentions Korea so you can scream shill
seriously, even if we assume for one second that what you say is true, then what you say literally also applies to you.
>can recognize your posts almost instantly
no doubt it is your fucking wallpaper. that's why you spend all your time in every single bit of PrepHole content that mentions Korea just so you can scream "moronshill". your mask has cracked to the point that you've basically just confessed that this is the case.
Current gen aircraft (F35/22 equivalents) are, to use the technical term, REALLY fucking expensive. Next gen aircraft are going to be even more expensive than that. If you started trying to make a new current gen aircraft you'd spend a retarded amount of money, and the project would probably be outdated by the time you can field them in any significant numbers. Given that you might as well pony up a little more cash than that and go for the next step up.
They build the gen5 technology demonstrator, didn't they?
they probably assumed the US will not export the NGAD
Because they US has said as such publicly, and likely privately to their allies.
They learned from F-22 export ban.
Also it's kinda interesting that they reached a similar conclusion.
>The F-X is said to be bigger than the F-22, which has earned it the nickname "Godzilla" from Bradley Perrett at Aviation Week. The large size indicates the MoD desires the aircraft to possess very long range and large payload capacity. Technologies tested in the X-2 technology demonstrator will likely be incorporated into the F-X fighter.[51] Defense Minister Taro Kono has stated that the F-X will possess strong network capabilities and will carry more missiles than the F-35.[52]
To be fair it'd be retarded to assume NGAD will be exported. Better to build your own and be wrong than gamble on an export that may never happen, and be left without.
Well with 5th gen the F-35 was always touted as an export-specific fighter. But with 6th gen, at least currently, there is no US export 6th gen currently being envisioned as far as we know.
So skipping 5th gen isn't really a shock for most of the western world when they can just buy F-35 for relatively cheap.
With 6th gen however there aren't even backroom classified talks going on about a US 6th gen export fighter, like the F-35 had international involvement from VERY early both NGAD fighters don't have that.
I wouldn't be shocked if the US even explicitly stated to allies to get their own 6th gens if they want them.
If that's even somewhat accurate to what the ngad looks like it's nice to see my boy the F-16XL returning from the grave. Seeing as how the US seems to have abandoned delta wings in principle since the 60s I wonder what changed.
You need to have like 90 IQ to think that meme nations like the UK and Japan which were incapable of producing a 5th gen will magically shit out a 6th gen.
It’s just a way to get tax money for vaporware
You have a single digit IQ judging by the retarded post
it's better if you just don't feed him.
Are you just pretending to be mentally ill, or do you actually think the UK is making a 6th gen fighter?
Not just the UK, but Italy and Japan too. Between them they more than have the capabilities and the budget necessary to do so.
Why are you so emotionally invested in this?
It stems from his hatred of japan, but he clearly has other issues too.
If you say Kenya can’t make a 6th gen fighter then it’s because you’re simply anti-Kenyan
He has a history of posting against japan and has professed it stems from his Japanese family pimping him out while he lived in japan. Even if it is just a LARP, I'll still call him anti-japanese because he ALWAYS posts in any thread that mentions japan, even tangentially.
>Between them they have the capabilities and budget to make a Gen 6
What sort of stealth craft have they made
What sort of drones have they made
What sort of integration stuff have they made to allow for seamless transfer of data from Drone to plane and vice versa
The materials science, engine tech, electronics, sensors and other necessary expertise all exist within the companies contracted to work on GCAP. You're not going to convince 3 separate nations, none of which are particularly closely aligned to work on a project as expensive and long term as this if the basic building blocks necessary were absent. Do you think these decisions are made on a whim and that you, a seething anti-nip shitposter on PrepHole knows any better than everyone involved in the decision making process thus far? Give me a break, at least try to lend your shitposting some credibility.
What i think is that 'Gen 6' is corporate buzzwords that mean whatever the country thinks they mean. The Euro program and the Japan/Italy/UK program are likely going to be maybe on par with the F-35 ergo solidly Gen 5 rather than Gen 6. The issue is that both programs (the Euro one and the Uk/Japan/Italian program) are going to be way more expensive than the F-35 on a per unit basis which will make countries hesitant to buy in.
They wont have any other choice, they will be the only thing on the market that isn't F-35.
Remember, GCAP is likely going to be a fairly sizeable 2-engined monster, this is no F-35. It will have a place on the market. In a market where it's the only option the price per unit WILL come down with more orders which WILL come because there is no other option.
Is it? It's supposed to be replacing the Typhoon and F-2 which are both single engine.
I've also got to wonder what other markets they might be aiming to sell to? Most First world nations are already buying into the F-35, France, Sweden and Spain are the only ones not in yet and Spain is going to want something to replace their harriers which the F-35B is the only option they'll have for at least the next decade.
>Is it? It's supposed to be replacing the Typhoon and F-2 which are both single engine.
have you seen ANYTHING about GCAP...?
I mean, it's pretty well established it's 2 engined, both F-X and Tempest were 2-engine designs, and GCAP (the joining of the two programs) will also continue to be 2 engined.
?t=52
mostly full 360 view in 4k from this video if anyone wants a closer look at the model.
neat
They stole that from Airbus
Who stole what?
Japan introduced that in 2010 in their 6th generation concept i3 Fighter (called next generation counter-stealth fighter back then) on which the F-X is based, and they've been developing it ever since.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I3_fighter
>Typhoon and F-2 which are both single engine.
Just fucking stop posting
I don't get why you seem to think NGAD, FCAS and GCAP are trying to fulfil the same role as the F35. The F35 is a multi role combat aircraft, each of the aforementioned projects are explicitly air superiority fighters. Very different role, very different requirements. They're not replacing the F35 or even competing with it.
It's more a matter of what countries are willing to afford, to the US getting enough of the top of the line jets to actually matter in a war is slightly more than a rounding error, to other countries? A squadron is going to be ruinous. Especially once you factor in the wingman drones that likely aren't going to be included in the base price.
There's plenty of countries who'd be able to afford them but wouldn't necessarily be able to start their own 6th gen programs. It fills a capability gap that nothing else does on the market, GCAP is a good investment for the countries involved and it'll be a good investment for the countries that need or want a 6th gen air superiority fighter. What other options do they have?
Wait for glorious Korean KF-21 to develop into a 6th or 7th gen.
That's what I don't get about it. Maybe in another 10 years the KF-21 will pass as 5th gen, but by then GCAP and NGAD are on track to be adopted. Who's it for?
KF-21? It's for Korea and maybe thirdies who can't afford real western jets but still have enough money to buy some decent jets. Though the KF-21 uses enough western components I doubt the west will allow Korea to sell to whoever they want.
This may or may not be the case but other than the f22 and f35 its the most advanced fighter in the world and will be so for decades, nothing else comes close
KF-21 is likely already surpassed by the J-31/J-20 and even by Block 3 in the early to mid 2030s, the KF-21 will only be on par with the J-31/J-20.
This isn't even mentioning GCAP which will almost certainly put the KF-21 to shame.
> picrel re j31/j20 and anything else out of china
Weapons development is all about expertise and scale, for fighters/multirole jets only LM and now KAI have this capability at scale, even Boeing is largely outdated at this point on the latest fighter jet technologies, and guess what? LM and KAI collaborate closely together, anything new that comes out will come from these companies, that is why money is not enough to develop cutting edge fighter technology, a country like pakistan or brazil could spend a trillion dollars and still struggle to develop an f16 at 1980s level, france is probably the next country in line but their insistence on controlling everything holds them back from being at the us or even rok levels who are masters of collaboration, uk, germany, japan, italy, spain...see picrel again
>KAI
What are you even on moronshill?
KAI/Korea is by no means advanced, all they do is catch-up relying on tech transfer. Name fighter or aerospace technology pioneered by KAI/Korea, you literally can't. Korea couldn't even develop a jet trainer on its own in the 90s, thus T-50 was developed with the help of LM, and the KF-21 (the FIRST national fighter still in development) is a 4.5th generation fighter, which was done by US, UK, France, Germany, Japan, and others in the 80-90s.
> UK, France, Germany, Japan kek
Maybe France, but UK, Germany and Japan are thirdie tier as far as aerospace, after France is probably the UK because they are decent at niche products but crap at leading a fighter jet program, Germany and Japan have 1980s technology at best and absolutely no program of any substance that is even at 3rd gen today
The current aerospace environment is LM then KAI as far as technologies, LM and KAI are already effectively partnered, Airbus whoring themselves out like crazy trying to latch onto KAI
The ONLY countries that are actively developing 5th gen and with active r&d for 6th gen are the US and South Korea, France is stuck at 4.5 gen with the rafale which is specifically designed for third world nations, LM and KAI are the the only NATO tier fighter jet producers
>LM and KAI are the the only NATO tier fighter jet producers
Honestly if you said this without any hint or irony, just lol.
You're so far gone past reality I'm not sure where you are anymore.
>LM and KAI are the the only NATO tier fighter jet producers
Not a fighter jet, but NG's B-21 is a marvel of engineering, and NG has had the capability to make 5th gen fighters for 3 decades
>Japan makes the 4.5th gen F-2 with Lockheed help in the 1990s and early 2000s
>wow japan just steals US tech and claims it as their own
>Korea makes the 4.5th gen KF-21 with Lockheed help in the 2020s
>wow korea and KAI are the only capable nation/company outside of the US that can make 5th generation fighters (even though the KF-21 is a 4.5th gen and will be until at least the early 2030s).
wewlad, moronshill you really can't see the irony here?
Of all the jets to shill you pick the f2 which is renown as garbage even by the japanese and particularly their air force, japan is not even 3rd gen let alone anything more, the f2 is an f16 with modifications that made it worse, japan is below turkey in terms of aerospace rep in mic sector, rok on the other hand is considered only behind the us and along with the us are the only countries with active 6th gen r&d ongoing, next is france and if maybe china russia if you believe their propaganda that has never been proven to be true, there are at least 30 countries ahead of japan in fighter jet technology, whereas us is 1 and rok is 2, france is 3 but the gap between 2 and 3 is enormous, japan is somewhere between 30-50 realistically
Your posts are full of bullshit and never sourced, go have a nice day moron.
>rok on the other hand is considered only behind the us
Which is why despite having their hand held by the most advanced aerospace company in the world they can't even build a 5th gen aircraft? And by the time they even adopt it these countries that are apparently so far behind them will be debuting their 6th gen aircraft? You're a fucking joke lmao, the only reason you're shitting this thread up so hard is you're mindbroken Japan wasn't interested in the shitty deal ROK lapped up. And that Japan will have a 6th gen aircraft long before Korea can even consider building one.
But keep playing catch up moronshill, keep imitating your betters.
KAI are having their hands held by the leading aerospace company in the world and they STILL can't produce a 5th gen fighter. SK can't build a 6th gen fighter, they're not even trying to because they know they can't. That's why you're shitting this thread up so hard. You're upset that Japan 1. didn't want the deal the Koreans so readily leaped for and 2. will have a 6th gen fighter jet before Korea even starts building their own (if they even bother trying).
>for decades
10 years at best.
Yes but the point you are neglecting is that KAI is in active development of more advanced capabilities just like LM is as well, these companies never stand still and have massive scale allocated to r&d that are exponentially accumulating in knowledge, the other efforts are essentially standing starts that will take decades to get to today's levels, at least the uk/germany/italy/spain and france have some experience in developing the typhoon and rafale, but japan figured out they are too far behind and since no US company will partner with them they are latching onto the UK playing the role of additional capital source
>since no US company will partner with them
They got offers from Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to collaborate on the F-X project, that would later be integrated into GCAP alongside Tempest. Japan joined the project for the same reason Italy and the UK did, 6th gen programs are prohibitively expensive and sharing the burden makes achieving them more realistic, plus it also guarantees you're going to order and build so many more of them. The only countries that can realistically afford to go it alone are the US and maybe China. This is why FCAS is also an international conglomerate.
>the point you are neglecting is that KAI is in active development
Oh? Are the Koreans building their own 6th gen aircraft? Do tell.
> Are the Koreans building their own 6th gen aircraft?
Yes, except unlike everybody other than the US, theirs will actually be real
And your source is? They've not announced a 6th gen and since their 5th gen won't be in service until near the end of the decade I seriously doubt that. They have neither the capabilities or the budget, as is evidenced by the fact they're not even attempting to build one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-X#F-X_program_and_international_collaboration
Literally took 2 seconds to find. They were essentially offered the same deal SK got with the KF-21, partnering with Lockheed Martin (or indeed any other of the big US companies) to build a 5th gen stealth fighter. Unlike the Koreans, Japan rejected the deal because it didn't meet their requirements.
>no reply
BTFO. I accept your concession moronshill.
He always does that when confronted with hard facts, just no reply, or if he does reply he just calls you a chud/weeb/etc and doesn't address any of the facts/sources you posted.
> They got offers from Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to collaborate on the F-X project
It must be painful to live in your echo chamber alternate reality
Even if it is 5th gen, it'll still be the only 5th gen air superiority fighter on the market for the west since F-22 still hasn't been exported and isn't in production and likely never will be.
>'Gen 6' is corporate buzzwords that mean whatever the country thinks they mean
6th gen is pretty clearly stated as being a system of systems i.e capable of coordinating drone wingmen. Each project is adding it's own deviations to that of course, GCAP in this case specified a few pie-in-the-sky ideas which will probably be scaled back but time will tell. Either way every 6th gen project announced thus far has stated drone integration to be an integral part of the project.
>The Euro program and the Japan/Italy/UK program are likely going to be maybe on par with the F-35
They're targeting different capabilities entirely. Why would countries that already operate F-35s build aircraft from scratch to do the same thing? You're not thinking logically.
>UK Defense industry: "why yes, we can make you a hyper-advanced UFO wunderwaffe, just give us some money and come back in 15 years, we pinky promise it wont be vaporware ;)"