In a weird turn of events
Italy has sent some military helicopters to somalia
And yes it will be used against Somaliland
Italy sends military helicopters to Somalia
In a weird turn of events
Italy has sent some military helicopters to somalia
And yes it will be used against Somaliland
What are the ideological differences between Somalia and Somaliland anyways?
Afaik Somalia is just a bunch of illiterate pirates, while Somaliland wants to turn their country into something a little more civilized. But Somalia is legally recognized as a country why Somaliland is not.
Why doesn't Somaliland just take power over Somalia and just be a fully recognized Somalia?
Somalia and Somaliland used to be separate entities during the colonial era (Somalia was an Italian colony, Somaliland was British) and before that it was a whole bunch of different sultanates with Somaliland being controlled by people called the Isaaqs. Some time after decolonisation when both regions were merged into a single country Somalia became a military dictatorship and attacked Ethopia to take land historically important for Somalian clans and tribes. Somalia lost and a bunch of tribes started revolting against the regime including the Isaaqs. This eventually prompted a military crackdown which turned into a proper genocide attempt (The Isaaq genocide 1987-1989). This didn't prevent the state from collapsing and the Isaaqs, understandanbly, decided to use this opportunity and secede and got their shit together quick quickly while Somalia degenerated to a bunch of tribal governments trying to manage things for themselves
As you can imagine, Somaliland doesn't want to ever return under Mogadishu's control and have fighting for international or at least regional recognition ever since. Where things get more complicated is the current conflict over Puntland. Historically it was a part of British Somaliland, but it's not dominated by Isaaqs, but by separate tribes which remain loyal to Somalia or at the very least don't want to be ruled by the Isaaqs
Somali anon here. That's a pretty good summary. It's important to note Isaaqs are not alone in their secessionist political beliefs.
Mogadishu is primarily dominated by the Abgaal subclan of Hawiye but they're not in a complete majority thanks to everyone wanting to move to the capital. Metropolitan abgaals thanks to exposure to other clans, being in an urban setting and being from the capital are far more likely to be federalists but there is a portion that wants self rule and doesn't want to be the capital because every other region siphons funds from it
Basically everyone in Somalia believes whatever is in the interests of their clan is the right thing. There is no ideology involved, its purely tribalism. These guys would vote for a war criminal that is proven to be corrupt over a genuine good leader if the former was from their clan. Elections in the 60s were literally just people voting for their tribe and it'll be the same if we somehow got it running again.
When their clan is in power they'll be pro government federalists but when a rival clan is incharge they become dissidents who tease with the idea of secession overnight.
If you know someone's clan you already know practically every political opinion about Somalia they could possess.
Has there ever been a tribal union in somali history? We've seen unions of tribes in ancient europe and the far east. If you're gonna federalize, there really need to be less 'tribes' around.
No. There's been sultanates where a single clan dominated and ruled over other clans that tend to be smaller. I mean there were probably short temporary coalitions during the civil war that I am too tired to remember. The only two I can think of were temporary and only when united against foreign entities, the Adal-Abyssinian war had a coalition of Somali clans that were unified by Ahmed Gurey and the Somalis under Dervish rule against the British/Ethiopians.
Trust me you'd pull your hair out if you had to talk about Somali politics with actual Somalis. These guys would genuinely drink bottles of poison handed out by someone of their own clan over accepting a member of a foreign clan ruling over them. If, and that's a massive if, some gigabrain Somali out there managed to create genuine coalitions between the clans and be seen as the leader they want by clans he's not a part of I'd be amazed. The only real politically hostile clans are the Isaaq/Majerteens in the North right now so he'd somehow have to bring Somaliland back into the fold without military conquest of it. The problem is it'd fall apart the second he's out the picture.
The only real political solution for Somalia is to balkanize it and create an EU/NATO system for decent integration. Every decently sized political block gets autonomy. We use the dollar anyways since out currency is shit, freedom of movement, mutual defense pact, etc. People will be forced to pick candidates from the same clan so it'll stop nattering and so they're forced to look at policy. Over time this Somali Union will predictably have a larger and more bloated bureaucracy which would coincide with more development/integration.
Between a dozen or two states would be perfect. Imagine 20 Somali nations. That'd boost our international political power since we'd make up 20/73 of the African states giving out disproportionate representation in both the UN and AU. However this would require having all the Somali regions free.
What is Turkey doing there? And how are they viewed by the public?
I would really appreciate an answer, because our governement isn't very transparent about these subjects
>What is Turkey doing there?
Humanitarian stuff. Turkey to have influence over Muslim countries again so starting small with Somalia is an easy way in. They've opened hospitals and they have been training the national army here along with some aid. This gives them influence over the government and the rumours going around is Qatar and UAE also want to stretch their wings here.
>And how are they viewed by the public?
I personally see it as some good help that's really tied to their foreign policy goals but the low IQ types (majority) here borderline worship them. Some morons even started naming their kids Erdoğan and Istanbul. If you want an insight to how they are, these guys organised charity money when Turkey had their earthquake which was apparently over a million dollars but they will almost never put the same amount of effort into helping themselves and eachother.
>our governement
Ahh you're Turkish. Well they are giving Somalia drones to shoot alshabaab and there's probably a lot of money lost due to corruption but that's on our end. The only benefit I see in my life are the Turkish Airways flights. Tbh its possible that despite all the charity work, Somalia might be in a deficit to Turkey. We'll never really know since no one is capable of fulfilling basic government duties here.
Are there any other countries than Turkey doing stuff in the region? Also, any opinions on Italy giving helis?
>Somalia
>white, educated, cultured, the heirs to British colonists
>Somaliland
>black, uneducated, impoverished, dependent on foreign aid both in terms of economic aid and military aid
tl;dr it's another Rhodesia and we're all supposed to hate Somalia.
You got 'em mixed up. Somaliland was under British domination and has had something resembling a functioning government (an actual democracy no less). It's Somalia that was ruled by SpaghettiBlack folk where they all get shitfaced on khat, LARP the Golden Age of Piracy, shoot down Black Hawk helicopters, and beat American soldiers to death with the severed arms of their comrades (that literally happened btw)
>shoot down Black Hawk helicopters, and beat American soldiers to death with the severed arms of their comrades
> shoot down Black Hawk helicopters, and beat American soldiers to death with the severed arms of their comrades
holy fricking based
ngl it just makes them sound cooler since we already expected them to be savages. It's like mentioning a pedo-cannibal eats babies with a fork and knife and expecting that to lower anyone's opinion of them.
>well damn now he sounds like he does his shit with some class
Are you stupid anon?
You got the names backwards.
Somaliland is the one that was a British colony, and is the notably more organised of the two.
Are you moronic anon, wrong way around
Somalia is insanely corrupt and Somialand isn't nearly as corrupt and has a handle on its natural resources.
>Somialand isn't nearly as corrupt and has a handle on its natural resources.
shut the frick you moron LOL they are the most corrupt state in Somalia. They are a state in Somalia like all the other states
Seething Somalitard detected.
Black folk helping Black folk, lmfao
you should be fricking murdered
Frick off back to your containment board, child. Adults are talking.
based
jump off a cliff homosexual.
Humanitarian flight. UNHCR refugee prevention services delivery of food and medical aid products
The fact that the separatist region and the main country are both named Somalia probably hurts the separatist cause.
One is a proper land while the other is indecisive of where to eat.
angloids must lose
The Anglo somaliland is winning
Remember when that dumb Meloni b***h seethe on France for being blablabla colonialist towards Africa ?
> seethe on France for being blablabla colonialist towards Africa
Yeah, because the big frog himself was b***hing about Italy not taking migrants while also not taking any and doing a fair amount of shit in Africa. Nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.
Why are we (yes, we) betting on what is not only a losing side, but the side that is morally wrong? Even muh stability excuse doesn't apply, Somalia has failed to provide that for decades now.
Because of the African Union. The US wants to believe that the AU can be built into some kind of EU equivalent over time and thus pretends like what they say actually matters, and none of them have recognized Somaliland as a country. Ethiopia sort of does on an unofficial basis via trade relations and the US technically has a consular office there and has diplomacy and aid with the Somaliland government but nobody has the balls to actually ink any sort of official recognition. Probably because recognizing what is technically a breakaway region opens a massive can of worms in a continent that is full of unstable pseudo-states.
What the frick is going on there, why is that shithole so important? is because of the red sea?
it's weird when you sometimes get reminded that italy is an actual country and not just some made-up place that's famous for their... food
and then they vanish from the news for 5 years despite the fact they should be roughly as important as the frogs or krauts when it comes to yurop
You sound very stupid if you think France is in the news and Italy isnt
>You sound very stupid
Or like the average American when talking about Europe
It's just part of the EU. At this point I see very little differences between them all. They're probably less different than most US states.
>They're probably less different than most US states.
And that's where you're wrong buckaroo
Hey anons, could we bankroll Somaliland? Do something like with Ukraine, but actually get more fun for less money. Imagine what can you get for the price od discounted left Twix bar. Belt for DSHKa? Fuel for T-34 found in scrapyard? Kinder surprise(10 kids with AK addicted to heroin) ? Like ngl, I would pay even for humanitarian things, but I would really like to see Somaliland succeed (not that I like nigs but I despise Italians)
was it actually delivered to the people fighting somaliland or just to the central goverment, because this looks like the latter?
although de jure it's all "somalia" the northern region basically does its own thing and are autonomous from the central government in mogadishu as far as i understand
You never know
kys
mental omega wannabe
everyone in Awdal hates Issaqs
everyone in SSC hates you Issaqs
everyone in Puntland hates you Issaqs
no one wants to separate you fricking moronic terrorist subhuman idoors. Stop making these threads, no one /k/ give a shit about this
>idoors
Lol what qabil are you. By the seething anger I'm guessing Darood but the mp4 implies Marehan specifically
>everyone in Awdal hates Issaqs
Awdal is pretty neutral tbh. The Dir there accepted their situation early on. What were they going to do? Join Djibouti?
>no one wants to separate
Well Isaaqs want to separate and tbh they should. The idea of one government for all Somalis is a farce. Everyone is a qabilist except maybe some diaspora who don't give a shit about it. Give every qabil their own government and let supranational organisations form to unite Somalis but as separate autonomous governments. Somaliweyn doesn't have to be a single government, as long as its free.
What's your solution? Killing them all? I'm not surprised a Darood has some demonic bloodlust for Isaaqs but you're probably diaspora. What went wrong? Did you not have Isaaq friends growing up? If so I'm guessing you're in America.
He's from a rival clan. They do this all the time.
A lot of the west via Kenya, Ethiopia and AMISON in general, then UAE and Qatar. Every other country has a really miniscule presence.
Come on, black man.