Is "turning your own copper bullets" the "next big thing" in at-home ammunition making/handloading? The modern equivalent of casting lead?
I have considered doing this and am comfortable with lathes but I'm not sure if I'm missing something.
Is "turning your own copper bullets" the "next big thing" in at-home ammunition making/handloading?
you could buy a small CNC lathe and do these all day every day if you wanted to. turning copper is pretty easy going shit
So where exactly does one buy a small CNC lathe for this kinda stuff?
Because with stuff like copper it's pretty easy to get casting imperfections. Lead is pretty easy, on the other hand.
Harbor freight and other tooling supply companies sell tiny hobby lathes. Theyre not really good for much besides woodworking but you could bubba some brass and copper on it decently enough.
If you replace the harbor freight lathe's inards with non plastic shit it will be okay, out of the box they are trash.
sherline or taig
>I'm not sure if I'm missing something.
You are. tight tolerance.
> turning copper is pretty easy going shit
Most monolithics aren't actually copper, it's gilding metal and if your driving bands aren't the proper centricity you can get a dangerous pressure spike when you shoot.
>Copper is less dense, so you would need a faster twist for a given bullet weight
Twist rate is based on bullet bearing surface, not density.
>theoretically make some real nasty tool steel penetrators
Tungsten electrodes for tig welding are also very good, can melt them in the lead cores of soft points.
Yes, I've wondered how hard it would be to make a progressive set of dies for use on a hydraulic shop press. Would be sweet to buy brass sheet and make your own brass but I think Starline actually makes custom turned bullets that can withstand high pressures but they use a proprietary alloy. The question i have is how thick do you need your sheet to make the case head thick enough at the webbing? Such a based endeavor.
Brass is hella good for penetration. African big bores are often loaded with brass solids for dangerous game.
picrel
You guys need to consider concentric tolerances. Barnes and Hornady copper solids aren't even copper, it's gilding metal and they use a screw machine not a lathe to make the driving band measurements as accurate as possible.
It could be done with a cnc lathe but it's going to have to be very ridged and I would assume a cheap cnc benchtop wont have the rigidity necessary to do it. Sherline's are made from aluminum, so you'd have to consider something like a taig.
I think it would be far more easier to make functional mono solids with a press, swaging and using pressed driving bands, made of a softer material. So using a copper solid machined to ride the lands and align the bullet to the barrel and use a softer material pressed driving band made of maybe tin/lead to rifle grooves.
is less dense, so you would need a faster twist for a given bullet weight
>Twist rate is based on bullet bearing surface, not density.
Ignore me, it's essentially the same thing. Bullet changes length and bearing surface based on density.
if you want to go high pressure, just machine your own cartridge casings out of steel. You get to pick the steel and maybe heat treat it as well.
Are driving bands necessary on solid bullets? I’m wondering why I don’t see them on regular factory bullets.
Non-smart fren here, being that copper is less than a third of the atomic mass of lead would this create 'unique' ballistic properties? I.e very fast muzzle velocity but susceptible to crosswind and bleeds velocity faster over distance
You seem smart enough to understand basic physics. Everything you said was accurate.
Copper is less dense, so you would need a faster twist for a given bullet weight
As an advantage you could theoretically shoot lighter bullets that would still seat and feed due to increased length
>being that copper is less than a third of the atomic mass of lead would this create 'unique' ballistic properties?
Flip the piece around and drill a hole in the back. If lead has a low melting temperature you could probably manage to get some lead into a precision made copper cup. Maybe.
There are already copper solids, lots of them. They are usually at a disadvantage because having a denser more compact bullet lets you put more of the bullet outside the case, leaving more room for powder. When using the same weight copper solid as a lead bullet, you usually have to reduce the powder charge because there's less room in the case, because most guns have a maximum cartridge length. Exceptions to this will mostly be found in single-shot rifles, where you can hang a bunch of extra bullet out the front of the chamber, until you hit the rifling, because the cartridge doesn't have to travel inside the gun from a magazine to the chamber.
>When using the same weight copper solid as a lead bullet,
Thats the neat part, you dont use the same weight, you use a lighter bullet, push it way faster, and kick more ass with it anyway. Penetrate soft armor with Pistol rounds. Penetrate any animal's skull, or level III armor with rifle rounds (not exactly the stuff of legend but worth having), while still having a good effect on soft tissue because of your absurd velocity.
Copper bullets penetrate well because while copper is lighter, the difference is offset by the material strength of copper compared to lead. Brass solids penetrate phenomenally well and they're lighter than lead.
Would these physics you speak of also mean that the future is not set and there is no fate but what you make?
Its not easier than swaging bullets out of lead wire and copper tube. Probably would cost the same to get set up for one or two calibers. The lathe to do the copper bullets would cost less over time and be able do more things though.
If you have a beefy lathe you could theoretically make some real nasty tool steel penetrators, maybe even a small tip to put into a mold when casting lead bullets
unsure if slightly lighter core or tip would work best. probably a trial and error thing.
Turning your own bullets is fine, just don't use turned case cartridges unless you're only doing standard loadings.
You need drawn brass case cartridges if you wanna do bubba's pissin' hot loads.
A turret lathe would do that all day and often beat CNC cycle times (which is why I keep getting outbid at auctions by businesses who will pay for the lathe in less than the single job they bought it for).
TIG tungstens aren't cheap but there's your AP core if you can afford the thick ones.
For mass production can't you make cooper bullets by cold rolling?
No, it would be slow as hell to produce a meaningful amount and the bullets would be less aerodynamic since you would have to make them larger to meet the same weight as a traditional bullet.
>No, it would be slow as hell to produce a meaningful amount and the bullets would be less aerodynamic since you would have to make them larger to meet the same weight as a traditional bullet.
You don't "meet the same weight as a traditional bullet", monolithic copper bullets are somewhat lighter and go faster and that's fine or even a good tradeoff most of the time. Not that heavy ones can't be made too that are just longer. But most people aren't shooting at 1000yd, and something that drops a bit faster is ok, and in some guns actually better. For my 308 gun for example, 168gr has the best accuracy, and in terms of capability I've never had the slightest issue hunting with TTSX copper ammo.
Making longer bullets with the same weight has beneficial effects on aerodynamics in many cases
Aslong as the extra length comes from ogive and boat tail, as opposed to bearing surface, yes.
Also, turning copper bullets on a lathe can produce some incredibly low form factors with point-like meplats. One 155.5gr .308 bullet from Warner Tool is only 4.5 calibers long but has an i7 form factor in the ballpark of 0.8.
why lathe, why not forming press?
I think brass would be even easier and cheaper.
You have to be careful with brass, depending on the caliber you're turning for, it could be considered manufacturing AP pistol ammo, which is a felony (who gives a frick tho). Same issue using tungsten alloys or steel/bronzes/beryllium copper alloys.
I thought that only applied to selling the ammo. Considering there's a """pistol""" for just able every rifle caliber available, such a law is BS to begin with.
No, to manufacturing it too. Picrel, definition of AP Pistol ammo. I've been wanting to make some m855/green tip style projectile by replacing the lead core (melt it out) with a cheap synthetic diamond, the refilling the rest of the jacket with zinc (harder than lead. Would be 100% legal, and you just need speed and hardness/non-deforming tip) to defeat poly backed soft armor and poly plates.
Interesting idea, although I'd be concerned about the internal concentricity of the internal components throwing off accuracy. If you ever go through with it I hope you post your progress on here.
My thoughts were to create a small fixture where I could glue the diamond to a small gauge needle with the tip ground off perpendicularly. This would let me hold the diamond centrally while in the mold, or push it down through the molten zinc quickly. Then, assuming the heat isnt enough to destroy the glue, I could drip solvent dowm through the bore of the needle and allow it some time to work before removing it.
I don't understand why you would want to make the entire bullet out of a soft metal like lead. the only reason normal bullets have a copper jacket at all is so they can engage with the rifling in the barrel, due to copper being soft
What about making a big mold and casting your own copper bullets from molten copper? Is there some material considerations with it that make it not as ideal as turned copper?
>Is "turning your own copper bullets" the "next big thing" in at-home ammunition making/handloading?
No. It's a thing some wealthy autists will do to eke more performance out of a cartridge
>The modern equivalent of casting lead?
Buying a lathe precise enough for bullets and gittin' good costs thousands of dollars and requires dextrous hands. The copper is expensive and needs to be in a specific alloy and form factor before you work it. Lathing copper produces a considerable amount of waste that you can't easily recycle, especially since it's going to be all mixed up with other metals, cutting fluid, and lube. You're going to be constantly adjusting and reloading the chuck because bullet diameters aren't enough to keep the rod from flexing at more than a couple calibers in length. If it does flex, the round is ruined and may damage your weapon.
I mean, there's plenty a reason to get a lathe. Lathing bullets isn't really worth it.
Casting lead requires a setup worth a couple hundred bucks. It's trivially repeatable, the alloys are cheap if not free, and reset between casts is a few seconds. 95%+ of your scrap from a cast is recyclable. A blown cast just goes back in the pot.
>turning a copper bullets
>not casting copper bullets
B4 anyone says "but copper castings have voids" not if you press a plug on top to force the molten copper into the mold.
You could also vacuum cast it.
But really you don't need a whole lot of lathe to machine 1/2" and smaller brass and copper to bullet sizes.
>just have a die maker make separate molds for each bullet you want to make bro
vs
>get a lathe that can make molds AND make bullets of any conceivable concentric shape
why are casting gays always like this?
Is the cost of a casted bullet less?
Is it faster to cast?
Is there a significant difference in quality and uniformity?
How many special snowflake bullets do you plan on making instead of just casting one or two shapes that suit your needs?
Surely there’s gotta be a faster way of doing that than one at a time.
Consider issues with penetration, if you were going to go this route then many materials are open to you. Theoretically. In minecraft.