Is this not a cheap and effective way for Russian soldiers to counter Ukrainian drones? I'm surprised they haven't been issued small calibre shotguns with birdshot for self defense yet.
Is this not a cheap and effective way for Russian soldiers to counter Ukrainian drones?
Theyd just save them to off themselves
theyd just save them to convenient anal correction of platoon roosters
I'm not sure. Wouldn't it be better to have like two or three guys with pump action shotgun instead of a sawed-off shotgun, not to mention i am pretty sure sawed-off shotguns have a stigma towards it for being a "thug gun" like how the Thompson was a "gangster gun".
>I'm not sure. Wouldn't it be better to have like two or three guys with pump action shotgun instead of a sawed-off shotgun,
A lot of the videos I've seen seem to show isolated individuals as the target.
>not to mention i am pretty sure sawed-off shotguns have a stigma towards it for being a "thug gun" like how the Thompson was a "gangster gun".
These guys were gopniks just a few years ago. They are already as stigmatized as they possibly could.
>Is this not a cheap and effective way for Russian soldiers to counter Ukrainian drones?
No, because drones fly far and above 50 m, and a sawn-off 12 ga can't hit a broad sied of a barn with buckshot on that distance.
> I'm surprised they haven't been issued small calibre shotguns with birdshot for self defense yet.
Because russians don't use shotguns in the military. KS-23 and that other short shotgun were meant for police use, they don't count.
>i am pretty sure sawed-off shotguns have a stigma towards it for being a "thug gun"
Kinda-sorta, but nevermind that using a sawnoff gun for drones is still a rather stupid idea
>Maybe it could also be chaff to disrupt the drone's coms. A mini-jammer on parachute to pop near the drone.
It's easier to assemble a working anti-drone gun than to make a mini-jammer that would work and won't fall apart.
You still need a longer barrel and huge powder load to make the stuff fly in proper direction and proper speed.
And incendiary pellets don't work.
Those drones are up a lot higher than you think. 90% of the time you’re not going to hear or see them before they drop a grenade or mortar shell on you
This has to be broken down a bit.
>Would a sawed off 12 gauge destroy a small suicide drone?
Yep. A .410 could probably do it, tbh.
>Would the Russians ever do it?
No.
The RF forces restrict armaments until an attack is expected, because you can't rape a guy with a shotgun, and the guys you've already raped will use their shotguns to delete your face and very probably the rest of their chain of command, before they then do the same to themselves.
I'll unironically answer this :
It doesn't work like that:
A non sawed off shotgun 12ga 3in shotgun has a spread of basically 1 in/yd or 3cm/m or range, longer barrels, tighter choke tubes and flite control wads can help but up to a point.
That's why 40 yd is the norm while hunting turkeys and 50/60 the ultimate max range if using 38 in 10ga or 12ga 3,5in guns and hope for the best.
Sadly a bomb dropping drone usually flies at 100 yd high MINIMUM and kamikaze drones are structurally way tougher thanfrail birds, thus meaning the range in wich tou MIGHT be able to hit them is basically their area of impact.
Oh and like being charged by a big game animal, like an elephant, you need to IMMEDIATELY incapacitate the kamikaze drone on its path to blow you or it still able to kill you.
Until we have portative 300m range ai aimed flak cannons, there's no handheld firearm to counter drones.
I'm thinking since the bomb is dropping straight down you'd have a chance with auto-shotgun.
then again, maybe portable one man cope-cage/umbrella/tent might work.
how about 12ga/20mm Proxy Fuse with 300yrd range. doesn't need to be effective against a burly WW2 fighter plane, just against drone.
Maybe it could also be chaff to disrupt the drone's coms. A mini-jammer on parachute to pop near the drone.
What if you had something even bigger like an 8ga and loaded it with incendiary pellets?
>What if you had something even bigger like an 8ga
Bigger shotguns have greater range but they aren't anywhere near good enough. An 8-ga is effective for hunting out to about 70 yards. a 4ga a little longer. Even a full-on punt gun with a 10 foot long barrel firing two pounds of tungsten shot is barely good to about 100 yards.
Sources:
8 Bore Ammunition by Douglas MacDougall
4 and 8 bore Shotguns and Loads by Tom Ambrust
You also have to figure those big guns are...well...big. They're hard to point because they're so damn heavy.
>incenidary pellets
What good is that supposed to do? It's not that the drones are tough, it's that they're too far away.
A 30 inch barreled full choke 3.5inch goose gun loaded with hevi shot bismuth could do it easily out to 80+ yards
That would require a level of technology equal to a 1950's Sears bargain rack so i'm afraid a 10ga Marlin Super Goose is beyond them.
>hevi shot bismuth
Pick one. I suggest the Hevi-shot, it's much denser than Bismuth.
80 yards though? Lol.
The problem with the hunting analogies is those 'acceptable' ranges are for ethical take presumably. I'd wonder what range is the pellet capable of damaging drone parts. Doesn't even have to be 'lethal' still.
Those ranges are for where the pellets still have a dense enough pattern to hit and enough energy to actually do something. Increasing density means you need more pellets at the cost of energy, while increasing energy means less pellets for less density.
Past 60 yards there is very low chance of damage. Past 80 it's almost zero regardless of what you are shooting.
Interesting thanks Anons.
>So you'd presumably let a friend shoot at you with a shotgun from say 80-100yds away since it won't do anything. /s
One Finnish investigative journalist did exactly that, but at 70 metres (with birdshot) and recorded it on video in 1991 due to the city of Turku closing down the shotgun range nearby the airport and claiming the shotgun to be lethal for any distances under 300 metres, with any ammunition.
Depends on the shell in question. Bird shot 100yds away is not the same as 1.25oz slug.
>The problem with the hunting analogies is those 'acceptable' ranges are for ethical take presumably.
No, most are based on lethality.
At least according to the old British sources like W. W. Greener's The Gun and Its Development, picrel, people back then literally shot birds at different distances to determine how many pellets with how much energy was enough to bring them down. Bird shooting was extremely competitive among rich people in the 19th century, people experimented the frick out of everything and it was highly optimized even back then. People were testing penetration of shot through features, how the shot pattern changed in every dimension, blah blah blah.
Yes, this would work. BUT you fail to realize that Russia does not give a frick about the lives of their men, so much so that giving them a $100 Hatfield sawed off 12g single shotgun is too much.
pretty sure i've seen photos of russians wielding shotguns, tho idk if they actually used it against drones
there's also a video of ukrainians doing it, i'd say it's been done
Take a look at the terminal ballistics for bird shot. The height that drones are flying at means that they can't be reached by it.
It would only be effective against a rapidly closing suicide drone, and that's just a moment's notice at best.
this should work for the small drones, I think. As for the big kamikaze gasoline powered drones, it (probably) won't work.
Those don't work worth a crap. People have filmed them on youtube. The string has so much drag that the "net" doesn't stay open, and it has even worse range than round shot.
Are you guys moronic? These drones fly 100+ yards in the air, no shotgun with birdshot is going hit with that.
>honestly this is so moronic, why do you guys think this would ever work? Really like it's so fricking annoying seeing these moron threads.
They're not moronic, they just have poor understanding of the real-life performance of shotguns because their knowledge comes from video games and movies instead of going duck hunting.
couldnt slugs work better since they have better energy transfer
>couldnt slugs work better since they have better energy transfer
A slug would destroy a drone, sure. But "energy transfer" isn't the problem. Hitting a tiny target at distance is. Why shoot slugs at it when you could shoot a machine gun at it? That would have a faster rate of fire, a flatter trajectory making it easier to hit, and the ammo is much smaller/lighter meaning you can carry more of it.
They're all noguns tourists, they think war is like cawadoody.
Another moronic thread about shotguns and drones.
huhuhu dude what if they put shotgun on drone dud lolmao uhuhuhu
Here's a better idea, proper surface to air gun except it's way smaller and chambered in something like 22lr
.17 M2/HMR minigun, tungsten rounds
Like this but in .22 LR. If you mount one on every vehicle you can establish drone-free zones.
The range is pretty ass, vid related
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Why does it have to be from a shotgun? Why can't they just send a few volleys from their issued rifles? Surely you could take one out before it got to you. These guys used to have teams of slavs loaded up with nuggets sending lead volley after lead volley into the general direction of the enemy and they actually got some hits. Why can't they just do that to drones? I just don't believe that a flying object is basically impossible to hit out of the air with a rifle. Besides, even if they did have a regular shotgun, any man should be able to shoot one of those kamikaze drones down with some magnum tungsten bird shot within 40 or 50 yards and that is plenty of distance to not get blown up by the explosion.
Jesus christ
War tourists dont own guns
What about flechette rounds? H&K CAWS was supposed to be effective out to 150m with those.
As other anons have mentioned, it's an issue of range and shot density.
Even if you have one of those big Black person 10 gauge pump actions with a turkey choke for low dispersion, using hevi shot for energy retention, the longest range you're going to get a half-decent density is (let's be optimistic and say) 60 yards. The only thing you could hit at that range is either an FPV on its attack run, or a similarly-inclined Lancet. Meaning you're the target, or are standing right next to it (which is kind of a bad situation in the first place). Those annoying surveillance doodlebugs, or the "special late Christmas delivery" ones? Golden BB hour.
Take a hand full of 6mm fishing weights, some thing guitar string. Take two each of string and attach one weight at each end, fill shell and shoot.
Just give them grenade rounds that instead of exploding deploy a lightweight but massive net in the general direction of drones. You don't have to destroy drones, just tangle them so they crash early. Problem solved
#4 BUCKshot.
Not birdshot.
Pellets of that size are effective to greater range, which is why things like a punt gun are good to 100 yards, but in a normal size shotgun there's huge holes in the pattern at 100 yards. The pellets are big enough to have improved range, but there are too few of them to ensure a hit at that distance.
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And by using the grenade as a weight
I doubt it, I have a DJI Mavic mini 2, a smaller and weaker drone than what is typically getting used in Ukraine, I typically fly it at an altitude of about 150m when checking my property for scallywags since that is the lowest I've found I can fly it without the sound of it being audible to somebody standing below it, id imagine theirs fly higher. Tough shot to make with a shotgun on something that small, I feel like the solution to quadcopter drones is probably something else.
>calibre
>moronic take
every time. somebody just fricking rangeban everywhere except america already