Is there still a reason to use 9 mm if you can use 5.7 for big pistols and 30 super carrry for small ones?
Is there still a reason to use 9 mm if you can use 5.7 for big pistols and 30 super carrry for small ones?
Is there still a reason to use 9 mm if you can use 5.7 for big pistols and 30 super carrry for small ones?
9mm is a mediocre round which is slowly being phased out as we speak
I'll say this as many times as it takes:
Stopping power is just a meme.
with this in mind, 9mm rounds are still deadly and taking them away only limits our options for rounds and in turn weapons.
why do people desperately want to get away from 9mm when 10mm has already been shown to be the only viable alternative? are they that desperate to feel special?
There are fads in any hobby. They come about from a combination of companies wanting to develop new products to get more $$$, and from useful idiots jumping on the bandwagon. There are always new cartridges being developed and most end up being forgotten. The handful that everyone can name like 9mm, .45, .38, .357, are the ones that will always be around simply because of inertia. Just as how nobody carries 5.7 velo-dog anymore despite it being incredibly popular for a time, in 20 years there will be some new meme round that has replaced 5.7x28.
That said there are some legitimate benefits to some newer rounds. 5.7 is a lot lighter than 9mm, so that has logistical advantages for the military. Does it matter for a CCW? probably not.
I do think it's time for some institutions to adopt .30 SC in place of 9mm Luger. I think much like .45 ACP and 9mm Makarov, the 9mm Luger has run its course. We may indeed see that in the coming decades.
>in 20 years there will be some new meme round that has replaced 5.7x28.
Except for the fact that NATO adopted 5.7x28mm in March 2021. So it's actually on the upswing.
In what world is 10mm 'the only viable alternative'? It is literally the least adopted cartridge mentioned in this thread. 5.7mm, 40 S&W, 45 Auto, 357 Magnum are all adopted on a large scale by enforcement agencies domestically and elsewhere.
fpwp (yes obviously it's bait)
>9mm is a mediocre round
Performs as well as every other handgun round.
>every single snowflake attempt to reinvent the wheel with duty pistol rounds failed and everyone abandoned their proprietary, custom designed calibers to just go straight back to 9mm
lmao. even the fricking cops figured out that most any functional pistol duty round is going to be interchangeable and all that really matters is capacity and ability to get rounds on target, and "enthusiasts" on /k/ STILL cant get it through their frickin heads and dickrides the stoppan powah meme
Smaller calibers like 5.7 and 30 sc allow you to have bigger capacity
>5.7 is smaller than 9mm
Ummmm is it?
I never touched 5.7 so I actually don’t know but I think you’re mistaken
it's longer but thinnner, so you need a designated gun for it, but you can fit more ammo in the same width and height of gun
I quite like the bigger grip (front/back) as well
Thanks for the answer anons
It's slimmer and longer which means 5.7 pistols need to have very wide grips but can also have high capacity, usually 20
PSA Rock has 23
>muh capacity
And that only really matters because most cops effectively don't practice. Someone recently posted a breakdown of police accuracy using statistics from a study vs how Eli Dicken performed when stopping that mall shooter, and the 10 rounds he fired to get 8 hits quickly turned into multiple reloads if average cops were responding and more rounds than the shooter fired if 3 or more officers were involved.
You’re forgetting the detail that he had a braced position when he shot, that’s not something you normally have in a self-defense shooting
>You’re forgetting the detail that he had a braced position when he shot
Only for the first 4 rounds he shot at 40 yards, which is also where the 2 rounds he missed were fired. The last 6 were fired unsupported inside 20 yards.
A) I’m impressed if you actually remember the details that well
B) I don’t remember the details that well to dispute you but if you’re wrong I will mock you incessantly
>A) I’m impressed if you actually remember the details that well
There was a more recent article that came out earlier this year that gave a ton of details including the distances and rounds fired at each along with his gun and ammo choice:
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/content/true-hero-eli-dicken-cleared-of-charges-praised-by-police/
Ah okay, I do remember that article because it showed the Elijah was wrong but I just skimmed it so the details didn’t stick. Thanks anon
*Elijah drill
I've heard there's an episode of the "The Gun Guy" podcast with Eli Dicken as well where he mentions how much he practiced as well, and supposedly it isn't much. I haven't tracked down which episode it is though.
I could believe that. I’m of the belief that regardless of the weapon killing in self defense is an instinct for humans
Yeah yeah homosexual, have a nice day
are you moronic?
I said I had no experience with that round you absolute fricking homosexual
>making unqualified statements because he can’t do math and doesn’t know basic information about numerous handguns
moron
When you inevitably have a nice day for being an unloved, insufferable homosexual, your family will celebrate
I asked a question and acknowledged I didn’t know, frick off
If you can’t be assed to google basic information then at least just ask your question as it stands instead of saying silly shit like “I know nothing but I think you’re wrong” and “only capacity and recoil matter which is why 9mm is best”
First off 9mm is best
Second off, I was half right, 5.7 is bigger than 9mm when I comes to length
>but…but you could google it
Then this forum is frickin pointless and should be purged from the internet. If I can’t ask questions about weapons on the weapons forum there’s no point to it
You need to be told where to find the trigger too? This shit is elementary knowledge. You don’t go to a gun forum to ask which end of the barrel the bullet comes out of.
>I was half right
You clearly weren’t in that context.
You must be the most popular guy at the parties you attend, I’m sure everyone loves being in your company
Instead of getting butthurt, just don’t make assertive statements out of sheer ignorance and I can overlook your need to ask easily searchable questions.
>b-but muh 10mm meme rounds that are never in stock and $3/rd have like 200 more ft/lbs of muzzle energy
Not really. 9mm Luger seems to make the least amount of sense. If you want
1) A firearm with lots of available rounds to target the CNS, lungs/heart you would want to go with 5.7
2) a higher powered, heavier, commonly available cartridge go with 357 magnum, 40 S&W or 45AARP to cause rapid blood pressure loss, incapacitation
Same reason a 5.56 AR is a good idea even though 5.56 is not that good compared to alternatives. Cost per rounds, ammo availability, weapon availability, choice of ammunition loads. When one of these cartridges becomes Uber common like most well-known calibers I’ll think about it, until then it’s all just niche wildcats.
In the civil world availability and economics matter a lot, it pains me to say. If I had money I wouldn't bother with the cartridge whatsoever unless I specifically owned an original luger.
Yes market adoption is really the end all. 9mm isn't invincible, but will be here for a long time.
>extremely flexible
i.e. extremely mid
>5.7 was (headcanon)
The five-seven pistol is deployed all over the world.
have you considered 7.62 tokarev or .22 TCM instead
Yes. Picrel. .30supercarry is neat, and will hopefully fill its niche well in micro compact guns, but 9x19 with modern powders and metallurgy will be superior. .30sc is also the bastardized knock off of 7.92x24vbr, but they couldn't even stick with .30carbine case head dimensions, which might have lead shellshock to develop a .30carbine/.30sc line that would allow even greater performance to be eked out of supercompact semi's, and increased performance for anyone still rocking an m1 carbine.
I found a mag in my range bag that I thought I had lost, and it was loaded with what I THOUGHT were Federal HST 124gr+P.
I don't remember ever seeing a case like this, and the atlas arms photo got my noggin joggin'. What kind of ammo do I have?
The cases are Shell Shock S3, could be any number of loaders, anything look familiar?
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/checklist-of-companies-using-nas3-9-mm-cases/27280
Thanks bro, that makes sense with the head stamp and all.
Nah, I don't remember buying anything off that list, and this stuff is probably like 6-8 years old at this point. I dunno, the jhp looks like my other HSTs but that don't mean much.
you have some 9mm Luger
if it was 9mm Major it would say so
>30 super carrry for small ones?
Normally I carry 9mm Luger (it’s obviously the best cc round) but why not .380 for the small ones? That’s the way I go
>Is there still a reason to use 9 mm if you can use 5.7 for big pistols and 30 super carrry for small ones?
Yes. It's that 9mm is superior to both of those shitty meme rounds. 380 is better than 30supercucked for small pistols. 9mm is just plain good for the use case, extremely flexible, with loads available readily and cheaply for anything from basic b***h fmp to quality hp to frangible to +P+ copper screw drivers. It achieves solid burn even in a short barrel. Doesn't require special manufacturing lube shit applied to the cartridge.
5.7 was designed for SMGs with pistols an after thought. P90s are fun but it's a dead end. 30sc was designed to extract money from everyone's wallet by selling them new guns that have zero real world difference.
Handguns are solved as far as performance goes. The only thing that might change that down the line is fundamental changes in other areas, like electronic plasma firing and polymer telescoped ammo, which have actual economic arguments. None of that is showing up in the near future though and adoption won't be about performance if they ever do.
Can't 9mms be converted to 22tcm? looks like a badass round.
9mm Super
Its all like = ALLAMERICANSONLYDRIVEHARLEYS-nonsense.
Olypmicans literally shoot .22 all the time on millimeters reaching targets with percistance on 50m (54 yards). Think those guys are the real "gunners" and here on PrepHole you only see morons.
Yeah lets talk to Hans Kukkoldsenn from Bimbu Sweden about what 22lr he uses to shoot Black folk, moron.
Yeah, because all the guns are chambered in 9mm and none are chambered in .30 super carry, and the whopping 2 that are chambered in 5.7 cost more than you'd lose in 10 muggings.
PSA Rock is under $500 with optic
why would anyone use 5.7? without the purpose-built AP ammo, it's completely pointless. also is about triple the cost of 9mm so you won't get nearly as much practice.
>why would anyone use 5.7? without the purpose-built AP ammo, it's completely pointless.
It's pointless in handguns even with the purpose AP ammo. All the velocity figures you see thrown around are from the 10 or 16" barrel P90/PS90. 5.7 out a handgun barrel is a fireball generator and also shaves off so much velocity that you can nearly reach it with 9mm itself (like those 68gr XDs). And if one starts talking specialty banned-for-civilians AP ammo, well stuff like tungsten core APS exists for 9mm too.
Anyway just further backing up your point. Not that P90s aren't super fun to give a spin if one gets the chance at the range or a friend has one or whatever and no doubt even more fun with select fire which I've never got to try and probably never will. But 300bo ammo is literally the same price and mogs it, I just can't see ever getting one vs an SBR.
Absolute nonsense, there are common commercial loadings now that will touch 2000 out of a 5" barrel and if you want to talk about fancy stuff, elite ammo has stuff that will do 2500 from a 5 inch barrel.
You're wrong about the meme 9mm stuff because I use 68gr +p underwood extreme defenders in my full sized turbo based apx, and they make around 1800. The 90s do 1600ish.
You got poop on your butt you big poopy butt
Ammo prices are criminally low. It's time to eliminate all affordable rounds and jack the prices by 500%.
What could possibly be wrong with that?