Is there any evidence for the J-20 actually being a 5th gen fighter? It has zero combat experience and was detected over Tibet at long range by Indian radar
Is there any evidence for the J-20 actually being a 5th gen fighter?
Is there any evidence for the J-20 actually being a 5th gen fighter? It has zero combat experience and was detected over Tibet at long range by Indian radar
Cheap slide thread to bait chink-bashing morons.
What's next? a white-chinese girl thread?
>implying WMAF is a problem
>implying BMAF is a problem
>implying those two aren't actually preferred
>implying you don't want a cute little Han Chinese/Eritrean gf
It's probably decent. If it's even remotely stealthy (so for our definitions a fair bit lower RCS than say a Super Hornet) and has a decent radar, avionics and weapons, then yeah, it's going to curbstomp anything 4th gen the Indians can throw at it.
post nose
>getting that angry over a joke
You got me anon, I'm Israeli. You should get an asian gf, trust. The bioweapons we're cooking up won't kill you as long as you have some of her DNA in your ass, so make sure she pegs you as well.
Going to actually talk about the J-20 or just be a moron?
>Jews are pro-chink
That ship had sailed long ago after chinksects started gushing over hamas and unironically idolizing Hitler.
in Chinese military threads, i always assume the OP is white until proven asian or israeli
I prefer Japanese women, far as slants go.
>a white-chinese girl thread?
WMAF is objectively the most kino inter species pairing
>the indian express
sir please do not read
god that thing might actually be a half decent plane if the jeets are coping out this hard over it
good one, chinky
jeets are annoying but you bugs just need to be exterminated
j20 is fricking garbage. simple as.
even chinks themselves think it's such fricking garbage that they're replacing it already, lol.
I hate both sides, wish theyd just figure their shit out already and not shit this place up anymore
>was detected over Tibet at long range by Indian radar
saar do not redeem the retroreflector
>Mig 29 bodykit
>5th gen
...that makes about as much sense as calling the F-22 an F-5 bodykit.
The Chinese literally licensed the Russian Flanker and then stopped paying.
chad move. that and the space stuff were literally the last pieces of russian technology worth paying for. what the frick are they gonna do about it versus the one country on earth that they can't afford to stop trading with
>frick timovsky gon do?
you know its utterly depressing how often the fricking morons start screeching away about "its a Flanker in a body kit" as if its their flatbed truck with bolt-on arches.
Explain to them that you don't do "body kits" on airframes, and it might just possibly be a little more complicated than they understand, and they're back to repeating the same old ignorant bullshit 24 hours later, every fricking time.
The worst bit is they think they're so much smarter than the Indians or Chinese people who they denigrate. The reality is they're exactly the same degree of stupidity.
Don't spread misinfo. J-20 is a MiG-1.44 bodykit
Please stop Rajesh. 36 Rafale, even adding the 26 Modi is supposed to order soon for your navy, will not be enough to protect you from China. You would need ten times that number to really have a potent repellent against the yellow menace.
More than.
Pakistan has around 400 fighters of various age, many of them Mirages and F-16s.
China has 2,000 of various types, from J-7s (Mig-21s) to Su-35s.
The latter is a big problem, of course.
>Please stop Rajesh. 36 Rafale, even adding the 26 Modi is supposed to order soon for your navy, will not be enough to protect you from China. You would need ten times that number to really have a potent repellent against the yellow menace.
Basé Mr Chirac. Achetez plus de Rafales, Saar.
(Based, Mr Chirac. Buy more Rafales, Saar.)
>not going for Monsieur
rosbeef/du vin, du pain, du bousin
Oui bon ça va, Monsieur Chirac.
Désolé d'avoir utilisé une abréviation sur un forum de collection de pommes de pain.
Fun fact, "Mr." is the english abbreviation for mister but in French it's just "M."
>mfw a country choses the Rafale
It's a plagiarized Flanker riced up with aftermarket bodykit.
>Is there any evidence for
No, not for the j-20, not for anything else in China. They lie about what's in their baby formula, they lie about the concrete in their buildings, they lie about the steel they make, they lie about their GDP, they lie about the eggs they sell, they lie about their wet markets, they lied about what the Japs did to them, they lie about their cooking oil, they lie about everything. Why would you believe they're telling the truth about their jets?
Because if we behave as if their jets work and they do, we don't get surprised. If they don't work, we get to curbstomp. If we behave as if their jets don't work and they do, see Zero vs Buffalo
our MIC has historically always believed our enemies were stronger than they were for funding and solving problems that may not be real
>Rafale is combat proven
>it has bombed Toyota trucks in bumfrickistan
Like everything else China makes, it’s of dubious quality.
Being detected on long-range search radar is not the same as being detected by fire control radar.
Is it most likely shit? Yes.
Can the F-22 and F-35 also be detected on search radar? Also yes.
This is irrelevant in a real conflict.
The ONLY evidence is the obvious attempt at stealth geometry. But based on everything that we can see we can infer that it was a failed 5th-gen project. Now, that’s not to say they’ve given up on it; quite the contrary, they’ve supposedly acquired them in some numbers and even if they’re not real gen 5 aircraft they’re at least an upgrade over their older planes. Keeping the factory and design group alive is a net positive for them because they can go through the process of learning / stealing and continuing towards the goal of making an actual 5th gen in the future.
But don’t worry, they’re NEVER be a situation in which the J-20 goes up against the US. If it ever comes down to a shooting war, expect the PLAAF to be grounded safely in underground bunkers — they should be well aware of how badly the US overmatches them in air capability.
Didn’t based Chinks create J-20 to directly challenge US air dominance?
I guess mission failed.
Realistically I expect them to use it as a missile truck lobbying shit at the pacific from the safety of the mainland air space. Burgers consistently demonstrate they are scared to death of fighting all out any other big conventional army with nooks. So they wont be able to do much then be active in the pacific defending against the missile spam and lobbying back their own salvos
In regards to search radar. High-power search radar, if it detects a stealth plane at distance will only give you a general bearing and wide band of potential location. It knows something man-made is in a certain direction in a vague area of space going at a certain speed. Signal processing picks out the speck of return from all the background noise based on how fast it’s moving along with any other markers it’s been programmed to recognize, but that’ll all it gives you. That information is used to direct a more focused search — 3D / targeting radar is focused in that direction looking to firm up the contact if possible but it’ll struggle because 3D / targeting radar uses a much higher resolution wavelength which has a hard time illuminating stealth at the same distance a long-wavelength search radar can. Here, aircraft will be directed to search the area for the contacts — but with LPI radar in 5th gen (Low-Probability Intercept, basically stealth radar) anyone who’s also not 5th gen will get straight-up baby seal clubbed because they’ll be seen long before they have a hope of spotting the contacts. So while high-power, sensitive long-wavelength band search radars can detect stealth from a much further distance away it’s only limited as a tactical benefit.
all these distinctions are moot because the J-20 is well known to operate with retroreflectors most of the time, same as we do with the F-22 and F-35. the chinese aren't stupid, they're gonna keep the damn things on anywhere near their borders or coastline. no one outside china is gonna know this thing's actual RCS unless and until it gets into a real shooting war
by this metric JF17 is even more combat proven, it got s kill vs. the poo air force
homie it didn't kill shit
The most compelling evidence for it being stealth is that Indians are trying to convince you that it isn't
>Is there any evidence for the J-20 actually being a 5th gen fighter? It has zero combat experience and was detected over Tibet at long range by Indian radar
I'm not a nerd or expert about what it means to be 5th gen, however I want to point out that the J20 has a radar cross-section of similar size as the SU57. By that I mean that J20 RCS is smaller than SU57 RCS but they are on the same order of magnitude.
At least that's what I've been shown/told.
If you consider SU57 to not be a true 5th gen because it's low observability, not true stealth like F22or F35, then you can say the same about the J20.
J20 is meant to be used by the chinese as kind of a sniper, flying at high altitudes and engaging targets from as far away as possible.
So the RCS being a bit shitty is not as crucial as it would be on other aircraft, so I'm not sure if to call it 5th gen or not.
For simplicity's sake, it's not the end of the world if call it 5th instead of 4.5th Gen or 4.6th Gen.
And that’s why they invested in those frickhuge PL-15 missiles
I love the PL-15, they pretty much brute-forced into being a extra-long range to compete with the JATM.
Kinda like the Mig-31 vs Sr-71, sure it's not the same, but is "good enuf".
What's the point if sensors aren't up to snuff to work on 200km+ ranges?
How the frick could they make a stealth design and use a stealth coating and end up with a non stealth product? It definitely at least has frontal stealth.
Actually there's multiple variants of the J-20. The guy you're talking to is probably comparing the J-20A to the Su-57. J-20A without stealthy inlets is still the most common version.
The Russians sculpted the Su-57 for maximum stealth yet they failed to understand that exposed screws and fricking engines will defeat that to some degree.
At this point, it’s probably safe to assume that Russian military aviation industry is basically dead barring a miracle. Su-57 seems like it could be alright against 4th gen fighters, but looking at how fricking hard time they have making them in any considerable numbers… it also strongly implies that there are some pretty serious problems with the design, because they sure as hell didn’t originally intend to make such a ridiculous small fleet of them with the project budget.
And yeah, F-35 was also a project plagued with issues but it pulled through and now the end result is a good fighter with reasonable unit cost. I don’t have the same confidence about Su-57.
>a good fighter with reasonable unit cost
it's an amazing fighter with excellent unit cost frankly
>I don’t have the same confidence about Su-57.
forgive me for being a quant and looking at things in quant terms, but so far I believe it works
Russia had the GDP of Italy at the start of the war, before sanctions
picture, if you will, how successful a SOLO Italian 4.5-5th gen fighter project can possibly be
picture the production rate
and that's BEFORE considering the effect of the Ukraine war
SU-57 was never going to amount to much
It’s kind of easy to forget how Soviet Union had insane amounts of resources, both money and brains, for their weapons development.
The Italy - Russia comparison isn’t entirely realistic because Russia still has some of that old talent base left for fighter design despite the brain drain (not saying that it’s the same guys anymore from Soviet era, but even Russians probably try to keep up a chain of knowledge transfer from one generation of engineers to next), while Italy has no experience on solo projects, but sure, there are limits on how far you can fuel your development on old fumes. It’s one thing to keep improving on Su-27, but making a proper paradigm leap from it is going to be pretty much impossible with their resources.
>Russia still has some of that old talent base left for fighter design
there was a topwar.ru article a while back talking about the principal designer for the Su-27. he's 85 years old.
>making a proper paradigm leap from it is going to be pretty much impossible with their resources.
nor could they build enough. every European fighter programme is a joint venture because it's impossible for anyone to go it alone now, future fighter tech is just too complex and expensive.
Su-57 and ... "Checkmate" ... jfc with these vatniks, seem to be stuck in past and I think it is simply a lack of technology and access to technology.
Russia has been braindrained to hell and back and almost everything they try to do shows that, from T-14 to S-500 and everything in between.
>5th gen
That's a marketing term. It doesn't really mean anything.
>the Chinese are incapable of making lunburg lenses to alter their radar signature
>combat proven
>for bombing sandal clad warbands and civilian villages
It will still murder the shit out of pajeet planes, sorry op.
If China couldn't do stealth they'd have just shat out more Su-27 clones or attempted an F-15 clone instead