Is the Puma actually bad or is it just yellow journalism declaring so?
A German on PrepHole told me that the vehicle itself is fine but the electronic add on kit for the latest upgrade package is what the problem is as it's prone to severe overload failures. Seems like it's very similar to the Lynx but with less troop capacity and better mobility.
The vehicle entered service without being properly tested. Imagine a reverse Ajax - instead of finding and fixing before accepting, they accepted for PR reasons and then tried and failed to fix it quietly.
This is wrong, the the vehicle itself was tried and tested. the problem is all the extra shit that was requested AFTER the order. irc they are still requesting extra stuff even now.
Why not just add the off the shelf components of the Lynx?
That's wrong and you have no fricking clue what you are talking about.
The Puma was ordered when there were absolutely no functioning prototypes yet.
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/puma-ministerium-bestellt-405-umstrittene-panzer-a-623846.html
That "extra shit that was requested after" was actually shit KMW and RM were required to provide per contract, but they had to add it in slowly over time because the entire vehicle wasn't actually finished. That's why it took 10 extra years to get into a proper serviceable condition
>This is wrong, the the vehicle itself was tried and tested
It clearly wasn't because there are many issues that stem from manufacture. Just because you ask for extra stuff during manufacture doesn't mean it doesn't get tested before being accepted into service.
>the vehicle itself was tried and tested
The German army saying they did this is not the same as people doing it properly. They may as well just have signed a form to say the vehicle arrived at the depot and left it at that. Look at how armoured vehicle trials are done in the US, UK and Australia for an idea of what you're missing out on.
>12-24 months of simulated combat
>driving significant distances every day
>firing hundreds of rounds every day
>maintained by army personnel not manufacturer crew
>testing suspension and other systems to destruction
>observing combat equivalent wear
>learning about spare part use rates, major component lifespan
>at the end of the process the pool of vehicles are completely spent
>used for target practice to evaluate protection
There is no situation where Puma would pass these tests in the countries mentioned and have to suffer the embarrassment of 18/18 vehicles in a unit out of action AFTER being accepted into the army.
>There is no situation where Puma would pass these tests
how do you know?
They dont, they are talking out of their ass
Hmm maybe when 100% of a units vehicles are fricking broken in peacetime training exercise with some of them catching fire there is a serious problem with the design that should have been detected in rigorous trials?
Are you really so nationally fragile that you can't handle accepting that a 100% failure rate is a bad thing?
>https://www.dw.com/en/technical-problems-plague-germanys-puma-armored-vehicles/a-64138126
moron. It needs one broken bulb to be classified as "broken". 17/18 pumas were fine again a few weeks later and only the one with a cable fire remained oos for longer.
Lmao this is cope. Why were they pulled from the NATO commitment? Why was the order paused?
get fricked.
It has failed every single export tender it was entered into and Chile said they feared they wouldn't even be able to keep up with their older Marders in a real conflict.
>It has failed every single export tender it was entered into
Cant find anything about Chile. Can you source me up?
http://www.infodefensa/2013/04/04
can you screen it? cant access it even via vpn
It's a dead link. Not him but remembered the trial. Chilean Army said it wqs an immature study and it couldn't prove reliability though could prove capability.
Chile never actually trialed it. Just had a few for tests and said they wouldn't look at it for a while because it was too unproven.
User error, a MoD that was completely unfit for her postition, a disgrunteld General who whistleblew and a german media that didnt follow up on the story in their english outlets
Could he fix it?
>a MoD
more like three or four in a row
It all started with Scharping in the 2000s and his outsourcing of everything. BWL doesnt really translate into a good MoD it seems
its been going on for so long that some of us dont even know that it used to be diffrent.
It's pretty good
>unmanned turret so anyone shooting at it probably won't do any lasting damage
>light armor which is the meta in this game, all rounds tend to simply overpen
It's a great IFV now, but it was ordered and put in service when it actually was still in the prototype phase. Which is why fr the following 10 years, it was actually unsuitable for the army and required multiple (costly) upgrades to get into a state where it does what it's supposed to do.
it's probably fine, but the first revision with a fricking 5.56 coax was moronic.
>yellow journalism declaring so?
Mostly this. You cannot trust anything the news reports. Same way F-35 is the worst jet ever despite being a stealth F-16.
The F35 did have many problems and only through pressure were many of these resolved. Being too comfortable in your national abilities and not addressing every flaw or claimed flaw is how you turn into Russia, stagnating from a major power to a country that can't even compete with Americas prime source of cheap labor.
pic doesnt tell the full story. Mexico is just a giant outsourcing facility for german and american cars, while russia is the gas station of the world, nothing new.
That map is false equivalency. Mexicans actually aren't that stupid or poor. They're just mediocre compared to the worlds most powerful country. They also have gigantic industrial strength due to capitalizing on trade agreements with the worlds largest import market.
There were problems in 2020, improvements, a failed test in 2021,improvements, a failed exercise in 2022 then last minute improvements to get Puma ready for the VJTF role in 2023, and guess what? Marder was deployed and not puma because it's still broken.
So don't fricking try and pass it off as something you can ignore. You accepted an awful vehicle into service that doesn't work.
It's an unholy mixture of many things.
If you've never been in the german cultural sphere, you miss the cultural context. I'm from Austria and we're known to be hardasses when it comes to gov. shit or gear in general. Germans are infinitely worse.
The puma is fine as it is, the last practice run had a lot of terthing problem. The US would have said: okay, lets iron these out and then get mass production going.
Not in Germany.
Hippies:
>PUMA BAD because frick the army, we need peace and shit
Bean counters and germans in general:
>This IFV is the worst thing ever, two screws are loose! Olaf Scholz should leave his post immideatly.
Quislings:
>We can't antagonize russia, scrap this program. We should import superiour rugged russian gear.
Just wait a little, once the puma mows down a few russians/terrorists then all will be well.
The success of the Marder in Ukraine instantly shut up anyone in germany.
Problems are completely overblown by both the Anglo press and their dick sucking friends in German journalism.
The whole Pzh 2000 situation was simply ridiculous for example.
It's state of the art, but like anything German, you get diminishing returns for the extra you pay.
It's the difference between buying a Toyota vs. a Mercedes (when they were still good).
>Problems are completely overblown
100% failure rate on a peacetime operations with Marder being brought in to replace Puma for NATO commitments. This vehicle entered service in 2015.. further orders have been paused.
Yeah it's totally those mean anglos and not our own frick ups.
Should the Lynx replace the Puma in German service. It seems to do everything the Puma does but better except it has worse handling as the Puma has hydro suspension. Seems like Germany could just order the KF41 with Puma suspension to fix the issues cheaply. We might replace the Bradley with the Lynx but with a Bushmaster 50mm gun and hybrid engine.
Lynx is actually an awesome vehicle, and ordering them in bulk could even drive down the cost.
>100% failure rate
Germany failure rate.
Germany classifies military vehicles as broken when they dont pass the requirements to participite in every day street traffic
>100% failure rate on a peacetime operations
See
I knew there'd be at least one of those morons in this thread lmao
the price also comes from the fact that the orders got smaller and smaller, so the cost had to be redistributed.
>Puma
>Lynx
>Tracked boxer
Why so many?
Did you say Puma?
>Is the Puma actually bad or is it just yellow journalism declaring so?
The vehicle is just fine, there was some fake news around it that got cleared up 2 days later but obviously nobody ever posts the corrections so some morons still believe the story about like 10 failing at once when it was literally just stuff like a rattling bucket for all but one of the vehicles (which was fit for service again a couple days later as well).
It's just the lynx with all the bells and whistles some eggheads from the BW wanted, no need to overcomplicate it.