Russia has effectively destroyed Severodonetsk as a location. Ukraine's military has largely escaped encirclement, and Russia has lost a considerable amount of combat power.
Also, even its propaganda value to the Kremlin is a double-edged sword. How the FRICK can Putin admit the Russian invasion forces are STILL badly short on manpower now? It would completely undermine the whole "we're winning now" narrative.
Which means....no General Mobilization for Russia.
Is this Strelkov? Do you have a link to the full post?
It is, but I don't alas. I'm sure someone else does.
His point still stands out though. Ukraine isn't magically "going away" even if Donbas is temporarily taken.
>Donbas is temporarily taken.
“””temporarily”””
I don't get it, why Igor is not yet in the KGB basement with torn nails and polyurethane foam in anus?
He must have some real dirt on Putin.
We've been trying to find out where Putin's money is. Maybe Girkin knows, and Putin knows damn better than to risk all his personal supply of cash.
>polyurethane foam in anus
what's the point here?
It expands quite a lot and plugs up the bungus until his poop backs up and comes out his mouth
I assume
Probably one of the types of torture. I think inquisition and ISIS envied r*ssians.
Russians are bored with buttsecs by the time theyre out of bootcamp, they have to experiment.
Russian butts are so blasted from boot camp they need to glue it back together.
don't overthink it, it's just a NATO troony fantasising
He fled to Israel with his wife and is hiding in a suburb somewhere he will never be found.
He works for FSB, dude.
Because he is an fsb mouthpiece. They need at least someone to tune down uncontrollable copium propaganda, so he'll be doin.
He talks a lot, so it isn't that noticeable, but if you look in to the roots of what's he saying you'll find a lot of bullshit as well.
This. Vatniks are moronic and even the FSB knows that. So they have this mouthpiece calm them down with their doomposting so when they lose they can at least say “we’ll the special operation brought Ukraine to 2013 borders but at least we Denazifiednthem and destroyed half their country/economy” that’s good enough pile of shit for the Vatniks to eat just so they don’t have to lift a finger and overthrow their moronic senile government. These morons make Biden look young.
Girkin is a big safety valve, simultaneously going, "We're going to lose!" but also "We're going to lose because we're not being hardcore enough!".
He caters to two separate audiences.
He just keeps people on their toes, its good to have a devils advocate to remain sober. People are ridiculously optimistic in Russia. But in reality its not even a quarter as bad as he says.
He is mad because he cannot participate and has been pushed out of leadership and hence these shitposts. Nobody takes him seriously these days when its clear how hard AFU is getting fricked
>Nobody takes him seriously these days when its clear how hard AFU is getting fricked
post moskva
post kyiv
post internal kia/mia counts
post stalemate
This is not like Defensive War od 1939 was at the beginning, Pomorze was free at least untill 17.09.1939, Armia Pomorze and Poznan was retreating and germans had no idea where it was untlil Bzura couneroffensive caught them by surprise. Also there was push from Eastern Prussia, not Polish push TO Eastern Prussia (it was Wizna battle).
>But in reality its not even a quarter as bad as he says.
It's worse.
Stelkov in the end is still optimistic and thinks that a mobilization will solve many of current russia issues
Has Girkin even mentioned the inevitability of Ukrainian Insurgency? It doesn't seem to factor into his big brain thoughts.
And all the mobilization in the world doesn't count for shit if you can't equip said forces.
There will be no insurgency. First off hohols are quite similar culturally. Second, 2-3 million russians will be resettled there with rights to bear arms, these people will be the first to react to signs of trouble by protecting their homes with military force. The militias will put the boot on any troublemakers fast. Third, the troublemakers (the "nazis") will be physically removed. Russia doesn't do the "hearts-and-minds" idiotic shit, it builds nations from scratch. In 20-30 years Ukrainians will again enthusiastically be part of the Soviet Union.
>There will be no insurgency
Dude it's already started.
>hohols are quite similar culturally
Jesus you sound exactly like the cumcatchers who said Ukraine would never take up arms against their Russian brothers and everyone would party and hug them when they burned down their cities and raped their children. 30,000 dead orcs could tell you that wasn't true, but naturally their masters tell you none of them actually died and they're just went missing.
>2-3 million russians will be resettled there
You just admitted this is a campaign of genocide. Hate to break it to you, but your enemies also know what that means and unfortunately for you being murdered en masse and having your culture, language, and history destroyed utterly is something even complete cowards will fight against. Doesn't matter how many cities you destroy. Every human being who isn't an utter traitor will be part of the insurgency. Every one.
>with rights to bear arms
They don't have that right in Russia, they won't be granted that right elsewhere. Your monkey fricker tsar made damn sure of that and he is more afraid of his own people murdering him than anything.
>put the boot on any troublemakers
A bunch of churkas who have never seen paved roads backed up with donbabwan drunks whose fondest memories of Russian rule is that they got to watch their comrades herded into mass wave attacks by their "Russian brothers" and executed by Chechen tick tockers for talking back or getting wounded. Truly the most reliable garrison force ever. No way they'll ever turn on their masters or be challenged by a population that despises them and outnumbers them many times over.
If Ukrainians in the occupied territories are going to be exterminated, the only choice is to kill the Russian invaders first.
The easiest way to end this war is set all the Eastern Ukraine gas supplies on fire, and destroy all the infrastructure.
No Russian is going to fight to capture a frickton of NOTHING. And only the West has the economic might to rebuild such destroyed material and put out the fires.
You underestimate R*ssian moronation.
Russian occupation forces will die for nothing, killed either by Ukrainian troops or insurgents.
Again, that is happening already.
>2-3 million russians will be resettled there
And where will they get those russians?
Russia has huge issues with demographics and that's a huge project. They won't be able to magically whip up 2-3 million young russians from godknowshwere.
You were saying?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/24/world/europe/ukraine-russia-kherson-politician-killed.html
Because russian bureucratic systems are moronic, remember when they purged their upper class? One of them got wind of that, and promptly broke into some shop to get himself arrested for 4 years. Didn´t get gulaged or anything cuz he already was in the system as imprisoned.
Same with Girkin, they can´t do shit to him because he´s not going
>we should war less
but instead
>we should wage war harder
He's FSB, that's why.
As long as he doesn't drop Putins name and blame everything failing directly on him he is going to be fine. Critisism is allowed in Russia believe it or not, as long as you avoid involving the manlet in that critisism
>How the FRICK can Putin admit the Russian invasion forces are STILL badly short on manpower now?
>Random capitalized is HECKIN valid
Because the Russians basically marched in with tank columns and no real infantry. That's why they've been crutching DNR/LNR 2nd rate militia and setting what is basically their (Russian) reserves as defensive units. But this should also look bad for Ukraine when they are (slowly) losing advantageous defensive ground to literal mooks whos military training consists of living on the frontline longer than the others.
>Which means....no General Mobilization for Russia.
You think they care about any of the other points or need a "valid" reason?
Problem for Russia is that they're running out of Separatist fools to send out for slaughter. Also sooner or later, the cannon fodder will finally figure out they're just pawns to die.
Ukraine, on the other hand, isn't fighting "a special military operation". It's fighting a war and it will raise all the manpower necessary, without any pretensions of "oh it's not a war".
Yes Russia can push the Ukrainians back, but their offensive power is draining since the Russians aren't properly reinforcing their forces.
Sooner or later it's either going to result in either treaties pushing the clock back to 2014 or mobilization because nobody is differentiating what they are doing from "War" anyways.
Then Putin better get with the fricking program and do that whole "peace with honor" bullshit, before Ukraine beats Russia to a pulp with a tire iron.
Run from this Vietnam faster than Nixon.
>Then Putin better get with the fricking program and do that whole "peace with honor" bullshit,
>before Ukraine beats Russia to a pulp with a tire iron.
It's this kind of random kneejerk shit that destroys discussion.
Lol. Asking the winner to roll back his victories doesn't really work in the real world anon.
>withdrawal
>regrouping
>feint
>winner to roll back his victories
Uuh oh Mr Putin eehm could you please roll back your victories from Chernihiv? Sorry, sorry, I know, but our stray dogs are too fat to walk. Thank you!
>took territory the size of italy
>Meanwhile 2 fronts collapsed
>took territory the size of italy
not even close
They controlled half of that before the war anyway.
Russia has Taken an area of Ukraine Larger than China despite being outnumbered 2.46445e5 to one.
So maybe 2/3rds of italy if your rounding up? Lol
>m-muh km2
kek. So why isnt Russia a world power, or did it need just a bit more land for it to become such ?
Even calling you white India would be an insult, as they are more likely to obtain a world superpower status than vatnigs.
India is going to be a superpower by 2030.
Russia? Not so much.
Good morning ser, India needs 10 more years. India will be a superpower by 2030, not 2020 you bloody basterd Pak benchod
*superpooper
Look at how pathetic Russian gear is. Jfc get it together you buttholes.
They seem to be doing just fine with it.
>Comfy log to sleep on
>Igor has startet a nice cooking-fire, thanks Igor
>A nice sandbox where i can chill later.
>Ukraine looks like a nice time
Quite a disturbing lack of pallets once again.
Do we live in the same fricking planet ? Ukraine can’t even take back Kherson atm. And they haven’t been able to take back the donbass for 8 years
you aren't living on the same planet, you are mentally ill and need medicine
I think the Ukie triumphalism is premature, but they havent been able to retake the Donbas for the past 8 years because they only started getting assloads of money and weapons from the West since this past February. Again, I think Russia might win the war and IMO the West hasn't sent enough to give the hohols a decisive victory, but they have received enough support to easily turn this into a Vietnam for Russia, or more specifically a redux of their Afghan war.
...and the Afghan War worked out sooooo wellll for the Soviet Union.
it's been 7 years of ceasefire, the map more or less crystalized after 2015
much like any other occupation war, it's bouts of fighting with silence inbetween
unironically killing off the traitors seem to be the goal of both Ukraine and Russia, who throw the separatists into the meatgrinder at every opportunity
I think it makes perfect sense for Ukraine but it's strange for Russia to continue it (intended to soften the difficulties of annexation by killing independence-seekers) despite needing desperately a steady supply of grunts to complete their dwindling BTGs, which the separatists would serve great as
At this point both Ukraine and Russia hate the Separatists, Ukraine for being Separatists, Russia because the separatists were incompetent frick ups who failed so bad Russia committed to this costly invasion. Much like how Germany ultimately realized that their backing of Soviet Separatists only shot them in the foot because they were just idiots who jobbed to the allies.
>Russia + separatists can’t beat Ukraine
>thinks Russia expected separatists alone to beat Ukraine
>thinks the separatists =/= Russia
Wat
All Russia wants from the Donbass is the oil and gas. Doesn't matter how many separatists live there as long as the oligarchs keep Ukrainians from becoming competitors in the oil game
Except Ukraine still has massive oil and gas fields west of Kharkov that Russia isn't going to be able to take.
There's also the oil fields in west Ukraine that the West is going to tap ASAP the moment the war ends.
Ukraine is going to become competitors and there's nothing Russia will be able to do about it.
Especially since Russia just alienated their number one customers.
Of course they can take it. After Donbass collapses, they will annex Odessa. After that they will sue for peace, and Ukraine probably will keep on fighting. So they might take Kharkov gas and oil.
They are still selling to Europe, and their friends China and India are ever bigger customers
>they will annex Odessa
Russia can't even maintain presence in the Black Sea any more that they've literally resorted to mining the sea to prevent the supply ships picking up the grain. If Russia thinks Mariupol was hard, Odessa is going to kill tens of thousands of Russians even if they don't do a dollar store D-Day. It'd make Dieppe look like a fricking great success.
Russia is day, what, 130 into a 2 day special military operation?
Is there anything funnier than vatBlack folk becoming increasingly delusional as the failures of Snow Nigeria keep growing in number?
The Odessa cope is a give away that they're a /misc/ loser trying to Troll /k/
Not even the honest vatniks are falling back to the Odessa delusion anymore.
Okay, and what happens when Europe stops buy the oil completely? China and India will know they have Russia by the balls since NOBODY will want or need to buy that amount of oil in terms of volume so China and India can basically keep demanding lower and lower prices.
Russia hasn't restarted mining industry in DPR and LRP for nearly ten years now, reportedly, there were even mentions of how increasing amount of mine shafts starts to get flooded/collapsed. Plus lack of gas is never going to be the concern for RF, from now on issue will lie in lack of customers and being cut off from technology for exploatation and whole industry built around it (gas liquifiers for instance). Russia already has big surplus of gas and il that they are literally just burning down because building infrastructure to store surplus takes time and even if they committed to it, it'd only cover fraction of it.
Economic value of DPR and LPR is null, Russians stole all there is to steal there, all sane people in productive age left one way or the other, rest is either not surviving it or elderly.
You should try mining under artillery fire yourself
Yes I know all about these 6 gorillions of poor russian speakers killed in Donbass, literal holocaust happening under OSCE's and general public's noses, with literally Somme-tier artillery shelling happening every day since 2014.
These poor Donbabweans!
>Ukraine doesn't have enough shells to fight the Russians
>But Ukraine somehow had enough shells to shell the Donbass 24/7 for 8 years
Pick one gay.
Donbass wasn't useless because of Ukrainian shelling, Donbass was useless because chimps were in charge of it, like most shitty People's republics
Ever since that one time Ukraine nearly crushed the Donbass rebels only for group of Russian BTGs to show up and surround them and shoot them all despite a ceasefire and an offer of retreat Ukraine made no efforts to actually take back Rebel territory.
So it's been 7 years of nothing, just occasionally one side tries to take a firing position so they can have better aim for the once a month mortar barrage.
>before Ukraine beats Russia to a pulp
If Russia declared an actual war Ukraine wouldn't last 6 months. Conscripts would overwhelm defenders as they run out of bullets.
It’s not going back to 2014 at all.
Explain? Sauces cited will be required.
>they are (slowly) losing advantageous defensive ground to literal mooks whos military training consists of living on the frontline longer than the others.
Not exactly. RF forces still exist, and have a lot of firepower. You’re mistaken, if you think that Russia advances by throwing LDPR conscripts on Ukrainians
>That's why they've been crutching DNR/LNR 2nd rate militia and setting what is basically their (Russian) reserves as defensive units
It's because the vdv got smashed in the first day of the war, they're not holding their real soldiers back because they're in reserve, they're holding them back because they're not at full strength. Why do you think they're offering conscripts a big pay cheque if they go pro for a year? Russia is having manpower shortages, they're just coping.
Hey fellas, if an enemy reduces a city you control into uninhabitable rubble and routs your forces from it, does that really count as a win for the enemy?
I'm thinking the real loser of the battle here is Russia for having soldiers that don't even have socks sometimes.
Go hang out with Russia if you love it so much. They'd be thrilled to have you.
Finally, a good Russian.
No such thing
Go hang out with ukraine if you love it so much. They need all the fresh meat they can get.
>>Hey fellas, if an enemy reduces a city you control into uninhabitable rubble and routs your forces from it, does that really count as a win for the enemy?
The azovastal steel plant was one of a kind and one of the only few positive things the soviet union left anywhere, in annexing a slice of ukraine the russians left the plant in complete ruins and now they cannot even rebuild it or even make use of any of its industrial capabilities.
That's a net loss in my book.
>one of a kind and one of the only few positive things the soviet union left anywhere
It's not the steel plants they're after. It's the natural gas reserves than threaten Russia's monopoly on European energy.
It kinda puts the lie to their claim of liberation when they have to pummel all Ukrainian cities to ruins to capture them. Even Natalia was horrified already
They don't even use socks, they use foot wraps. They literally wrap rags around their feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footwraps
They supposedly started phasing them out in favor of socks in 2013 but most conscripts are getting wraps if anything.
Ukraine can talk all they want about how they're fighting to "Take back Donbass" and how they're going to "Push the Russians to the border, but this is actually just a Ukrainian scorched earth operation.
Ukraine isn't trying to save these regions, they're forcing Russia to fight for every square inch of this territory in order to get Russia to destroy it for them.
Ukraine is already saying it's going to take over 10 years to clear out all the landmines and UXO in other parts of the country, imagine how many mortar shells, cluster munitions, mines, grenades, artillery shells, and various military debris is going to fill every field, town, and ruin in the Dontesk region.
By the end of this war East Ukraine will be unihabitable.
So if and when Ukraine decides to give up the eastern part of the country, Russia will be left with a massive pile or rubble and death with a population decimated because Russia used them as cannon fodder.
And Russia's not going to be easily able to convince a bunch of Russian immigrants to move in and clear all the debris away.
They rebuilt Grozny twice in just over a decade and now it's one of the nicer cities in Russia. They'll clean up the donbass and have Russian settlers in 10 years no problem. I think the scorched earth claim is a little bit of a cope.
>Ukraine isn't trying to save these regions, they're forcing Russia to fight for every square inch of this territory in order to get Russia to destroy it for them.
They're doing that because as they say possession is 9/10ths of the law, they don't want the eventual end of the war to be negotiating over more of their own territory.
By that logic, the French conquered Russia. They got all the way to fricking Moscow.
Conquering territory means nothing if you cannot hold it for long. Russia has pissed off everyone in the territories it occupies, and it cannot spare the MANPOWER to properly patrol them.
The more territory the Russians grab, the more manpower they lose and the more manpower they need to HOLD the occupied areas.
You see the paradox here right? The more Russians take, the more manpower they need to hold what they've taken. But politically, it becomes more and more impossible to declare a general mobilisation to shore up those gains.
uh... ok take that up with Ukraine then?
it's a war of attrition, it's all about exhausting the enemy now
It isn't but the Russians like to pretend it is while getting closer to opening up stockpiles last used in 1952
>Russia has effectively destroyed Severodonetsk as a location.
>Ukraine's military has largely escaped
>Russia has lost
LOL if you run away in panic and disarray it means you won1! Epic
This is your mind on reddit
if you leave, you win
Don't you Russians have ANY concept of Phyrric Victory?
All I see is a lot of Russians dying to capture a ruined pile of rubble, effectively losing a lot of their offensive power.
Wouldn't be surprised to find out that they don't teach who Pyrrhus is in Russian military academies.
Doesn't shock me. He's incredibly instructive to me, and it's pretty clear the Ukrainians took his lessons to heart.
Russia is losing a ton of manpower to essentially capture piles of rubble. And occupations take even more manpower.
Ukrainians need to begin seriously killing Russians even in the areas they hold. It will trap a sizeable number of Russians in place fighting insurgents.
The Ukrainians won exactly what they needed.
Time.
Look, even if the "special operation" is successful, even if the Russians manage to secure the oil and gas reserves, remove the Ukraine government, destroy their millitary, and control the remaining population with a combination of brute force and cultural genocide - even if they manage to do all that, they'll still have lost, because they'll still be Russian. And I'm only half kidding here...
nice cope bro
It's not even that big of a pile of rubble. Sev barely tops 100,000 pop.
>They've captured South Bend, Indiana
>Better fricking roll over!
Or by relative size
>They've taken Tucson!
Severodonetsk has very little strategic importance in the grand scheme of things, i think the ukis wanted to do more with the battle, but they seem to have blunted the russian assault quite a bit, tough to a high cost to themselves as well, who knows if itll be enough
on practical terms, the city has little value for ukraine, and for russia it only has propaganda value, the fact they lost so much taking such a small city is a complete joke however, at this point it feels every other city the ruskies try to take becomes another Battle of Grozny, first it was Mariupol, now Severodonetsk
they are victories, but at a completely unsustainable cost
The Ukrainians sent a clear message to the West.
>"Even with the full might of the Russian military brought to bear on us, we still held them back for a considerable amount of time. Now send us more fricking weapons and we'll do a lot more damage next time."
>Severodonetsk
Yeah, people try to hype this up like its some sort of battle for Ukraine future but its really not. If anything its just another Russian failure. They couldn't push into Ukie territory because the ukies blew up their logistics, and now they can't even take one shitty city for months even though they got a 10:1 artillery advantage. Its a fricking embarrassment.
Russia threw the biggest concentration of force it can muster at Ukraine in one spot and STILL it struggled badly.
The only message we should take from Severodonetsk is that the Ukrainians can Fricking Fight, and Russians are weaker than we thought.
For frick's sake, the Ukrainians left in good order.
That's a politician for you. But from a MILITARY standpoint, a medium-sized town reduced to fricking rubble is worthless to the Russian forces.
And from a standpoint of politics? Russia has made it harder to go General Mobilisation because they've blown this Phyrric Victory way out of proportion.
Plus i think i've seen three or more videos od russian youth destroying russian mobilising center's making it clear that their population is against general mobilisation.
Typical motivational bullshit.
>EVERYTHING depends on your actions here soldier!
Well, a quick look at the map tells us that it doesn't, severodonetsk is a minor town that just happens to be where the russians push hardest and the ukr military decided to make a stand.
And still the Russians struggled to take it, lol.
If you weren't dropped as a baby you'd understand that as the Leader of the country he have to say "Battle of X will seal the fate of Ukraine".
First it was Sumy, then Karkhov, then Gostomel, then Irpin, then Mariupol, then Nikolaev, then Izyum etc...
Russia took some, Ukraine took back others, some were stalemates.
I mean if your president was saying "Nah bro, it's ok, we don't really need to defend our territory" people would keep fighting. He is in his role, spinning some info and psy warfare.
That said the real fate of Ukraine is in Krivoy Rog and Kremenchuk. Both are logistical and industrial hubs paramount to move troops and equipment.
Kiev did decide the fate of ukraine, and it is being a western state showing up russia for being the corrupt degenerate shithole it is. The only thing left to decide is how much of ukraine will be part of it.
>That said the real fate of Ukraine is in Krivoy Rog and Kremenchuk.
Vatnigs are never getting anywhere close to either city LMAO.
1 month ago: "The fate of eastern Ukraine is being decided in Severodonetsk" - Zelenskyy. https://thehill.com/policy/international/3517118-zelensky-fate-of-eastern-ukraine-being-decided-in-severodonetsk/
Now: We don't need Severodonetsk, it's an unimportant small town anyway.
a-anon, did you think that meant "Ukraine will lose if we lost severdonesk"? Didn't you think about the infinite posibilities it meant? getting more time? Slowling the Russian offensive? Inflicting enough damage to stop the russian advances?
It's all you vatBlack folk understand battle win or battle lost?
Anyways, have a nice 122th day of your 3 day invasion!
It's honestly funny to see vatBlack folk justify their floundering attempts at taking a region so close to their own body.
Honestly, if I was a r*ssoid, I'd be a little worried about the state of my country's military. The dear leader just showed the entire world that Russia is up for grabs.
Pretty much they wanted the Russians to throw bodies into the meat grinder that was severedonuts. It worked for the most part. They killed like 5-8 BTG's while holding the city and the surrounding areas.
>severedonuts
>severaldonuts
There I fixed it for you
Sever deez nuts
Wow, it's almost as if a wartime head of state exaggerated the situation to get more weaponry.
Putin's convoy arrived in the Kremlin at 23:00 local time 2 hours ago, apparently very urgently given the time and speed of the convoy. What happened?
Best guess? His medical condition has badly declined.
Lmao what is this?
One of R*ssia's bizarre nationalistic pulp fiction novels, presumably. They are wack.
>Ukraine war: 80% of troops killed or injured in elite military unit, says commander
It's over, u/k/rop sisters.
Guys, we know ukraine just lost some ground right, but maybe its not really a loss since Russia already blew everything up. Haha, Russia sucks at war yet again.
Losing the city sucks for Ukraine because as of yet they've shown no ability to take a city back from the Russians. Given the stakes involved forcing the Russians to bleed manpower and equipment might be beneficial as it might stop them from pushing farther, but there's no way this is an unqualified win for Ukraine.
Even if strategically necessary, losing territory is a negative. If the Ukrainians could have held onto it, they would have. They have less to negotiate with, at a minimum. Anything else is cope.
Russia holding territory does not mean they'll keep it. Holding territory means MANPOWER. And Ukraine can keep on killing those Russian personnel essentially trapped in hostile territory.
The sooner Ukraine ramps up Insurgency, the better.
>Globohomosexual glowBlack person / israelite homosexual detected.
Gulaghomosexual FSB frickslave / irrelevant serf detected.
azov is literally funded by a israeli man
>Takes WEEKS to conquer a medium sized town
>Meanwhile a similar sized town still held by ukrainians is just across the river
It's unclear how much personell and equipment either side lost - but in terms of territory the changes are minuscule. Lysychansk included there are four more of such towns on the way to dnipro. So no, this means next to nothing really.
Yeah this is pretty bad for Russia's image.
>"Yes we're so big and bad, we struggle for weeks just to capture ONE medium-sized town even though we had a massive artillery advantage and moved a frickton of raw military force into one spot."
The more damage they take like this, the more overextended Russia will become overall. They're losing so much manpower and equipment in one front, the others are becoming exposed.
And Dnipro/Zaporozhia have each at least 2-3 industrial complexes the size of Azovstal. Plus Dnipro as the heart of nuclear missile production has a terrifying underground bunker system and an underground metro complex.
Zaporizhia have those massive factories, the Lenin Dam make to withstand nuclear strikes and the Korbreastsa Island in the middle of the river.
Even if Russia make it to there in a year or so they'd need 600k-1M to mount such an offensive.
They should stock up on supplies.
Russia won't have HALF that by the time they even get halfway there, lol.
1. When they took Mariupol, the Russians opted to just starve and bomb the Ukrainians trapped in Azovstal. No water. No food. No medical supplies. Don't let the civilians leave so they burn through even more of your supplies. Have some people too deeply entrenched like ticks? Shake and bake em with some HE and WP. Static defense is a fricking death trap.
2. Anything underground can be flooded and sapped. Why waste blood when you can just drown people by diverting the waters of the Dneipr. Because again, static defense is death.
Severodonetsk and soon Lysychansk are attempts to entrap, encircle, and destroy a large part of the UAF East. Once the Ukrainians are forced from Lysychansk, they are going to have to flee across flat terrain to the Dneipr with their backs exposed to Russian artillery and CAS. The Ukrainians fortified Severodonetsk for weeks if not months as their eastern stronghold and got BTFO.
And how badly did the Russians lose in terms of their attacking manpower and equipment?
You'll have to tell me since you are saying this is a Pyrrhic victory but the Ukrainian war plan doesn't seem rational. Usually you don't concentrate your forces to hold a position that will inevitably be lost unless it's a rearguard action to provide cover for a larger retreat or bait for action elsewhere so unless we're gonna a massive Ukrainian offensive ACROSS the Dneipr or the Ukrainians report that they've managed to pull out the bulk of their troops out of Donetsk safely, this shit was an enormous waste of blood and resources for Ukrainian as well as Russia.
>Usually you don't concentrate your forces to hold a position that will inevitably be lost
Unless you're trying to fight a defensive war of attrition where you make your enemy pay for every inch of ground with as much blood and treasure as humanly possible. Why give up a city without a fight when it's the best possible defensive terrain to fight in and drain Russian resources? I'm sure the Ukrainians lost a good amount themselves but the longer this war goes on the worse it is for Russia.
Ukrainians have western weapons and gear flowing in, and raising new units.
Russia is running out of shit to fight with, and they can't just go, "Oh wait, we're actually losing! We need a General Mobilisation immediately!". They're going to run their invasion forces into the ground, until they have nothing left to fight with.
>Why give up a city without a fight when it's the best possible defensive terrain to fight in and drain Russian resources?
Because soldiers don't appreciate dying for no reason. The crackdowns on military aged males trying to flee Ukraine and people with absolutely no combat training being sent to the frontline speaks to Ukraine's own manpower problems. "Draining resources" is a dumb strategy when the Russian arsenal and military is far larger than Ukraine's.
>I'm sure the Ukrainians lost a good amount themselves but the longer this war goes on the worse it is for Russia.
The longer this war goes on, the WORSE it gets for Ukraine because the globalist leaders who are supporting this war are facing immense domestic problems from the sanctions regime. Macron's party just lost the parliamentary majority to the far left and far right parties who are both opposed to the war. Germany is rationing gas right now in preparation for zero supply come winter and are entering a recession. Inflation is so bad in Europe the ECB has had to surprise hike. The threat of credit fragmentation in Europe has never been higher. Biden is getting absolutely slaughtered at the polls and key Democrats are distancing themselves from his administration. The United States, the European Union, and the United Kingdom are all about to plunge into recession. Meanwhile, Putin is swimming in cash from >$100/bbl oil prices. It is getting harder and harder for Western leaders to justify to their people the sanctions regime against Russia.
So simply begin an insurgency behind Russia's lines and hit them from both directions: front AND behind.
Russia has paradoxically killed a lot of its own supporters by sending them to fricking die as cannon fodder, lol.
>The crackdowns on military aged males trying to flee Ukraine
That happened right off the bat it doesn't say anything about their "manpower problems".
>and people with absolutely no combat training being sent to the frontline
Source? Or are you talking about the start of the war again?
>The United States, the European Union, and the United Kingdom are all about to plunge into recession.
Come on now really? You really think the West is about to collapse because of the sanctions and Russia is doing just fine? Pretty much all the political and economic hiccups you described are a result of the lingering effects of the pandemic which Russia also has to deal with on top of everything else. If you think the West has it worse than Russia economically or politically you are moronic or a shill.
>Because soldiers don't appreciate dying for no reason.
Their wives and sisters being raped by Russians, their resources going to Russian oligarchs, their local leaders executed and replaced with Russian leaders, their language and culture erased and replaced with faux Russian Nationalist culture?
That's not worth fighting for?
The Ukrainian plan was to buy time and weaken the Russian capacity to actually continue the offensive.
And now the Russians have their prize: a pile of worthless rubble and a "victory" that makes it politically impossible to actually do what they need to do to win: General Mobilisation.
And who is going to tell Putin he's losing, lol? Oh right, that's suicide. No general mobilisation is coming to bail out the weakening invasion forces Vatnik.
>who is going to tell Putin he's losing
Someone who has delusions, I'd imagine. Russia has the Donbass, all they have to do is claim victory sit tight whilst Ukraine bashes their head against Russian forces giving Putin an out to call it a war of Ukrainian Aggression against the independent Donbass nations.
>weakening invasion forces
Implying the defenders aren't also weakening are we?
>Vatnik
I want Russia to lose, I'm just not delusional. People like you are killing any rational discussion with your blatant partisan coping.
Doesn't work like that. Ukraine will simply refuse to surrender, and insurgents will blow up Russian after Russian after Russian INSIDE the territories you supposedly control.
You are thinking only in conventional military terms but fighting fair is for idiots. Insurgents should plant bombs in the Russian officers' bedrooms.
Seriously, the more insurgency rises against Russia, the more resources and manpower get tied down oppressing the people. And the LESS Russia can spare to advance.
>all they have to do is claim victory sit tight whilst Ukraine bashes their head against Russian forces giving Putin an out to call it a war of Ukrainian Aggression against the independent Donbass nations.
Ah yes spend massive amounts of money and manpower to defend and occupy depopulated land and cities of rubble while sections rape your economy. For as long as the West feels like it. Truly sounds like "victory". This is also the best case scenario at this point too which is extra grim.
Not to mention the West can arm and train the insurgents directly, turning Eastern Ukraine into an endless chorus of bombs and IEDs.
ALL invaders are Legitimate Targets.
>yes spend massive amounts of money and manpower to defend
They don't need to defend once they have a "legitimate" claim to declare war
>depopulated land and cities of rubble
Are you seriously that moronic to think the war is over fricking clay?
>while sections rape your economy. For as long as the West feels like it
I can't tell if you're coping or trolling.
>the West can arm and train the insurgents directly
What insurgents? The population of the donbass is pro separatism/Russia.
Which is why a pro-Russian politician is now a corpse.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/24/world/europe/ukraine-russia-kherson-politician-killed.html
If the insurgency had any real backing we'd literally never hear the end of it.
>I've listened to Russian media aplenty threatening me with NUCLEAR war.
So? They've done the same to me, it doesn't alter the facts of reality.
Dude the insurgency has already begun.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/world/europe/occupied-ukraine-guerrilla-attacks.html
I've listened to Russian media aplenty threatening me with NUCLEAR war.
>They don't need to defend once they have a "legitimate" claim to declare war
Ah yes I'm sure the Ukrainians will surrender and give up as soon as they see the fake refendum results.
>Are you seriously that moronic to think the war is over fricking clay?
Then what was it about? If you say natural gas or oil my sides will die and go to heaven.
>I can't tell if you're coping or trolling.
Why would I be? The sanctions and old weapons shipments barely affect them and are crippling one of their main rivals. Why would they stop?
>The population of the donbass is pro separatism/Russia.
Wait are YOU trolling?
You're actually legitimately moronic so let me spell this out for you as plainly as humanly possible.
>Russia claims victory and announces and end to the "Special Military Operation"
>Ukraine obviously keeps fighting
>Russia then says that the Ukrainians are attack their allies and uses this to declare an actual war
>Russia can now legally send in the conscripts
>Russia wins by Christmas
>"N-no the war isn't over Ukraine threatening Russia's position as the number 1 gas supplier to Europe. It's about muh clay and muh volk!!"
Utterly fricking delusional.
You're moronic if you think Russia is a legalistic country where they are missing only a loophole to declare war on Ukraine with full conscription when Ukies already bombed Russia proper on several occasions.
>Russia then says that the Ukrainians are attack their allies and uses this to declare an actual war
They can do this right now. Donbabwe and luganda are already officially recognized by the RF already.
>Russia then says that the Ukrainians are attack their allies and uses this to declare an actual war
Then why didn't he do that in the first place? That's the same logic he used to enact the "Special Military Operation". Why would another couple fake refendums and countries make conscription and war more popular? After nearly half a year of economic hardship and brutal military action I'm sure the Russians will love him starting another war on an even bigger scale. You're a political genius.
Putin did not prepare his people for a LONG war. He lied to them, lol. And now he's trapped in his own web of lies.
So why are the Russians so fricking hesitant to do Full Mobilisation, lol?
You're just making excuses.
>Russia is a rational actor
this guy even looks like Rasputin.
>and uses this to declare an actual war
And makes it's entire petrol infrastructure and industry a target for Ukraine.
Correct. A full-scale war means ALL of Russia is a legit target for Ukraine, and it should wipe its oil industry off the face of the map.
Hit Russia exactly where it hurts: their wallet.
As soon as the gas is secured, you bet yourself, the West is gonna tell Ukraine hitting the pipes is fair game, which is gonna be the first thing they do.
If Russia declares full war on Ukraine, we're going to gleefully tell Ukraine exactly what targets to fire on.
Russia knows this all too well. Ukraine is our proxy, but in a way far superior to Russia's use of the Seperatists (which it directly commands to be just cannon fodder).
>West is gonna tell Ukraine hitting the pipes is fair game, which is gonna be the first thing they do
I'm sure they will.
Ukrainian oligarchs just hate getting money for gas transit.
Meanwhile in real life Ukraine is asking Russia to increase the transit volume sent to Europe through Ukrainian pipes:
https://www.investing.com/news/commodities-news/russia-tightens-eu-gas-grip-as-it-rejects-extra-ukraine-transit-2838875
The poor Ukranian oligarchs surely have recognized their position by now.
No, they are doing it right now, even as the profits from selling gas go to fund Russian invasion.
The news are barely a week old.
yo got to diversify yo revenue streams homie
This shit is Ukraine calling Russia´s bluff in regards to them throttling throughput through north stream
>Very sad my western brothers we can´t send you oil because your sanctions stopped north stream maintenance
>This is not political tho xaxaxa
>How about routing it through ukraine instead
>No, we won´t
Everything is already a legit target for Ukraine. They are literally under attack by them. Do you really think they give a shit how public opinion in Russia or western countries towards such attacks is? If they can hit them hard on their own soil they will do it. Main problem is their lack of equipment. They need everything at the front right now
Are the Russians prepared to declare war on the entire people of said territory? The Insurgency is only going to ramp up as word of Russian brutality spreads.
They broke a 70-year old's SPINE.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3514895-retired-journalist-luckily-escapes-kherson-after-russians-break-her-spine-for-refusing-to-leave-behind-her-passport.html
>totally literally broke her spine for real
>she's walking
Let me guess, she got better.
Any year now R*ssians are gonna win this war. Two days to Warsaw!
Russians win the way Phyrrus of Epirrus did, lol. Phyrically.
What "Reddit narratives"? This is literally quoting your favorite domdaddy israelitetin who claimed he could have troops in Warsaw within two days. By now we understand he probably meant that as "dead troops (VDV without parachutes) in Warsaw in two days".
What cope? The only cope here is how quickly R*ssians went from "we'll steamroll Ukraine in a couple of hours" to "Ukraine is the 3rd strongest army in the world, besting them requires an effort on par with the Great Patriotic War". R*ssia has embarrassed itself beyond belief in this 'Special Military Operation'. That it's now looking like they won't even manage to conquer the Donbas within half a year, parts of which they already controlled since 2014 to boot, just boggles the mind.
R*ssia and by extension its army are decrepit, dysfunctional and utterly corrupt garbage heaps that can rival the worst Africa has to offer. No wonder it's called Snow Nigeria ... except that's actually an insult to Nigeria.
What is it with you "people" and always resorting to posting about trannies/gays when you get flustered?
Anon, please understand, they have literally nothing else.
Let me ask you this Vatnik.
How the frick are you going to HOLD the shit you're seizing? It's simple logic.
You need enough manpower to take stuff from Ukraine. BUT, you also then have to commit that much more manpower to OCCUPYING it. The more you seize, the more manpower you require to continue your occupation and the less you'll have to continue conquering shit with.
But here's where it gets really fun. The more you seize, the more poliitically impossible it becomes for you to turn around and say, "I fricking lied to the Russian people. We're doing badly and we do not have enough forces to occupy Ukraine. We need a general mobilisation to shore up our gains."
If you were going to occupy territory and keep getting insurgents and literally did not give a frick, there would be several options:
1. Mass deportation of Ukrainians to somewhere stupid far away from Ukraine.
2. Concentration / gulags.
3. Population and property liquidation. Just tell your soldiers they can seize all the property they want if they drive the Ukrainians who live there out of there.
4. Hostages and cultural genocide. Seize the children and brainwash them as Russians and integrate them into the state apparatus.
There's tons of solutions to insurgents. The west just never uses them because of muh liberal democracy.
the best solution however, is "hearts and minds" and good PR.
Ah, yes, since that worked so well in Chechn- ... oh, no, wait, they're getting billions each year in 'aid'. What's it called again when one war party pays another after the war's over? Riiight, "reparations".
So a lot of brutal oppression? Well then, the only option for the Ukrainian people is to kill them first or die trying.
Easiest choice in the world.
A bunch of thuggish conscripts who behave like vicious locusts are not going to win any PR in Ukraine. They steal and wreck everything, and rape even the senior citizens.
He's being facetious you knuckle dragging subhuman. "Hearts and Minds" has literally never worked. Stop mindlessly coping, you're shitting up the discussion. Go back to plebbit if you want to larp.
Russian state media makes its meaning plain.
No, anon.
Hearts and Minds always works and when it doesn't it means you did something wrong. Why does it work everywhere but in the middle east?
Clearly the PR people at the military simply have not figured out how to do a hearts and minds in that region.
>no rebuttal
Sasuga, moron-kun.
>K-keep k-koping tho', r-reddit.
>R*ssia is slowly winning
How does a R*ssian victory look like?
Do you think they're gonna try for Kyiv Offensive 2: VatBlack person Boogaloo? If not, how do they expect to hold their territories? It's not like they can unilaterally declare "OK, war's over now" and have Ukrainians agree to that. And given that they're isolated politically and economically (whereas Ukraine has Western backing) it's not like they can keep this up indefinitely. If anything the rouble:USD black market exchange rates are showing that shit is getting worse and worse for them by the day. Something's gotta give.
>Pro Russian civilians are staying just to get Smerche'd and Uragan'd (feat. CEP the size of the whole city)
Don't even need to commit war crimes to see those fricks die. An educational experience.
Can you elaborate on that? Or are you as clueless when it comes to that question as R*ssian leadership apparently is?
Ukraine continues to strike the heart of Russia's economy: its oil.
Ramp up the attacks. Burn Vatnik economy down to the ground.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/vi0h7j/in_russia_in_the_rostov_region_the/
So Russians didn't manage to create the cauldron they've been talking about for weeks?
They made a super tiny cauldron but they forgot to put the lid on it so when they finally closed it there was only a tiny puddle of Ukrainians at the bottom.
Yes.
>be me
>have shitty neighbor
>burn down shitty neighbors house
>no more shitty neighbor
im gonna ask this here since, i see nowhere else to ask
whats going on at Lysychansk? supposedly the russians are advancing towards it, i argue that, if the russians can be stoppped at Lysychansk, then the ukranians ultimately succeeded in granting a pyrrhic victory to the russians at Severodonetsk, and that battle chewed up russian troops so badly it effectively stopped the russian advance on that angle for who known how long
i argue we dont know the real outcome of the battle of Severodonetsk. until we know what ultimately happens to Lysychansk
>weapons