Is it true that soldiers more motivated by ideology have a lesser chance of getting PTSD? Like would some jihadi lunatic who thinks he's doing it for Allah cope better than some contract soldier?
Is it true that soldiers more motivated by ideology have a lesser chance of getting PTSD?
I think Western soldiers get PTSD because they're trained their entire lives prior to enlistment that all people are equal, all life has value, and that cultural relativity is absolute. Then they enter the military and get sent to somewhere like Afghanistan, where people are still living a medieval existence except for Kalashnikovs and Toyotas. They spend several years killing their fellow human beings, while learning that everything they were taught as children was a lie, and then they're sent home to a society where everyone still believes the lie. They get PTSD because it's the expected response from their home society, which abhors violence (but supports violence overseas to support their ideology). The soldier is left in this in between space, where they cannot be honest with others about their experience overseas and have no ideological framework to process what they did over there. So it fricks them up.
Yeah, it totally can't be the repeated and prolonged periods of mortal danger and the enormous associated stress response breaking you down. I mean nobody had his mind fricked over in the trenches of WW1. Nope, it's totally just that the normies aren't edgy enough.
I'm just speaking from experience.
Part of the equation is exposing troops to traumatic events. Every war in history has done that. The other part of the equation is how those troops are educated and trained. That has changed throughout the last fifty years.
You’re more likely to die or be severely injured in a preventable accident than by an enemy combatant.
so what?
Yes, but your rational knowledge of that does not translate to the instinct driven, reactive part of brain that we evolved with because it kept us alive.
Yeah, and those guys were treated like shit by those in charge and society as a whole, so that doesn't negate what he said Black person. Those men had absolutely zero ability to cope nor were they able to express themselves to their loved ones and families in any meaningful way. WW1 vets suffered in silence like many generations of warriors before them.
Ya bro the horrific stress and trauma of driving around sone village every once and awhile, fapping in Porto-potties and drinking rip-it’s.
PTSD is when you go through an extreme sudden change in stimuli and it alters your behavior in a way you have secyims of it way off. Your response to certain things has been rewired automatically.
If you are some Russia or Chinese or Indian and you see someone of a different color get shot, you don't really think much if it.
When an American sees that it's not normal. Russians see child get sold into prostitution that's normal Indians see children living in slums that's normal Chinese see slave camps and piles of covid victims bodies undocumented that's normal.
This is part of it, my dad had PTSD from Vietnam and said a similar thing. Plus being very religious had an effect also.
Dude the fact that some literal goat frickers can't do 2+2 does not mean that math is a lie. Similarly, the fact that people that sell their daughters for a crate of apples don't appreciate the value of life doesn't mean that life has no value. " Violence overseas"is not an expression of society s ideology (whatever you believe that to be) and is entirely unnecessary, same way in which, as a wise man once said: have you ever tried going along with your life without sucking any wieners?
Not him but what are you about? He's talking about culture shock; you're going on about ideology.
Very good and thoughtful answer anon.
Illiterate morons who missed the point
That could be part of it but then how do you account for the numerous accounts of PTSD going back as far as Mesopotamia? People lived much harder and brutal lives back then and we still have records of soldiers experiencing PTSD in those times.
I think it's a multifaceted problem. Your point on how it conflicts with an individual's moral compass is just one head on a hydra I think. Extended exposure to stress and fight/flight reactions, guilt from losing friends, disruptions in REM sleep (patrols/standing guard/night attacks), loss of that sense of purpose that warfare gives an impressionable young man when he comes home... I could go on.
Point is, organized warfare and it's shockwaves after the fact rewires your brain. Some people can handle it, some people have better support systems, some don't. Like cancer, I don't think we'll ever find a single one-size-fits-all "cure" for those afflicted because of how subjective it can be and how different everyone's mind is.
PTSD is simply survival instinct getting locked on and you are unable to switch it off to relax.
Its gotten worse and more common these days due to combat being random and unpredictable compared to being able to deliniate start and stop between battles.
The increasing lack of a front line in modern combat makes it worse so you spend entire deployments on alert for an attack at anytime from anywhere.
Also worse by the fact you can go home the next day so there is no seperation between home and war.
Animals will get the same thing if you punish them randomly for no reason. They will become always stressed always expecting it.
this is a facet of
so you’re right partially
Post traumatic stress is a common and extensively studied constellation of physiological and psychosocial manifestations of extended stress response. Stress has profound effects on human health and societies in a manner that is both dose-dependent and multi-system - for example, on the individual level, children with a history of abuse are statistically more likely to be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetimes, but the generational effects are even more profound - children and grandchildren of PTSD survivors have much higher incidence of psychiatric conditions like depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorder.
Personally, I don’t think the stark contrast between the attitude toward the sanctity of human life in civilian vs military life accounts for the range of emotional and physiological manifestations of PTSD I’ve both read about and experienced from patients firsthand - people’s description of PTSD manifesting can often be different but it seems far fetched to claim that transgressing cognitive mores around killing in western society are somehow more upsetting than the instinctual response to the immediacy of death in war
>We've gotten soft and our ancestors never got PTSD
>Sometime she driveth o'er a soldier's neck,
>And then dreams he of cutting foreign throats,
>Of breaches, ambuscadoes, Spanish blades,
>Of healths five-fathom deep; and then anon
>Drums in his ear, at which he starts and wakes,
>And being thus frighted swears a prayer or two
- Romeo and Juliet
Black person, people get PTSD because it's hard to watch your friends die in front of you. Nobody cares that they shot a bunch of mudslimes.
>have no ideological framework to process what they did over there
they volunteered to murder fellow humans for oil money, instead of just murdering other humans for freedom or some shit
in either case they are moronic murderers, having a mental breakdown like a little girl is least of their problems
Who says Taliban soldiers DON'T have PTSD? They just cope by raping young boys and girls.
Ok I’m so sick of this shit, how many people actually see combat? You mother frickers scream ptsd every time the vending machine is out of order in Guam. The frat culture, bullying, zero privacy, and way the military treats people like absolute dogshit probably contributes more than “oh I saw a poor brown person in Iraq”
Why is the cat smocking weed
Gatos love the catnip
It's licking the ice
wtf meth is not for kitties!
>meth
Dude its a bong.
Because 420 blaze it
Ideologically motivated soldiers don't get involved in pointless foreign wars of conquest and generally fight for their people so yeah.
my great grandfather fought on the east front and killed a shitload of slavs.
he slept like a baby
Have you considered the possibility that he was a psychopath?
No, they all have PTSD in some way or form. They just have different ways of dealing with it. The issue with western soldiers is mainly how they integrate back to normal society than the horrors of war itself.
PTSD doesn't have a single cause and is individual for each person, it all depends on your state of mind and how it processes traumatic events, taking a life is no different.
For example, I love cats and would be pretty upset if I killed one even accidentally or in self defense, however I hate flies and will eagerly kill all of them happily standing waist-deep in the fruits of my genocide, in short, if you've been conditioned to see your enemies as vermin then you probably won't be plagued by your conscience for killing them and may even enjoy it
>PTSD doesn't have a single cause
Sure it does—it's called "being a pussy"
An article I read in 2018 indicated that the leading theory on the cause of PTSD is how others treat you in relation to a traumatic event.
Traumatic events happen to everybody. They are any event that is seriously harmful on a psychological or physical level.
However it appears that when a harmful event is followed up with external pressures that single out the individual and do one of the following three things, it increases the likelihood the will not recover from it
1) undermine their coping mechanisms
2) decrease or devalue their self worth
3) normalize or suggest normalcy of trauma events
An ideological fighter, whether a Christian Crusader or a Islamic Jihadist, is more insulated against these three threats.
For threat 1, both types of fighter have been indoctrinated to believe that their faith cannot be undermined - their coping mechanism, an all powerful God, a just-and-moral universe and an eternal afterlife - should be difficult to alter without altering their overall ideological character.
For threat 2, both types of fighter have a definite and objective sense of self worth due to their cosmological views about the soul. Again see threat 1.
For threat 3, the risk of traumatic events being normalized is reduced due to the notion of spiritual interventionism. The possibility of miraculous intervention means that not only was it highly unlikely the fighter experienced a traumatic event, it was even more unlikely that the traumatic event would have had a true negative outcome.
That said, they are not immune to this psychological phenomena, only hardened to it. The new government in Afghanistan reportedly has issues handling large numbers of listless, traumatized young men who have been war fighters for 10 to 20 years but that literature is still developing. There is no reason to think that the initial struggles they are having with post-war PTSD there will magically be relieved by a trip to the mosque after decades of praying in the desert.
What's that cat doin.
Sorry mate you can’t mind over matter ptsd.
Some people just get it. It is the price of war. MDMA and ketamine therapy is the only way to really fix it.
Also anyone convinced they can overpower mental illness is lying to themselves and worse, people with the illness. Takes a community of support networks and good drug therapy. But there’s no money to be made from it so people would rather play the tax write off game.
Mental illness isn't real. People are either normal or moronic.
Every gun you own was designed by someone on the spectrum. Sorry the world isn’t fair.
It is not true. Watch: the act of killing. Thank me later.
No because EVERYONE can have a vietnam flashback.
Yes and no.
>Having to kill people
Thinking it's what god wanted you to do probably helps.
>Being constantly put in intense life threatening situations or shelled to shit for days
No, that's still gonna frick you up.
The few close calls I've had in life have made me paranoid about a lot of things, I can only imagine it gets exponentially worse when you're in the line of fire.
PTSD, like most mental disorders, is only a problem in as much as it affects your ability to function in your environment. Western society strongly sanctions violence and aggression, requires extensive cooperation, and demands what are probably unrealistic amounts of autonomy. In a less demanding society with stronger roles and less aversion to aggression you could suffer many of the same symptoms and get by reasonably well, so it's not easy to compare the effects.
Nope. PTSD doesn't fricking care about your ideology, it just fricks you up.
You laugh and yet some people believe that sensory overload is a proof of god.
Idk but soldiers have been recorded for hundreds of years having night terrors and random fits and episodes due to combat, it's not a new thing and only recently been a little better understood
Absolutely true. Unfortunately, so many modern "warriors" use PTSD as a fricking crutch. As in, I gots ptsd, so I need muh emotional support pit bull with me when I go to Walmart. Fricking welfare queens ruining it for the entire group. I see this, and worse almost every day in Arizona.
>"—when they would be secure from danger, they will be beset by great terrors”
From the Book of Chivalry.
The only thing I've witnessed that truly heals the trauma of war in these veterans is the hope, love, and infinite mercy of Lord Jesus Christ.
All those suicides, the entire war, well that was our zionist government. Fought Israel's enemies for them in the Middle East.
7,000 dead soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan
3,000 killed in 9/11
10,000 American ghosts looking for answers
As the prayers of Patriots reach the ears of the Lord
Why the frick is there always a religious schizo in these threads?
Funny how no clinician I've ever known or studied with has said "Yeah I told my patient to go to church it's clearly better than all the proven effective treatments that we have"
Frick off.
Gif related
>yeshua cuck
>our zionist gov
checks out
The ice looks like smoke. That's cool
Jihadis don't even seem to get hearing damage. It's unfair to compare them to Western soldiers.
>Jihadis don't even seem to get hearing damage. It's unfair to compare them to Western soldiers.
It's as if Allah wills it.
They'd be supersoldiers if they knew how to actually fight.
PTSD has been pretty well documented in the modern era. If you are interested in the topic read The Body Keeps the Score. It's very in depth but easy to read.
The first reply is moronic by the way, like truly just a "dude I smoked weed what if PTSD" sort of post.
People have had PTSD, especially those who've seen combat, forever and it's been described throughout history many times by different races and cultures throughout time. So no, PTSD is not a western soldier thing.
You can quite literally traumatize animals so that they have irrational responses to stimuli.
The first reply makes me angry with how moronic and uninformed it is. Sorry for the autism.
I'm the guy who wrote the first reply. I wrote it because that's how I felt after doing back to back tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and then ETS-ing.
But you and several other anons are correct in that that the physical and psychological reaction to combat trauma has been documented for hundreds of years and has likely been with human beings since the beginning. It was not my intention to minimize that. OPs question was "Are ideologically motivated soldiers more resistant to PTSD" so I tried to answer from the standpoint of why Western ideology might make Western soldiers particularly susceptible to PTSD and survivor's guilt in the 21st century.
All I know is when I got out, my head was all messed up, but unlike the historical examples that anons have pointed out; Shakespeare's dreams of ambuscades, etc, I didn't have a cultural frame of reference to process what I had been through and so I had to do it on my own. When I reached out for help, I found out that "Support our Troops" was a slogan to sell t-shirts, not a meaningful statement.
Sorry I made you mad. Hope you got over it.
PTSD at its core is your prehistoric lizard brain going into hyper survival mode when put in a situation of mortal danger/terror and being unable to turn it off, since the lizard brain in an act of self preservation perceives absolutely everything as a threat or at the very least is hyper vigilant of threats real or imagined, which is why this isn’t just something thats specifically limited to combatants. Actual, genuine PTSD literally changes the structure of the brain itself, and while some may handle it better than others that doesn’t make it any less debilitating. If you’re a brainwashed zealot then you might be able to use it as a crutch, but even that can only go so far. As for jihadists in particular, historically they’ve almost always been the absolute bottom barrel of their respective societies sent out to be cannon fodder, so one could argue they do it because they know they have nothing else to look forward to. But even they can still get fricked up over time.
>which is why this isn’t just something thats specifically limited to combatants.
I've heard of severely bullied kids developing symptoms that are very analogous to PTSD.
Yes. Abused children, physical, emotional, victims of incest, etc, very commonly develop PTSD, and it is absolutely devastating to their development and further adult life.
Child maltreatment and abyseis quite literally one of the biggest costs to society, including its economy. I will try and find the economist who won a prize for demonstrating the economic cost of it, but it's pretty fricking bleak.
Honestly every time I see a thread like this it's just the most "American only" perspective thing I've ever seen and it makes me glad my American friends are not this fricking moronic.
PTSD is not a new disease, not a western disease, and not an American disease. It is, however, something psychologists have spent a lot of time trying to understand and treat. Trauma responses can be seen in all kinds of mammals, not just humans. Even reading a basic online VA or psychology page on the topic would tell you that.
Is /k/... a lot more moronic than I thought it was?
/k/ is mostly middle schoolers and hikikomori posting their parents’ guns
PTSD is for pussies
Real men just accept the fact that life is a horrible experience that will inevitably rip you to shreds, and get on with their day
PTSD happens when traumatic or negative memories are imprinted in the limbic center, I.E. the portion of the brain that processes emotions and fear, rather than the cortex. The modern combat environment is more or less the golden setup for inflicting PTSD.
Historically warfare had clear delineations between combat and non-combat, danger and safety. The age of artillery and now the age of airpower has increasingly undermined the separations between being safe and being in danger in modern war. Extended periods of exposure to this ambient danger are the prime conditions to causing PTSD. This is why counterinsurgency operations are also major causes of the condition.
An insurgent may be less likely to acquire PTSD than a counterinsurgent as he is typically allowed to both pick the time and place of battle, and his method of combat favors ambush and bombings. Ideological motivation and personal inclination may be factors in whether or not an insurgent or any individual gets PTSD, but they likely won't be the core factors.