Yeah, it really badly underdelivered for all that was promised when the program initially began and upgraded AK-74Ms (which the AK-12 basically is anyway) offered the same or greater capability.
no, it's a midling upgrade for sure but it's not offensively bad or anything. Everyone collectively shit on it when they could get their hands on one conveniently around the time it was most fashionable to support Ukraine in the recent conflict, so it was an elaborate way of saying "we hate Russia" without openly saying it because that's kinda unhinged for westerners to do
This is cope. Everyone got their hands on it at the same time because that was the same gun and it was passed between all the gun channels. It was a kit build from some sus russian parts and probably linked to Larry Vickers. It had nothing to do with the war.
This video really seems AI generated. It's very inconsistent and accidentally repetitive, but at any given moment gives off that calm authoritative energy. The first half seems like it's aping a typical gun promotion video, the second half starts with a bunch of bizarre knocks, and finishes off with it's accuracy in video games depictions.
>explains 5.45x39 like it's new and innovative >1000 meter sight range is impressive for an assault rifle > diopter sights can get plugged with snow and dirt > In the video game it has 600 rpm but in real life it's 650 >Click bait title
I really doubt the grip can't be replaced, the front hand guard goes on backwards and is a problem, or that the gas block adjuster is easily stuck. There's zero mention of the fact it now accepts optics or they make 60 round casket magazines.
NTA, but I think he's right that they'd exaggerate their disappointment as a dig at Russia. Tax payer money is being spent to make Russia into our external enemy figure for the benefit of whoever the CFL serves. The shill posting on /k/ for the last few years supports this notion.
>is it really that bad?
Probably not. Accepting optics and being used with large magazines are reasonable upgrades.
>Probably not. Accepting optics and being used with large magazines are reasonable upgrades.
It can't even hold zero on its irons and accepting large mags is something damn near every other ak is able to do if I understand your moronic answer.
If you were smart enough to understood a moron's answer, you'd know I was talking about the Picatinny rail addition.
The AKM is like 4-6 minute of angle accuracy, right? I doubt the AK-12 would be any worse. That accuracy and a red-dot make a serviceable combination for practical combat ranges anywhere but a desert or a barren hill side.
Yes, any AK can take a large magazine, it's not a gun-specific feature, but like the optics, it's something that changes the usefulness of the design. The significant thing is a new style of 60 round magazine being widely enough implemented that it's effectively the typical ammo capacity of the gun.
>I was talking about the Picatinny rail addition.
You mean the one that also cannot hold zero and is mushy as shit? Also how is a fricking 60 round mag (I assume the quad stack mags) new? You are talking out the ass and know nothing of the thing you can't even defend.
2 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but why are you so aggressive about this? it's just a rifle dude calm down. You sound like a tourist
>The significant thing is a new style of 60 round magazine being widely enough implemented that it's effectively the typical ammo capacity of the gun
I can't recall a single instance of a quad stack AK mag being used in the current conflict and 99% of all AK-12s I've seen on the Russian side has had zero optics outside of irons.
2 months ago
Anonymous
That guy has been talking out of his ass the entire time he's been in this thread
you are delusional if you don't think it's about the war. I'm aware it's the same gun passed around to a bunch of YouTubers, but all of the videos dropped at the same time and all had comedically hyperbolic titles associated with them. It was obviously a dig at Russia. The upgrades are underwhelming but the worst thing you can say is that it's literally just the M4A1 of AKs. I don't even think its that great myself and find it funny Russia didn't just pivot to the AK200 series since it does the same thing but cheaper, but they didn't and it's really just not that big a deal. There is no reasonable reason for there to have been so much hate directed at it all in that brief time period so consistently down the board
>worst thing you can say is that it's literally just the M4A1 of AKs.
Nah, the M4A1 is actually a good rifle. The AK12 prototype had good ideas. As produced, its clearly a victim of corruption. And no amount of cope will change that. Its an AK-74M with a really shitty pic rail dust cover and hand guard added. The M4 pioneered those upgrades for the AR. The AK-12 did not do the same for the AK. If it had then maybe you could forgive it for being imperfect. But many companies had already done it, and better. If the Russians wanted an M4A1 they should have adopted Zenitco's already existing upgrades as a SOPMOD style kit. Hell, that's what all the cool guys had been doing for years anyways.
homie its not free floated, the dust cover doesnt hold zero and the selector overtravels.
Hiw tf can this rifle be considered anything but an abject failure.
The newest gen has a safety stop, but the handguard and gas tube appear to be the same. Why fricking bother when it offers nothing over a ratnik ak100 series rifle.
>the reason people shit on this was because they all decided to hate Russia for their Ukraine frickup, not because the rifle was a demonstrably dogshit downgrade from what was originally promised and ingrained into the societal conscious via numerous media depictions over the years.
>but muh bideo james said it was wunderwaffen
Grow up. But yes, people shit on it to a disproportionate degree to the point where it was weird. Actual Ukrainians didnt seethe about it as much as American guntubers.
Ukrainians will be happy to have anything that shoots. Those Ukrainians also likely only had experience with a few weapons before being called up, if any to begin with. Syrians called the protection of an export-model T-72 "superb," I'm not going to start thinking that just because they said it.
I think that gun and the early productions ones really were bad since they've been making continuous improvements to it since the war started.
Like it was still in the beta stages but the war started so they went with what they had.
No. It got hit by the Russia bad propaganda blitz. Only thing dumber than people saying this sucks compared to the AK74M is those same people turning around and acting like Russia has the capacity to manufacture zenitco rails fleetwide for cheaper than this.
This Ukrainian guy on YouTube named Valgear actually reviewed a captured AK-12 and from what I remember he said it was an improvement over the AK-74.
Here's the vid link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0VDS1G6GEI
>is it really that bad?
No. Is it better than an ak-74 with some aftermarket furniture? No. Valgear did a review of it and said it was serviceable. If you're going to listen to guntuber's opinions on combat weapons, at least listen to the guy that actually uses guns in combat.
>Mediocre rifle assembled poorly
It's not good and almost no units actually have the optics they were supposed to be issued; either because the funds were embezzled or because the optics themselves were stolen and sold off.
it's OK, but he's right. the western guns are nicer to shoot. I don't trust the dust cover to hold zero, but I'm not shooting beyond 1-200m and not really trying to snipe static targets.
the safety sucks and can get a bit jank, and it doesn't seem to like older pressed sheet metal magazines.
the stock is really nice though, and the handgrip feels more secure than the wooden ones in the snow or wet
better than the 74m but not by a lot and still had sight issues unless you mounted the scope above the handgrip.
anyway, nearly dawn here, so I'm off, enjoy your circle jerk
It's great, I still think they should've switched to a robust thumb selector though, something that can be actuated in the cold. But basically the perfect AK is the Sig 556xi or AK5, if those can even be called AKs becaus they're not as reliable. The AK is reliable BECAUSE of its arcane-ness, it's built like an old diesel tank. They might as well fully redesign a rifle with its key reliability concepts and make it a bullpup while they're at it. A rifle isn't even modern if it's not a bullpup, yoomers need to stop clinging to their long black rifles.
Because its russian and one youtube gaygit said it was "le bad" and everyone on reddit started dick riding and parroting some gaygit ass opinion w/o any actual experience.
It wasnt one guy. Garand thumb, 9 hole reviews, MAC and Brandon Herrera were all saying the same thing, probably even more I'm not aware of. It is remarkable the difference in opinion between people who have shot a real one and leviathan tribe shills.
>there is one poster in here frantically defending this homosexualy gun
imagine how happy the shills were when the poster count features was removed from here
>Isn't freefloated despite it being in the fricking 2020s >Half of the drastically needed ergo upgrades were tossed aside >Never, EVER issues with optics >Handguard is hot dog shit
Literally should have just stuck with the AK74M. It's an abject failure of an upgrade, and no amount of contrarianism is going to change that.
The dustcover being questionable seems to be the biggest outright problem with these but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t buy one if they were being sold at the same price as the countries where they are available.
Its just profoundly mediocre and has bad parts. Beyond that its just an AK74.
Yeah, it really badly underdelivered for all that was promised when the program initially began and upgraded AK-74Ms (which the AK-12 basically is anyway) offered the same or greater capability.
no, it's a midling upgrade for sure but it's not offensively bad or anything. Everyone collectively shit on it when they could get their hands on one conveniently around the time it was most fashionable to support Ukraine in the recent conflict, so it was an elaborate way of saying "we hate Russia" without openly saying it because that's kinda unhinged for westerners to do
This is cope. Everyone got their hands on it at the same time because that was the same gun and it was passed between all the gun channels. It was a kit build from some sus russian parts and probably linked to Larry Vickers. It had nothing to do with the war.
This video really seems AI generated. It's very inconsistent and accidentally repetitive, but at any given moment gives off that calm authoritative energy. The first half seems like it's aping a typical gun promotion video, the second half starts with a bunch of bizarre knocks, and finishes off with it's accuracy in video games depictions.
>explains 5.45x39 like it's new and innovative
>1000 meter sight range is impressive for an assault rifle
> diopter sights can get plugged with snow and dirt
> In the video game it has 600 rpm but in real life it's 650
>Click bait title
I really doubt the grip can't be replaced, the front hand guard goes on backwards and is a problem, or that the gas block adjuster is easily stuck. There's zero mention of the fact it now accepts optics or they make 60 round casket magazines.
NTA, but I think he's right that they'd exaggerate their disappointment as a dig at Russia. Tax payer money is being spent to make Russia into our external enemy figure for the benefit of whoever the CFL serves. The shill posting on /k/ for the last few years supports this notion.
>is it really that bad?
Probably not. Accepting optics and being used with large magazines are reasonable upgrades.
>Probably not. Accepting optics and being used with large magazines are reasonable upgrades.
It can't even hold zero on its irons and accepting large mags is something damn near every other ak is able to do if I understand your moronic answer.
If you were smart enough to understood a moron's answer, you'd know I was talking about the Picatinny rail addition.
The AKM is like 4-6 minute of angle accuracy, right? I doubt the AK-12 would be any worse. That accuracy and a red-dot make a serviceable combination for practical combat ranges anywhere but a desert or a barren hill side.
Yes, any AK can take a large magazine, it's not a gun-specific feature, but like the optics, it's something that changes the usefulness of the design. The significant thing is a new style of 60 round magazine being widely enough implemented that it's effectively the typical ammo capacity of the gun.
>I was talking about the Picatinny rail addition.
You mean the one that also cannot hold zero and is mushy as shit? Also how is a fricking 60 round mag (I assume the quad stack mags) new? You are talking out the ass and know nothing of the thing you can't even defend.
NTA but why are you so aggressive about this? it's just a rifle dude calm down. You sound like a tourist
>Literal projection
>The significant thing is a new style of 60 round magazine being widely enough implemented that it's effectively the typical ammo capacity of the gun
I can't recall a single instance of a quad stack AK mag being used in the current conflict and 99% of all AK-12s I've seen on the Russian side has had zero optics outside of irons.
That guy has been talking out of his ass the entire time he's been in this thread
you are delusional if you don't think it's about the war. I'm aware it's the same gun passed around to a bunch of YouTubers, but all of the videos dropped at the same time and all had comedically hyperbolic titles associated with them. It was obviously a dig at Russia. The upgrades are underwhelming but the worst thing you can say is that it's literally just the M4A1 of AKs. I don't even think its that great myself and find it funny Russia didn't just pivot to the AK200 series since it does the same thing but cheaper, but they didn't and it's really just not that big a deal. There is no reasonable reason for there to have been so much hate directed at it all in that brief time period so consistently down the board
Exactly.
> it's literally just the M4A1 of AKs.
please explain what you're trying to say here.
Give him a bit he's a noguns from a country where civilian gun ownership is strictly regulated and he doesn't really know what he's talking about
>worst thing you can say is that it's literally just the M4A1 of AKs.
Nah, the M4A1 is actually a good rifle. The AK12 prototype had good ideas. As produced, its clearly a victim of corruption. And no amount of cope will change that. Its an AK-74M with a really shitty pic rail dust cover and hand guard added. The M4 pioneered those upgrades for the AR. The AK-12 did not do the same for the AK. If it had then maybe you could forgive it for being imperfect. But many companies had already done it, and better. If the Russians wanted an M4A1 they should have adopted Zenitco's already existing upgrades as a SOPMOD style kit. Hell, that's what all the cool guys had been doing for years anyways.
Didn't they already have that "universal upgrade kit" for the AK74 with the rails?
>russophobia cope
what a surprise
Basically this. The only guy who had a real one and not a parts gun was Valgear, and he said it was decent but not as good as western guns.
homie its not free floated, the dust cover doesnt hold zero and the selector overtravels.
Hiw tf can this rifle be considered anything but an abject failure.
The newest gen has a safety stop, but the handguard and gas tube appear to be the same. Why fricking bother when it offers nothing over a ratnik ak100 series rifle.
Probably true, I remember they all really laid it on think, to an extent that seem kinda unwarranted.
>the reason people shit on this was because they all decided to hate Russia for their Ukraine frickup, not because the rifle was a demonstrably dogshit downgrade from what was originally promised and ingrained into the societal conscious via numerous media depictions over the years.
>but muh bideo james said it was wunderwaffen
Grow up. But yes, people shit on it to a disproportionate degree to the point where it was weird. Actual Ukrainians didnt seethe about it as much as American guntubers.
Ukrainians will be happy to have anything that shoots. Those Ukrainians also likely only had experience with a few weapons before being called up, if any to begin with. Syrians called the protection of an export-model T-72 "superb," I'm not going to start thinking that just because they said it.
>illiterate slav is illiterate
I think that gun and the early productions ones really were bad since they've been making continuous improvements to it since the war started.
Like it was still in the beta stages but the war started so they went with what they had.
It's not a completely useless rifle, but Russia would have gotten a better rifle, if they just asked zenitco to Sopmod 2 their AK-74Ms
no, it's just painfully mediocre. A better use of the money would have been buying/making something like the zenitco b30/b33 combo for their rifles.
2012 AK-12 was sexy as frick. I'm still seething that they didn't at least continue production of the furniture.
No. It got hit by the Russia bad propaganda blitz. Only thing dumber than people saying this sucks compared to the AK74M is those same people turning around and acting like Russia has the capacity to manufacture zenitco rails fleetwide for cheaper than this.
This Ukrainian guy on YouTube named Valgear actually reviewed a captured AK-12 and from what I remember he said it was an improvement over the AK-74.
Here's the vid link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0VDS1G6GEI
yeah but it's because he's one of the few people who have an actual one and not a clone
This. Valgear is a genuine operator participating in TZD activities daily. I prefer his takes on weapon systems over any basedjacking gun "celebrity".
>is it really that bad?
No. Is it better than an ak-74 with some aftermarket furniture? No. Valgear did a review of it and said it was serviceable. If you're going to listen to guntuber's opinions on combat weapons, at least listen to the guy that actually uses guns in combat.
Note that guy has every reason to shit on Russian guns for propaganda purposes yet said it was good to go.
The ak12 is bad and you cannot convince me otherwise.
>Mediocre rifle assembled poorly
It's not good and almost no units actually have the optics they were supposed to be issued; either because the funds were embezzled or because the optics themselves were stolen and sold off.
No it’s actually pretty good, the ONLY person who is qualified to speak about this is valgear and he says it’s good.
it's OK, but he's right. the western guns are nicer to shoot. I don't trust the dust cover to hold zero, but I'm not shooting beyond 1-200m and not really trying to snipe static targets.
the safety sucks and can get a bit jank, and it doesn't seem to like older pressed sheet metal magazines.
the stock is really nice though, and the handgrip feels more secure than the wooden ones in the snow or wet
better than the 74m but not by a lot and still had sight issues unless you mounted the scope above the handgrip.
anyway, nearly dawn here, so I'm off, enjoy your circle jerk
>AK with sturdier barrel and gas adjustment
It's great, I still think they should've switched to a robust thumb selector though, something that can be actuated in the cold. But basically the perfect AK is the Sig 556xi or AK5, if those can even be called AKs becaus they're not as reliable. The AK is reliable BECAUSE of its arcane-ness, it's built like an old diesel tank. They might as well fully redesign a rifle with its key reliability concepts and make it a bullpup while they're at it. A rifle isn't even modern if it's not a bullpup, yoomers need to stop clinging to their long black rifles.
The stock cross is shit let me tell you that much
Basically all of its flaws don't matter because the Russians don't issue LAMs and optics on a large scale.
The issues that people absolutely hated, the stock and 2rd burst, got fixed.
is the handguard being a flimsy pile of plastic still being fixed or is that too space age for them now?
Because its russian and one youtube gaygit said it was "le bad" and everyone on reddit started dick riding and parroting some gaygit ass opinion w/o any actual experience.
how many words do you need to type that end with "it" on it for christ sakes. Calm down and maybe go back yourself
Post hand thirdie.
It wasnt one guy. Garand thumb, 9 hole reviews, MAC and Brandon Herrera were all saying the same thing, probably even more I'm not aware of. It is remarkable the difference in opinion between people who have shot a real one and leviathan tribe shills.
>there is one poster in here frantically defending this homosexualy gun
imagine how happy the shills were when the poster count features was removed from here
>Isn't freefloated despite it being in the fricking 2020s
>Half of the drastically needed ergo upgrades were tossed aside
>Never, EVER issues with optics
>Handguard is hot dog shit
Literally should have just stuck with the AK74M. It's an abject failure of an upgrade, and no amount of contrarianism is going to change that.
The AK platform peaked with the 100 series. It's been downhill ever since.
>screaming israelitetuber onions face thumbnail
frick off
The dustcover being questionable seems to be the biggest outright problem with these but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t buy one if they were being sold at the same price as the countries where they are available.