Is artillery as fun of a job as it seems?
>fire big guns all day
Seems like it would be up most people's ally.
Is artillery as fun of a job as it seems? >fire big guns all day. Seems like it would be up most people's ally.
Is artillery as fun of a job as it seems?
>fire big guns all day
Seems like it would be up most people's ally.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Don't forget that those concussive blasts lead to CTE, concussions, and soft tissue damage
t. PhD student researching for the VA
this, plus you'll get combat ribbons and get to legit tell people you are a combat veteran without actually having been in any real danger (except from your coworkers)
Depends entirely on how many times you have to shoot and scoot per day. The novelty of firing a big gun wears out fast after you realize how much time and effort you'll spend on setting up the gun in contrast to how much time is spent actually firing the gun.
t. tykimies
What about SPARTs? Are they as much of a hassle?
WHAAAAAAT!?
"HOST PEOPLES RALLY!?"
SPATS AND TASSLES!? THE FRICK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
Schizophrenia
newer than new
lol
SISSY FRENIA? WHOS THAT AND WHAT THE FRICK ARE YOU SAYING
I can't comment on those, my military service was spent handling a field howitzer. I imagine they're much nicer for the crew, at least from the perspective of how physically tiring it gets.
Also I have to say that the importance of this
can not be overstated. Your health will never ever be worth sacrificing, especially your brain's health. For me military service was only 6 months and getting to fire the gun itself wasn't that many times (at max maybe 100 times? and at 122mm caliber), but for longer and more intense periods of time I'd definitely be very worried.
Also pro tip:
>keep yours eyes closed during night firing to not get flashbanged
>keep your mouth always closed when firing and preferably look the other way because otherwise dust and other small shit will enter your mouth without your consent
What about missle artillery? Is it just as debilitating?
Yes, you don't have to hump 155s and you ride in a truck or track. So you're doing a lot of vehicle maintenance. Additionally a lot of MLRS and HIMARS units "have something to prove" so they do stupid ass PT that serves no purpose but to break you.
Optempo is the same garbage and the bored/cleaning/sucking in the field rotation is the same.
>For me military service was only 6 months and getting to fire the gun itself wasn't that many times (at max maybe 100 times? and at 122mm caliber), but for longer and more intense periods of time I'd definitely be very worried.
The Marines in that NYT report were firing over a thousand 155mm rounds per gun in just 2 months. No wonder they came back seeing ghosts and struggling to remember their own names.
https://web.archive.org/web/20231106005853/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/us/us-army-marines-artillery-isis-pentagon.html
However, if you are a getaway driver and like trucks and offroading....
It just makes shooting the gun more delicious. T. Also a tykkimies
Bullshit unless you're in a third world army without self propelled Howitzers. Cleaning and maintenance is far worse.
I'm Finnish, our gun was 122H63 (basically D-30). I counted maintenance to be part of ''setting up the gun'', in general you have to do lots of things before the gun will be able to fire which gets annoying.
It gets exponentially annoying when you have to do it during winter with massive amounts of snow everywhere and in permanent darkness (so that the truckload of equipment you have to carry around gets much harder to keep track of).
>never served
What if it was drone operated?
Doesn't sound fun at all being an artilleryman with the constant ear-bursting noise, but I suppose it's better than infantry
You know they get earplugs, right?
Also actual frontline units, ie. get hit with enemy direct explosives on the regular.
No everyone is issued ear plugs now whoch is why hearing loss is no longer part of disability
No, they're issued ear pro. It just doesn't work.
average settlement was $10-20k
really I thought it was gonna be like 4$ per person so i never bothered to sign up
same, I never finished the paperwork, but my buddy got told he's getting $23k
Thats what i said, and what you posted required them to sue the govt, they werent able to judt get disability rating from the annual hearing tests and use that
>The Marines conducted a study of one unit, Fox Battery, 2nd Battalion 10th Marines, to see the impacts of high artillery blasts on their health. The report, released in 2019, said that the Marines were being hurt by the shockwaves from their howitzers. More than half of the battery was diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injuries. The Marines Corps did not answer New York Times’ questions about who ordered the study. One Army blast researcher the paper spoke to said that repeated exposure to such blasts can scar brain tissue and hurt neural connections.
You see, that's why the Marines are the best artillery. They have inferior brains to begin with, so a 20% loss of neural connections is a net-positive when compared to smarter branches who lose the same percentage of their greater brains.
Makes you wonder if they have perma diarrhea as well
that would probably be from the MREs
Would SPGs have this same problem?
>Would SPGs have this same problem?
I wouldn't worry about it, the Simon Property Group Inc rarely suffers concussion damage from sustained use of heavy artillery even at the worst of times
i doubt it. how would they even diagnose "traumatic brain injuries"? i doubt youll see anything special on brain mris. the brain is behind the skull and sits in in a cushion bath of cerebrospinal fluid. if the blast doesnt move your head i highly doubt it can cause damage, if anything i would suspect damage to ear-nose-throat area, not in the brain.
holy shit how fricking stupid are you
You do not even know what a TBI is, and here are you spouting dumb shit.
its not a common way to get a traumatic brain injury. traumatic brain injuries are mostly impacts, objects hiting the head. vibration and shaking can also cause harm to the brain but an artillery blast... not exactly common, ive never heard of a soldier being brought to the clinic and the paramedic saying "omg he just shot 1000rounds of artillery" and the doc saying "yeah you can clearly see damage here and here" pinpointing it on a brain mri. and a ct would probably show absolutely nothing at all.
Just stop dawg, you are gaytarded
>ive never heard of a soldier being brought to the clinic and the paramedic saying "omg he just shot 1000rounds of artillery"
That's not how it works and you're stupid even by Army standards.
https://www.vetaffairs.la.gov/shoulder-fired-weapons-can-cause-traumatic-brain-injuries-study-finds/
Also in the tm for field artillery, the .10, near the beginning is a safety section on blast overpressure shouldnt exceed 1000 units in a 24 hr period, the point gain is modified by amt of rounds, charge of rounds, and posir88vtion on gun when shot
I only lurk but I want to take this special opportunity to call you a moron
yeah i know it sounds contrarian, but it makes sense if you work in medicine.
if you did brain mris of 30 random artillery men vs 30 random not artillery men i doubt you could spot any differences.
and then how can you say the artillery men have brain damage when you see no damage and their brains look like everybody elses?
>if it doesn't move in your head I don't see how it'd cause damage
Hey I'm no doctor, but I am an engineer and you seem to not understand what a shockwave even is.
yeah and when im jumping you will see shockwaves going through my brain too, that doesnt mean i get brain damage from jumping.
most military medical reports of traumatic brain injuries is people experiencing an acceleration of the whole or part of the body due to the shock wave. traumatic brain injury just by the shock wave itself is rare and then the diagnosis is made through the history and based on clinical findings. if youd see anything special on a brain mri they would mention that, but its not mentioned at all, which leads me to assume they didnt really find any specific damage.
i havent really studied the literature about it though, just a quick glance and some common sense.
The shockwave from jumping up and down is something entirely different from sitting next to 15lbs of nitrocelulose detonating at 60000psi and you know it.
You work in medicine apparently, tell me what would you think in this scenario? You see a patient and gave him a clean bill of health he leaves your office and fires 30 rounds from a Carl gustov (a weapon with no recoil, it doesn't physically move his head) he steps back into your office with a nosebleed, impaired coordination and speech, and has trouble forming coherent sentences.
Would you diagnose him with hopscotch or jump rope syndrome?
>havent really studied the literature about it though
This seems clear
>a quick glance and some common sense
Imbecile.
Could there have been any other experiences besides shooting RPGs in that timeframe? Of course there are, but you don’t mention them because you’ve already convinced yourself.
>100 arty rounds
>unknown time period
>unknown proximity to the gun
The guys in that marine battery fired ~7200 rounds max charge in six months, or 1200 rounds a month or 40 a day, right next to the gun. Of course their brains are scrambled you midwit. There used to be a video of a us sf guy firing a few carl gustav rounds in close succession, then bleeding from the nose, vomiting and passing out. Yeah hes good to go.
moron moroning moronicly on top of Mt. Severe cognitive deficiency
This only proves that CG and full charge howitzer don't cause mild or severe TBI, comparing those results to other papers the effect is lower than mild TBI from an amateur boxing match. Doesn't mean it's completely harmless as CSF changes were detected, the damage could be due to a different mechanism or it's hiding in the statistical noise
yeah ok dunning-kruger andy
>one shitty 2011 study
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2300/RR2350/RAND_RR2350.pdf
2020 study
have a nice day immediately and painfully
>I havent really studied the literature about it though
Yeah, that's fricking obvious.
Blast-related mild traumatic brain injury is a well-recognised concept and the mechanism is understood. It's one of the most common injuries seen in OIF/OEF vets.
No, it's not easily visualised on mri or ct but that's hardly a surprise given the pathophysiology involved and the limitations of current imaging technology. You're like a doctor from the 1950s saying "strokes don't exist because they don't show up on an x-ray of the skull". Just fricking moronic.
And as it happens, certain types of imaging do appear able to identify evidence of blast-related mTBI. Specifically diffusion tensor imaging may show decreased radial diffusivity, increased fractional anisotropy and an increased axial diffusivity/radial diffusivity ratio.
But you don't know what any of that means because you're just some brainless frick spouting bullshit online because you're too moronic to know how moronic you really are. Don't chime in with your two cents on topics you know frick all about. Your opinions are fricking worthless and so are you, you piss stain of a human being.
That "diagnosis" was invented by the VA in order to allow people to make insurance claims on things for which there is no physical evidence. Vet has psychological issue, comes in to get checked out — there’s nothing on any scans / tests, he gets a psychiatric treatment. But now insurance can pay for it since there’s a diagnostic code. There’s no MRI or tissue test anywhere that has linked the symptoms with actual brain damage. That’s NOT to say there isn’t a negative psychological impact but it’s false to state that there is physical damage.
there's no test you can do on people who are still alive, if you dice up and point a microscope at their brains once they're dead you can tell
An inability to identify physical damage =/= an absence of physical damage.
Was radiation harmless before we started looking at chromosomes?
Yes. If we don't have scientific studies of it, it doesn't exist.
Why would someone need psychiatric treatment from being nowhere near the fighting, and only near a big friendly piece of equipment that goes “boom” a lot?
You ever stand peacetime guard duty? Seems like night after night of doing absolutely nothing and not being able to do anything (since you have to be alert) would be more psychologically damaging than physical labor easier than any Mexican building homes in the southwest goes through every day. But the guard duty doesn’t cause psychological issues, even if you were left out on the flight line for 24 hours straight guarding a loaded SEAL C-130 because your radio went dead and nobody told the next shift that you were out there and you can’t leave your post without being properly relieved…
>yeah and when im jumping you will see shockwaves going through my brain too, that doesnt mean i get brain damage from jumping
>that doesnt mean i get brain damage from jumping
You unironically would get brain damage if you regularly jumped up and down with the force of a 155mm propellant charge
frick off
https://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/61/Users/019/71/4371/Overpressure%20Study%20Report%2020191025.pdf
Be a contrarian all you want, you have no fricking clue what you are talking about. We can see this on MRIs and even CTs - and we're in the early stages of understanding this
No way the military lets that go into use, they would need to increase arty men x3
No, you absolutely cannot. MRIs and even bio-marker analysis show nothing. Recent research with rats shows the effects of mild TBI only using slices of the brain examined under microscopes. Non-mild TBI is well-understood now it’s the mild TBI which is in ongoing study, and even though they’ve found it in rats as micro-inflammation the actual specific action behind the damage remains unknown only that it doesn’t show up in rats after just one exposure, they need to be exposed to multiple events in succession. That’s rats, humans may be very different.
why in the fricking world do you imagine you know better than the doctors and soldiers who participated in the study? why does everyone on PrepHole think they're the smartest person in the world?
I'm starting to think that the motherfricker might not actually be moronic and that we bit on some bait
>why does everyone on PrepHole think they're the smartest person in the world?
Navy gay here. The blast wave moves through your body.
You don’t need to compress the brain up against the skull when the blast sends a compression wave through it.
When a destroyer’s 5 inch fires you feel that shit move through you from the covered smoke deck.
155mm looks to be more powerful than 5 inch.
i'm guessing the navy doesn't have this problem because they don't go off blasting guns all the time
and i imagine the deck between you and gun helps some
this kind of post makes it worth still coming to the god forsaken site
you are a literal fricking moron with room temperature iq lmao. holy shit please, go up on top of your chromosomes and jump down to your iq please
You must have suffered several traumatic brain injuries.
T. Artilleryman
Found the guy stamping “not service related” on everything
I wonder if good helmets would help
does rocket artillery have this problem?
if it means not scrambling our dudes brains we should just transition to that even if it means needing to splatter targets with exponentially more expensive munitions
>implying rockets aren't even louder
i don't think it's the sound that fries your brains but the concussive blast from the propellant going kaboom
i'm sure rockets aren't quiet but i'm guessing they have less of a percussive blast wave
the blast wave is a sound front, it's roughly the same thing
Was the damage done to artillerists as bad in WWII?
Be prepared for a lot of math
I had fun as an FDC nerd. Would not recommend being a gunner. Especially if you're towed - unless you like the idea of blowing out your shoulders digging spades and running rounds. Go rocket if you want to live the comfy life. Paladins are dope too but no guarantees there. You will eventually end up in a 777 section.
Promotions can be pretty fast for 13Bs. When I was in E5 dropped to fricking 30 at one point.
Gunners don't do math. They dig holes and pick up shells.
FDC does fake math (computing degraded is all shortcuts and analog calculators; you will never need to do trig on paper) and sets up OE-254s.
On a whole nobody who is in artillery deliberately picked that as their first choice except some officers and weirdos (like me; I like howitzer math). My official job title was "Fire Control Specialist" and I knew four separate individuals who all thought they were going to be fire fighters until they got to Fort Sill.
Officers have it pretty fun until they get made XO/PL. Their 2LT/1LT time gets spent as FDO (in charge of battery FDC) and he gets to chill in the back until it's time to stress out about ammo counts and computing safety or as FSO where he gets to larp as recon infantry with the fisters in an infantry company.
My GT score is 140 and yes I'm just that moronic 🙂
Good times/10 the worst part was garrison life. Listening to the shell whistle echo off the hills during a fire mission gets me rock hard to this day.
>Listening to the shell whistle echo off the hills during a fire mission gets me rock hard to this day.
I kneel
>go deaf
>get ACK'd by a DJI drone.
>Kill knees loading shells and charges
>EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
it's a good way to get disability and retire at 30
Running the rounds is far from the most physically debilitating thing of operating a howitzer, the set up for it and all the extra bullshit for position improvement will cause mich worse wear and tear on you. Frick i do miss it sometimes though, just dont be a b***h and you can get on good with your section
>actually considering anything but staff work in the military as a job
You are either bottom of the barrel social trash, majorly moronic or both.
Nobody is saying anything about joining. Another schizophrenic
>Top Gun never happened
It would be fun if my frail mortal meat shell was impervious to the deafening shockwaves and repeated lifting of heavy objects.
WHAT?
No.
Was arty for 10 years before switching to SIGINT. Even in heavy units (270/m109) the work is physically difficult while also being boring as frick. Your coworkers are also moronic. Your leadership is either also moronic or extremely bitter from dealing with morons constanly You go to the field a lot, get run ragged doing fire missions or "fire missions," shit breaks constantly. All you do is maintain equipment, clean, and train the same being shit over and over. It was good for like three months.
Now that I'm Intel I sit in a comfy SCIF with air conditioning and only have to deal with my fellow autists
I am forever grateful to my recruiter who told me "you will not like artillery at all. Trust me. Go signal if you get offered it, your a nerd and will fit right in with them"
Arty suuuuuuuuuucks dude.
>fun
>gets droned by Lancet outta nowhere
Don’t worry he’d be manning a real battery, not a decoy.
anon if a lancet is hitting you it means the enemy is too close. have you EVER seen drone footage against artillery?
>have you EVER seen drone footage against artillery?
Enjoy your tinitus. Arty sucks balls
WHAT? SPEAK LOUDER SONNY I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
I DON'T KNOW WHY ALL THE YOUNG PEOPLE MUMBLE THESE DAYS...
have fun with cancer surgeries afterword
>arty
Pack it up fellas, glavset is here.
>Pointing out how American servicemen get fricked by the DoD and the dangers of having thousands of explosions go off next to your head means that you're a vatnik.
You disgust me.
Alcoholism and suicide.
>hey the military kinda sucks and the VA is dysfunctional
>NOOOOOO MUH VATNIIIIIIIIIIKS
Don't you have a circlejerk to attend, homosexual?
How come this phenomenon wasn't heard with World War soldiers they used the most arty
Because they just tossed them on the street or executed them.
Because they came home and were alcoholics who beat their wives after their shift in the factory before dying in 1958.
Communism, Fascism and National Socialism become popular after WW2. What do you think?
2/3rds of those were not so big after ww2 moron
It was a reoccuring joke post ww2 that you had to yell to be heard by men
>WWI
Everyone's health was atrocious thanks to the industrial revolution and zero regulations on anything, so they didn't stand out from the crowd of equally disabled and lead poisoned urban workers in London/the Ruhr/etc.
>WWII
They raised the Baby Boomers and we can currently see how that turned out
>They raised the Baby Boomers and we can currently see how that turned out
I don't see the problem.
They didn't keep good records back then.
besides the other replies, the M777 has a muzzle brake which WW1 artillery didn't have. Also probably higher pressure rounds as well I'd imagine.
>muzzle brake
Backblast of large late-war german AT guns during WWII were a problem iirc.
>this phenomenon wasn't heard with World War soldiers
Of course not, you answered it yourself
>they used the most artillery
The typical artillery piece back then was ~75mm, not 155mm like today.
Much like PTSD, CTE was poorly misunderstood medicallyback then.
They just became alcoholics, beat their wives and children and die from complications due to alcohol.
Not using cup style hearing protection? Is this for real? Tykimiehet, please tell me this is moronic.
>dirtbag discharge
Who did he rape?
He admitted to a female officer that he took drugs to try and treat his mental issues.
>sleep paralysis
Just sleep on your side, worked for me.
>Hallucinations of a black demon
It's not an hallucination tough
It's nice besides the tinnitus. And the brain damage. And the brain damage. And the brain damage.
Oh for sure. Until you are at war with a country that isn't technologically in the stone age, and starts hitting your static unarmored position with drones and planes and bombs and rockets and, oh my gosh, artillery fire.
Good thing you're all in the stone age compared to us.
I guess you are right. After all American weapons sent the russians in Ukraine packing all the way back to Moscow. Invulnerable American artillery, yessir!
What would you say is the tactical advantage of sacrificing over 300,000 men, thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of AFVs, dozens of aircraft, the flagship of the Russian navy with almost all of her crew, and scores of aircraft Russia had little or no ability to replace in exchange of gaining almost nothing, all of which you are going to ultimately lose? And all that to decades obsolescent castoffs from the back of the warehouse...
Oh dear, I forgot to mention your Black Sea Fleet. Do you suppose the crews were killed when the drones and missiles hit, or did they drown or burn alive and screaming for their mothers as the ships sunk?
Bait or moron???
Arty gives you fricked knees and fricked ears and the more we look the more we're seeing just how it fricks the brain.
Guaranteed to give out hearing damage. Got 2 layers of hearing protection? Doesn't matter, the noise conducting throught your body and into your ears is enough to affect your hearing in the long-term.
would blast suits help? or just stand further away when firing?
>stand further away when firing?
Not really an option. The more time you spend moving to and from a more hearing-safe location is time not shooting big gun. That being said, taking 2 extra steps back is going to help a lot more than one would think.
The purpose of the EOD suit is not to protect you from the blast but to make it easier to pick up all your pieces after the blast
Dawg those bomb suits weigh 85lbs and are near impossible to move or see in. Frick no.
Best place to be on a 777 is directly behind the gun. The muzzle brake actually works then. It's the other half of the section standing outside that small area that really gets fricked up.
My grandpa did this as a long term career in the military, messed up his hearing. He had seven kids (Catholic) and put my dad up in a masonic orphanage. They were recently deployed in Syria to blow up brown kids for oil in schools and hospitals and such.
>messed up his hearing
how would you know? my grandparents also have trouble hearing and they never even heard artillery in their life. i think you would be hard pressed to find an old dude who hasnt problems with hearing.
PRIVATE MOVE THE BOXES AGAIN
OH TED LOOK: IT'S A BIG BUNCH OF BOXES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD
The blasts don’t cause any physical injury or noticeable change to the brain; it’s just a common theory on explaining psychological phenomena. That’s why when Googling it you’ll only see "MAY" — they don’t actually know. There’s no way to physically diagnose it, it’s just someone reports sleep issues, thinking issues, etc, and if they’ve trained with heavy weapons then boom, there’s the diagnosis. On an aside it’s pretty wild how politically powerful health anxiety is, it can literally make medical issues without the slightest bit of evidence.
>The blasts don’t cause any physical injury or noticeable change to the brain
This is obviously false lol
>Massive pressure waves that smack the brain around do nothing
This anon stands next to Howitzers all day
It may do something but not anything medical science knows how to detect. If I develop a psychological condition is that because of brain injury or is that because I was psychologically wired to develop it when exposed to loud noises? There is no noticeable difference between brains exposed to blasts and those not exposed. If there is a change it’s something that we have no ability to detect. That’s what you Current Thing health anxiety Reddit shit is promoting in here.
>Blast waves are safe and effective
Bro we get it the collective needs of the US requires some men to be sacrificed you dont need to pull out this pseud vaccine deboonker tier nonsense.
you can tell if you autopsy them once they kill themselves, that's how they diagnosed it in the NFL players
>standing in the middle of a field in the desert
in ukraine, they'd all be dead in an hour.
>artillery
> fun
Who has the webm of the pajeets running around, stomping, circling around a howitzer as it deploys.
> waving flags too
Artillerymen are wannabe grunts. They're fricking tryhard and will do everything in the most moronic way just to be hard. Was attached to an arty batallion and they were always miserable but also proud of their misery. Firemissions were done in long sleeves and full flak and kevlar during the summer and they were always drenched in sweat. In winter it was worse, because they were soaked in sweat and then still had to live in below freezing temperatures when out in the field.
We had M198s, so half the guns were always under maintenance or just deadlined.
We still practiced drill. To go to the chowhall, we had to march if there were four or more of us. Gunrocks could be dumb as frick. But they were solid dudes too.
kek this, its funny to see videos of artillerymen fully kitted out with a shit ton of plates and a bunch of useless shit on their vest when theyre miles away from any fighting and manning a stationary gun
You sound like you suffer from b***hitis, the range of the howitzers means you are only a few miles from the front and with the advent of drones and shit some body armor is preferrable to none especially when it doesnt really negatively impact performance
Don't get butthurt just because your job sucks, gunrock.
I was airborne b***h, making things more difficult adds some much needed spice to a usually dull field op
You can make things challenging to spice things up as you said. It's another thing to try and show up another platoon at the expense of your troops. Oh, 1st platoon is doing a 7 mile beach run? We're going to do a 10 mile beach run in full MOPP gear and gasmask. I'm not against rigor in training, but it has to be measured or will frick up your marines' bodies overtime. You know leaders are fricking up if people are constantly on light duty.
Im airborne army not marines, so the whole showing up people isnt as bad where i was stationed, the worst ones were a ranger commander who had a hardon for doing our monday and friday runs in uniform instead of pts', which caused a lot of foot and ankle injuries
they're the exception, not the norm. It's usually party with arty.
Personally I really liked artillery, You still get to go in the field and do army stuff without rucking dozens of miles.
>wearing flak and kevlar
if the enemy is in range, so are you. And it's not inconceivable at all that an artillery position could be attacked by infantry.
I was in a FA unit that did a surge era "in lieu of" mission. We were what would be called "uplift" today. Secury for SOF, QRF, towers, outer cordon. The training we did was stupid hard and injured 1/3 the battery, for no benefit. Watching the SOF guys laugh at us as CSM and LTC tried to brag to them about our PT regimen is still cringe to this day.
>it is common knowledge in military circles even shoulder fired weapons let alone massive cannons cause TBI and even limit the amount of firing one can do in training to specifically prevent TBI
>anon says it's a myth
So what's exactly the reason of having missle artillery and keeping conventional artillery? Do they both have am equal amount of pros and cons?
And since the humping and setting up as well as the Shockwave n blasts leave men with disabilities which cost money in the long run why not just solely use SPARTs since at least the crew inside isn't exposed as much to the shockwaves?
gun artillery is cheaper, has better sustained fire rate and unguided rounds are about 2 times more accurate than rockets
Think about it from a historical perspective. Today, precision missile artillery probably could replace most gun artillery if we went all-out investing in that track. But for the last 100 years, the cap on artillery has been logistics, and rocket artillery physically takes up 5x more space per shot than the equivalent in gun rounds.
before computers: rockets are for spamming an area in the shortest time while guns are for accuracy
after computers: rockets are for long range precision while guns are for mid range suppression
couldn't we just use cluster munitions in big rockets for suppression
im a moron pls no bully
By suppression in this case I mean time not area. Cluster munitions in rockets were a cold war staple. But the point of dumb shells today is in a conventional operational-scale attack where artillery fire of smoke and explosive rains down on an area as your engineers clear obstacles and tanks charge up for overwatch; to stop ATGM and FPV teams from sticking their heads up.
makes sense, thanks
There's a reason only drooling asvab waivers do this job
Are you one of them?
>the unit that fired so many shells at ISIS they turned their brains to mush and started seeing ghosts
Pick a job that transfers well to the private sector, graduate high in your MOS school class, and beg for orders to an arty unit if you wanna be around them so bad. You will say you wanna do the full 20 and get out after one enlistment like most of us.
This should have been posted in /meg/ for the love of God.
This is totally off topic, but have any of you ever experienced the following:
>got flak, kevlar, and weapon
>jump out of the back of the 7-ton
>upon landing, taint absorbs the impact and hurts like a motherfricker
Am I alone in this?
No, I see many other vets at the pain clinic done in by soldier load.
Your spine did not evolve for that shit and vehicles should be designed for safer bed egress because it would meaningfully reduce injuries. While most injuries don't finish ruining your life until you're retired (so document everything and fricking get periodic fresh HARD COPY medical records then save those including scanning them to backup media local and online) the accumulation of spine and joint damage has brutal effects. So does blast TBI.
I met one vet who was combat camera at Falluja and was billeted beneath the outgoing path of a MLRS battery. It fricked him up visibly. Solid dude, righteous as he could be but the rest of his life (brain damage is mostly a one-way street) is FUBAR.
>vehicles should be designed for safer bed egress
But anon the LMTV comes with a ladder. It's fine.
>You have two minutes to occupy so you jump the five-odd feet in full kit and start digging a tunnel to agartha
Dont worry, you dont need knees where you are going, also get good at being first one out and sliding out, takes a lot of the jarring out
did you touch dirt and yell marine corps? no? found your problem.
bend your knees when you land like you're a real skater.
curious how big of a difference in brain scrambling between firing 105 vs 155mm
roughly a 1:3 in terms of shell weight
the difference between them is probably exponential.
The 105 wasn't bad at all. But I only got to be near one firing once in AIT and with their earpro it was super underwhelming.
For health reasons manually operated artillery should be abolished. SPGs can stay since the crew is insulated by their steel cabin. Maybe add some rubber mats to the spall liner for max protection.
It really should be, at the least I'd think modern militaries would want to avoid it at all costs. We don't make guys choke on fumes at 120° inside tanks, because it fricks up their ability to fight for long periods. Being exposed to constant shockwaves from your own gun should be treated no different.
Ex CAF arty guy here.
Mac High charge 5 absolutely fricks your head up. After extended periods of firing, memory gaps, EEEEEEEE, headaches, nausea, and diarrhea were common among my guys. Also the way the m777 muzzle break functions and the way fobs and gunlines were laid, made sure you got hosed by the break from your guns to the right and left. Also the moronic way the caf lays out its gun stores makes it sure fire your num 5 is fricked.
damn that sucks
we're fricking up our own dudes and that makes me feel bad
>GLOBAL FORCE 2024 — US Army Futures Command head Gen. James Rainey today teased some details of the Army’s highly anticipated tactical fires study — and made it clear that towed artillery’s future isn’t bright.
>“I personally believe that we have witnessed the end of the effectiveness of towed artillery: The future is not bright for towed artillery,” Rainey told an audience today at the Association of the US Army’s Global Force symposium. Looking at large scale operations against threats like China, the US Army instead needs mobile, indirect fires, especially in its lighter Stryker formations, he added.
https://www.dvidshub.net/tags/video/ausa-2024-global-force-symposium
They've been hunting for a self propelled 155 to put with strykers since their inception but they keep running into the problem of the limits they set themselves for strategic mobility and their own inability to adopt anything that is truly new.
Everything in a stryker brigade by doctrine has to at least notionally fit inside a C-130. Until they find a self-propelled howitzer that can they'll be stuck with the 777.
Sure, of you want to see ghosts the rest of your life.
Another question
Why isn't a barrage of hundreds if not thousands of towed guns volley at the same time like how archers used to do in ancient times a real strategy?
they tried that in WWI and it didn't work very well.
Largely because of trenches and other fortifications. Artillery needs to be used in conjunction with other stuff to be effective, hence why combined arms warfare was more or less born in WWI.
You also cant fit hundreds even thousands of artillery pieces in that small of a space and actually use the guns or just not be a massive easy target since there is no easy or quick way to get out of the area
What about mortars?
>what is counterbattery
The USSR tried those massed barrages in WW2. It's where they got their doctrine from. It relies on 1) the enemy not being able to shoot back and 2) the ability to stockpile the relevant quantities of ammo for days beforehand in one big spot.
No. You just set up, clean, clean, replace replace clean. I was kind of unusual because of the amount of head protection and armor I wore. People were wearing ear protection and helmet I had extra things on. A piece that went up from my vest 6 inchest heavy duty ear protection, heavy helmet. Anything I could to absorb the shock fire when they fired. Covered my head with arms when they fired and got as far away as I reasonably could. Alot of guys have issues from not doing things like that. The shock wave will scramble brains if you are close not using armor
or covering with arms.
>EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>"Dad, you got brain damage from your time in shitholeistan"
>"What did you say you lil shit?"