Is APS on this cuttie any good?
Any armchair APS experts gonna explain to me how a French IFV has more advanced protection than US MBTs?
Is APS on this cuttie any good?
Is APS on this cuttie any good?
Any armchair APS experts gonna explain to me how a French IFV has more advanced protection than US MBTs?
It's as simple to overwhelm as any other APS probably. Shooting 4 Javelins at one tank is still cheaper than 1 tank.
Yeah, I get that, but this thing will cost under 5 million to make, Trophy costs 1 million domestically.
The problem is that your platoon needs to have those 4 Javelins and not just 2, and at the same time all of those 4 Javelins must have a line of fire on the tank with none of them being suppressed by the two other IFVs that would certainly happen to participate in a big enough assault. All of those Javelins also take time to lock onto their target and can malfunction.
Every SBCT platoon has at least three javelin CLUs and nine missiles, as well as six AT4s. If you think that every single US infantry platoon can't kill any OPFOR tank platoon, APS or not, in the advance then you're a moron.
>Three javelin CLUs
That's the nominal strength. Let's imagine the OPFOR are competent and first pound the position with artillery, then infantry screen with IFVs, and only then the MBT arrives. What are the chances you didn't lose one of these, and what are the chances another one of these isn't suppressed? Now better yet, what are the chances those guys that are spread out can communicate clearly on when to launch all of those Javelins synchronously so the APS can be overwhelmed?
Currently if you miss a single guy 2km out in the field with a Javelin your tank is gone. Needing to simultaneously use up all of your ATGMs to knock out a tank is a huge win in practice.
>shoot 4 javelins
this isn't a video game with infinite ammo. atgm squad IRL isn't lugging around 4 javelins
>they don't carry a crowbar, 3 handgun, 4 riffles, 2 shootgun, a grenade-launcher, a missile-launcher, 10 frag/smoke grenade, 5 proximity mines, 6 remote explosive, a recon-drone, a scuba diving-tank, the 12 security cards/key looted in the previous bunker plus the tablet.
It's like you guys don't want to win the war.
Next you'll tell me you don't even know to hijack anything from truck to aircraft or operate a tank and its turret by yourself.
>Shooting 4 Javelins at one tank
are you fricking moronic?
>muh cheaper
Not how war works. This now means you need to ahve four time sthe Javs coming up the entire logistics pipeline, and the squad suddenly has to carry four times the Jav ammo. Those are serious issues.
>just shoot 4 javelins at the same time bro
>Yeah bro I've done this in WR:RD quadstaking maglans bro it's a good idea
There is no APS on the Jaguar. Frogs are developing an APS called Prometheus based on previous work tho. And this thing is not an IFV either.
Then why does the Wiki state it will be equipped with an APS?
I doesn't. It has passive shot/missile detection device and smoke dispensers. Belgian ones will have IED jammers too. There is also supposedly space for growth.
Well, wouldn't be the first time Wikipedia got something wrong, you know, cuz the open contribution thing...
Yes, the turret is massive for a vehicle of its type, I bet they will have an easy time upgrading and adding equipment on that thing.
The definition of APS gets stretched. I've seen claims that the Type-99 has active protection because it has a jammer, a laser detector paired with a laser to blind the offending target, smoke (which can be automated by threat), and some other shit. But they don't have what people generally mean by AP, which is interception. They've made something like Trophy, an EFP system for destroying munitions, but it isn't out.
EFP systems are only good as a last ditch protection system anyhow. IDK how you make a better interception system that gets small enough though. Laser systems are still quite large. I can see lighter than air persistent drones playing a role though, in that sensors can catch any ATGM being launched and fire data off to the interception system.
Long term, I don't think MBTs will be sporting tons of AP. It probably makes more sense to have dedicated vehicles, including UGVs.
To me an APS is a hard kill system like Trophy or Iron Fist APS', but I guess my opinions don't matter.
>It probably makes more sense to have dedicated vehicles, including UGVs
That's an interesting thought and it makes sense , I don't know enough about the topic but I'd like to know more about how that would work.
If I'm understanding correcting you're saying there will be MBTs protected by some sort of electronic warfare/APS/jamming vehicle? If that's the case can APS on one vehicle protect another from things like ATGMs? Would a regular MBT have to stick close by the APS vehicle to be under it's protection umbrella? Would the APS vehicle have to be more armored than a regular tank, because it would seem like that vehicle would become the immediate priority target on any battlefield since if you knock it out multiple other vehicles are more vulnerable.
Like the Russian electronic warfare trucks, forgot the name?
Exactly, the more I think about it the more I wonder how that would work. In order for the tanks to be "safe" the MBTs would have to remain in range of the EW vehicle at all times, which isn't practical in real world conditions. You'd be trading what a tank is good at maneuver warfare for temporary safety until the EW vehicle gets blown up.
If APS is to be viable, it has to be mounted on each vehicle. I could see tanks going to a sort of all or nothing armor scheme where they have enough armor to defeat autocannon fire and the weight that is saved gets put into varying APS systems. That makes sense to me since modern cannon rounds blow through the armor anyway.
Judging by the latest tank prototypes, tanks are becoming more and more armoured and expensive, I doubt that separate electronic warfare would ever be viable because what happens if you need a tank in a commie block area and its thin soft head is exposed?
>I could see tanks going to a sort of all or nothing armor scheme w
Not so fast, soft skin boi.
https://www.joint-forces.com/defence-equipment-news/65051-nexter-eos-and-traak-win-french-larinae
The current theory about how to do this is based on the idea of overlapping umbrellas of protection, which are internetworked so that the most efficient way to counter a threat is used. That way your opponent can't just saturate the umbrella and deplete your most valuable interceptors.
For example, here is the Type 625, a new Chinese SHORAD vehicle. It provides SAMs for larger drones, helicopters, and low flying planes, but also has a 30mm autocannon with proximity fuse ammo for taking out more numerous elements that might be used in a saturation strike, e.g. loitering munitions. It has a radar but it will ideally also be getting data from other radar systems, or potentially even the T-99 MBT's sensors, as well as UAVs, fighters, high altitude balloons, satalites, etc. Not that all this is currently implemented, but it's the goal that all forces want to get to, totally integrated battle space data for coordinating defense and fire missions. I just use the T-625 because I had the picture, other countries are likely ahead on getting the datalink working, but China has been iterating on AD very quickly.
The T-625 fits one role, but it might also be deployed with a LW-30, which is a laser interceptor that is better able to take out small, fast targets.
For larger targets, you have your medium and long range SAMs appropriately far back, along with missile defense
These could cover an artillery battery as well.
My guess is that, within the next 10 years, tanks will start deploying with forward drone screens that are out to spot targets and detect incoming threats. This will tend to make engagement ranges go up, especially when paired with smart munitions. A dedicated AD vehicle can be moved around modularity whereas AP fixed to an MBT is stuck on the asset.
If interception gets good enough it will lead to specialization because you'll need to fire many munitions in a coordinated fashion to get through to a target.
>My guess is that, within the next 10 years, tanks will start deploying with forward drone screens that are out to spot targets and detect incoming threats.
Isn't that what Rheinemetal is doing?
>APS
learn the words "soft-kill" and "hard-kill"
also
>Wiki
Yes.
and BAe. You can buy a CV90 MkIV right now that comes with a spotter drone.
There is an active defense system, the Galix system same as on Leclercs, which is a bunch of sensors to detect atgm, a jammer and firing multispectrum smoke grenades towards the source of the ATGM detection automatically. It's a "soft-kill" system.
The prometheus is an evolution of that with a hard-kill projectile system.
This thing is a prototype.
Forces armées françaises received their first Jaguars like a year ago.
>explain to me how a French IFV has more advanced protection than US MBTs
Disinformation.
no clue what that (ifv?) is but it's gorgeous
Can APS stop artillery shells guided by quadcopter drones?
Since it's French, I assume it's meant to drive around Africa slapping thirdies with RPGs.
In a lower-intensity punch down like that investing in light vehicle APS generates more value, probably