Which is why this is the only rifle I want, it comes standard with a 20 inch barrel, which means my winchester white box 556 ammo can reach 3300fps and piece ar500 steel plates at 25 yards and less.
It's lightweight polymer, it has a removable barrel iirc, the weight is centered in the back which means my body requires less work to hold it. Formula for work is force multiplied by distance equals work.
Yeah
I'm also tired of AR-15s
which is why I'm not buying any semi-auto rifles for the foreseeable future.
>he doesn’t know
ngmi
the problem is for 99% of civilians, there's very little reason to own more than 1 or 2 centerfire semi-auto rifles. The current AR market is sustained by autists who need to have every possible variant and configuration they can afford*. Although at least this gun has enough novelty it'll probably be bought by people with a lot of money who can buy guns for memes. But for the average person, any advantages of a bullpup, are going to be out weighted by the cost and the fact it's coming from a company they've never heard of.
Yeah, I never saw the appeal of owning slight variations. I own a nice 10.5 I run suppressed and an original M&P 15 which I only keep because it was the first AR my dad, brother and I got. Thinking of getting a 20” upper and fixed stock to make it my ranch gun
Short AR with suppressor is fun
Long AR with scope is fun
AKM is fun
mp5 is fun
G3/FAL is fun
That’s a lot more than 1-2
I can tell you arrived here after 2020
/k/ommados aren't the average gun buyer though.
if you actually own all the guns your listed, you're in the group of people who can buy guns for the memes. Normal people aren't gonna go out and buy a $2k rifle if they already have a $700 M&P Sport that basically does the same thing.
>there's very little reason to own more than 1 or 2 centerfire semi-auto rifles
There's very little reason to possess many, many, many things. Here's why people possess them; there's less of a reason not to.
If you buy a nice watch, or precious metals, or a painting, or a rifle, you are trading buying power for an asset, one which you can enjoy for many years, enhances your time on Earth, and can be sold at any moment if you decide you want pretty much 100% of your money back. You won't always get 100%, but you often can, or more. When you do, you've essentially owned that asset for free.
>for 99% of civilians, there's very little reason to own more than 1 or 2 centerfire semi-auto rifles
There are plenty of reasons why the majority of civilians would own at least 3 centerfire rifles (excluding PCCs/PDWs), the problem is there's no compelling cartridge with the following features;
>thinner+shorter case than 223 for smaller mags, smaller gun
>lower recoil than 223
>more powerful than pistol ammo
>complete powder burn in 12-16" barrels
>2400fps muzzle velocity minimum
This would be an ideal home defense cartridge for people who live in areas where a missed shot should ideally not retain a ton of energy, but still want rifle-like wounding effectiveness within 100yds, 4"MPBR to 200yds, and still be far more effective and lower-recoil than pistol ammo at all ranges.
Something like 30Carbine thinned (not bottlenecked) to .257, or a rimless .22 K-hornet. So a sub-intermediate power class rifle cartridge; more powerful than the PDWs, easy to shoot, not intimidating for novices, not a flashbang from the barrel lengths which people actually use for home defense.
Honestly, a PS90 or some other 5.7x28mm carbine sounds like exactly what you're asking for.
Ar5 7 even.
5.7 is less powerful and much less useful than what I described because it's on the absurdly light-for-caliber end of the spectrum. When you go from 40-50gr .22 bullets you double the BC.
I'm talking about 50gr .224 or 75gr .257, with G1's of ~0.3, at 2400+.
+shorter case than 223 for smaller mags, smaller gun
recoil than 223
I can't imagine there's any signifcant market for that. .223 is already a small cartridge and the NFA is the main thing restricting smaller rifle sizes. For width, I can't imagine why any one would want a thinner gun than an AR-15. I'm sure some boutique shop makes uppers without foward assists and brass deflectors if someone was really into that.
And .223 is pretty much the absolute bottom of rifle cartridges you can go before just making a slight variant of 5.7
you can say that about almost anything, say motorcycles. The vast majority of people who are into motorcycles have 1 or 2 and most of the people who have more than that, usually collect old ones. They don't have 4 different 600cc naked bikes.
>And .223 is pretty much the absolute bottom of rifle cartridges you can go before just making a slight variant of 5.7
Even .22spitfire and 221 fireball are twice as powerful as 5.7x28. I don't think you know just how weak 5.7 is.
>Even .22spitfire and 221 fireball are twice as powerful as 5.7x28
the fact these rounds exist and are obscure just supports my point that there's no market for a rifle round below .223
When you factor in .223 being cheap for a rifle round, if this new round was introduced it'd just be the .30 super carry of rifles.
>the fact these rounds exist and are obscure just supports my point that there's no market for a rifle round below .223
No it doesn't, they're essentially the same width as .223, I explicitly said;
>the problem is there's no compelling cartridge with the following features
And I was right. There is no existing cartridge with the attributes I listed, and I am aware of 221 and 22spitfire. I'm also aware of 22Hornet, 22K-Hornet, 20Vartarg, 25-20, .218bee, .22tcm, etc. I'm describing something else in the upper range of that power class but with a narrow cartridge body and rimless. One experimental .22 cartridge existed but IIRC it used a non-standard primer diameter.
>.223 is already a small cartridge and the NFA is the main thing restricting smaller rifle sizes. For width, I can't imagine why any one would want a thinner gun than an AR-15.
I'm talking about every dimension. When you shrink the bolt face and cartridge length you shrink the rifle in every dimension.
Take the example of a theoretical .257 version of 30Carbine, the rim diameter would be about .300. The rim diameter of a 22 magnum is .300. The ammo would be miniscule from a magazine size perspective, a 10-round rotary mag would essentially just be a lengthened Ruger mag. A 30-round mag wouldn't protrude past the pistol grip of any firearm it was chambered for.
But yes, you are right in mentioning that the reason why the 223 AR meta is so solid is because of the NFA. Also barely anyone knows about the cheek pistol technique, which would work well for this chambered in a large-frame pistol.
It would be nice to have a new ammo that has complete powder burn in 16 inches of barrel while at the same time exceeding 3300fps, I would imagine it would have to be a 556 case length with a 35gr bullet.
I didn't want more than one AR-15 until the government said they wanted to ban the purchase of AR-15s.
Now I have 7
buy an ad, we're not buying the same rifle 3 times in a row
Winchester whitebox is not reaching 3300 fps from a 20" barrel. And even actual m193 that will reach that velocity fired from a 20" barrel will not penetrate steel plates.
Fool you are, because my winchester white box 556 ammo... out of a 20 inch barrel, has always pierced ar500 steel plate body armor. Always anon, A-L-W-A-Y-S. Which is why I'm buying it, since all ar15's only come with 16 inch barrels, probably due to the government secretly ordering gun company ceos they have black mail on...to not produce 20 inch barrel ar15's so the people can't take advantage of the naturally armor piercing effects of 5.56 NATO in preparation for the future public civil war against the government and the secret war against police officers and federal agents.
How many soldiers, police officers and federal agents are gonna be wearing AR500 steel plates?
>probably due to the government secretly ordering gun company ceos they have black mail on...to not produce 20 inch barrel ar15's
completely detached from reality.
The CIA, FBI, and Mossad are publicly known for holding blackmail on people in order to control them, due to internal blacked out memos. I don't understand how someone can be so stupid.
Can we see them?
>ugh its so obvious i dont even need to post an example!
Forgive my insolence
looks cool except that gay ass leaf on the front.
>556
Missed opportunity to get it in a good caliber (308). Did the military switching back to battle rifle/marksman rifle calibers not signal anything to you varmintcucks?
Civilian 308 can never pierce ar500 body armor...but 556 out of a 20 inch barrel can.
>Civilian 308 can never pierce ar500 body armor...but 556 out of a 20 inch barrel can.
I've seen both penetrate IIIA armor but neither of the cartridges can penetrate IV armor so ... riddle your home invader's whole body with holes, shoot him in the neck, face, gut, groin, shoulder, kneecaps
The semi automatic shotgun with 3 inch long 00 buck shells always immobilizes police officers, even if they wear Kevlar or steel, due to the pellets hitting non vitals.
Why are we shooting cops?
Who do you think the grabbers send? Not college marxists.
The grabber dont send anyone
Do you need a reason?
IIIA is soft armor. III is between IIIA and IV
I've got an MDR I like and I'm interested in it if someone makes a 300bo SBR option for it, but I'm going to wait for a good number of reviews anyway. You're a fool if you buy any gun, let alone a DT gun, day one.
Also I'll add I'm disappointed they didn't design it along with their quad mags and do it in 6arc or 6max.
>You're a fool if you buy any gun, let alone a DT gun, day one.
Thank you for the advice on this one, I will wait a year after it releases then proceed to buy one, I completely forgot about new release problems.
wtf can get through IV ive seen youtube video of it stopping fricking 300 win mag
AP .50 BMG, AP .375 cheytac, AP .412 Barrett, AP .338 lapua magnum, AP .338 Norma magnum, etc.
So basically nothing
45acp
KEK
>So basically nothing
Pretty much. With armor that good you just gotta shoot around it rather than at it. A chest plate won't save your home invader/attacker from a bullet right between the eyes, the carotid artery, femoral artery, brachial artery, etc.
I recall the vid of the guy testing .300winmag reloaded with steelcore ap projectiles, and the plates stopped it, but i don't think ive seen anyone test the calibre with real tungsten ap, which i would hazard a guess has a fair chance of going through.
>bullpups suck ass
>55 gr is shit for 5.56
KYS
suck ass
state your reasoning
His favorite youtuber said so.
My struggle with trying to figure out if I want brn180, jakl, or akm. At this rate I might as well wait for vuk to be the mixture of them. I only own pcc rifles.
The vuk is no different from a regular ass jakl except it has a shitty short rail for morons to basedjak over an exposed gas tube and front sight.
Price of not looking like we have scar at home, to instead be we have ak12 at home. I wish the brn180 would have a normal retro upper instead of the generic tactical one. They have a retro lower and stock available.
Honestly really liking the SA80 bullpup brn180 body kit, aestheticly at least.
I'm glad it exists but idk much about it and the over all cost to build it is something. Hoping the jakl comparison with the oclan is cheaper. Still end of the day I'm split trying to decide on a 5.56/223 rifle between the three non ar options that I've looked into. I only want to spend about 1k-1.3k though.
The jakl is more expensive as an upper, I dont dig the reciprocating charging handle on the brn180, ill be getting the desert tech WLVRN once the initial reviews are out.
I would just stick to saving money for the desert tech wlvrn, with the 20 inch barrel you can use it for hunting, and if you use it in self defense you get it back in 6 months. It's small as frick even with the 20 inch, for everything else I'd use a g19 or suppressed g21
>I'm tired of ar15's
>doesn't own an ar15 or any rifle for that matter
lol lmao
stfu mormon shill I'm not buying that for $2500
the "triad" chassis for ar15 uppers seems pretty cool but I have not looked much into it
>I'm tired of ar15's [sic]
Reject modernity, embrace tradition. Take the fuddpill.
>imagine not picking the best bullpup
I want a classic one for no other reason than growing up on CS Source.
>nato stock
My STANAG mags aint gonna sit around the house like NEETs all day long
Problem solved.
The AUG is shitty compared to moderen bullpups like the X95 and I'm tired of people who don't even own a bullpup pretending its not.
Baste and an inconvenient truth pilled.
Aug still has more sovl though.
Wish they kept the side eject as an option but still cool
I remember the ceo saying that the reason they switched to side eject was that it was difficult to make a reliable gun with a forward eject system so they switched to side eject. They just wanted to make it more reliable
>winchester white box 556 ammo
My LGS keeps telling me to avoid this ammo. Are they shit?
White box is the fastest ammo available, it's able to break 3300fps in a 20 inch barrel. Other ammo companies may make more accurate fmj ammo, but are 200fps slow. You need atleast 3250fps to pierce a person wearing ar500 steel plates, so with white box, a 20 inch barrel, and being within 25 yards, you will pierce through their plates. Winchester white box is the best for home defense since it's the fastest, fragments violently, and pierces ar500 all within 25 yards. Once it reaches 3200fps at 50 yards it won't pierce shit, it just makes dents on ar500.
Post your chrono data.
Use the internet, you're on it.
whitebox is shit and the odds of you getting into a <25yrds encounter with somone wearing steel plates is astronomically low and no reason to buy such dirty shitty ammo.
*0 to 50 yards, most urban combat falls inbetween 100 yards, it's a good investment.
Tried it, didnt like it, its dirty, shitty ammo.
Switched to the greens, because it makes muh pp herd, and the steel core makes up for the slight loss in veloctity (depending on the type of plates)
>Do my research, and you better come to the same conclusions as me
Nu
M193 doesn't penetrate ar500 plates, it never will, due to it not being homogenous, the lead crushes into the steel core which widens the bullet upon impact there preventing it from penetrating ar500. Only pure lead fmj can do it since it's homogenous and doesn't collapse into itself when making contact with the steel plate.
Steel cores do better against polymer plates though, so its a tradeoff, but a largely irrelevant one, because not many people are wearing either steel or polymer plates.
Buy an ar500 plate, set it at 50 yards. Using a 20inch barrel, shoot it with green steel core and then shoot it with winchester white box 55gr fmj, the white box will pierce while the m855 green will not pierce.
Who actually wears steel though? Its heavy as frick and you die to spalling even if it stops the bullet.
Just wrap steel in duct tape it's good for 50 rounds. Ceramic only take 4 or 5 hits and you still feel the bullet impact, polymer takes 30 but you still feel the kinetic energy, only with steel do you not feel the impact and it keeps on going.
I get what youre saying, but I have a heavy pack to carry, so no i do not think i will be buying heavy steel plates, and then wrapping them in even more weight, ty.
Post your data.
Commercial data is always iffy and mostly for marketing.
What it does in your rifle is the only data trusted. If your claiming it breaks 3300 then you should be able to post proof.
Use the internet
https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/best-5-56-ammo/
This dude got 3240fps using a 16 inch barrel, from winchester white box 55gr fmj, just add 25 fps per inch and you easily get past 3300fps in 20 inches.
Velocity isnt the only factor in penetration, shooting bulkpack leadcore fmj's isnt the answer to the plates problem.
Armor piercing is cool and all but have you ever thought how vulnerable the lower abdomen and pelvic area is?
>$2.5k
Better come with the fricking ACOG