I'll never forgive the Americans for pussied out and sent carriers to sink Yamato instead of sending Iowa.
I'll never forgive the Americans for pussied out and sent carriers to sink Yamato instead of sending Iowa.
I'll never forgive the Americans for pussied out and sent carriers to sink Yamato instead of sending Iowa.
We don't care what you think.
We could have had the greatest battleship VS battleship of naval history!
That honour is reserved for real countries.
>real countries
Yuropean shitholes, bro?
lol, get fricked slave
Writhe in pain, b***h
Blame Halsey for not splitting his force and leaving the BBs behind to cover the strait that night. He could have replicated Kinkaid's feat. Of course, based on the info he had, it looked like Kurita had already gone home, and that it was safe to wipe out the decoy fleet and finish off the carrier threat for good... but, he still should have left some ships in place.
Why are you talking about history as if it were the latest netflix series to disappoint you?
I am more disappointed by the Kraut High Seas Fleet refusing to commit an hero and suicide itself against the Grand Fleet a second time for the eternal glory of Germland when ordered but they decided to do a communist revolt instead. It would have been such a one sided curbstomp I would hold it against the Krauts for eternity.
Should have sent a platoon of UDTs to seize the ship, hoist Old Glory up high, and start using her shell the Home Islands.
Change my mind.
Should’ve asked the Captain of the USS Barb if he wanted a whack it.
>Japanese are obviously sending Yamato for some FOR TEH EMPEROR HONORBLE DEATH
>Should we appease them and give them a duel to a death that could put our ships at risk
>No she eats plane spam so they can understand how impotent they really are
Yamato was rivet construction, torpedos would never been able to sink it this is obvious given how poor the Bradleys performed in the Gulf war making America lose said war.
incorrect accounting for there being nonphysical evidence for the battle of peak oil in 6 months
>rivet construction
So was Titanic
Except Torpedoes are what sunk the Yamato you idiot.
>He doesn't know
Yamato actually did have some arc weld construction. Mainly in the superstructure but they were too scared to do the entire thing after some massive problems with their initial attempts at all weld ships.
>Glorious last stand vs 400+ carrier aircraft
The Yamato did alright, better than being sniped by a faster and more accurate Iowa.
they actually did have a line of battleships to catch the yamaro if she managed to survive the plane spam
although with 6 battleships waiting for her and already forming a line of battle, it wouldnt really have been a battle
maybe the yamato taking one of them out with her opening salvo, followed by the other five sailling into close range and blasting her to pieces from all sides
iowa cant actually penetrate the yamato at standoff range
to get past yamatos citadel requires getting into within effective range of their optical range finder
so it would actually be a really boring battle of the iowa just whittling down the yamatos less-well protected super structure over the course of an entire day by sailling evasive maneuvers and user her FCS to fire while zig-zagging
I was under the impression that the late-war AP shells available to the Iowa were able to penetrate anywhere except Yamato's turret face armor from a great enough range as to make it basically impossible for her to retaliate.
the iowas critical range against the yamato, at least according to the US navy, is about 23miles
this is well within the accurate ranges of both the yamato and the iowa
with 6 battleships with superior radar assisted FC they would most certainly hit ship many times weakening armor
>23miles this is well within the accurate ranges
longest STRADDLE was 20 miles
https://www.battleshipnewjersey.org/the-ship/full-history/
why do you have to be such a Black person?
>Iowas can't penetrate Yamato
This moronation has been disproven weebs
the iowa can penetrate the yamato at close range
the problem of course, is that the iowa would need to sail to point blank range, which is where the test in your pic was conducted
but the yamato did have a zone of immunity where her citadel could not be defeated by the iowas guns, while the iowa had no correspnding zone of immunity except at very long range
so in a daylight battle, the iowa would need to sail past a distance where the yamato can defeat her armor, but the iowa cannot defeat theirs
>flee's from 2 destroyers
yamato deserved a better crew.
i thought yamato's death was pretty interesting king kong swatting at planes style
maybe mushashi could have gone down swinging against a bb
Sucks, but the Japanese also prevented the largest amphibious invasion in history by surrendering
Feels bad man
>Captcha: DD84T
Jews shit on Emperor as detached but IMO he did masterful job of playing a very weak hand to preserve his nation and people.
He opened up for DMac (who they had of course studied) to prevent israelites of USSR from joining an invasion.
Japs would also be aware that Truman was a low class israelite so he would allow "Soviets" to help with invasion because US voters would be averse to sort of losses required to dig out Japs in Japan.
10yrs on by 1955 it could be argued that Japan came out of WW2 better than any nation except the israelites. By 1955 racial strife was being pushed in USA but Japan was getting all the best parts of USA and mostly staying intact under free protection of USA, and Japs were moving right back into many markets of Co-property org of pre-war.
Contrast with what Brit and other royals did to their nations post WW2.
I suppose you also considered it dishonorable to shoot a charging jap instead of letting him close in and honorably dueling rifle butt to katana
When will we invent wave force armor and go back to battleships?
based on how the 155mm artillery rounds with modern built-in guidance get their range increased by ~50%, if that were applied to this then we could have had 50 mile range Yamatos fricking up entire cities
If the SLRC program didn't get canned a few weeks ago we could've seen the return of BBs with 13-inch, 1,150-mile superguns. The DoD would rather buy more gay LRASMs and Tomahawk Block VBs than bring back the good old days.
>Complains about the Iowa
>Posts a picture of the Wisconsin
Anon, I would like to extend my gratitude for this absolutely perfect summary of /k/ you made with your post.
I wonder how stupidly far you could extend the range of a 16 inch gun with modern technology.
>Higher calibre barrel
>Sub-caliber shell (IE 8 inch in a sabot)
>Base bleed
>RAP
>Guided with lofted trajectory
i could see implementation of bunker buster/penetrator munitions in to 16 inch guns
Halsey did dispatch Iowa and New Jersey to try to cut off Kurita's retreat back through the San Bernardino strait after the battle off Samar. Unfortunately he hesitated initially after receiving the distress calls and was further delayed by the need to refuel his destroyers. Otherwise TF34 could have arrived in time to cross the T with Iowa, New Jersey, Washington, and Alabama.
>If TF 34 had been detached a few hours earlier, after Kinkaid's first urgent request for help, and had left the destroyers behind, since their fueling caused a delay of over two hours and a half, a powerful battle line of six modern battleships under the command of Admiral Lee, the most experienced battle squadron commander in the Navy, would have arrived off San Bernardino Strait in time to have clashed with Kurita's Center Force.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/task_force_34.htm
>two Iowa class, an NC class, and a SoDak class vs Yammy, Nagato, Kongo, and Haruna, along with their escorts
Would have been amazing, but had the remaining Jap DD's have any tops left, the American ships would have been in some serious danger
Since it would have been a night engagement I think initially it would have strongly favored the US BBs. However there were enough Jap ships remaining that some would be able to close the range and although the DDs would have been low on torps the cruisers likely still had most of theirs. It would have been up to the American DDs to prevent that from happening.
Drach has a couple good videos about both this, and an alt history where Lee doesn't decline battle after the Philippine Sea.
Why would America send an overgrown battlecruiser against the most powerful warship ever built?
Iowa would have gotten absolutely raped by Yamato, like the HMS Hood did going up against Bismarck.
>Why would America send an overgrown battlecruiser against the most powerful warship ever built?
fast battleship, actually
>Iowa would have gotten absolutely raped by Yamato, like the HMS Hood did going up against Bismarck.
only in a daylight surface battle
and only if the iowa doesnt use its decisive 5kt advantage to simply avoid fighting the yamato under unideal conditions
yamato is reliant on its (admittedly excellent) optical sights
its decimetric radar could only compute for range and its FCS could only plot a solution based on a straight-line trajectory
so the yamato cant evade and fire (accurately) simultaneously, while the iowa can
even if the iowa doesnt ever enter to within close range of the yamato, the yamato cant really engage the iowa if the iowa doesnt allow it
at night is a different story
true blind fire combined with radar sighting means the iowa can sail to nearly pointblank and just rake the yamato head to toe before the yamato can even shine its flares
>ITT, a balanced armor/firepwoer design is now a "glorified battlecruiser"
And yes, that's what the Iowas were. Then superheavy AP got introduced.
Of course, the one problem with that is that a wartime Iowa wouldn't know about being outgunned in that duel. Thanks to japanese disinfo efforts, the USN believed the Yamatos to be toting 40cm guns, not 46cm, and only learned about it after the war.
(Also, Yamato did engage USS Gambier Bay accurately while blind-firing radar-only through a smokescreen at Samar, which rather casts doubt on her being unable to do radar-only gunnery. IIRC the documentation showing that she couldn't do it was from 1943, and there's no hard info on any further refits they may have done after that.)
That was from a test shot at IIRC something like 500 yards. Which uh... let's just say by that point your worry isn't wether you can penetrate each others armor anymore, but rather the imminent collission.
>(Also, Yamato did engage USS Gambier Bay accurately while blind-firing radar-only through a smokescreen at Samar, which rather casts doubt on her being unable to do radar-only gunnery. IIRC the documentation showing that she couldn't do it was from 1943, and there's no hard info on any further refits they may have done after that.)
Yamato did have radar fire direction, it was just very limited
Gambier bay was a slow moving escort carrier, so would have been possible to get hits in even with its older FCS
Ranging would have been the only thing needed to hit the gambier bay
Against a fast movin target, yamatos radar had no track function, so they would need to manually re calculate everytime the iowa zigged or zagged
At night, radar would only tell range and direction and would need star shells to finish the job
Yamato FCS was also only capable of partial solutions, based on a straight line path for both yamato and iowa
So if it takes evasive action it cant fire
>Blindfiring through smokescreen
Everybody shot at gambier baby you idiot. All of the ships at Samar had at least search radar that could see through smoke. It's just for the Japanese ships the range was limited. The USN also used search radar to direct their guns in 1942 and the first half of 1943. Japan had nothing like the Mark 8 radar or the mark 12 radar gun fire control.
First off that's only turret armor. You guys once again prove that you are morons.
Yamato's spiritual successor is here
So she too will be a floating officers' club that only sees real combat once and ends up running away from massively weaker opponents?
It's possible since they've got their "Drone carrier" in the works and this will dominate the future of naval warfare by being much smaller (45-50k tonnes) and thus cheaper to build/maintain whilst still being able to launch AWACS and drones thanks to EMALS
My sides just disintegrated like a Chinese high rise
Looks like a render in Unreal Engine.
You know it's a PLA video when you see all that smog fricking up the camera and blurring the horizon into the sky
>Battlecruiser vs BB
Iowa would be demolished.
Good I hate moronic Black folk like you shitting up every board
Fast battleships are not battlecruisers, you prolapsed homosexual.
If it is armed with capital ship sized guns and goes faster 25 knots it is a battlecruiser.So Iowa vs Yamato is a battlecruiser vs battlecruiser fight.
The BC designation refers to a warship with the guns of a battleship, and the ARMOR of a cruiser. Early BCs were only a few knots faster than a BB, but this was considered enough that they could match enemy cruisers, which was what they were originally designed to deal with.
I have seen people claim that the Iowas were BCs because their armor supposedly wasn't thick enough to stop an AP round from their own guns, but I've never seen anyone claim that they were BCs because they could do 30kts.
It's a moronic arse pull based on a defunct definition of Battle cruiser from the Royal Navy.
The same definition that is why people think Hood is a BC rather than a Fast Battleship
The Hood is classified as a Battle Cruiser instead of a fast Battleship because in the quintessential manner of a Battle Cruiser, she fricking exploded.
>because in the quintessential manner of a Battle Cruiser, she fricking exploded.
Mutsu confirmed to be a battlecruiser then.
so much so that she didn't even have to get hit to explode
She Exploded to Golden BB hitting in the perfect place.
If she where a battle-cruiser in terms of armour she would have been about 7k tons lighter, Her armour was only marginally lighter than Warspite, and that was because they used an inclined belt just like Iowa later did
hood was classified ad a fully armored battle cruiser after refit, because bongistan classified anything amerimutts would call a fast battle ship as a battle cruiser
You realize by the definition you just gave Yamato is also a Battlecruiser right?
That is why the WW1 British definistion doesn't work in WW2
Why you think that he said that
>So Iowa vs Yamato is a battlecruiser vs battlecruiser fight.
A Battlecruiser is a ship with battleship guns and cruiser armor, or I suppose cruiser guns and battleship armor, though that version isn't commonly used.
And thus America had less than 500k deaths in that war while having ~17M men in uniform, instead of 25M deaths
Hijacking this thread to say, I'll never forgive FDR, Nimitz and King for not stuffing Halsey and MacArthur into Iowa's guns and firing them to kingdom come. It's criminal that these two got to enjoy so much fame.
Great Uncle, Marine Colonel. b***hed about McAuthor until the day he died. I didn't understand until I got older.
Lost use of his legs after being run over by a tank on Peleliu by the Japanese.
Redpill me on Halsey and MacArthur
MacArthur - army version of Halsey
Halsey - navy version of MacArthur
Of course, that is somewhat uncharitable, MacArthur seems to have been a Beatty type person: fricks most of his shit up during the war but after that gets one or two occasions during which he was absolutely right but was ignored by the idiots in charge, whereas Halsey doesn't really have such redeeming features.
macarthur is one big incompetent nincompoop with a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
whose rare moments of tactical brilliance and his massive PR department has made him into something of a hero, rather undeservedly
>totally ignored intel reports of japanese aggression, planes still parked wingtip to wingtip, despite having been extremely vocal about warplan rainbow and demanding things go his way
>spread forces way too thin in the 41 philippine campaign, resulting in being undersupplied when they withdrew to bataan, preventing them from holding out
>promised he shall return, and took a sub to australia, while the men at corregidor had to resort to eating monkey
>korean war, is told the chinese are massing at the border
>totally ignores it and pushes his already stretched thin forces straight to the chinese border
>somehow surprised by a massive chinese offensive, despite clashes with chinese troops already occuring beforehand
>demands nukes be used on china, gets fired, replaced
>general ridgeway then holds the line at the 38th parallel with the same force that had earlier failed macarthur using the fabled technique of not over extending
Halsey - egoistic gloryhound who's idiocy let to battle of Samar being bunch of CVEs, DDs, and DEs against half of IJN just because he wanted the status of being the man who finished Kido Butai, spends hour seething in place when he gets reprimanded for abandoning his post due to said desire. Also couldn't stop sailing into typhoons but that is pretty tame when compared to previously mentioned thing.
While Halsey should have left behind some ships at the San Bernardino strait, his decision to go north was correct, the northern force was unironically a bigger threat than the center force.
It was a carrier group with few aircraft. There was no way the IJN had recovered from the battle of the philipine sea.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that the northern force was a big threat, I'm saying that the center force was so pathetic that it was even less of a threat than a couple of underequipped carriers. The battle of the Sibuyan Sea proved this.
Wasn't northern force just a decoy? Battle off Samar could have gone a lot differently if they realized they were fighting destroyers early on.
>few aircraft
Which the USN didn't know.
Hindsight.
Some of them figured it out.
>He made mistakes but they weren't that serious
I'd call losing 3 destroyers and 790 men a slightly serious mistake. There's the whole Taffy 3 business. If Taffy 3 didn't manage to hold on and they managed to bomb the transport and supply ships, it'd have set back the entire campaign for months.
It's only divine intervention that the USA didn't find the Kido Butai right after Pearl Harbor. I bet my right testicle Halsey would try to charge them and pretty much wipe out what was left of the Pacific fleet.
Mitscher fricked up worse at just Midway.
MacArthur governed Japan so effectively because his role as boisterous strongman is what Japan had experienced for centuries under the Shogunates of various forms.
Japan's Samurai and Daimyo weren't a "military aristocracy" in the western sense, because they had a Chinese idea of aristocracy as refined court officials aka the Bu, and they were contrasted with the practically barbarian warrior class the Bun. Through various wars the warrior class gradually gained more and more power until the end of the Sengoku period when the authority of the Confucian court system headed by the Emperor was broken completely and the new dominant class of Daimyo was mostly composed of former Samurai. Thus during Japan's peaceful golden age, it was ruled by a powerless emperor representing the soul of the Japanese people symbolically, and a half-barbaric warlord Shogun and his similarly barbaric Daimyo allies who held all real political power. Japanese culture mind-tricked itself into thinking this was the best thing ever and more or less re-created it in the 30s and 40s.
MacArthur was rock hard for being a military dictator and filled the role Japan expected him to perfectly. He wasn't by any stretch a good general, but he sure was a good Shogun.
Halsey was kickass. He had the fighting attitude that not everyone had early on. He made mistakes but they weren't that serious; hindsight makes his mistakes look worse.
MacA was a fricking idiot who fricked up left and right, even fricking up his own planning. His only positives were copying the flanking landings the Japanese used on him, and his administration of Japan after the war.
He also somehow or other wound up with some very smart people under him, and apparently cut them a deal: they got to do whatever they felt was necessary, regardless of whether it was approved by higher authorities, and he got to claim total credit for whatever worked. Also, unlike many other generals, he seemed to listen to intel officer assigned to feed him sanitized Purple info.
So, he was a jerk, a moron, and was completely blinded by his own ego, but he was just smart enough to let better men do the work as long as he got all the credit for it.
>Halsey was kickass. He had the fighting attitude that not everyone had early on. He made mistakes but they weren't that serious
>pouting for 4 hours before sending a relief because you got insulted by the tone of the message
don't bring a knife to a gun fight
You can blame a buttmad Admiral Mitscher for that as he disobeyed orders to prove the carrier was superior to the battleship.
>Upon receiving contact reports early on 7 April, Spruance ordered Task Force 54, which consisted mostly of modernized Standard-type battleships under the command of Rear Admiral Morton Deyo (which were engaged in shore bombardment), to intercept and destroy the Japanese sortie. Deyo moved to execute his orders, but Vice Admiral Marc A. Mitscher, who commanded Task Force 58, preempted Spruance and Deyo by launching a massive air strike from his carriers, without informing Spruance until after the launches were completed
So he prevented moronation.
Yamato would have fought the Colorados and three other Super dreadnoughts not the Iowas. Fricking moron learn your history.
>So he prevented moronation.
Exactly. Fighting BB to BB is a stupid thing to do when you can just swarm it with cheap planes. There is a reason that they were considered an outdated concept even during WWII. The doctrine switched so hard to carriers and lighter escorts so fast everyones head spun.
BBs have their uses in closed seas like the Medditerrean and North Atlantic. They still need that air cover though.
I love Yamato so much, bros
Not as much as barnacles love the Yamato
I'll never forgive the Japanese for pussying out and an heroing every time they were losing. Shamefur dispray
Anyone with taste knows the USS Washington is the best.
This might be off-topic but what is a good war movie focused primarily on the navy? Preferably more modern than ww2 but those are ok too?
Greyhound was released recently and was surprisingly accurate in it's depiction.
Outside of WW2, watch Master and Commander, Admiral Yi.
>I'll never forgive the Americans for pussied out and sent carriers to sink Yamato instead of sending Iowa.
True, Americans were dishonorable, not going mano a mano with them, when the samurai came forth alone with only his blade
The bloodhound sniffed grass
That's because your idea of war is childish and stupid. Why not pretend your scenario since you'll never goto war? Cartoons are fun. You should stick to them.
>Champion warfare refers to a type of battle, most commonly found in the epic poetry and myth of ancient history, in which the outcome of the conflict is determined by single combat, an individual duel between the best soldiers ("champions") from each opposing army. Champion warfare can also refer to a battle in which armies actually engage, but champions within the armies fight so effectively as to single-handedly carry the sway of battle, such as in the Iliad.
>poetry and myth
If you've ever been in a gang fight you'll know there's lots of truth in that
or hell, an MMORPG clan
Reminder that Japan ultimately won the 20th century because America has massive urban decay, violent crime, racial enmity, uncontrolled illegal immigration, rampant homelessness, and at least two generations (millennials and zoomers) completely brainwashed by Russo-Chinese agitprop that tells them it is normal to cut your penis off and take children to gay strip clubs.
You are crazy person
damn probably should've have bombed pearl harbor then huh
THIS is what they should've sent....
Here's how moronic you are, OP. Imagine you go to the bar one night after work and you see a roided-out gigga homie running towards you screaming that he's going to rape you, kill you, and rape you again, in that order. You're perfectly capable of fighting hand to hand, but you're smaller than he is, not by a lot, but he is taller and heavier than you are. Do you engage him in an honorable duel of hand-to-hand combat, or do you pull your conceal carry and drop him like a sack of potatoes with one or two trigger pulls?
God, you are moronic. This thread is moronic. This board, is moronic. (you) Re moronic.
>anime mooks are so badly designed
But occasionally anime produces something neat.
True
Battleships are a meme, and a waste of good steel, just build torpedo boats.
>just build torpedo boats.
torpedo boats are primarily coastal craft, and would only really be able to defeat battleships if they can get close enough to launch torpedoes in the first place
when it comes to bluewater fleet engagements, there really wasnt an alternative to BBs until carriers proved themselves
which would be hard due to destroyers being designed specifically to destroy torpedo boats
they did the job so well that they ended up replacing torpedo boats entirely in the torpedo launch role
>Son, the "fog of war" doesn't mean "we don't know anything", it means "there are 'analysts who figured out' that the enemy could be anywhere from India to Alaska, with the strength of ten fully-armed fleet carriers or none, but we DON'T KNOW FOR SURE". after the battle is over you find out that "some of them" were right and some of them were wrong, but the point is, you don't know. hence why it's moronic to do what many histories and conspiracists do, which is point at the one analysis that happened to be correct and say "see we knew all along".
It's more like ignored information and doubts to leave them open to catastrophe, which could have easily been avoided.
>It's more like ignored information and doubts to leave them open to catastrophe, which could have easily been avoided
Uhuh yeah
And if it were you you'd certainly do a better job amirite
You've never been in a complex situation before and had to make a call amidst a huge flood of conflicting data, otherwise you wouldn't talk such tripe
Fog of war could lead to hilariously inaccurate estimates. From a collection of Midway AARs:
>At 1753 a photographic group of 2 VSB was launched for photo mission over burning heavy cruiser (MOGAMI). This group landed aboard at 2107 after a successful flight. A close scrutiny of the excellent photographs, the observations of an experienced photographer, and a direct comparison with our 8 inch cruisers, leads to the firm belief that this MOGAMI Class heavy cruiser is in reality a battle cruiser of at least 20,000 tons, mounting 11 or 12 inch guns.
The Japanese wanted a samurai's death for the Yamato. We game them a Japanese's death.