If you’re not hopping in and out of vehicles and don’t live in a city is there any reason why a 20” ar isn’t the most practical choice for a civilian?
If youre not hopping in and out of vehicles and dont live in a city is there any reason why a 20 ar isnt the most practical choice for a c...
because
Heavier I suppose
20" faxon gunner (not even a true pencil profile) weighs as much as a 14.5" govt profile barrel
It might only be 4" (that's what she said), but weight is a factor to consider if you're gonna be lugging the thing through wilderness all day. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.
Also, even if you don't live in a city, you still might be clearing rooms. Small towns are comprised of buildings, so if you do have to do any doorkicking/0per8r stuff I can only imagine how dead your arms would be after going room to room all day with a 20" rifle.
Also the velocity difference between 16" and 20" is not going to be appreciable at the ranges your average chucklefrick is going to be getting engaged at.
Honestly though, in a world where you can build a rifle for $400-$450 (before optics) its pretty easy to have multiple guns for multiple use cases. I have a standard 16" AR for general use, a 10.5" SBR with a folding stock for concealability, and an 18" .50 Beowulf for absolutely wrecking shit.
because SBRs and pistols are pretty chill
i have a house with walls and shooting Black person tourists looking for a free tv 5 feet away is my most likely use case
You shoot through the walls. Problem solved. Hear a suspicious noise in the kitchen? Rake the wall. Hear something downstairs? Start shooting through the bed. Fire superiority b***h!
5.56 is notorious for tumbling/fragmenting when passing through drywall
source?
So you can rip jagged keyholes through the nog burglar. Where's the problem again?
I'd rather use a triangular bayonet for that
What is this shit? Stop making these threads it has nothing to do with Ukraine.
heres the you for your bait thread
based, OP confirmed russian shill diverting attention
I hope you fall down the stairs while you argue with your dead about your deadname
This, vatniks have been spamming threads that have nothing to do with Ukraine for over a decade now
>TFW you use a 12.5 with a 8" suppressor
Brother
Dub trips of niners both in the same thread. Ain't that something?
14.5 with a 5 inch suppressor is the true redpill.
b***h built like mewtwo
who dat
tfw i'm building a 12.5" with an aem5 right now
We should all hang out
>that primary arms red dot
uhhhh
Its actually a holosun you Bigc**t
>it's not that 100 dollar red dot, it's this 100 dollar red dot
alright i guess
refer to
It handles more like a rifle than a carbine at that length, much more so if you have a can on it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>BUT
some people feel that if you're going to have a rifle rifle, you might as well get a bigger caliber.
I live in said situation, I'm happy with my 16" 5.56 and 20" 308. 308 is a beeg boi with the nomad l on though lol.
M855 out of a 20” is essentially a battle rifle
Depends on the twist
Black person M855 out of a 20" barrel is only going ~117FPS faster than in a 16"
So, it's faster then.
Based swiss AK enjoyer
>for me it is 417
Now do velocity @ 100, 200, 500 and 800 yards.
Do you think it's gonna make a real difference?
Just asking to compare ballistics in different barrels at different distances.
.308 is great at any range, but losing energy means losing power in longer shots.
The energy lost over distance is proportional given the same bullet having the same shape. losing energy is losing energy, a shorter barrel is equivalent to a being a bit further away
How fast is the bullet from the 16" moving compared to the 20"? Ill take the spreadsheets and compare it here for scientific purposes. Should take a while.
Between 80 and 120 fps faster, depending on the load. Use google.
It'll be a 100 fps difference each time unless the bullet magically gets heavier or lighter mid-flight
Close, anon. It would be (very close to) 100 fps difference after 1 second, 2 seconds, etc. but faster bullet would reach 500 yards faster than the slower one, thus at, lets say 500 yards, it would lose a bit less fps. Those are still very insignificant differences tho
>half the muzzle energy
>essentially a battle rifle
This shithole fricking site.
You could have picked any other bullet and made your case. But really? M855?m
bro no, m193. Light bullet+ ultra fast velocity=Flesh liquification .
Unbelievably moronic. have another (you)
i r8 8/8
I like them with a slower twist because the lighter grain ammo will blast right through level IV plates.
Dunno, I like my lightweight 20" barrel a lot more than my stupid government profile 16". One day I'll get around to a 10.5" but I'm satisfied for now.
That's just real tasteful, anon. No fat on that rifle. Everything it needs, nothing it doesn't. A true minute man gun.
I like where your head is at.
What twist is on that lead pusher?
Faxon gunner profile 1:8 twist. The only downside is it's not chrome lined, but otherwise it's excellent.
Nice. I got mine and put on a V7 lightweight handguard for a very light 20" upper.
How did you mount that light switch? Glue?
I used that gray double sided foam tape stuff to hold it down then used the glue to shim it up so it won't wiggle itself free with use. It's worked well so far.
nice gun anon
is that the set from blackgunswood
looks like it
looks really nice but they wont mail it outside of the US
maybe ask for it next sekret santa if you don't have any amerikwan frends u trust to buy for u
>amerikwan
>kwa
Bantuposting? On my /k/?
sorry, slava ukraine death to vatnik
Nothing about Ukr/Rus, just happy to see use of "kwa" spreading. It's my favorite little vocab meme of the last few years. It's concise and loaded with implied derision, beyond the mere literal translation of "Nation" or "State"
I would love to see what this looks like with an acog
>No carry handle
>No acog, old school tube red dot, or mini prism mounted to said carry handle
Ruined.
Also how fricking long is that barrel? 25 inches?
I tried
holy shit where do I buy the gigahomie 10,000 ACOG
it's called a ta11
>reddit gun
>holosun
every time
homie its cheap and werks
Am I wrong for 20" 7.62x51?
dude you could just get moe or mlok screws and drill though holes in tapeswitch
I love my 20 inch AR
I suppress all of my guns and a 27" musket isn't practical for anything other than a DMR/Sniper role. The absolute furthest distance I could reasonable shoot someone in self defense is 25 yards. I have a 16" with a short can the goes to about 20" as a general purpose rifle, but it's certainly less practical than my 10.3" with a 7" suppressor for my need. I'm not an infantryman.
Same here. Everything has a can and for <25m range to stop some looting Black, I just go with an FN P90. Otherwise, armoured cops get the 10.5 AR or 16". Honestly, either one just as likely to rob me.
t. Hurricane alley
Reasonably speaking, you're 99.99% likely to only ever shoot your AR in anger within the walls of your home, and even for the remaining 0.01%, you're not gonna shoot at >300m and are very likely to remain within 150m.
A suppressed SBR will do a better job in both the first and second kind of situation, especially the first where a can will prevent you from making scrambled eggs of your brain by firing 5.56 in your hallway without earpro.
Besides, outside of training you should absolutely be using something that doesn't depend on high muzzle velocity for wounding.
Agreed. Would only ever expect to engage in limited situations
>Home invasion
>Carjacking
Basically point blank, but up to one block distance.
You can't tell the future and you won't know what situation you might find yourself. So having a gun that's more suited for all different kinds of scenarios is better than a specialized one.
agree
ars are gay and boring
Back to the ukraine pee pee sucking threads.
shut up josh
Yes they are.
Literally the most npc gun of them all.
There is no reason for a 20" AR.
Either you are a velocity fetishist, and need a 22", or you are practical, and Wana 16"
Even a 16" bounces the muzzle around and beats up the bolt carrier group. I like 20" because the gun was designed that way and it's like shooting an air rifle so suck my dick Black person.
Are you dumb?
yeah that dude is honestly fricking moronic
What A1 is that? repro?
nta but hast to be. he as the same nodak a1 upper I use on my CAR repro
I made it myself with a GM 1:12 barrel, a NDS upper, a McKay Enterprises lower, and surplus furniture/components.
>is there any reason why a 20” ar isn’t the most practical choice for a civilian?
Yeah.
>a handgun in the hands of someone who actually practices is enough gun for self defense purposes, and is much more convenient to keep on hand at all times
>for someone who can't afford the practice to adequately use a handgun, a shotgun is the clear winner for affordability
>.223 sits in a shitty in between area when it comes to what you can hunt with it where it's too much for small game and in many cases not enough for other animals that are popular to hunt (both due to actually not being enough, and due to legal restrictions when it comes to hunting game that .223 otherwise would be enough for)
>can't hunt birds
>in many cases not enough for other animals that are popular to hunt
This has been deboinked a 100 times.
What part of this is wrong?
>(both due to actually not being enough, and due to legal restrictions when it comes to hunting game that .223 otherwise would be enough for)
.223 is totally enough for white tail deer for example, but in a lot of states it's illegal to use .223.
Fun fact the reason why the M4 has a 14.5 barrel isn't because it's great, it's because that's the shortest the army could get while still mounting a bayonet.
they could learn a thing or two from israelis
>they could learn a thing or two from israelis
>who use m4s and m16s
Too big
This isn't the 60s anymore boomer, ammo got better
14.5 is the longest you should go if you're THAT worried about ballistics
realistically you won't need anything bigger than 11.5
The rifle by itself isnt very heavy and doable. Add optics and maybe even a laser module and you are carrying a almost 5 kilo rifle and thats not counting a loaded mag. For your average civilian this is to heavy and you cannot aim it for any extended duration. Note being strong in the gym doesnt matter at all it is all down to your muscles getting used to the load. I carried a rifle around that weight and it's really not a issue but you have to train and get used to it.
Nice bait
This is clearly a LARP board homie, get out of here with that common sense. Here we pretend that zogbots, trust fund commandos, ANTIhomosexuals, steppers etc don't actually spend most of the time just carrying their damn weapons. In this fantasy land, weight isn't that important. Length is. Gotta be able to fit your doomsweeper 15 under your cum socks in the bottom dildo drawer or your wife's boyfriend will find it
OAL with a suppressor
Just get a bullpup. You’re not a government. You are not issuing the same gun to everyone regardless of handedness.
>Just get a bullpup
why would i get a objectively inferior weapon?
>why would i get an objectively superior weapon?
ftfy
>shit trigger
>shit ergonomic
>for slightly better ballistics
>superior weapon
>shit trigger
>shit ergos
A modicum of training will negate these issues. You do actually fire your guns, don't you anon?
>for slightly better ballistics
Kinda like how a 20'' AR gets slightly better ballistics than a 16'' AR. If we're minmaxing, why not go all the way?
>A modicum of training will negate these issues
cope, there's a reason why no real military uses bullpups
Yeah, cause grunts are moronic
t. about to get warcrimed by Australians
Australian SAS uses ARs
It's not inferior except in two unique circumstances
1: EVERYONE who knows the manual of arms must be able to pick up the gun and comfortably shoot it without fricking with more than one tool-free adjustment, whether they are big, small, left or right handed, wearing no gear, a little gear, or a lot of gear. This is a huge reason why armies don't do bullpups. Lefties and manlets exist and most have a fixed LOP. However for personal use this stuff is irrelevant, unless you're a manlet and will never get the LOP short enough.
2: If you are an operational operator who operates operationally you can fire in some circumstances a bit faster while using more cover if you shoot weak side. Bullpups tend to suck for this. SOF doesn't need a do-all gun either with the length for CQB and the barrel for long range engagements anyways. They are not SHTF lone wolf/peasant army larpers prepping for the wasteland. Targets out of the range of their short ARs are not their problem. They have trained DMRs and snipers covering their asses. What they need is parts the army has on hand (AR bits) and a manual of arms they are intimate with (AR).
because in a real life survival situation, your self defense close quarters rifle is also your desginated marksmanship rifle is also your hunting rifle. tactical luxuries are cool and all and everyone likes to say "i could totally kill an elk with 5.56, learn to hunt gay" but in the real world you're trying to avoid trigger time and taking chances, and you probably won't get more guns and ammo than you can carry.
In real life survival situations, people don't use bullpups
If a real life survival situation a bullpup would be ideal. you could get a flatter trajectory and extra energy from an extra 4"-6" of barrel in a more manueverable rifle and get by using one gun and caliber for everything.
In most of real life people can't afford bullpups or blew their cash on more conventional range toys because they didn't want to deal with bullpup ergos for their hobby shooting, and didn't want to use a 2 MOA hunting rifle with less than ethical muzzle energy for elk.
Sounds like cope
All this minmaxxing shit to get got by a AR or AK, lmao
>Get gucci AR
>Get got by a moron with a hi-point carbine
You should probably avoid combat and perhaps get a rifle that you can hide under a coat without compromising effectiveness (like a bullpup)
Why?
Because every military that hasn't yet gotter rid of their bullpups uses regular rifles for the guys that actually are expected to see shooting.
I thought Israel used one. Why don't they use one, though?
Israel uses ARs
forgot shortgat example that is not an AUG. the AUG sucks.
The size difference between a 14.5" and 20" is pretty massive when you compare it realistically.
A 20" with a fixed stock has an OAL of 40". A 14.5" with a collapsible is way down to about 30". Think of how many places you might need an extra foot of room to fit into with an extended rifle - doorways, cars, certain cover, etc.
Put the stock over your shoulder
because I already have a 16" and that's fine for me, and ballistically almost identical
ngl would like a 20" with A2 furniture to replicate muh basic training rifle but honestly muh M4gery is better
Since we’re discussing 20 inch barrels
>I will never not be mad
that thing's a fricking piece of shit and a Colt HBAR outmatches it on every single front
A bunch of low-iq morons just found out it existed from the latest 9-Hole video where they spout "muh Swiss engineering" moronation and claim it's the epitome of 5.56 service rifles. An SG550 would get its fricking clock cleaned by a heavy-barreled A2.
I don’t care what kind of moronic redditubers you knuckleheads have been watching, I’ve wanted that fricking thing since Shadow of Chernobyl came out 15 years ago.
Thank you Strelok
that thing is great to give conscripts to shoot down from the high ground in case of invasion. as an individual firearms enthusiast you're better served with an AR in pretty much every way.
20" chads rise up
Damn, I wish my gun was as cool as either of yours.
never got the hype for cancuck guns, they're ugly as frick
the only good thing Colt Canada ever did was the L119A2
i agree they look anemic like when you see some starving somali kid with skinny body but has a big ass head
This is the most accurate description i've ever read
The reason why the C7A2 is so jerked off is because it's literally what the m16A2/A4 should have been. I still don't understand why the US never adopted a M16 but with a telescopic stock like the Canadians.
sight is temporary
are you some tyranasaurrus manlet? why the frick are your foregrips so close to the mag well?
noguns detected
based?
20in is pretty shit, good to have it all tho so you don't look like you're coping
>no suppressors
Nice try poorgay
i have about 4 months left to wait :')
Please, I need to know where to get the rail mount you have on the canadian clone.
many many hours scouring the internet especially Canadian milsurp stores
extremely expensive and difficult to find, unfortunately.
I want a Canadian build so bad
Best length
I stand with you borther
laser?
Dbal a3
Dbal I2.
More velocity. Looks nice and pointy. Mounting bayonets for peak aesthetics and you get to smack your barrel on everything around you when you're not paying attention.
For me it’s 10.5 or 20.
I'm small and weak.
Velocity doesn’t necessarily matter as much in the choice between barrel lengths. 20in are more pleasant to shoot because you get less of that sonic crack noise 16 and under gives you. The longer gas tube gives you even less recoil and is easier on parts. 20 inches also makes it a bit easier to hit targets.
Anything other than 20" is cope
are those consoles hooked up to that pc monitor?
Yeah
eyyy specterchad
I like you.
See:
>yellowed SNES
NGMI.
>No dude, that's not what KINETIC TACTICAL ENVIRONMENT SOLUTIONS told me I should carry.
This is why I fricking hate gun culture. Buy whatever you want, but the average person doesn't need some moronic setup that would've been considered mall ninja bullshit 20 years ago when guns were seen as tools and not barbie dolls for men. I've seen guys at the range with rifles that give me genuine secondhand embarrassment.
>caring about what others do
we can only be responsible for ourselves
>I've seen guys at the range with rifles that give me genuine secondhand embarrassment.
What did their rifles looked like
16" is more comfortable for wielding indoors such as a home defense situation and you don't lose that much velocity between 16 and 20. Not that you can't wield a 20 indoors, I used to do it all the time, it is just a little nicer to have 16.
Long barrels are gay. It's all about spicy bubba loads pushing light monolithic copper boolets from SBR's these days to match the performance of that comes out of a full barrel gun
Imagine firing those loads from a 20”.
Too much barrel whip for the light boolet. don't want to run around with a front heavy ass frick piece of shit to mitigate that.
>barrel whip
Delusional.
>he can't into barrel harmonics
many such cases
I know what that is.
It's also stupid and wrong.
anything from 14.5-20 is objectively better for every situation conceivable than anything below 14.5, if you disagree you're moronic
>chekem
I actually agree. Carbines are nice but I like my 20"
Considering a large military force who likes 14.5" carbines lost, I'd heavily question all of their design choices and thought process.
5.56 was designed for a 20" barrel. Remember when the government profile was created because designers forgot that drill bits upset metal inwards when dial indicating near the gas port?
Carbines only got popular because of mass media
carbines are for shooting unarmored (and probably unarmed) individuals at close range where the type of bullet doesn't matter. Where a submachine gun would work just as well but you got all this 5.56 you gotta use.
In short, the ultra short AR carbine is the tool of the glowboy.
Modern ammo no longer needs a 20" barrel to retain fragmentation velocity out to reasonable distances. 5.56 was originally M193, not the 77gr SMKs that are preferred now.
>uh metals and pastics change schlomo
>uh just buy the Newest thing
>colt needs you to demand their product to justify raising their defense price per unit
Just imagine a 77 grain thats designed to speed out of a 20" like 3200fps.
>notice all the best propoganda has 20" barrels
most intelligent sovlBlack person posters
They're neat tho, quit projecting your ATF logic onto everyone and just let us enjoy our technically not SBR SBRs
Considering the only place you're ever likely to actually use that rifle for anything other than punching paper at the range is inside your home in a HD setting? No thanks I'll pass you do you.
Why wouldn’t you use a pistol for home defense? The rifle is for outside
No anon, even out of rifle length barrels, pistol calibers are barely adequate at stopping threats. Pistols are also significantly more difficult to aim under stress than a rifle with a stock. Look at any military/law enforcement unit that does CQB for a living - they ALL use SBRs. Intermediate cartridges just blow pistol cartridges out of the water, even when using SBR length barrels.
na
correct
t. 20in haver
Not really. A growing meta for LE entry team types is being heavy on pistols with limited subgun, SBRs or SBS just in case shit goes south.
I demand the barest shred of evidence for such a dubious claim as this.
bro, do you get all your gun information from hero shooters?
SWAT literally developed a magnum for use in CQB with a riot shield.
Preference, legal restriction, cost.
>landlet
Because everyone is using a suppressor nowadays.
A short AR is just really handy and honestly the loss in performance isn't worth sweating over the ranges that these rifles are designed to be engaging targets at in combat.
Not much more you could want
I'm using 16" right now, but I grew up using an M16A2 in the army. Just recently had them side by side (16 and 20) and I got to say I've been asking myself 'why not 20'. Side by side it isn't really that much difference.
18" is best "
Ehh
18 worst. 16 and 20 are each better
Don't post anything for 18 months. After that time, you'll feel comfortable making choices and you'll have opinions worth hearing, instead of constantly second guessing min max bullshit in search of .023 percent gains
16" can't into rifle length gas system. 20" gains pretty much nothing over 18". thus, 18" = best".
They can tho.
>16in barrel
>rifle gas
>rifle sight radius
I really should've gotten one of these.
>fake dissipator
ew
do a real one
I know lol, I know.
So how does it shoot compared to a 20in barrel+rifle gas? Is it literally just a smoother shooting 16in now that it's not mid gas?
>So how does it shoot compared to a 20in barrel+rifle gas?
pretty much the same, it's extremely soft
but it has an HBAR barrel so that probably helps with how soft it shoots
Damn, now I really want one.
https://www.del-ton.com/AR-15-Barrel-Assembly-p/dt1026.htm
Definitely tempting at that price but
>flattop
Maybe I'll buy the parts separately and build. Thanks anyways though.
How are things back in 2014?
no, 20 inch is the best barrel length, and the minimum barrel length a long arm should be
anything else is an abomination before God
16" is most efficient. If you think that you need the extra velocity, you probably actually just need a 308. This isn't applicable if we're talking slow twists with 55 grain.
this is the conclusion I came to. If shit did hit the fan all the sudden, I dont want a 20 inch in urban survival/possible combat. 16 inch is the perfect carbine size, and very easy to use indoors with a little training. I think a 16 inch AR 15 is the supreme shtf/apocalypse/zomie rush primary weapon. Pretty light with a sling, powerful against human and undead, can carry a lot of 223 556 without getting too bulky like 308 or 762. And if I wanted a true battle rifle I would go with 308 or maybe even 65creed, a 20inch ar 15 is not a 'battle rifle'
I’m a 5’4 manlet so I like 11.5/14.5
Honestly if the M14 is a battle rifle and it's chambered 556, why wouldn't an AR platform be a battle rifle as well?
Being said, yes, it's probably better for manlets to use 556 instead of 308 because they seem really concerned about "bulkiness" or weight, whereas 6'1+ chads can handle 308 in the same amounts as smaller builds do with 556
The m14 isn't chambered in 5.56 you actual fricking noguns
Go buy a fricking gun
https://ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/models.html
Huh, which one of these isn't 556?
Are you seriously trying to correct me because I didn't say "556 NATO"??
You are actually braindead, I hope you are trolling.
That's a mini14. The mini14 is not considered a battle rifle.
The mini 14 is NOT an m14.
The m14 is in my picture.
The m14 is a battle rifle.
The m14 is chambered in 308, 7.62x51.
Once again, you are an underage noguns homosexual, and probably a European. have a nice day and buy a gun, in that order.
k..so what armies used a m14 in battle?
cuz im a US marine and we never had those, and googling m14 showed me the 556 rugers, which is the same as the M4A4 assault rifle. it just has a smaller mag capacity. whatever
>im a US marine
show us the crayon stash then you lying homosexual
ok look i can't show those because i..ate them already.. but i dont want to get bullied anymore like i just was in this post
so here you motards go, im going to do pullups now with all the energy you just gave me
bruh you are a marine. the m14 is very important to the history of the marines. how tf did you not know. you better be doing fricking pushups. all jokes aside, you get an IAR yet?
i gotta be honest, i'm pretty good at sweeping the motor pool and sitting in the S3 playing with the shredder, but can't remember learning about the m14
i got out soon after the IAR's were brought in, but i almost got to touch one, anon kun
How embarrassing. I hope you know everyone is laughing at you.
ayyyyeee siiiiiirrr!!! im very embarrassed now and will probably never even post again... sudoku time..
im so sorry marine...at ease...
Airsoft kiddie detected.
That said, 20" guns are a meme. I carried an m16a4 for the better part of 3 years and it was just the fricking worst. If you're planning to shoot past 400m, don't get a 5.56
kek, pog 1-and-done detected
Goddamn straight, war's over and contracting was calling my name. Doing more than 2 pumps if you're not SOF means you're stupid and can't do better.
i dunno man, serving ZOG isn't exactly glorious in any capacity, but serving pog style after the war's already over is another low
let's see your dirty patches then, did you only get 1?
>ZOG
you just know people who unironically say this can't even get up from their chairs without using their hands
opinion discarded
yeah it's hard getting up with all this cartilage damage in my knees and feet problems, but if you don't realize how many israelites run the media and hold government official positions despite claiming to be a minority, you just might be an ADA shill yourself
Are you seriously falling for the b8, m8? Look how clean that patch is.
The A4 honestly looks kind of shit, government profile barrel was a mistake
The A1 or XM16 both look way better to use in every way except the barrel twist
>lying
Oh come on, anon, be nice. He's a Marine. He's not lying, he's just moronic.
blew your load, son. you gotta drip it in for a bit longer.
>they cant tell its bait and have the audacity to call YOU moronic
There’s a reason the army doesn’t use them anymore
M16A4 is still kicking around
Because the army jumps in and out of vehicles constantly
Not as kino
Literally the greatest length
One day you'll realize M193 and M855 aren't the only loads in the world, anon.
I wish I could see the childlike wonder in your eyes when you discover a whole world of loads that don't need to be fired out of musket length barrels to achieve reliable terminal performance at non CQB distances.
>Just spend $1.50/round to get the same performance as a round that costs less than half the price out of a longer barrel bro.
I mean unless you’re packing up a home invasion once a week I don’t see why price is an issue; if it works once you got your dollar fifty’s worth
the 11.5 with suppressor and 55gr JSP ammo is the ultimate general purpose gun that works optimally at realistic engagement distances.
55gr gold dots are barrier blind and will expand reliably with their intended terminal effect down to about 1800 fps. from an 11.5 barrel it will reach 300 yards above this threshold. a 556 soft point will have devastating effect on tissue and organs out to this range, better than a 9mm will at contact distance. theres other loadings that work well with this, including m855a1 if you require more armor/cover/vehicle penetration at the expense of reliable wound channels at longer ranges.
with a 6" can your gun is roughly the same length as a 16" carbine, and will prevent physical pain if fired inside a house or car. a 10.5 is a tiny bit shorter, but gets you down under the threshold of dwell where you can run with and without a can, steel and brass ammo, on the same gas port and buffer with 100% reliability. for this reason i recommend 11.5 minimum.
the rest of the system includes a red dot and a tall riser, which allows a 50 yard zero that gets you within 3" of point of aim from muzzle distance to about 280 yards. no hold overs or BDC, if they're in your effective range you can put the dot on them and hit them. the round drops like a rock beyond that. with the riser you can use night vision or a gas mask and make 300 yard hits. it's not ideal for DMR type work or shooting prone, but thats outside the scope of this gun's ability.
theres a reason this configuration is used by practically all SWAT LE and SF. it doesn't work for infantry who must make 600 yard suppression shots; thats outside the scope of the discussion and you have to change every ingredient to stretch its effective distance.
tall risers to hold dots are for redditors.
guess a blind pig sometimes still finds a truffle. whereas you have all the information in the world available to you and choose to do things the stupid way. you dont have to take my word for it, go try it yourself and see how much better it is to keep your head up.
you could hand me literally any weapon and I wouldn't give a frick how it's configured, I'd still hit what I shoot at and not b***h about how my body feels doing it
what's your point?
there is no "stupid" way if you know what you're doing
I guess not everyone has fired over 100k rounds like me so maybe you have to take into consideration your lack of depth in experience with any platform which makes you hyper focused on details that otherwise don't matter
oh yeah well my uncle works at lake city and i've shot THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND ROUNDS and theres definitely a lot of stupid setups. its a sense of endless amusement to me how many people defend stupid shit with a passion, no matter what it is.
heads up is faster and you can square up to the target with a better field of view. its not just about neck position or whatever you're imagining in your head. also night vision is 100% mainstream now and the gun i've described is good for passive aiming, to be completely utilitarian 24/7 like any good all-purpose rifle should be.
if you're in a distance where having a riser makes it faster to sight in, you're probably also in a distance where you should be pointing and shooting with a C-grip instead of worrying about optics entirely
especially when we're talking about just rocking a red dot bro
it's ironic you talk about people defending stupid shit but didn't take that into consideration here.. sounds like you watch t rex arms religiously and think he's a tactical god more than anything coming from real experience, you could be larping about shooting over 300k rounds as well, i've probably got half a million under my belt btw i didn't specify how many over 100k i was, lost count and it's not like i had to pay for it to even keep track of things like that since i am a PMC
also if you're using NODs then why would you care about an optic entirely?
use a lazer beam lmao
come at me with something REAL anon i need SUBSTANCE here
I dont watch youtube videos where people talk, they get on my nerves. but the gay hating gamer kid is probably right about a lot of stuff. my experience comes from force on force, hog hunting, and 2 gun. hogs are great because you actually get to shoot out past 200 yards on moving targets, which you can't fake. simunition distances are a little too easy to work on anything except for reaction speed.
when you're shooting against live targets that are moving and/or shooting back, you have to get on them fast when they appear even if the range is further than room clearing distances. most of the time your cover is insufficient to hunker down and make aimed shots, you would end up taking it as bad as you give it if they were shooting 556 back at you. i also have a laser, its great for moving while shooting or snap shots but if you're covering a doorway/sector or scanning for a concealed target its far better to use the red dot. i assume if i have NV, the adversary will as well. NV use isnt even an important consideration for most people, but it is a free benefit that comes along with the optic height that gives you the nearest POI at all effective ranges on short rifles, and is the fastest and most comfortable.
in summary: its quite possible you've never touched a firearm.
Imagine going below 16 and not using 300blk.
Dissapator, suppressed.
A 20 inch barrel isn't going through a plate, no length 5.56 or 308 is going through a plate without special tungsten meme rounds that you can't get or make in quantity
You aren't getting any real extra range from that 20 inch barrel, a 10.5 can make 600m shots in the mountains wind blowing all day and will be more accurate in doing so due to less barrel harmonics
And even a 8 inch carries enough energy to 500m to shatter someone's pelvis bone which is where you should be aiming anyway.
End of story 12.5 is the best barrel length and anything else is a cope unless you are building for very specific engagements
>a 10.5 can make 600m shots in the mountains wind blowing all day and will be more accurate in doing so due to less barrel harmonics
Making shots at 600m is different from hitting someone at 600m. The increase in theoretical accuracy from muh harmonics is clearly offset by the practical difference in wind drift and drop.
Okay moron
>barrel harmonics
Short barrels are more accurate, right.
My friend's cousin's uncle used a taurus judge for home defense once. He was sitting at home about to do some sudoku when he heard his backdoor open. He grabbed his judge loaded with birdshot went downstairs and shot the meth head once. The birdshot evaporated his upper torso. Honestly the judge is all you need for personal protection.
memes aside i've only played with and fired one, and lost its timing and had to go in for repair. it was a secondhand gun but i saw no reason for it to break.
Because a bullup with an 18 inch barrel is superior in every way
How about even if you're hopping in and out of vehicles why not use a 20" Steyr AUG? Same overall length as an 11" barrel AR, but with 20" ballistics. Also integral 1.5x or 3x prism sight, vertical foregrip, and standard 42 round mag. Oh darn, that's not allowed on this board because the magazine is in the wrong spot. NVM these benefits are worthless
Because compared to an AR the AUG
>has fixed LOP
>has a shittier trigger
>has less rail space
>is fricking AIDS when suppressed, no other rifle makes me wear gloves if I don't want to get my fingers blasted when a can is on
>the integral Steyr optics suck shit and you need to get the A3 to get around this
>well tell you to eat a dick if you mount FRICKING ANYTHING with ANY amount of hangover north of the trigger courtesy of that goddamned charging handle
All this so I can eek out some extra frag threshold out of dated ammunition. I didn't even touch on the reloading. I've shot AUGs plenty over the years, but I cannot wait to get one of my own just to shit on it and collect the tears from its fanbase. Fricking Christ, shooting one for a night op was dogshit, didn't matter if I was aiming with the PEQ or the RMR for passive .
I wish a manufacturer would make a modern AUG that is well, modern, and makes affordances for the stuff you listed.
It'd be pretty kino, bullpup trigger aside
It sounds like you weren't working with a 20/20 sear
seethe and cope. aug is one of those things that is an absolute improvement on paper but fricking misery to use
nAUGers are like darkies and their dicks, they literally cannot stop talking about the length of their rods and think nothing else matters.
>I mention the much shorter overall length
>moron thinks I'm bragging about how big it is
You have reasonable points but also can't afford an AUG. Telling me how awful it is with gear you absolutely can't buy
>but also can't afford an AUG
I've spent more on century+ old pistols for the sake of it and have over $4k sunk into a PCC that's nothing more than a range toy, I just have to build myself up to buy your utterly mid rifle that won't even suppress adequately.
Jesus Christ, you're not dead yet? You geriatric frick. Frick you and the goat your rode in on.
I'm still living out of sheer spite at this point
Can I have your mp5 when you die please?
Yeah nah, my will states all my guns are to be melted down and be used to help fabricate steam locomotive components.
Can I have the boiler?
>How about even if you're hopping in and out of vehicles why not use a 20" Steyr AUG?
Because the only 20" AUGs available are collectors' items. Modern AUGs all come with 16" barrels (with nitride finish LMAO)
Collectors item? I ordered my 20" barrel for $350 off a distributors online shop. Also bought a AUG bayonet straight from Steyrs website. Do you even do the slightest modicum of research before making these foolish claims? Only collectors barrels are 24" with integral bipod and 9mm conversions.
When did you buy the barrel? They're really hard to find now
They come into stock a few times a year. Just gotta be in the AUG sphere
>why not use a 20" Steyr AUG?
Gonna show us a way we can get one of those outside of Gunbroker, smart guy?
Only manlets have trouble with a proper 20" AR.
Now put a suppressor on it because there is no reason not to
>46" OAL rifle
Just how short are you?
>specops gays that are over 6ft prefer 10.5" barrels on their suppressed ARs
>NOOO THEY'RE SECRETLY MANLETS IN PLATFORM BOOTS MY RIFLE IS LONG JUST LIKE MY PENIS (NO YOU CANT SEE IT)
>The nogunz always reverts to talking about penises
ok bud come back when you're under 40% BMI
>t. civilian
Hello, I like 20" barrels and you're all gay.
oh yeah??
What the frick is that stock?
Not sure, I didn't make that post, not sure why you're asking me? Maybe ask the guy who posted it
-Dan
Holy shit that's friggin sweet. Would be way more badass if the Marines logo was red tho.
20'' = big pick up trucks
both are overcompensating for something VERY small
Yes my dick is small but your AR still has terrible velocity
The distance you and me both will be shooting at we’ll have the same velocity
Mine AR will just have less signature, make less noise and be more maneuverable unlike your musket
>Mine AR will just have less signature
Turrible bait
>uses dick size as an argument
You're either a woman or soi boi
because 14.5 is better
The raw, orgasmic pleasure of shooting a well-tuned 14.5" middy with a brake and an H3 buffer is something that is hard to surpass.
You guys are both gays
Yeah.
Nice $90 optic you got there, way to break the bank tripBlack person
Que?
Reddit Black person tripgays may be annoying, but they certainly don't buy cheap things
that must have been satisfying
damn, I am totally buying one of these