If anything this war has proven to me is that the Leopard 2 is not a great tank but rather a mediocre piece of shit.

If anything this war has proven to me is that the Leopard 2 is not a great tank but rather a mediocre piece of shit.

And that's not because I saw some get blown up, but because their readiness rate is very low. They appear to be a pain to maintain compared to the M1 Abrams, and Ukraine cannot even do repairs on them themselves.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >their readiness rate is very low
    source?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      the german defense minister visited the leopard2 repair center in lithuania before christmas. it services the ukrainian leopards and basically every leopard2 donated by germany to ukraine is sitting in that depot right now and most cannot be repaired any time soon. apparently krauss-maffei cant produce spare parts fast enough to repair them.

      https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Nur-noch-wenige-kampfbereite-deutsche-Leopard-Panzer-in-der-Ukraine-article24632715.html

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Uh huh. Cool story, bro.

        So after months and months of high-intensity use, a lot of them need downtime and repairs? Gee, who'da thunk?

        Also, LMAO. N-TV always massively overexaggerates shit like this.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >So after months and months of high-intensity use
          What high intensity use? We've barely seen them in action.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          what a b***h post. I haven't heard cool story bro in a long time. And
          > a lot of them need downtime and repairs
          is clearly not a good sign. The point is to endure.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          remember lepoard2PL upgrade shitshow?
          reasons for extremely low upgrade speed was always the same - Germans can produce parts for 12-13 upgrade kits a year... with current speed it will take 5 years to complete as there are still around 60 l2a4 variants in Poland

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Germans can produce parts for 12-13 upgrade kits a year
            German companies helped design it and trained polish specialists and did technology transfers
            they don't actually produce the "upgrade kits" those are made in Poland

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              those are only assembled in Poland - Poland got those leos 2a4 practically free but there were some strings attached - not that it really matters - its just that its similar to Ukie situation

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Sorry that reality is hard

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Leoaprd 2 is fine just not the 2A6 variant. It's plagued by German autism. If you watch the interview with Ukes on the Strv 122 they say it's much easier to maintain in the field.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Why? It's basically the same tank

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          According to Ukes the Swede uses a single type of oil for everything while the German has several different types of oils for each part.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Which is only an issue if you have to operate a bazillion different donated weapons systems that were never properly introduced into your armed forces. None of the normal customers for the Leo2 ever reported this as an issue.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >None of the normal customers for the Leo2 ever reported this as an issue
              How many of them fought in real war?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Which is only an issue if you have to operate a bazillion different donated weapons systems that were never properly introduced into your armed forces. None of the normal customers for the Leo2 ever reported this as an issue.

            NTA.
            Logistics is only one issue. Oils can be a fire hazard, especially hydraulic oils. So different types may make sense under different considerations.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            German leos and swedish leos use the exact same engine and etc
            Most of the differences are actually in protection and electronics
            So I dont know why they have a different maintenance plan
            the ukrainians also said that the swedish fire control system had issues so id personally take different oils over a potentially deadly issue

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              aren't Swedish ones derived from 2a5 while Ukies were complaining about 2a6?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              aren't Swedish ones derived from 2a5 while Ukies were complaining about 2a6?

              it was something something maintenance oils
              so I guess it has to be something with hoses and cables.
              Swedes apparently used only one oil for everything, while the Germans have several for different things. at least according to the video

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I still think there is some kind of Teutonic trolling going on there. The A5(122) and A6 (or A4 to A8 for that matter) have the same approved POL list. You can basically drive anything but the hydraulic system and the final drive on the same engine oil (most of the scandies do this because of low temps), but there is nothing stopping them from doing the same with an A6. Maybe the germans told them that they needed to flush all systems if they wanted unitary oil, and that might take too much time and not be worth it

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They said that the strv 122 was easier to maintain not that it was more reliable
        At the same time they also said they had problems with the strv 122s fire control system

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Ukraine cannot even do repairs on them themselves
    Are you implying Ukraine can repair Abrams?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Abrams engines are actually pretty simple.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        stop trolling homosexual

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Abrams engines are actually pretty simple.
        yah, you just remove the entire unit, and replace it with a new one, transmission too!
        >no refunds!

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >They appear to be a pain to maintain compared to the M1 Abrams
    and you came to this conclusion how? there's 0 evidence that M1 was actually deployed anywhere in ukraine.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      *in combat i mean

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The biggest problem is their insane cost, production costs have blown out to something like $15m USD per unit.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    We've known the Leopard 2 is pretty underwhelming since the Turks tried to use them.
    It's just a bad design and they don't have the experience to compete with British or American designs.

    They're cheap, so shit countries like them, it's all there is to it.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Where did you get enough information to make that judgement? Ukraine battle environment is a complete shitshow. Russian shitboxes weren't even made for that, they were made for a war of maneuver on open plains with no mud or Eastern Ukraine weather. And as for NATO vehicles, they all come from storage and then have to be supplied by a very long and busted up supply chain. The entire German MiC is completely jacked up due to defunding and essentially being shit on for 30 years. What does that say about the viability of a design that was made for a different war (no modern tank was designed for this attritional mud shitshow), and is not properly supplied by a broken MiC, combined with Ukrainian logistics, such as they are?

    >They appear to be a pain to maintain compared to the M1 Abrams
    No proof of combat deployment of M1 Abrams in Ukraine, or any information about the maintenance, of which there can't be much because Abrams tanks have never seen the frontline.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      its not just the leo2. german media reported that the ukies call the leo1 a "suicide machine", they say its armor is weaker than that of the soviet tanks.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Okay. So you're either a complete moron or a (probably vatBlack person) shitposter. But I repeat myself. Thanks for clarifying that.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Leo1 does have shit armor though

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Leo1 does have shit armor though

        >Leo has basically no armor
        holy shit you guys are actual geniuses
        its almost as if that was the entire point of its design

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Ukraine cannot even do repairs on them themselves
    It was intended from the beginning that Leos would be sent to Poland for maintenance and repairs, where they have established facilities under NATO protection. Locating major repair facilities in Ukraine is time consuming and expensive. It is still intended to establish repair facilities in Ukraine, it's just not a top priority when the logistics dictate more efficient use of resources by having Germans, Poles, and Ukies all work & train together somewhere not under missile bombardment. I believe. also, that similar repair facilities are being considered in Romania. For Reasons.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The frick is that cutout on the front of the turret

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >MASSIVE glaring weakspot right below the gun
        >Huge cut out of the armor for no reason
        Are they stupid?

        Fricking tourists.
        You need the "glaring weakspot" and "cut out" so that you can depress the canon, you morons.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Russians don't understand the utility of gun depression.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >MASSIVE glaring weakspot right below the gun
        >Huge cut out of the armor for no reason
        Are they stupid?

        oh no.....

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          now at an actual visible size

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >MASSIVE glaring weakspot right below the gun
      >Huge cut out of the armor for no reason
      Are they stupid?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The chances of hitting that spot are virtually nill, this isn't war blunder

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The M1's haven't even entered combat in Ukraine so I don't know how you are able to compare their performance in Ukraine. Besides that the Leopard 2 is okay but suffers from the same issue as a lot of other German gear does, chronic underivestments. If the amount of new spare parts, actual tanks and funding going towards new platforms is miniscule then your thing is going to suffer regardless of how good or bad it is. If KMW was producing a thousand tanks a year then the cost of a Leopard 2 would be half of what it is now and there would be spare parts all over the place but since barely anyone has ordered anything in the last 30 years it's all super expensive.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >proven to me
    you have nothing more than a gut feeling.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >you have nothing more than bullshit
      Ftfy

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The vatnig tactic of making americans seem as unlikable as possible is working. I refuse to believe this level of chauvinistic moronation is real.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That's good because it's not
      >chauvinistic
      That word doesn't mean what you think it means

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Embarrassing post.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >compared to the M1 Abrams
    you have no idea what the maintenance is
    >and Ukraine cannot even do repairs on them themselves.
    same with M1 moron

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >moronic statements about an MBT underperforming
    >No mention of crew training
    >No mentiong on operational usage and environment it is in
    >No mention of Russian MBT's and how they're performing
    >Some blanket statement about it being a pain in the ass to maintain vs an american design
    In general I don't like this board because of the pro-Ukraine shit that gets spammed and everybody that dissents gets called a vatnik. But this shit right here is just moronic. Because Ukrainians have poor training (in multiple aspects) and Leo 2's get M-killed doesn't mean it's a bad design. We've seen the soviet tanks (Ukrainian & Russians) go up like a fireball time and time again, while Leopards just take damage and the crew has to bail out, which it already has going for it.
    On top of that there seem to be very, very, very little actual armor on armor confrontations with most battles being between MBT's facing off with ATGM's, Artillery & Drone dropped munitions or FPV drones with shaped charges. That is if they don't run over mines first in a headlong charge against a prepared defensive line.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    they certainly suck, but honestly all tanks have so far in Ukraine. Mutts are scared to let them Abrams but they will probably be underwhelming too

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >mediocre piece of shit
    compared to what? T55, T62, T72, T80, T90, T14 (LMAO)?

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >tanks get destroyed when you don't have air superiority
    no shit moron
    Abrams will perform just as badly

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    listening to people on /k/ talk about anything but handguns is like listening to people on PrepHole talking about anything other that programmer socks.

    you people have the loudest opinions about
    >wartime logistics
    >frigate construction
    >arms procurement
    >tank engineering
    >missile capabilities
    and the list goes on.

    love reading in detail about the "best way to improve of aircraft carrier formations" or the "optimal barrel length for MBTs during dry weather scenarios" by people who were too fat/dumb/soft to even make it through basic before going back to shaking fries.
    the same people who were jerking off about le epic spetznaz, the evil t-90 and not poking the russian bear 5 years back btw.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >love reading in detail about the "best way to improve of aircraft carrier formations" or the "optimal barrel length for MBTs during dry weather scenarios" by people who were too fat/dumb/soft to even make it through basic before going back to shaking fries.

      Guess what I dont have to be a gym rat or grunt to assess the current state of affairs in Ukraine

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The bear are everything the west sent and asked for more. While using mass produced lowest common denominator equipment and conscripts. homies should not have poked the bear.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Every single board is exclusively garbage about their assigned topic, and has excellent taste in almost all other regards. For example /misc/ is shit with regards to political discussion, but ask them about their taste in video games and you'll find them to have excellent taste. Ask PrepHole about video games. Garbage. Ask PrepHole about what they drive and it reads like an PrepHole bucket list. Talk about cars on PrepHole and all you get is electric car bait spam. Start a thread about driving music and it's hard to disagree with their choices. Every board is shit with regards to their board topic because the most autistic and loudest overanalyzers who have far too much time and effort invested into knowledge of irrelevant bullshit will show up.

      In the same vein, /k/ is garbage with regards to talk about war. Every single other board will give you a better nuanced and less shit opinion on the topic of war. Anime, sure, /ak/ is fine. War music, it's okay. But then you get to anything other than autism about the specific weight of a standard issue rifle, and you'll find the absolute moronism shine through from the fattest of armchair generals.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        what shallow and uninsipring zoomer cope
        the actual reality is that PrepHole was fataly wounded sometime in 2012 and died when the american election started in 2016
        the only thing you zoomers can do is post the same memes people smarter then you were posting 10 years ago and cargo cult something you can't understand

        like, fricking imagine if you opened up this board and saw a rage comic, that's how I feel every day when I see you kids posting frogs

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >smarter then

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >spetznaz
      are a fine tool on par with other SOF, not their fault they've been used as a hammer recently when theyre actually a scalpel

      >t-90
      got killed by a drone after being abandoned because the crew panicked. tank crews are human after all, who woulda thunk it.
      doesnt mean the tank is bad

      >not poking the russian bear
      i fail to see the positive outcome after having poked the bear? ukraine is a blasted no mans land, the world economy took a dive and relations between east and west are as soured as they havent been after the 90s

      pray tell, what did we gain from messing with russia again? aside from higher prices on natural resources and losing influence on the african continent of course

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >what did we gain from messing with russia again?
        First of all, russia started shit, so it's their own fricking fault.
        russia has been removed as a geopolitical rival at the cost of not a single NATO soldier, the West is the most united it's been since the wall fell, when Ukraine gets rebuilt after the war it will replace russia as the main European energy provider (meaning there will be less foreign influence) and China knows it can't start shit in Taiwan without repercussions.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Bullshit. Us State Department started this by cheering on Ukrainian shelling and mass slaughter of thousands of Russophones in the Donbass. After years of trying to stop this the Russians got mad. They've won this war with one arm behind their backs. Russia is stronger than ever. Their economy is growing and Europe's has been devastated. Germany's industry has been decimated and they have now fallen behind Russia in economic size. Most Europeans now realise that America is NOT our friend.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            3/10, needs more ranting about homosexuals and trannies

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > your brain on krokodile

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            We all know you're jealous of American hegemony but lying to yourself to excuse it is just embarrassing

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous
  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >pain to maintain compared to the M1 Abrams
    lmao

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Didn’t the Abrams we sent get destroyed as well? And aren’t all the tanks being sent of lesser quality in the first place?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >we
      sir the abraham has not seen combat yet

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Anon, there are no real reports of them being used so far. Weak bait.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Where the frick are 100 Leopard 1a5 Germany promised, it's on 30 delivered for months now
    >but muh Ukraine said they didn't like them!
    Already multiple interviews came out from Kupiansk area with Leo 1 crews and they are okay with them

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Small indie country plz understand

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Marder
        >Iris-t
        >not delivered
        Huh from what shit website did you get this?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          (NTA)
          welt, says so at the bottom

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It dates back from 4 months ago. Obviously some deliveries have been made since then.
          A handle few, at least.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Marder
        >Iris-t
        >not delivered
        Huh from what shit website did you get this?

        It dates back from 4 months ago. Obviously some deliveries have been made since then.
        A handle few, at least.

        nta.
        Iris-T has been in Ukraine since October 22 (*). That pic claims by August 23 none were delivered. Obvious bullshit.

        (*): https://t dot co/mlQSdTBHy2

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Lieferung [...] aus dem Mai-Paket
          learn German

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >They appear to be a pain to maintain compared to the M1 Abrams
    The Abrams is just as much of a pain if not worse to maintain as the Leo which is why the US didn't wanna send them. The only reason they sent Abrams in the first place was because Germany refused to send any Leos unless the US sent their tanks

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Leo 2 is the only modern western tank doing any heavy lifting in Ukraine
    even Leo 1s have seen more combat then Abrams and Challengers in this war
    So naturally its gonna have lower readiness when its actually being used
    Matter of fact Ukies already said that the Abrams is maintenance heavy and specifically pointed out how they have to run the engine atleast once a day to air it out

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >If anything this war has proven to me is that the Leopard 2 is not a great tank but rather a mediocre piece of shit.
    Compared to what?
    Name 1 type of MBT where "this war has proven to you" that it's better. And post the evidence here.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >German equipment
    >Low readiness rate
    Wow who could have predicted the fricking kraut layabouts who can't keep their submarines, planes, or service rifles working also made a tank that's primarily a maintenance black hole.
    Buy American.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why would the sight of Abrams tanks burning in Ukraine be so uncomfortable? Surely the yanks got used to it in Iraq?

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    BTW Russia produces more weapons and munitions than the entire West combined and at about 25% of the cost.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Has it helped them defeat their destitute neighbor after 2 years?

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Leopard 1 & 2
    >Challenger 2
    >Bradley's
    >Gavin's (pbuh)
    Even with Slavs behind the controls they are still far superior to the Soviet rust buckets the Russians are forced into a gun point.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I am Jonaham Talor from Pensilvanya Federated Oblast and I am demoralize.
    Tell your Deputy that ally with German war effort is pointless, leads to very lost life. We want to an end of the war in Ukrainian!

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    you had me up until the M1 Abrams part but okay

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