If a war were to start in the Pacific against China, the US will be able to easily ramp up production just like WW2 right?
If a war were to start in the Pacific against China, the US will be able to easily ramp up production just like WW2 right?
If a war were to start in the Pacific against China, the US will be able to easily ramp up production just like WW2 right?
The fact you have to constantly compare your shitty country to the US says it all
It's a Rajesh
fibby bibby
the amount of seethe generated by every one of these threads says a lot more.
>people hate my country
>IM WINNING
Xhang….
US can easily demolish chink production, just like WW2. Off to your next escalator, wumao.
If a war were to start against China it would be primarily fought as a naval/aerospace war with either side gaining full naval or air superiority signalling an end to hostilities. The US would not invade mainland China or vice versa. That's why artillery/MLRS systems/MANPADs/ATGMs are being sent in droves but every keeps dancing around the subject of sending modern airframes.
Cruise missiles and other PGMs are even more expensive and time consuming to build than any of the the above. So how will the production keep up with their usage?
Strapping a JDAM (soon to be PJDAM) kit on to a Mk8x is not time consuming in the slightest. Cruise missiles are another story but no cruise missiles have been sent to Ukraine.
*no cruise missiles have been sent to Ukraine by the US. France and the UK aren't going to risk their few aircraft carriers in hostilities in the Pacific theater.
Currently a ton of JDAMs are being sent to Israel since they almost ran out of their own stock (after two weeks they dropped like 6000).
>Cruise missiles and other PGMs are even more expensive and time consuming to build than any of the the above.
Not an argument. You're making an argument based on the inventories listed in your pic.
>The US would not invade mainland China or vice versa.
There's easy to imagine scenarios where it happens:
>US distracted in Middle East
>CCP makes a play for Taiwan
>Kinmen falls
>US, Japs, Flips come to the aid of Taiwan in time
>ROK joins the fun
>NK joins the fun
>NK nukes ROK but air defense shoots them all down
>NK gets stomped before anyone can blink
>ROK + US forces on the Yalu River
>Cross, take some minor border towns
There ya go, US invasion of mainland China. Not the most exciting but easy to see.
Implessive simulation. You absolutely take the other way around to help mutt generals to make a very implessive move. Implessive!
This is 100% not a plausible scenario. It's doubtful even in full nork chimpout the US would allow its troops to march past the parallel, much less take towns on the other side of the Yalu river. Like for what fricking reason, SK would need zero US help defeating NK, but we probably still would, but if we are defending Tawain too we are leaving the threaten Chinese mainland escalation off the table, that's actually how you get nuked.
>why... everybody keeps dancing around the subject of sending modern airframes.
I highly doubt an F-15C from 1979 would ever get thrown at China, but they're not getting sent to Ukraine either. My money is on "we have the most absurd K:D in aircraft history and we don't want to frick it up by sending it to Ukies that only have a crash course in piloting".
> 155 mm, Javelins and Stingers
Would these weapon system be relevant for a war against China? Seems like a conflict where the inventory for the navy and air force would be more important.
Bruh, we could just shut off their food imports.
It's not like we just recently sanctioned one of the largest exporters of food, gas and oil who just coincidentally shares a northern border with them, all because of an "illegal invasion" and currently have no other market to sell Its resources:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3238699/china-and-russia-supercharge-trade-record-grain-order-bolstering-food-and-energy-security-westernhttps://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202310/1300473.shtml
>one of the largest exporters of food
lol
Russia is the largest exporter of grain in the world, which recently took over more fertile lands from Ukraine.
Cool. What about Pork, beef, and Chicken?
China imports around 100 million tons of food per year. This deal with Russia covers about 6 millon per year IF they can transport it across the vast lands and mountains between Russias fertile lands and the chinese hive cities.
Google where the frick Nizhneleninskoe on the Amur River is located.
Read: They can't. Not enough rail or road infrastructure so it needs to go via the sea.
Which they also can't do because all grain ports are in the black sea except for a tiny hub in the baltics.
Same goes for the port in Vladivostok.
China will need to increase the imports drastically because they abused their fields to hell and back.
Growing your own vegetables will become an economic necessity in 2-5 years.
Tom Clancy was on something when he wrote Red Storm Rising. China will go to war with Taiwan in order to keep the masses at home at bay because the party fricked up their food security and the russian frickery showed how naked they are.
Import food doesn't mean we lack of food. China has grown more food than India on every spectrum.
You have grown more food than the country with the most food insecure people on the planet? Wow cool. Yes China grows the most food it also has you know like the most fricking people.
fricking moron. India is a food export country. It export more food than the US even. lol
yet chyna imports its food and is food insecure. have a nice day chinksect
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why you just can't understand basic logics?
>india export food more than the US
>China grow more food than india on any spectrum
>China import food from the US
>China has even more food than india
>China won't starve even if food from the US was cut off
Frickin low IQ digits
Engrish very bad, must have cheated on the exam like you cheated on IQ test.
china lies about its food, that's why they can't export food like india but import a massive amount instead. chinks will die of famine in a month if cut off from the world and not receiving American produce.
China also has the highest population of any country on the planet.
Assuming homosexuals exist in roughly the same percentage among any general population of people, it stands to reason that China also has the highest total population of homosexuals.
Thus, China is the gayest country on earth.
Where did I say India didn't export food?
so why you bragging about China's food security? Do you think i am some low IQ digits like you who believe in this bullshit? Fricking muh America saving the world narrative? Lmao
You are mistaking me for other posters
*don't mean
*china growing / been growing / have grew
*in every
does UN command have anything outlined for the public on intervention under total collapse scenarios? or idk, if norks degenerate down to warlord shit and the one who controls the region nearest the DMZ parades around ICBMs while ritually beheading ten thousand peasants, all well within observation of UN positions and international media? they nearly went to war over a tree once. there's gotta be something that constitutes enough of a provocation to cross over
It's all on SK, to take over, West Germany style.
yeah, thank you for correcting my english like i do fricking care.
Wrong. Google it yourself Chang.
"Despite its domestic production, China has been a net importer [DOC] of agricultural products since 2004. Today, it imports more of these products—including basedbeans, corn, wheat, rice, and dairy products—than any other country. Between 2000 and 2020, the country’s food self-sufficiency ratio decreased from 93.6 percent to 65.8 percent. Changing diet patterns have also driven up China’s imports of edible oils, sugar, meat, and processed foods. In 2021, the country’s edible oil import-dependency ratio reached nearly 70 percent [article in Chinese], almost as high as its crude oil import dependence."
It;s not like pipelines in a shithole third world country like Russia cant be sabotaged/bombed, right chink?
Russia is currently importing food from China (at a loss) to avoid food prices ballooning ahead of the next election (not because Putin has a chance to lose, but because he's an insecure wanker who doesn't even realize that it doesn't matter how much the Russian public hates him, they'll never move against him).
Contemporary wartime production requires qualified workers. Otherwise you end up like Germany in WW2 where reliability of everything was severely impacted or like Russia right now where accuracy and reliability of anything not using smuggled Western or Chinese components is massively impacted.
I imagine a war would lead China to ramp up their production of GUTTER OIL. It already makes up 10% of all cooking oil on the Chinese market! That's right! Because Chinese food is greasy and full of oil food vendors there are always looking for a way to save a buck, so they employ people to lurk around gutters, sewers and drains near restaurants and scoop the precious grease and fat that floats to the top of the muck, which they can then serve to unwitting customers. Because it's so widespread, virtually all Chinese people have gotten to have this delicious treat! The US is incapable of matching this efficient method of grassroots recycling.
The west reuses restaurant food oil too, but mostly for fuel.
Any war requiring production like WWII is going to end with things worse than nerve gas.
I fully believe the next major war will see the relase of artificial diseases. Everyone thinks theyll be super destructive shit black death tier. In reality covid proved a suped up flu is enough to cripple a large number of nations.
Doubtful. The problem with bioweapons is they are completely uncontrollable. Stuff like "racially targeted diseases" is science fiction, there is no such bacteria or virus or fungus that uses one ethnicity as a host to the exclusion of all others. All you ever get is "some are slightly more vulnerable to complications than others" due to minuscule internal chemistry differences. And what are we going to do? Develop a bioweapon that targets the Chinese's unique wienertail of sweat hormones? Ridiculous.
Nuclear weapons, for whatever their flaws, are the more reliable option. It kills in the immediate vicinity and produces fallout. That's it.
In an actual wartime scenario?
Probably, yeah. How many illegal immigrants do you think are in the US?
It's something like 12,000,000+.
All you have to do is put out "War contracts" - work in an ordinance plant for the duration of a mass conflict, 50 hours a week, and once peace is declared you get US citizenship and all the money you paid in income tax for the duration of your emergency employment back in one lump sum to put a down payment on a house, start a business, buy a pallet of Doritos and an RV, whatever.
Labor force acquired.
We've got shuttered and abandoned factory space literally everywhere.
The technical knowledge and capability was exported to China to manufacturer trinkets and bullshit in the first place.
I's not like that disappears, it's just not profitable stateside to destroy our environment with chemicals and heavy metal contamination as a result of industry, but it's super cheap to destroy China's environment so I can shit on a heated toilet seat.
So now china has a massive immediate manufacturing capacity and could theoretically mass produce wartime materials much faster than the US until domestic production spools up, but 90% of groundwater is not fit for human contact (according to CN ministry of ecology and environment).
Really not the "own" you think it is.
>letting more non-whites in
I'd rather lose. Also they are worthless as workers to begin with so its a moot point. They aren't even used as slave labor to pick crops anymore.
Also the US already has mroe industrial output than China by abut a factor of 2 if you apply Amreican, German, or Jap definitions of "industrial" rather than those the Chinks use to measure their own industrial product.
You are laboring under false assumptions at the start. If the political will existed an all white America could murder the entire world in a year. And it should.
based moderate
Hi chang
I just said I wanted a genocidal white American empire to kill the rest of the planet you moron.
DEMONIZED
>letting more non-whites in
They're already in. They're in, and working, and nobody from the dems or repubs will ever stop it because it makes money for the wealthy.
It'd be super easy to stop illegal immigration, it's very simple: make it a felony with mandatory jail time and asset forfeiture of some degree to knowingly hire a illegal immigrant.
Nobody wants to solve that problem so they'll just keep coming and they'll keep pulling stunts like paying some private company in Texas $1600 per migrant to bus them out to NYC or elsewhere to make it seem like they're owning the libs, on the taxpayers dime.
All the anon was saying in that post is to make use of them as an instant, cheap labor force.
Calling illegal workers worthless is moronic, and saying they don't even pick crops anymore means you are actively lying. Go past any fricking field in California during a harvest period, or frick the entire south, or Westcoast.
how many Mk48s, tomahawks, Mk46, JASSMs, NSMs, SM(etc)s have been expended?
There are not enough of them and they're more expensive and time consuming to make than any of the weapons mentioned in OPs image.
Also currently the US is sending a lot of JDAMs and PGMs to Israel for the upcoming war in Gaza, and if Iran gets into the war, then US Tomahawks and other PGMs will be expended too.
Implessive.
not a single chance LMAO
such a dumb graph, deriving anything exept what the title indicates is subzero iq tier
>all this for 46 billion $
>5.2% of US defense budget
Why would they need to? Those wars required firing hundreds of thousands of shells per day because they couldn't hit the broad side of a command bunker and were banking on the idea that if they could just hit every square inch, they'd have to hit something important eventually. Modern ordinance can be driven directly into the enemy commander's skull with a margin of error measured in inches. Nobody with modern weapons needs to saturation bomb since they can just hit the target on the first try.
>if there is a chinese logo on a civilian port crane ten years ago, that means china is winning!
No. US has virtually no commercial ship production and that's where naval surge capacity comes from. There is no infrastructure or skilled labor force to rapidly scale up naval ship production. It's completely unlike 1940. If anything, it's sort of the opposite because China builds almost more tonnage than everyone else in the world combined.
US needs to count on their stuff being a lot better because in a long war they will get buried by China's output.
If you make that argument, you also have to account for this factor: shipbuilding yards in range of bomb or missile strikes. While China might have an initial advantage in shipbuilding output, those are all within striking distance of land based missile platforms.
Meanwhile, unless Chinese subs put ICBMs right onto American shipyards, America has the ability to purchase land, turn it into ship yards, train up the work force, and supply them all from domestic or allies without general concern of being molested. Even if the Pacific side of America IS threatened, the East Coast has quite a few shipyards and locations that can be used for it. Of course, Chinese most likely would not be able to use the Panama Canal so they would have to sail around S. America and reduce the effectiveness of their naval assets like subs and even possibly raiders.
Additionally, the massive chinese fishing fleet that operate in both the Atlantic and Pacific would either be sunk or captured in case of war (removal of enemy strategic assets) and cause similar food shortages that so plagued the Japanese during WWII.
>tl:dr: in a war, chinas initial industrial output is quickly degraded to a percentage of itself, while america has no or very little such concerns
Can China even operate in the North Atlantic? Like, aside from American & allied naval presence in the area, can they supply their fleet that far out? Where would they be based out of?
Anyone offering the PLAN fleet basing rights to attack America knows they're signing their country up to be destroyed by the USA in the event of war. Whereas America has tons of naval bases right next to China and the countries hosting them are countries that China hates and wants to subjugate or destroy anyways (because the Chinese are a miserable, hateful little people) and in many cases the American military presence is the only reason China hasn't attacked them already.
>Can China even operate in the North Atlantic?
I think it would be prudent to assume so, for the sake of not underestimating their subs tactical reach. It would be very limited, but could divert a handful of NATO surface ships to protect convoys and commerce. I cannot think of any friendly ports, except maybe Murmansk? even then that would be dubious, but cannot be dismissed outright.
It really comes down to how effectively trained a sub crew is, the submarines legs (stores and fuel), and friendly ports. Chinese subs doctrine seems to be focused on the Pacific and SCS in particular, but you never know
lmao no, we know they can't do that.
You're proposing a sub is going to go the Atlantic from halfway around the world and seriously threaten shipping. The sub is just going to run out of armament, submarine tactics in a serious anti-shipping role requires a lot of support in the area being convoy raided.
but it cannot be dismissed as a possibility, to do so would diminish the very real danger they may present to commerce. I dislike the Chinese immensely, probably more than most anons on this board, but to underestimate any foe is to invite disaster.
Shoot, america has the best air superiority fighter for 40 years because they did not want to underestimate the ruskis with their MiG-25. So developing plans, tactics, and technology to deal with them is wise. Even refining ASW doctrine from the Cold War would be better than saying "lel chinese suck". If anything, its a great exercise in thought for the Naval War College
>but it cannot be dismissed as a possibility
It can be concretely dismissed as a possibility that China can threaten meaningful shipping in the Atlantic.
This isn't a "Chinese suck" problem. It's unironically impossible even with a sub that has infinite fuel and food to actually make America lose a war just by sinking Atlantic shipping. They still need support ships for armament.
This is unironically like saying a single fighter can destroy every bomber in a WW2 bombing raid. It doesn't matter what cheat codes you give the fighter, it'll just run out of ammo.
>This is unironically like saying a single fighter can destroy every bomber in a WW2 bombing raid. It doesn't matter what cheat codes you give the fighter, it'll just run out of ammo.
>implying
negative ghost anon, thats not an accurate assessment of what I am saying. Even if only one Chinese sub is operating in the north atlantic, it poses a modicum of danger to NATO and civilian naval assets. Its a threat in itself. Even if that chinese sub sinks 8 commercial ships and expends all of its munitions in doing so, there is no guarantee from NATOs viewpoint that there are not one or more chinese subs in theatre. This necessitates surface ASW vessels and aircraft to be allocated to that area of operations. Maybe no more than 4 or 5 ships, and a couple of ASW aviation squadrons, but those could have been used in the Pacific instead.
As well as that, citizens are not too keen on hearing that the SS Sumcarghoship and several others sank from sub attacks and the navy isnt doing anything about it because "hey we got a lot more of those". Perhaps there is an acceptable operational loss rate, but that requires an actual war to analyze how people and the government would respond
>negative ghost anon, thats not an accurate assessment of what I am saying. Even if only one Chinese sub is operating in the north atlantic, it poses a modicum of danger to NATO and civilian naval assets.
This isn't good enough.
for?
>The operational losses taken from a submarine run wild are negligible
perhaps from a numbers point of view, but the citizens of NATO countries who lost family
members to subs would likely create quite a stir. Civilian Morale is very important for democratic nations support for a war
example:
>A ship thats carrying european goods meant for the American public is sunk
>within it carried a huge shipment of brand new GPUs
>GPU prices skyrocket, anons galore lament their wallets
>enough anons write to their congressmen complaining how the war is effecting their quality of life
>congress pushes for a token force to chase after and/or escort civilian naval commerce
>civilian merchant ships have to move in convoys for protection from now on
>longer lead times for foreign goods from europe
>this again effects the civilian populace
again, this is all hypothetical for the idea that Chinese subs could possibly threaten atlantic commerce
Realistically any Chinese sub operating in the Atlantic would be doing intelligence work, not commerce raiding.
Yes, and what I am saying is the meta of ASW is a waste or a bonus depending on your perspective.
The operational losses taken from a submarine run wild are negligible. Chasing it is nice, if you get it, but the cost of the sub and the ASW hunt hardware combined are more than the damage it can do. Navies keep the two traditions alive but economically its probably more effective to spend the money on buying more cargo ships , and militarily, a long range bomber force with ASHMs can kill a lot more ships a lot faster. Subs just don't carry many stowed kills without nuclear weapons involved.
>torpedoes on an invincible and invisible submarine: about 30
>number of container ships in a given ocean at a time: over 5000
I am demorarized
The US strategic partners are also ship builders, they could have their work forces moved to the usa where they'd be virtually untouchable while the Chinese shipyards are being bombed. Or just continue to ramp production in Japan/SK.
>US needs to count on their stuff being a lot better
USAbros...I don't feel so good...maybe we should just go ahead and pledge allegiance to Chairman Xi so we don't suffer immense casualties.
How is China going to make lots of ships when they need iron and energy shipped to them in order to make that stuff? Russia for sure can't do give it to them.
We have well over 3x the tonnage of the next biggest navy
To extend this reasoning further, subs are the same principle as paratroopers, simply on the opposite end of the endurance spectrum (like snipers). Threats in being can shape the environment, so they're nice to have for a wealthy military which wants all the gold-plated widgets, but they don't win wars.
China is capable of being self sufficient in food and with cooperation with russia can easily supply a steel production that would be 5-10x western output for many years, so naval blockade by USA would be damaging but not a catastrophe
Assuming neither side directly attacks eachother, the chinese could easily out attrition the west in Eurasian proxy wars but wouldnt dare go further than taiwan.
They would make good land gains but wouldnt be able to get rid of or harm US power in any major way and would lose 50 million men in the process. The problem is the US has unfair geography advantage in that it cant be attacked via proxy, so can ride out wars and lose very little.
China is capable of being self-sufficient in food at the cost of a massive drop in QoL, and that is a major concern because of both existing socioeconomic issues facing China and the lack of a mitigating factor to offset discontent at shortages and rationing. If the USA isn't putting a single boot on Chinese soil then the threshold for what the Chinese will tolerate is going to be much lower, especially over a Taiwanese conflict started by their own government.
If a war happens, China will have a famine within 6 months.
>A war against china
what are you Black folk smoking. The israelites would never allow that to happen.
The adults are discussing things honey go to bed
da JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS
I swear to god there's /k/ posters who view America like vatBlack folk view Russia
>America is never wrong
>America always wins
>America easily won the Vietnam and Afghanistan wars
>America is the savior of the white race
>America could easily restore all of its industry if it felt like it
>but it doesn't because that just makes it more based somehow
OP the US cant even protect it’s own borders plus it destroyed its own manufacturing base and sent it to china decades ago.
Why? Can anyone on the planet? Will China be able to protect the facilities of which there are hundreds that are needed to produce modern fighters, or cruise missiles? Maintain the supply of microchips? Having the ability to build a ghost city, or lay down rail to nowhere does not equal the ability to make 5th Gen fighters while being bombed. And I am not saying the US can either. But an actual modern peer war would involve everyone using mostly what they have on hand.
No, the US cannot replace losses, it is a late stage empire.
It won't even necessarily take a war, as time moves on and technology advances, the US will have to recapitalise it's military force regardless as the 1980s-90s force ages out.
The US submarine and carrier force are already shrinking and that was through 12 years of plain economic sailing for the US economy.
Or you know rational downsizing after the cold war. But I see your thing is vast ignorance of the actual driving forces of reality
The problem is the US cannot easily upsize again, it would take wartime powers just to get to what used to be peacetime levels of production.
The Chinese meanwhile are barely even pressing the limits of what they could produce, they have idle yard capacity.
Who is supposed to believe this shit?
Remember how the royal navy was designed to beat the next two powers combined prior to world war one?
After the second world war it wasn't even the premier navy any more.
Britain was no longer the shipbuilding powerhouse it once was and the first world war effectively bankrupted it.
As technology shifted all of the old ships that used to be the basis of it's naval supremacy became obsolete and it couldn't afford to replace them all with current designs.
They implemented the Washington naval treaty to try and save their budget, reeling from massive debt obligations, but as soon as there was an excuse to ignore the treaty they were dramatically eclipsed by the United States.
Oh just frick off no one cares homie
Except that's not true, you can't build a 5gen fighter with the same tooling you use for salad spinners or or even cars. There is no equilent to Ford switching over its plants to armament. And even in WW2, Ford had to build a new plant for the b29. You are making the mistake of fighting the last war.
So we build new plants..?
The country's not even 250 years old.
The US is the oldest country in the world not counting fake countries like San Marino. Or are you going to claim the China of today is the same China of the Han dynasty.
Are you moronic?
Probably? The US basically has all the parts in place for ramping up wartime production. It’s not that crazy
when the Chinese manufactured happy meal toys stop coming in ameriKKKa will collapse