If 9mm has benefitted greatly from advancements in bullet and powder technology over the past 40 years, wouldn't that also mean that .45 and .40 ...

If 9mm has benefitted greatly from advancements in bullet and powder technology over the past 40 years, wouldn't that also mean that .45 and .40 have also become a lot better than it was in the past?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Increasing the projectile weight while remaining at the same subsonic velocity would be pretty based

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Seismic +M

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sure, still misses the hallmark of 9mm though.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >.357mag
      Anon, are you sure you're on the right board?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >9mm
      Karen
      >45
      Fudd
      >10mm
      >5.7
      Zoommers and Milenials
      >9x18
      Gulag-homo
      >.357
      Oldfag
      >50AE
      Daddy issues
      >.357SIG
      "I have an .40 S&W handgun, but don't want to look like a gay here"

      >88 GG

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Daddy issues
        size queen

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >"I have an .40 S&W handgun, but don't want to look like a gay here"
        why is 40 for gays?
        i just got a 40 and now i feel ashamed

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is why you retards and children should not be allowed on the internet, you guys fall for everything you read. There's nothing wrong with 40 as a round, the only bad thing about it is that it's expensive compared to 9mm, but 40 is a great round, it has the added benefit that it's cheap bulk flat nosed FMJ ammo is pretty good for defensive purposes compared to 9mms cheap round nose 9mm that is not good for defensive purposes.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >There's nothing wrong with 40 as a round
            There's nothing wrong choosing warm man over cold woman either.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            .40 is only a few cents more than 9mm and even that is balanced out by not needing to entertain expensive specialty cope rounds that don't match your training rounds.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Stop worrying about what anon gays on the internet think. Get out and shoot.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          .40 is based, pretty niche but it does what it was designed to do. Holds more ammo than a .45 and has more power than a 9mm, but with more felt recoil than both and insignificantly and ever so slightly stronger than .45 (most ballistics tests have them performing about the same).

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Woah this is jaded and hates everything, thats so fucking cool. I kinda want to suck his cock.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, because it's a false claim.
    9mm, .40, .45 have always done the same per bullet, just 9mm gives you more bullets with less recoil, this has been known and discussed in systemic reviews and meta-analysis since at least 1985.
    What you see is .45 fudds finally coming on board, and to cope they say it's "modern bullet technology" and ignore that it was always the best choice.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >t. has never shot a living organism with a handgun

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nta but ok and?
        a 9mm is going to be just as effective as a .45 if all other factors are equal.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          then why did the conceal carry guy in illinois have to empty the magazine of his 9mm to stop the mall shooter, while the concealed carry guy in fort worth stopped the church shooter with a single shot from his 357 sig?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because one had better shot placement than the other.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Shot placement is king. Penetration is queen, shot placement doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have the penetration to reach vital organs. Expansion is a meme and useless.

            Look at what hunters use. They prioritize penetration above all. Fancy jagged edges aren’t going to put down an animal. A shot through the lungs, through the heart will.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Hollow points fuck up some of the meat, though. Hunters aim for vitals, and penetrating them is a requirement. Nothing like a self defense situation.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Thankfully a .45 will penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This. You try and use hollows for hunting and you'll get laughed off the campsite.

              Weight retention and penetration are key. Can't punch a hole through both lungs if the round explodes in the first one.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                seriously?
                straight out illegal to hunt anything with non-expanding bullets here.
                308 is still likely to go through an grown elk if you hit lungs they just fuck up more shit on the way.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Hollow points in a rifle are unreliable due to the meplat clogging, resulting in no expansion.
                If penetration was all that mattered, people would use fmj, they don't.
                Shot placement is #1, you only need enough penetration to reach vitals, then you want as much expansion that you can possibly get, hopefully without separation, as that ruins meat.
                There's a reason the Hornady ELD-M bullets are so damn popular for hunting, violent expansion.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Look at what hunters use. They prioritize penetration above all.
              Not exactly. Rifle hunters want maximum energy transfer. This means controlled expansion bullets that retain as much weight as possible while ideally penetrating enough to basically fall on the ground after breaking the skin on the far side.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >thinks punching through a moose/bear’s shoulder blades is the same as scrambling Tyrone’s organs.

              Then why do all defensive loads use hollow points or ballistic tips? And if penetration is all that matters, why aren’t we hunting with AP rounds?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Crazy what happens when you shoot someone in the head.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              You might say, it's mind blowing!

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            come on retard even vidya kids know what "headshot" means

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The mall shooter was 40 yards away.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because idiots don't carry 357sig and 50gr 2300fps liberty civil defense ammo. Also people need to stop training for COM and embrace the iliac hitbox meta

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >iliac hitbox
              Stopping by shattering a pelvis?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous
              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Right, is the objective to ground the target by shattering their pelvis? There's similar reasoning behind choice of point of aim on a charging bear, in that you want to get its front legs to collapse by knocking out the shoulder blade.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I can hit CNS.
              I'll go CNS.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Please don't mention the name of my city I'm a public setting. There's already too.many people moving here as it is.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              doxxing you as we speak and browsing zillo to find cheap housing so all my leftist friends move in right next door and annoy you to death

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I hope you and your friends were vaccinated against CoVid!
                Protect the community.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            church dude landed a headshot moron

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >just as good!
          lol

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            What an intelligent and well thought out argument. You've given me a lot to think about.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine actually being this stupid, unironically. Bullets simply ignore the physics of reality according to this retard.

      The fact that the .45 ACP is a larger and heavier round translates to more transferred energy onto the target, larger wound channels, and higher lethality. All military studies have shown this, conclusively, and only the FBI study, which even they admit there was a difference, argued that the difference didn't matter because they wanted guns with lower recoil because they were all limp-wristed gays that had horrible accuracy, and the increase of women in the FBI meant they couldn't keep using the larger, more powerful, .45 ACP. This was repeated when the 10mm round was tested decades later as a replacement, which had every advantage over the 9mm, but they decided against it because of recoil and complaints, so they botched another study saying how the 9mm was the better choice. I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years from now they'll go down to .32 auto because of beta cucks complaining about the 9mm recoil.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        1. Velocity is much more important than weight for kinteric energy
        2. Kinetic energy has 0 effect on wounding
        This has been known to science since the 1980s

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >DOOOD I LOVE MY DATA
          then surely you're aware of the data that shows that nearly all self-defense shootings are resolved in a handful of rounds? are you also aware of the data that shows that in nearly all self defense shootings, a reload isn't needed?

          why would i carry two 17+5 mags when 8+1 has been more than enough for most cases?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hey, I left some goalposts around here somewhere.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              i haven't moved any goalposts. i never conceded on the point of .45 being superior to 9mm, because it is.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >velocity actually matters
                >>NUH UH MUH CAPACITOOORINO
                Yeah buddy. FBI CDC Police and whatever other agencies that keep track of that shit have discovered there is no real difference between the big three for some time now to the point it comes to user preference and go figure the smaller gun with better recoil control, higher capacity, and cheaper costs wins out. Shocking.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                except we've established that mag capacity doesn't really matter either.
                so i guess shoot whatever you want and nothing is really better than anything?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Need and not have, most people don't even need to worry about carrying either but they still do.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >better recoil control, higher capacity, and cheaper costs
                >the ideal gun if you're poor, weak, and miss constantly
                Glad we had this talk

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not really, I have a tractor because as much as I like putting in fence posts an auger sure is neat.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ok, two can play that game:
                Why you need 30 rounds, plan on missing alot? Statistically all you need is 2 rounds for SD. so why exactly are you carrying an AR15 with 30 mags and not a .50 Beowulf with 10? Oh because you understand having a big magazine, low recoil and cheap cost all bring massive tactical and strategic advantages when faced with the reality (and logistic) of warfare? Glad we had this talk, now waddle back to your DURR HUNT with your 45 (cause they dont make a 46 amirite)

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You could propel an Iowa-class deck guns' broadside with how assblasted this post is

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                In all fairness, capacity is overblown, and - statistically speaking - all you need is a shot or two, for both hunting AND self defense. Double barrel shotguns fit this range perfectly, as they are the perfect capacity and can be significantly more expensive than any tricked out AR or glock (including those with thermals) when properly sourced. Manlets and poors need not apply. If you miss, it's your own fault, and you simply were not worthy of owning a gun. To be frank, if you use anything other than a double barrel shotgun, you're a larper who has seen too many films. Pistols, in comparison to shotguns of any gauge, are diminutive and altogether worthless. Automatics are unreliable, and revolvers are for wannabe cowboys. Many times people have been shot with handguns in self defense ranges - with 9mm, 45 long colt, or 357 mag - and survived long enough to get off an aimed shot after. Can you name one instance of a center of mass shot within those same ranges not ending catastrophically for the target when conducted with a shotgun?

                Further, semi auto shotguns are unreliable, and pump shotguns require being jerked off to load. Both fail to look as pleasing or work as consistently as a double barrel, and use capacity crutches.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Why do you NEED two barrels? Compensating for something?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                One warning shot, one aimed follow up shot. It's the civilized thing to do. Besides, the single shot shotgun market is significantly cheaper, moreso the realm of poors.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, just carry two single shots.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >having more chances to hit is overblown
                >t. fucking contrarian gays

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >smaller gun with better recoil control, higher capacity wins out
                goddamn how will 9mm chuds ever recover the brutal mogging by 32 super

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Why would you carry 8+1 when you can carry 15+1?
            More is objectively safer. That isn't up for debate. It's on you to explain what practical reason you have for handicapping yourself, especially when you can have more that is easier to handle to boot.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              8+1?
              >I only need ONE

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Then .380 or better yet .30 SC is what we should be gunning for.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >2. Kinetic energy has 0 effect on wounding
          confirmed retard

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >2. Kinetic energy has 0 effect on wounding
          And mental retardation has zero effect on your posts

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >2. Kinetic energy has 0 effect on wounding
          brother, are you feeling alright?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Requires 2,000 fps to overcome tissue elasticity. The energy gets you better expansion and/or penetration, neither of which makes a significant difference in pistol rounds when used on a human target that's attacking you.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I will shoot you with either a .223 or a .45 ACP in the stomach, which do you choose?
          Remember velocity and energy doesn't matter, lol.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            no criminal is going to approach you and watch you pull out a 1911 and go 'welp boys he didn't pull out an ar-15 let's do this'

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Nice deflection there gay.
              Would you rather be shot by an AR or a fudd 1911?
              Since by your logic, the .45 will do more damage.
              In reality though, it will not, not even clode, because velocity and expansion really does fucking count.
              No pistol cartridges (with very few exceptions) do much more than cause you to leak from your new orifices, they don't cause any shock effect in the body, so bullet placement and adequate expansion is all that matters.
              Any common pistol cartridge will kill just as fast, assuming you hit vital organs and the bullet does it's job, even a .32 will kill you just as fast, just as dead as a .45, which is pretty slow in most cases.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you fucking idiot.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Limp wrist detected

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stopping power is a myth, retard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Then why isn't everyone using .25 ACP? What makes everything below 9mm do zero damage, and everything above it not do anything well enough to justify itself until you get to anti materiel rifle calibers? You guys are worse fudds that you can accuse the .45 guys of being. And for an older round too.
          t. guy who owns multiple handguns in multiple calibers

          Shot placement is king. Penetration is queen, shot placement doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have the penetration to reach vital organs. Expansion is a meme and useless.

          Look at what hunters use. They prioritize penetration above all. Fancy jagged edges aren’t going to put down an animal. A shot through the lungs, through the heart will.

          >They prioritize penetration above all.
          Yeah, which is why they all use non expanding FMJ, right?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >What makes everything below 9mm do zero damage
            The Greg Ellifritz study. Everything beyond .380 was basically the same while everything below had way more failures to stop.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >ellifritz
              showed the 32 acp soundly beating everything below 44 magnum

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, look at the failures to stop like I said. There is an issue with small sample sizes from the mouse gun calibers, but the failure to stop is consistent across the two different categories.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Then why did the US government commission. 45 ACP specifically for its stopping power against the Moro warriors in the Philippines? Why did they give the round glowing reviews?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            because they were using 38 colt, which is practically a 22 compared to 45acp and 45 colt

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            because they were fucking retards just like .45 fags are til this day. the thompson lagarde tests actually showed that the difference between .38 and .45 is inconsequential and that penetration is what really matters, yet they pulled a minimum caliber requirement straight out of their asses.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              the 38colt revolvers they used at the time were dogshit

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years from now they'll go down to .32 auto because of beta cucks complaining about the 9mm recoil.
        kek, I find it very likely

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years from now they'll go down to .32 auto
        God I wish, 32 ACP is based and doesnt deserve to be dead

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          .32 acp chads RISE UP

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They'll never go down to .32 ACP, because it's actually a good caliber for pocket guns, and because, despite mocking the concept, they're still hung up on STOPPAN POWAH, or they wouldn't make threads just to whine about calibers larger than 9mm while also claiming that anything below 9mm gets ignored by DT like this was Fallout: New Vegas or something. Their own graph shows .32 ACP (Awesome Chad Projectile) as more effective than 9mm, so while they post it to show 9mm, .40, and .45 are all roughly equal, they also ignore it when it goes against their instagram meta cartridge. They're worse than the fudds they accuse others of being, because at least those fudds could reload and wildcat stuff like .45 super, 10mm, .460 Rowland, etc. What do the instagram metafags have? .30 super carry? (Which they also won't use because it's not 9mm?)

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why is .30 SC not talked about? Isn't it similar to 9mm but has more capacity?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Because it's not 9mm. They /are/ the fudds they bitch about.

              Unless they have 2a armor or better lol

              Why are you shooting at the police with a handgun?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Why are you shooting at the police with a handgun
                I would never shoot at anyone who would die to protect my inalienable God given rights

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              .30 Superduper is fine if you don't mind paying more than 1.5 times as much for ammo.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              it's a boutique 9mm alternative with the only claimed advantage being capacity,
              Perfect choice for the people who split hairs over 7 or 8, or 11 or 12 rds. in a microcompact.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              I find 30 super carry interesting. Putting aside the pressure argument, it gives you baseline 9mm performance with significantly more rounds. I feel it could have a interesting life in PCC/SMG's. And as a .38 Special guy, who am I to talk about performance. Thoughts Anons?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                if you don't mind paying 1.5 times the price of 9mm go for it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ball .45 ACP ammo has same energy as ball 9x19 (483 jouls vs 481).

        Only reason .45 ACP still lives, is the cope +P loads.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years from now they'll go down to .32 auto because of beta cucks complaining about the 9mm recoil.
        kek, I find it very likely

        >smaller gun with better recoil control, higher capacity wins out
        goddamn how will 9mm chuds ever recover the brutal mogging by 32 super

        >ellifritz
        showed the 32 acp soundly beating everything below 44 magnum

        >I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years from now they'll go down to .32 auto
        God I wish, 32 ACP is based and doesnt deserve to be dead

        >LOVERS

        I don't care, give me a .50-110 with a meplat wide enough that the geneva convention might consider it a problem.
        shot placement be damned a straight half inch slug out of your person is going to cause issues. what all those anons aren't considering is the adrenaline and shock, with that you aren't feeling a goddamn thing, in a PrepHole inspired retard moment I bounced a .32acp 71gr fmj off of my femur on my 21st birthday, the same day I bought two pistols, the .357 didn't shoot me. I didn't feel anything until about a day later.

        >HATER
        5 to 1 blow out!

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Everything you said is 1000% correct. The trannies will seethe. 45 is the white man's caliber.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Whiney bitch detected

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      9mm is so unbelievably overrated and over shilled. It does nothing better than .40 or .45 and absolutely gets fucking mogged by 10mm.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        counter question.
        Are .40 S&W and .45 ACP doing things better than 9mm?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          winning world wars

          WE JUST HAD THIS FUCKING THREAD YESTERDAY

          we have this thread every day, welcome to k

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >winning world wars
            So did .32, 380 and 9mm unironically. .45 was not only cartridge allies used.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              9mm lost you nazi CHUD

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Either you are trolling or uninformed.
                Ever heard of Sten SMG and HI-Power?
                What you think was Britain's pistol caliber at WWII?

                Also 9x19mm is from German Empire, you, uneducated prick.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                and the Germans lost you larping chud gtfo fasc prick

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Don't forget to get boosted for CoVid-19!

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Shit up nerd

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              .32 is also based, 380 is pretty dope for pocket carry, and 9mm is only for ebil nazies and da good guy smgs

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                380 has some surprisingly good loads now a days, some of which reliably expand; you can't count it out

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think if production of some cool .32 acp pistols restarted, we could see interesting new loads for that round as well.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I know at least ammo wise, Hornady makes a pretty solid 60 grain hollow point load for .32

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                .327 Fed Mag all day every day bb

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You know that new .30 SC? It's actually a .32.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                32 acp is pretty anemic in the us loadings for some reason, both in terms of velocity and bullet design. the sellier&bellot 7.65 browning runs about 150fps faster than e.g. winchester 32 acp, and its bullet is longer and more spitzer-shaped and tumbles pretty viciously on impact. when i carry a 32 acp, that's what's in the boiler. it's a little snappier than us loadings but nowhere near 380, it's still a bullet hose.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                The main pros of 32 is the ridiculously low recoil, the compact guns it's chambered in, and it's kill record, which is oddly high. Hornady just saw a market and exploited it, as they should have. If and when I get a Beretta tomcat, this will be what I run

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Beretta tomcat sucks shit, if you know anything about shooting handguns, you'll know it sucks, which is a shame because I like the 32acp but you'll know what I mean with it's wicked slide bite and lack of extractor. Meaning ZERO ability to tap, rack, bang and fix a malfunction quickly if there would to be one.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                This I did not know. I do still like the look and tip up barrel however, tho I will take your input into consideration. What would u recommend in terms of modern 32 handguns?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                here's a gel test of it

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It conceal carries better and performs the same.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        9mm TUIs penetrate Kevlar.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Women have to qualify. Hence the .38 short aka 9mm.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think a lot of it has to do with hollow points justifying 9mm. 380 acp and 9mm are similar besides that 9mm hollow points expand while 380 acp hp ammo is practically fmj, with a few exceptions. And the added ~100-200 ft lbs with larger ammunition doesn’t justify the recoil, capacity and concealability of 9mm for most people.

    I dont give a shit about hollow points besides my bedside gun though so it’s all up to you.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i remember what a solid copper projectile did for .32, i bet money that a solid copper .45 would be legendary

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Magtech makes them in various calibers a bit expensive but good ammo

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, they just had to call it differently since even though it’s essentially the same round, it can blow up older guns.

    .45 Super and it’s Hispanicier brother .460 Rowland.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    45 super civil defense when

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    WE JUST HAD THIS FUCKING THREAD YESTERDAY

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Trying to argue which pistol caliber is the best, is like trying to argue which piece of shit tastes the best.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Based.

      All pistol rounds are a last resort. They're the weapon you use to get to your rifle.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We've improved velocity based wounding mechanisms. 45acp lacks the velocity to take advantage of these improvements. 45 super can, though.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    .45 make bigger hole, bigger hoel hurt more big.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      .45 government ball. They only government I trust and the last ball those pavement apes will touch

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Based.
        .45 AfroCoon Patrol is the right choice for dealing with the dreaded North American Pavement Ape, Feral Joggers and even Future Engineers.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          .45 Anti Colored Person

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ape Control Projectile

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Aryan Colonialism Protector

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anti Coon Pistol

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Aggressive Cunt Punisher

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                African Cranial Penetrator

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Aboriginee Colonizing Pussybreaker

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Australian Cunt Pounder

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Afroamerican Crossdresser Pounder

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Lewd and naughty

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anorexic dicky Plower

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anti dickyposter Projectile

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Alabama Cricket Popper.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Ashkenazi Concentration Place

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Always Clapping Pinoys

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Automatic Cunt Pistol

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Always Chump'in Pussy's

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                African Crime Preventer

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Always Cuming Premature

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Afro Control Pistol

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Additional Chromosome Provider

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is true tho

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wouldn't that also mean that .45 and .40 have also become a lot better than it was in the past?
    Not to the same degree, no.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >your choice is any bullet that will puncture the enemy and reduce blood pressure
    >GIVE ME LESS BULLETS, BUT BIGGER
    Why?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      go ahead and post your glock gay

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's a 92FS.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Shouldn't it be 5.7x28?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I fucking wish. The lack of good small caliber center fire full size handguns is ridiculous.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All choices in firearmsbare a series of compromises and trade-offs.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    9mm+p have gotten up to pressures near 40,000 psi, which is close to 10mm, .40, .357 sig

    .45 acp is woefully bad at 20,000 psi

    9mm has more capacity than .40 and fits in smaller guns that 10mm tho. So it's the ideal caliber.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >So it's the ideal caliber.
      for what? duty work? The last dude that killed a mass shooter did so in under 10 rounds, and you're never going to fight a mass shooter

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >pressure
      Interesting category of cope you chose there

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      PSI

      Pounds per
      Square
      Inch

      Know how to calculate the area of a circle?

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, but .40 and .45 still suffer from increased bullet price, wear on the barrel/breech/extractor, less brass to reload/sell, and even increased storage costs. So imo, 9x19 still wins out from a cents per round standpoint.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Slower bullet
      >More wear
      k
      >Less brass
      what
      >Storage costs
      JFC

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >.45
      >Increased wear
      Lmao, kiddy just outed himself.
      .45 is a notoriously low pressure and low wear cartridge. 19,000 PSI for .45 vs 35,000 PSI for 9mm, nearly half the pressure. The larger surface area of the case head also means less "thrust" on the breech face, which means (assuming the gun was designed around .45) lower slide velocity, which in turn means lower extractor and ejector wear, lower magazine wear, and lower recoil spring wear. The large diameter and slow velocity of .45 also ensures that the barrel lasts basically forever.
      .45 ACP was designed to be a low wear cartridge so that it was easier on the autoloading designs of the early 20th century. Anybody who complains about capacity has apparently never seen a Glock 21.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >larger surface area of the case head also means less "thrust" on the breech face
        other way around. larger surface area means more thrust on the breech face. breech thrust is proportional to pressure * breech face surface area.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >.40 wears on my shitty glock that was half assed to market

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not that 9mm gained some massive advantage over everything else. It's that 9mm was absolute dogshit before they made it go fast enough and mushroom properly. .45 and .40 never had this problem in the first place.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >.40 S&W
    No, because it was developed in the early 90's or something.
    >.45 ACP
    Yes, but no amount of technology is going to make .45 ACP or recoil like a 9mm while still having adequate performance. Those two reasons being the ones that cause people not to choose .45 ACP.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      *smaller or make it recoil like 9mm

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      have you ever fired a .45? I was at the range last week and I shot my 9mm glock and then shot my friends .45 1911 and the recoil felt the same, likely because the 1911 has a steel frame compared to the polymer 9mm, so it soaks up recoil better.
      glock should make an aluminum lower

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You answered your own question. Nothing's going to allow .45 ACP to recoil in a glock 19 size and weight package the way it does out of a steel 1911. Even if there was that technology would likely apply similarly to 9mm making it recoil even less.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          but nobody does that though. every 9mm handgun released right now is polymer framed. if there was a modern 9mm from a reputable company using a steel frame I would buy one

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >if there was a modern 9mm from a reputable company using a steel frame I would buy one
            evidently not because there are loads

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Smith and Wesson is making metal-framed M&P pistols now. The CSX is also amazing, but it's a subcompact 9mm with aluminum framing

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              I think the CSX is interesting. Putting aside the caliber argument, it's all metal and hammer fired, which let's you change the trigger pull. With a striker fired system, the trigger pull it has is the one it's stuck with, but with the CSX, I can start with single action, and then get used to double action

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >S&W 5906
            >West German Sig (or P230)
            >new Walther Q4
            >92FS Inox
            >Steyr GB
            >early CZ75
            >Zastava 99
            >Arcus DA
            >Ruger P85
            >who knows how many 1911s in 9mm/.38 Super
            This is not counting sixty gorrillions of older guns that will still work fine or the innumerable clones of proven platforms (PT92, Girsan Regard, Tanfoglio Witness, Star BM9, any number of Hi-power derivatives)

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Weight of a suppressor keeps a 45 on target very easy. While being hearing safe. It's a caliber for discerning gentlemen. 9mm is for nogs, women, and poorfags

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            45 is for geriatric closeted homosexuals

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              45 is for blowing away every gay who gets in my way

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Unless they have 2a armor or better lol

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't know where you live, but in my area, some sketchy dude isn't gonna be smart enough to do that IF I get jumped in the first place, so a 45 will work fine, or in my case, a .38 special

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                better not look in the mirror then.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Deep inside, all of you know - even if you won't admit it - that you don't respect 9mm. It's a bitch caliber for women and small Asian types.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                okay, gramps. time for your nap.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            9mm is better than .45 even for suppressed use.
            As long as you can penetrate to vitals and have expansion, shit's dead, cartridge doesn't really matter.
            Shot placement is king, bullet selection is queen.

            .223 outperforming .50 BMG in wounding due to bullet contruction:

            Why 9mm outperforms .45 for suppressor use:

            .50 BMG on game with good shot placement, little effect:

            ?t=367

            Conclusion, this board is flooded with fudds and nogun retards.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >9mm outperforms .45 for suppressor use
              Subsonic 9mm is expensive and performs poorly, I don't care how quiet you can make it

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                45 is honestly the suppressor king; it's big, fat, holds a shit ton of energy, and you'll most likely be using it in a smg set up if you're suppressing it, meaning recoil becomes less of an issue. 9mm has major tradeoffs at that point

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                All 147gr 9mm is naturally subsonic just like 45. Your argument is invalid.

                If you meant suppresor specific loads, they use powder designed to burn in a manner to aid suppression. It's nice but not necessary and carries an unjustified mark up. Any 147gr 9mm is fine ane works reliably.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Not him, but Yes, but at that point it has way less weight, and hense energy. And if I'm firing suppressed, it's from a PCC, because if I can't conceal it, might as well get a stock with it

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                PCC are inferior to basic handguns unless you're shooting greater than 25 yards shouldered. That means not in self defense and typically either with an SBR or brace. Braces may be getting banned and most people won't bother with an SBR. So, I think PCC are kind of lame.
                Additionally, you can conceal carry a suppressed pistol, not edc but you can conceal it pretty easy and 9mm is easier to suppress because of the smaller hole and smaller volume needed.
                Lastly, there just isn't a functional difference between pistol rounds achieving 12" penetration in a human body.

                I get it that if you're limited on speed, you can increase weight. That's why when everything was black powder we ended up wiyh stuff like 4 bore but when you're ahooting people the statistics, the math and the science say there's no practical or meaningful difference in outcome.
                However there is a meaningful difference in carry hun dimensions, wright and ammo cost.

                I'll stick with 9mm

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Same Anon, at least with a PCC you get a long barrel for good velocity, which even with 45acp, won't go supersonic. And what do you mean you can conceal carry a suppressed pistol, a can is fucking huge. Even if you could, not for edc, which for the common micro compact, they don't come with threads to begin with. Finally one advantage of a pcc is round count. Lots of rounds in slim mags, perfect for defending the house

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >3" barrel
                >pic related

                My threaded p226 has a 5" barrel.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I'm guessing all 9mm since its tfbtv? Why the hell would you give a PCC a 3 inch barrel, just why? You have so much more room to give it more barrel for more energy. As for your p226, is it in 45?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                No, I've posted that in terminal application I do not believe there is any difference in affect between the 2 rounds and so I prefer 9mm because the guns are smaller and lighter and because the range ammo is considerably cheaper.
                When I want to step up in power for handguns I go to 10mm Glock 20 and a 3" model 60 pro-series .357. Those are my outdoors guns. Against people all pistol rounds are effectively the same with exceptions at the extremes.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You do have a point in the cost per round. I'll give you that. That said, I'll say this. I'm a 38 special guy, it's what I carry in my J frame every day. I know it doesn't hit as hard as a 45, nor can it be silenced due to being a revolver. I use it for the WIDE variety of loadings, bullet types, and low recoil. What I'm saying is 9mm is a good middle ground, but like 38, it has drawbacks that other rounds, like 45, are good at. I know a 45 is gonna drop a man flat, 9mm might take a few more shots; it's all a compromise of how far you're willing to go

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >know a 45 is gonna drop a man flat, 9mm might take a few more shots;
                This is a meme and false. Non-vital hits will be reacted to identically and vital hits will also have the same outcome. We're talking modern hollow points which are all designed to give 12" of penetration. The slightly larger expansion of the .45 may cause slightly more bleeding but by the time that matters the fight is long since over. The only advantage of .45 is slightly less deflection through a hard barrier.
                Rifle rounds in excess of 2,000 fps can over come tissue elasticity and so have meaningful differences in stopping power. For pistols, against people that isn't the case and they're all designed for the same penetration. The small diference in hole size washes out under the influence of other facyors such as target mindset, aggression and shot placement. Militaries go with higher capacity of 9mm but for civilians most defensive shootings take place with well under the capacity of either.

                There just is no difference in affect.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >The slightly larger expansion of the .45 may cause slightly more bleeding
                A bigger hole is a bigger hole. The bigger expanded bullet gives me a better chance to hit the heart along with the DEEP DISH penetration, which 45 has in spades.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Buddy I'm telling you this is an old debate. Yes:
                >In general, a 9mm round will expand from 0.355” to around 0.6”, virtually doubling in diameter. In comparison, the 45 ACP will do the same, expanding from 0.452” to around 1”, again doubling. This means that the 45 ACP will create a larger permanent wound channel inside the bad guy.
                I'm not failing to acknowlede that.
                However, 9mm is more controllable and the other factors wash make the differences moot because they are infinitely more deterministic of the outcome.

                Statistically the research has been done. There is no difference in outcome or terminal effect on an acting baddy. The belief that your 45 will drop a baddy like in a movie and 9mm is just lol 9mm, is wrong. It's dangerously wrong for you if you believe it. A gun fight is just that, a fight. You go until someone quits, bleeds out or gets popped in the head. Carry .45acp if you like it. It's just as hood as 9mm. I'm going to carry 9mm because I like to be comfy and find shooting cheap ammo more enjoyable.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I may have misphrased it, but no I don't believe that one shot will do it in most circumstances. However it will do the job in less time, which is what I'm looking for. And technology for recoil mitigation has come a long way. Take the M&P 2.0. Great with recoil, and 14 rounds of 45, fantastic. I don't want a 45 for a edc, but as a car or house gun, where I want as much firepower as possible? Hell yes.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Fair enough but by that argument you should be going with 10mm instead of .45acp.

                Also, if I were going to go .45acp, it'd be out of a 1911. If you get a 1911 with a good trigger and sights, it will be an absolute tack driver. There is no better trigger than a custom 1911 with the possible exception of the old hand fitted S&W revolvers but even then you'd have to cock it each shot to get that.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Are there any 1911s that can handle .45 super?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                10mm is where things get iffy. It certainly meets the lethality requirements, recoil gets iffy, I can handle a 45, can't say I've fired a 10mm. That and 45 is much more common, i can go into ANY ammo atore and get basic bitch ball, which will work in a pinch. And yes, I'm planning on getting a 1911, but I also want a 2.0, one for the car, one for the house. This isn't saying I don't want to try 10mm, but it's a lot of gun

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Glock 20 recoil isn't bad in my opinion but it torques on the wrist a little more. Newer shooters and women find it extreme but if you're used to .45acp, they're about the same. 10mm hollow points can give the same expansion and penetration as .45acp but a few more ft/lbs of energy. Since you aren't going to overcome tisdue elasticity that makes it identical in effect to .45acp when using defensive hollow points against people.
                It's a great round for camping because you can purpose load it for more penetration which is important for thicker animals.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I do know it's useful against animals, which is why I haven't ruled out buying one. And it's good to know about the recoil, thanks. But for defense shooting, where I want to practice A LOT, it comes down to cost, ammo availability, bullet types, and guns chambered in it. All of those mixed together is why I would prefer 45 as a house gun, and 10 mm as a woods gun, because with 10mm, firing at a bear takes WAY less aim and practice than a small person. That's how I look at it. Though if I am to get a 10mm, Colt delta elite, not a clone, the real deal, hands down

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >WAY less aim and practice
                No, if you're firing at a bear shot placement is even more important than on a person and your target is likely to be moving at you, quick. Lots of people say if it's charging at you try to shoot into the shoulder to hit the lungs and heart. Bears have thick skulls at shallow angles, perfect for deflecting rounds although I can't imagine it deflecting a hard cast 10mm with 700 ft/lbs of energy.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I meant moreso that the target itself is bigger but your iright in that I need to hit vitals

                if you don't mind paying 1.5 times the price of 9mm go for it.

                Really it's ammo capacity, and in my area, I've seen cheap cases, it's lowering in price, slowly, just give it a few years. I'm used to paying for 38 special anyway lol.

                not bigger enough to make a difference.

                The hole can be up to 1" wide depending on the hollowpoint. Where I might have JUST missed the heart with 9mm, a 45 would have hit it, which in a home defense scenario, I want because it's gonna be dark most likely

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                wrong and wrong and you're a fucking idiot.

                45 is honestly the suppressor king; it's big, fat, holds a shit ton of energy, and you'll most likely be using it in a smg set up if you're suppressing it, meaning recoil becomes less of an issue. 9mm has major tradeoffs at that point

                so are you.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                How am I wrong about 45 being good at suppression?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                9mm is better at it. I know, .45 fags have deluded themselves into thinking .45 is great for that putpose, but it's not.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                It's subsonic bro. Is it as quiet as a smaller caliber round, probably not. But it gives u hitting power, a lot of it. I'll take a fairly quiet gun that hits hard over a super quiet one that barely hits at all. And for the record I'm a 38 special guy, but unlike 9mm, I can use 158 grain rounds

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >It's subsonic bro
                so fucking what? you pretend like that's something that sets it apart, but it's not.
                https://www.wikiarms.com/search?q=147&caliber=3

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, but I get a way heavier bullet and hense energy. I don't mind 9mm for supersonic roles btw, but you can't tell me a 230 grain slug doesn't hit harder than a 147 grain slug when both are subsonic

                https://i.imgur.com/JKTZyIu.jpg

                also you're just plain wrong, again. don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

                38 Special is lower pressure and can use things like wadcutters while still being 158 grain

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >but you can't tell me a 230 grain slug doesn't hit harder than a 147 grain slug when both are subsonic
                you can't tell the difference from the effects on a meaty target. this is purely your gut feeling.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                The 45, especially if it's a hollowpoint, is gonna make a bigger hole. Especially if it's +p while remaining subsonic, like Speer gold dot G2

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                not bigger enough to make a difference.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                also you're just plain wrong, again. don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You need an impractically huge suppressor to get good suppression for .45, both in volume and diameter.
                It's a direct result of the large bore.
                It's fine for an SBR or PCC or whatever the fuck you burgers call it, but then you might as well go for something decent like .300 BLK or 8.6 BLK.
                There's really no good reason to go for .45 ACP in 2022, there's always something better for what you want to do, it's not even a good middleground for anything.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                For our purposes, we'll use Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) since their more legally accessible. Suppressors on anything but a combat Pistol, not an edc pistol, and for 45, I want it on a PCC for three major reasons: mounting rails, the stock, and the massive amount of rounds you can carry compared to a rifle. I'll take some bulk for energy, less recoil than a rifle, and round count

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Subsonic 9mm is expensive
                ...just get regular 147gr

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >recoil
      I kinda want a PX4 in 45, but it only comes in fullsize and a plastic frame.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The rotating barrel really does help offset the low weight issue from the polymer frame.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    handgun rounds have never caused enough cavitation for the differences to mean anything unless you are trying to shoot through walls, car doors, and glass at a distance. at that point i really doubt you have a self defense case outside of texas.

    ALL of them from 9mm up have more than enough penetration to reach any vital organ or blood vessel in a fat american.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's like ricers saying forced induction on cars supposedly making everything bigger than 2 liters obsolete.
    >but why can't you just stick turbos on a bigger motor?
    Uhhh, that doesn't count. Get with the times old man!
    Exact same (non) argument here. Newer bullet designs only apply to 9mm because reasons you fudd.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Exactly. What size does the super bad ass hollowpoints mushroom to? .48?

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ok, i now we have this thread all the time because this board is infested with retards but here is the fact of the matter: All of these calibers are fine for warfare/self defense. Shot placement is always king and trumps everything else. I personally prefer the 9mm for the following reason: It allows for a much higher capacity which gives me greater tactical freedom, the ability to continue a fight longer if i have to and also means i can shoot longer without reloading which, again, might just give me the edge i need. It also has low recoil and gives me very fast follow up shots, which is important for shot placement and engaging targets beyond the first shot. The fact that its very cheap gives me the advantage of always having cheap ammo to train and stock up on. All in all, bigger capacity, lower recoil and cheap price give me the ability to have more tries at proper shot placement, more easily achieved shot placement for follow up shots and train more for shot placement. All the abilitys of the 9x19 ultimately bolster shot placement, which is king

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Following this logic, the .22 LR is also worth considering.
      Ammo is even cheaper and lighter, capacity can be decent and recoil is all but nonexistent.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        .22 lr suffers from poor penetration, thats literally its only problem. 223 is literally a roided up .22 and it works fine. 5,7 is literally a roided up .22 as well and seems to work fine too

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >.22 lr suffers from poor penetration, thats literally its only problem
          I've got a Ruger 22/45 Mk III that will eat anything, but the inconsistency of .22LR is just too high to be a reliable defense round. No matter what brand, I'll have at least 1 out of every 100 rounds fail on average. Perfectly good rim strike, just no ignition. That centrifugal method to fill the rim with primer is just not reliable enough to save your life when I can shoot 500+ rounds of range 9mm and have zero failures.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Are you including Federal Punch in those brands? Top end defensive ammo doesn't suffer from those issues any more than centerfire cartridges.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Federal punch in 38 hits like a truck

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        .22 lr suffers from poor penetration, thats literally its only problem. 223 is literally a roided up .22 and it works fine. 5,7 is literally a roided up .22 as well and seems to work fine too

        There are no reliable 22lr firearms except revolvers.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That sounds like a broad sweeping generalization. There are no 100% reliable guns and no 100% reliable ammunition. Center fire is generally more reliable than rimfire, true. Although, modern manufacture of quality ammunition has made this almost not even an issue any longer. The same applies to modern rimfire guns. Any gun can experience issues if it isn’t maintained. Any ammo can fail to fire.
          All that to say, if you don’t like it don’t buy it.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >t. only shoots a few magazines of rimfire bi-annually

            The Ruger Mark IV would love a word with you.

            I'm sure it kicks ass. I'm also sure a random cartridge will choke it up at the wrong place and wrong time.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              t. Someone who doesn’t clean their guns enough or shoot quality ammo.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          The Ruger Mark IV would love a word with you.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://www.tierthreetactical.com/analyzing-1800-shootings-which-caliber-has-the-best-stopping-power/
        Actually for 380 ACP yes, it is literally about as effective if sometimes surprisingly more effective than other normal bullets... The problem is 2 fold, it's barely less muzzle energy than 9mm so next to no gain, you are also losing steam situationally, say for penetration thru walls or taking down larger targets or animals slightly larger than humans... But for self defense within 15 feet on the street 380ACP and even smaller calibers are fine, as an all rounder 9mm is probably a bit better with minimal loss in good area's like recoil, and weight. Not sure why you would go smaller if you are an adult man.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        22LR's main problem is how many of them are duds

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    5.7 is the ultimate pistol round you are all living in the past

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    so are the 9mm Fags saying that an AR-9 is the ultimate firearm or any 9mm carbine for that matter?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think the hell for anyone killed by a 9mm bullet is an eternity of having to make cope posts defending the dogshit caliber

      This has been beaten to death, you cannot advance recoil technology in spec load bullets... That is all, the .40S&W and 357 Sig are newest and more deadly than both the .45ACP and 9mm and shooting data clearly shows this for the .40S&W and 357 Magnum, which the 357Sig is building up to..... Therefore the reason the 9mm has outpaced the .45 ACP and even eclipses the .40 S&W and 357 for actually fucking using is that the 9mm is going to have better accuracy and more bullets, that is what kills people, not MUH STOPPING power, or at least without that, stopping power is moot, bullet technology simply took stopping power to enough parity it was no longer really part of the conversation. Just use your brain next time it's not a coinkydink the 9mm which has the same magnitude of muzzle energy as the least acceptable tried and true 45 ACP and also the best characteristics for everything else ACTUALLY involved in shooting is the king.... FFS in shooting competitions they TAKE points if you use 9mm. ON TARGET HITS MADE KILL PEOPLE, that is why we aren't blasting each other with 12 gauge buckshot or fucking Desert Eagles, this is like the MOST obvious hill to fucking climb, just look around you for 2 seconds, that is why the fucking 40 and 357 sig exist they are literally half measures on the way to 9mm.

      Case in point

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This has been beaten to death, you cannot advance recoil technology in spec load bullets... That is all, the .40S&W and 357 Sig are newest and more deadly than both the .45ACP and 9mm and shooting data clearly shows this for the .40S&W and 357 Magnum, which the 357Sig is building up to..... Therefore the reason the 9mm has outpaced the .45 ACP and even eclipses the .40 S&W and 357 for actually fucking using is that the 9mm is going to have better accuracy and more bullets, that is what kills people, not MUH STOPPING power, or at least without that, stopping power is moot, bullet technology simply took stopping power to enough parity it was no longer really part of the conversation. Just use your brain next time it's not a coinkydink the 9mm which has the same magnitude of muzzle energy as the least acceptable tried and true 45 ACP and also the best characteristics for everything else ACTUALLY involved in shooting is the king.... FFS in shooting competitions they TAKE points if you use 9mm. ON TARGET HITS MADE KILL PEOPLE, that is why we aren't blasting each other with 12 gauge buckshot or fucking Desert Eagles, this is like the MOST obvious hill to fucking climb, just look around you for 2 seconds, that is why the fucking 40 and 357 sig exist they are literally half measures on the way to 9mm.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        a lot of bulletshit to say a .45 can expand more than a 9mm from a guy who died 55 years before current day bullet technology making 60% a laughable number

        https://i.imgur.com/kSyTtu4.jpg

        9mm can expand close to 45 ACP, infact so close that what brand bullet you buy between the two matters as much if not more than calibers.... not to mention the whole fucking thing I typed about ON TARGET SHOTS WITH MULTIPLE QUICK FOLLOWUPS being more useful than MUH HOLE MUH POWER, which it seems you just want me to re-iterate again you fucking moron, remind me if 5 is bigger than 4 but you have 4 4's and 3 5's which number is bigger?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Seeth, limp wrist

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Here's a real source:
        >none of the eight experts were able to say definitively that the larger .45 automatic round caused more damage than the 9mm round; and four of the eight experts found that there was no difference in the wounding effects of either caliber given equal penetration.
        https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/wound-ballistic-workshop-september-15-17-1987-9mm-vs-45-auto-0

        one of those experts: Dr. Martin L. Fackler

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          This article is so contradictory, it says a larger bullet with more mass causes more damage and bleeding and that velocity has nothing to do with it. Then it says four of the people noticed no difference in the wounds but also says all the people saw no difference. So which is it? The other four must have noticed a difference. Plus .45 has loads now that have energy that 9mm could never meet

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Hurr durr Fudd, 9mm is used by navy sealssssssss *limp wristed gay lisp*

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >better accuracy
      Like this actually matters. At all.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The best bullet for the best gun is the one you use and use well. 9mm is popular because it’s easy to use so it gets used a lot. Popular doesn’t mean the best. 9mm vs whatever else is pointless. Shoot the one you like and like the one you use.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    > both rounds can kill you
    > argues over numbers and jello tests
    why are you guys so retarded?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      agreed bullet is bullet just grab whatever box anything else is nerd shit

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sure gramps, the fuddy five AARP is the best round ever.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >defending a round from 1908 instead

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hollow points are the issue. You need to be fast enough to get in the goldilocks range for the projectile and maintain the Goldilocks velocity window for at least 50y. .45 is very slow to begin with and .40 is slow, you can only soften the projectile to a point.
    On the other hand .357 sig/mag starts very fast but sheds more % of speed/energy due to effects of drag being significantly more pronounced at higher speeds. Plus the projectiles are made to expand well at higher velocity closer to muzzle. So you end up with a round that doesn't expand well at a distance.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >357 Sig 2D supremacy
    Too bad Sig is basically no longer selling 357 Sig guns, it was a good run.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/47Awjln.jpg

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    45 bigger number than 9. 45 better.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, because with handgun rounds adequate is adequate and past adequate there is a massive gulf before incremental benefits result in a change in practical performance. 10% more expansion doesnt mean 10% better effect on target.

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wouldn't that also mean that .45 and .40 have also become a lot better
    Yes
    They are known as 45 Super and hot loaded 10mm respectively

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    45 acp beats pretty much any cartridge if you understand its practical purpose. In a handgun its a relatively good option as a manstopper since it has enough mass and velocity to be both predictable but slow enough to prevent ricochet and overpenetration. its perfect in a 1911 since you can pretty much hold a 1911 and fire one handed ez to about 20 yards. in a long gun its even better because with a longer barrel, like 10 inches, 45 reaches around 1000 fps and pretty much mimics ak47 ballistics, but in a sub-gun size package with less signature. like nobody really complained about 45's stopping power in the 1911 or the thompson, but more with the capacity and mag size.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      limp wrist 9mm gays just dont know

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        the second i see a p series in 45 im buying one because being in a comedy huge caliber really fits the comedy huge unwieldy gun

        everyone hates em too and im going to sit on my throne of rugers and never have a single malfunction ever again

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          https://www.gunbroker.com/item/946218313
          Pics or it didn't happen

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >https://www.gunbroker.com/item/946218313

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              https://i.imgur.com/k23lTiy.jpg

              the second i see a p series in 45 im buying one because being in a comedy huge caliber really fits the comedy huge unwieldy gun

              everyone hates em too and im going to sit on my throne of rugers and never have a single malfunction ever again

              those are real purdy
              I remember a guns & ammo exclusive that had a cover and some double page pics of some speciall anniversary ruger P95 with a blued finish and gold inlay

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >sit on my throne of rugers
          Amen

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >45 reaches around 1000 fps and pretty much mimics ak47 ballistics
      no.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >foh faav stronk

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >pretty much mimics ak47 ballistics

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Holy shit, I knew PrepHole was filled with dumbfuck retards, but this is some sort of record.
      You are so fucking retarded, that you make chris chan seem like a genius.
      Have you ever considered suicide?
      You should.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >45 reaches around 1000 fps and pretty much mimics ak47 ballistics
      Go back to your Ukraine threads you fucking brainlet noguns tourist

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't care, give me a .50-110 with a meplat wide enough that the geneva convention might consider it a problem.
    shot placement be damned a straight half inch slug out of your person is going to cause issues. what all those anons aren't considering is the adrenaline and shock, with that you aren't feeling a goddamn thing, in a PrepHole inspired retard moment I bounced a .32acp 71gr fmj off of my femur on my 21st birthday, the same day I bought two pistols, the .357 didn't shoot me. I didn't feel anything until about a day later.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Last week I saw a video of someone hunting boar with a cannon. He blew a six inch hole in one of them through the belly, whole organs were launched clear.
      The pig still made it some hundred feet before collapsing.

      Meanwhile, there was an elephant hunter who routinely dropped elephants with one shot of .275

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >If 9mm has benefitted greatly from advancements in bullet and powder technology over the past 40 years, wouldn't that also mean that .45 and .40 have also become a lot better than it was in the past?
    No.
    9mm went from not good enough to good enough.
    >change

    45 was already good enough and is not still good enough.
    >no change

    40 will never be a real 10mm.
    >no change

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I entered a stein holding contest tonight at the brewery. I finished middle of the pack. Drank the entire stein full of beer. Drank another beer and then aggressively road my 500cc Honda motorcycle home. I like the bike but nobody notices when I'm being aggressive on it and I made it home safe. Now I'm seeing the quality of my posts and I'm going to stop posting.

      Good night. Drink responsibilly or don't drink.

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    anyone talking about "bullet technology" who doesn't reload is really underqualified to speak on the subject.

    we've been using the same old ass powders that we have for the last 40 years. We're still getting the best velocities out of our autoloaders with the same ancient shotgun powders we were always using.

    bullet technology has advanced since I started reloading, and that may have benefited 9mm somewhat more than the other calibers, but every popular bullet manufacturer makes every bullet for every caliber. It takes some experimentation to find what round works best for your caliber / handgun / charge combination but there are so many choices and there's a lot of data out there already.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Were purpose built loads some kind of huge epiphany for you or something?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        at one point in history, yes, they were.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well, I think loading for pistols gets a lot more interesting with micro guns and suppressed. For your typical mid to fullsize wonder 9 it's like whayever though.
          Revolvers and rifles is a whole different story.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I got into 357 mag in a wheelgun just because the cartridge is flexible and there's a lot of shit you can do with it, and it's braindead to reload whatever kind of wacky projectile you want since the standard for overall cartridge length is more of a suggestion than anything. The extra velocity is nice and puts jsp projectiles on the table. I also reload autoloaders but as you say it's not as fun.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No where is that truer than for 38 special, like mine, with my federal punch 120 grain +p JHP. Penetrates like a MFer, expands well, something 38 bullets used to have a problem with. Bullet technology is the way of the future

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Updates .45 to modern technological standards
    >Literally blows up your .45

    They tried this already retard.

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Indeed shot placement is king. But your follow up shots will tell the tail in the morning newspaper. Whats rarely mentioned in these types of threads is the type of recoil each caliber produces and how that can effect the follow up shots. From my experience, 9mm is a quick snap, .40 is a big pop and the .45 is a long push. Now, Im sure each person and pistol handles each round differently but I always felt like the .45 out of any pistol was much easier to follow up with that push like recoil of the previous round.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've always found that the gentle pop of a 32 acp was much easier to follow up with.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        someone using a .32 on another human being is most likely within arms length of their victim

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. I shot my Bros G21, and it shot better than my G34. The push of the 45 makes it so easy to keep on track, I was extremely surprised.

  40. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  41. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    7.5K BRNO mogs everything here. 10mm is an acceptable substitute and 444 Marlin if you're a revolver fag
    Fuck you gays, limp wristed pussy boys

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Smaller hole than 9x25 Dillon at the same speed
      Lol, you kids and your newfangled baby rounds. I carry a 9x25 cuz they don't make to 9x26

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        The IZHMASH Gyurza is chambered in 9x26 Grom.
        You're welcome.

  42. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    .40sw is just a redesigned 10mm lite.
    >wouldn't that mean they've become better
    They are made to specification because the weapons are also made to handle specification. The only thing that is improved are +p rated handguns, and +p+ capability.
    The only actual limitation to a handgun is the general perception/capability of the shooter, hence why 10mm Auto was downpowered to 10mm Lite, which was then made into .40S&W

    In any case velocity -is- an effective replacement for mass, in certain performance zones. I'd rather trust a 1300fps hollow 9mm than a 950fps .45
    and inb4 caliber piss contests, yes .40sw is a total waste of time

  43. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Keeping 45 on target is simply white excellence.

  44. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    remember the hit single "starin down the barrel of a 45"
    it sure as hell wasn't called "starin down the barrel of a 9mm"

  45. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    9mm is not better than .40, it's just that .40 is only 10-15% better at a cost of extra recoil, gun beating itself to death earlier, losing 2 rounds of capacity, ans costing more per round. Police departments switched to be able to qualify more women and save some money, simple as. This is literally the reasoning my department told everyone, "smoother shooting" and cheaper. Nothing about advancements in anything, and yeah obviously that would mean .40 got better too. The one thing it was and will remain better at, is punching through windshields.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The one thing it was and will remain better at, is punching through windshields.
      Sounds like 40 is pretty good at what it does if you're not a pussy

  46. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    > Me, as I shrug off puny 9mm rounds (they dont have enough kinetic energy transfer despite having penetration)

  47. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can't update .45 ACP, every design which attempted, resulted in basically new round, which can not be safely chambered in purely .45 pistols (+P is different story).
    You can not update .40 cause that results more powerful round and defeats whole purpose of that said cartridge.

    In the end 10 mm I only way to go if 9mm is not enough for you (talking about semis here).

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You can update the bullet design for better expansion. Take 38-special. We actually have good loads now that expand and penetrate reliably

  48. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    .45 ACP is the most based round possible, it is the most versatile caliber. You can shoot 230 grain ball for practice, you can use 230 grain hollow points for 1 inch expansion or shoot 185 grain +P for energy that wimpy 9mm cucks can only dream of. And then you also have 45 super which you can hunt with and use against large animals. It literally does eveything a 9mm does, a .40 S&W does and a 10mm can do (the hottest buffalo bore 10mm loads were only 1 ft/lb higher than a 45 super round). And a higher bullet weight than the rest which makes the bullet have better integrity. Plus it won two world wars

  49. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    By the 9mm logic, more rounds and more velocity equal a better gun so why haven't each and every one of you Harry Potter looking assholes adopted the 5.7 which by your logic is the better cartridge.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      too poor

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Don’t waste your breath, 9mm femboys refuse to believe a bigger hole means more damage. I guess the .45 ranger T series that expands to OVER an INCH is hot garbage and will never be able to compete with a round that let the miami dade shooter fight for three whole minutes

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        How come you don't use 50ae ?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Desert Eagles cost more than a thousand dollars.
          I got a used 1911 for less than 600.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Don’t waste your breath, 9mm femboys refuse to believe a bigger hole means more damage. I guess the .45 ranger T series that expands to OVER an INCH is hot garbage and will never be able to compete with a round that let the miami dade shooter fight for three whole minutes

      But the 5.7 is objectively better than both.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      FN

      Also, gains are less apparent than 9mm vs 45.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      How come you don't carry 50gi?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        limp wrists

        45 fags are literal equivalent of 1st year school bullies. All brag until real cartridge arrives.

  50. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    its literally bullshit retards repeat
    9mm luger and 45 ACP were invented around the same time over a century ago
    US standard 9mm is just wrong and completely out of spec from european ammo, 9mm NATO is considered +p ammo when its literally regular 9mm
    Geco 9mm was considered hot
    9BPLE 115gr +p+ was around in the 1980s and its not even the highest pressure 9mm
    things like hirtenberger L7A1, imi smg, and french balle '0' will turn a browning hipower into a glock nade

  51. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    40fag here. Unfortunately not, because nobody except me wants a fully alloy-framed handgun chambered in .40, so manufacturers don’t make them... Therefore, the recoil on it is still tough to manage even for more experienced shooters. The G24 and similar longslide Gloxxx are the closest you’ll get to a gun that shoots the round “properly,” and those guns shoot it GREAT, but have you ever tried concealing that gun? It doesn’t work. I even bought an in waistband holster for mine just to see if it was even possible, irrespective of any level of comfort. It isn’t. It might be one thing to conceal it inside a large jacket, like a suit jacket or a pea coat, or the more likely trenchcoat, but what’s even the point of this?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I would like a all metal full sized 40 cal, but you are right about the recoil, at least somewhat; I say that because every 40 I've shot has been an absolute dream. As for concealment, you can hide it in your jacket during winter I guess

  52. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I would have thought .40 would be more popular as years went by as it can function well as both a subsonic round and a supersonic round and still have higher capacity than .45 while still being cheaper to produce. But the sharp fall in demand has made it both more expensive and less easy to get. Do people not like nice things?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'm a newer shooter, just got into pistols, yet was able to fire a few 40s when I was younger; it's a good round that gets mocked for not being turbo autisticly hot as 10mm. I feel it's fairly pleasant to shoot, good to have one when the ammo market gets frisky, and personally I want a SD40VE since my friend is getting a 40 for his first gun

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Get one used. Seriously man, the gun is not worth its price new. If you can get a used one for between 125 - 200 you’re good.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          That I know; though I do want the box, and it's already cheap so idk if I care too much

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      40 is too snappy for the popular tiny guns of today and it trihgers 10mm, 45acp and 9mm fanboys alike. It's a good round but that said this

      >know a 45 is gonna drop a man flat, 9mm might take a few more shots;
      This is a meme and false. Non-vital hits will be reacted to identically and vital hits will also have the same outcome. We're talking modern hollow points which are all designed to give 12" of penetration. The slightly larger expansion of the .45 may cause slightly more bleeding but by the time that matters the fight is long since over. The only advantage of .45 is slightly less deflection through a hard barrier.
      Rifle rounds in excess of 2,000 fps can over come tissue elasticity and so have meaningful differences in stopping power. For pistols, against people that isn't the case and they're all designed for the same penetration. The small diference in hole size washes out under the influence of other facyors such as target mindset, aggression and shot placement. Militaries go with higher capacity of 9mm but for civilians most defensive shootings take place with well under the capacity of either.

      There just is no difference in affect.

      argument still applies equally to it.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Every 40 I've shot has felt fine, but that could just be my personal recoil tolerance

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          It's pretty snappy out of a Glock 27 without the pinky extender and I wouldn't want to need it out of a p365. It's not that the recoil is painful or anything but rather the small grips can slip in your hand a little. Out of a Glock 19 (23) sized gun it's absolutely fine. I actually prefer the sharper feel of it. 9mm and 45 recoil can feel sluggish in how the slide moves.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Again, it's been a while since I've shot a 40, but one was a glock, a full size I believe. Regardless I've never had a bad experience, though you are right about it being snappier than 9mm

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