I need your big brains /k/. I’d love to hear your opinions, guesses and fanfics about this potential event
How would it look like?
Who”d provide manpower?
And what are the possible outcomes?
I need your big brains?
I need your big brains /k/. I’d love to hear your opinions, guesses and fanfics about this potential event
How would it look like?
Who”d provide manpower?
And what are the possible outcomes?
Would be probably used to secured the Northern borders or support logistics.
this, but everyone else in this thread is fricking moronic
I can't get over how exactly this was said about the m113. Was this intentional? Level with me here.
>How would it look like?
A joke.
>Who”d provide manpower?
Nobody. France should volunteer, but they won't, because anyone with a knowledge of the French operate will know that. The EU is pretty dysfunctional as it is when it comes to collective security, and you think countries sending actual soldiers to a foreign country would work?
>And what are the possible outcomes?
N/A because it won't happen. Macron is just seeking more good boy points for his international image.
>Macron is just seeking more good boy points for his international image
This.
It may also be a further push for his dream of a collective EU military. That gets a lot of pushback, but it's something he's floated before. Clearly important to him. Though why a Frenchman would want to give a bloc dominated by their modern foe a military reporting exclusively to it is beyond me.
>about this potential event
>potential
Ain't happening. Maybe genuine instructors, nothing else
These, the french and the german proved how unreliable and weak they are in terms of leadership during the initial stages of the invasion.
Germany at least put their money where their mouth is, kinda. Fr*nce still hasn't provided shit by comparison (although they were somewhat better in being early on certain systems, in opposition to the MUH ESCALATION crowd).
Why not just march over to Moscow and depose Putin directly? Marcon can do what Nappy failed to.
France doesn't need the NATO or even the EU to capitalize on Russia's crippled state. They just need to strike Russia while all of its military capital is concentrated on Ukraine.
And then what? They get nuked?
If a conventional war to defeat Russia was an option NATO would have done so already. Or are you one of those morons that believes nukes are fake?
>And then what? They get nuked?
France has its own nukes independent of NATO. In fact, they're actually trained to nuke first as a warning strike. Russia isn't the only country capable of nuclear blackmail you know?
>And then what? They get nuked?
Why would Russia waste its nukes defending Putin when Wagner has already tried to depose him? The nuke-holders know if they sling their payload they lose their cushy lifestyle.
>west won't support Ukraine
>west won't give Ukrainians Himars
>West won't give Ukrainians patriots
>West will never give them tanks
>West would never give them F-16
>West would never put boots on the ground and give them long range missiles
You are here.
You should put
>West would never provide actual air support
in somewhere
Air support is already widely provided, just look at the flightmap. Putting western specialists in danger, however, is unlikely as long as there is expendable ukrainians.
>and you think countries sending actual soldiers to a foreign country would work?
Ziggers have been griping about foreign mercenaries since the start of the war. And the Foreign Legion was actually pretty useful in the opening stages of the war.
>And the Foreign Legion was actually pretty useful in the opening stages of the war
The charge of the meth-neck brigade is going to stay with me for a long time.
It's just politics
>I don't want to go to war, lets just send more scalps to Ukraine
Threatening double to get support for half
thippity bippity
No French soldier will set foot in Ukraine (officially) but it’s based that they are sabre-rattling the world’s biggest sabre-rattlers.
>it’s based that they are sabre-rattling the world’s biggest sabre-rattlers
This.
Let Russia know what could happen at the sub-nuclear level if they want to keep waving their wiener around.
Conventional retaliation and escalation are the ways to keep Russia from getting too crazy.
The French? The one where Macron said that Ukraine should give land to Putin so Putin can 'save face'? The one where Macron said that the West should admit that we caused this war by admitting that NATO was encroaching on Russia and Russia was right to react in the way they did/feel threatened?
>b-b-but they denied it and and and
No smoke without fire. Ignoring Macron going on about how he is the guy who will sort it out with Putin and would be a mediator in a peace deal is just Macron trying to be relevant. It has nothing to do with sabre-rattling.
he didn't say that though
That's what happens when people drink Visegrad24's koolaid and fake statements
Nope. Not good at all. All this does is tell Russia they can play their stupid games of annexing regions and get away with it. Push them the frick out.
>BUT MUH NOOKS
If they invade the Baltics it'll be the same threats. If it's going to happen, have it happen on NATO's terms, not Russia's.
It won’t happen. At worst they send non combat forces. There’s no situation where the French engage Russia
>There’s no situation where the French engage Russia
>There’s no situation where the French engage Russia
Not even in Africa?
The French have tried recently, except when they show up they keep finding ventilated Russians and the locals say everything was looking terrible but suddenly this little guy called Pavel showed up. . .
>but suddenly this little guy called Pavel showed up
He's not that little.
He's no giant but he's said to be 6' even so no manlet either, his wife might be his height in pictures but every picture I've seen that shows her feet has her wearing heels so I think she just matches his height with them to aid composition in photographs.
If current French aid is used as an example, it'd be 60 French and 300 Danish troops, all the while Macron and redditors keep saying there's actually a gorillion fr*nch there, you just can't see them.
What if you used reason instead. Minimal French aid represents maximum French capacity to deploy. Even then, if they sent the FFL try keeping other nations out. It would be the challys all over again. Everyone would want a piece.
What an infantile rhetoric. The west is fear mongering..
Any sort of direct conflict with Russia should be out of the question.. Ukraine isnt part of NATO and there's no big reason to think Putin wants to expand more, at least not big enough to start WWIII.
Putin knows he'd be crushed by NATO
>Ukraine isnt part of NATO
We can and will change that.
>and there's no big reason to think Putin wants to expand more
Aah, a vatnik.
Literally everybody knows that Putin wants to expand more. He keeps telling us all the time.
This whole war (I know you're not allowed to call it that) is because of his desire for expansion. Both far beyond what he's achieved but also far beyond what was even attempted in the Kyiv push.
>there's no big reason to think Putin wants to expand more
Get a load of this moron
>not big enough to start WWIII.
1. He already treats this as WW3 (WW4 actually, they deem the cold war as WW3 where they lost and got humiliated).
2. The western pattern of cuckoldry means there won't be "WW3" if he attacks the Baltics and even Poland.
>Putin knows he'd be crushed by NATO
Nah, the war would be blocked in congress because of gender neutral toilets
I just made a similar thread a little bit ago and it got jannied. We can’t have threads about politics unless they’re Canadian, it seems.
Such is the power of Maple.
Look up UN resolution 377. When the security council is deadlocked because of permanent member veto the general assembly can overrule the council for failing their duty.
Ukraine has enough votes in the general assembly to bypass Russian/Chinese vetoes. We could have Korean War 2 tomorrow if we wanted to.
>Ukraine has enough votes in the general assembly to bypass Russian/Chinese vetoes
Getting votes on something that matters over the wishes of permanent members is a different affair to getting votes on something that doesn't matter and will just be vetoed.
It's easier to pass something and have it vetoed then override that veto, China and Russia won't both bribing or threatening countries for a vote that they're just vetoing.
No country backs Russia’s claims. Not even the Chinese. The last thing the swarthy nations want is for European countries, with all their technology and industry to look at the Southern Hemisphere again and say,
>New Hispania is rightful Spanish clay
>Angola, Mozambique and Guinea are rightful Portuguese clay
>1/4 of the planet is rightful British clay
>all these countries are artificial countries with fake ethnicities we created. It’s all ours. We have the documents Tucker Carlstanov.
They would vote in favor to stop the Russian precedent and because it’s no skin off their nose. It would only be white countries fighting to save a white country from annihilation. I very much doubt we would see a true international UN effort like Korea (Brazilian marines, Columbian tanks, Thai and Ethiopian infantrymen, ect).
It would be worth it just to see Americans posters who say the US has no obligations towards Ukraine gnash their teeth as they’re drafted for a land war in Asia.
>The last thing the swarthy nations want is for European countries, with all their technology and industry to look at the Southern Hemisphere again and say,
This implies the swarthy nations are smart enough to think that far ahead (and I say this as a swarthoid myself). Too many of them are butthurt against the West and support Russia purely out of spite, even though Russia would be far far worse for them.
>New Hispania is rightful Spanish clay
Yeah, as if Spain has the ability to actually invade south America, come on now, with what military? The current one is barely enough to defend its own territory, it's in no state to go around starting invasions, and that's before we start talking about the economical repercussions of doing such a thing, Spain's economy isn't doing very well right now.
The only western country which could feasibly launch an invasion on south America would be the US, but there's no scenario where they would do such a thing, better to use the CIA to place a pro-US leader on whichever country they're interested in.
>The last thing the swarthy nations want is for European countries, with all their technology and industry to look at the Southern Hemisphere again and say
Nah, no one is afraid of western colonialism, not that kind anyway.
They know that this "precedent" only counts for the dictator nations and that even then, Ukraine is getting this assistance because Ukraine is useful to the west, not because the invasion is illegal.
They could vote for this and still rely on UN sanctions against their neighbour who invades them later. They can vote against it and not get US aid for the invasion too.
the only realistic way I see any politician sending troops to ukraine is via sending UN Soldiers since they are technically not working for any country and Russia cant nuke the UN out of existence since the UN doesnt own any nukes to justify that kind of escalation
also you cant really bomb/nuke the UN since the UN has no owned land other than some Office buildings and renting out military bases all of which are in other Nations and thereby cant be attacked
but thats all irrelevant since the UN does jackshit anyways
Isn’t sending UN troops require unanimous decision of permanent safety council members i.e Ruskies and Chinks?
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
Correct, it would be vetoed down by russians at least, in the security council. If that would have been an option it we’ve seen them trying.
I wonder if in case of such tensions (security veto just by rus) chinks would let kick ruskies ass for some gains over in far east.
Don’t know if a country in the security council can abstain from voting, but I‘ guess that the chinese would likely veto as well. However leaning towards russia is convenient for them, cheap energy and quite a large export market for all kinds of cheap shit.
You guys are moronic if you think the UN matters.
>You guys are moronic if you think the UN matters.
>t. Kim Sung Il before the landings at Inchon.
as much as I would jack off to this scenario, the UN involvement in Korea was a hilarious debacle resulting from yhr USSR being so butthurt about ROC (Taiwan) getting the PRC’s permanent seat that they refused to participate. As in not vote at all, in a body where just voting can torpedo any motion.
So the West was like “…seriously? OK everyone who isn’t NK, the PRC, or the USSR, lets take back Korea! lmao”
If there is a worse international moron moment, I cannot think of it.
Maybe they won't participate in the meeting :^)
GDI never ever
Already been told to stfu
Europe will never pull its own weight in terms of defence because there is no such thing as Europe
I appreciate the effort though
He has been yes. But it is a possibility that in case of major Russian breakthrough some NATO or „coalition” forces might’ve been send to let’s say Lvov to secure some rump ukrainian state as buffer zone.
I mean that’s just me.
>Here's what NATO will look like once Ukraine joins
thats assuming Ukraine is able to join before Russia starts another low intensity border conflict causing it to be ineligible for membership yet again just like from 2014 to 2022
That "rule" is ignored whenever it's convenient to ignore it. West Germany for example had no problems joining NATO.
>West Germany for example had no problems joining NATO.
West Germany didnt have any border conflicts with East germany
There was a problem with nit regulated boarder between PL and Germany. Iirc it was just the 90s that documents were signed in, but feel free to google this shit
you guys are talking about Border disputes while I am talking about Border conflicts
the difference is that Border Conflicts are fought and Border disputes are dealt with via politics and diplomacy
Until 1972, West and East Germany both claimed to be the sole legitimate government in the entirety of Germany. After 1972 it became slightly complicated as they did not officially see each other as sovereign and independent states but did acknowledge the de facto rule of the territories each held by each other.
BRD and GDR were two proper states, divided by the big three Allies of WW2 (Conference of Jalta etc). There was no border dispute in the legal sense that one side claimed more territory from another.
> Verification not required.
>Here's how I think the war in Ukraine will end:
renounces its claims on Donbas and Crimea
I doubt the ukies would do this without external pressure from the west. And I bet the voices will be heard about „making concessions to a tyrant”.
is accepted to NATO or, if politically unobtainable, to a more specialized defensive pact involving the US, France, and the UK
Not going to happen imho. There’s too much to fix there before they’ll can try to become a part of the alliance. Some form of association? Sure. But not membership
is coerced into ending hostilities with the new international border along the existing front line
So another 10 years of peace and frozen conflict? It is a possibility, but I’m not sure if top monke would go for it. He wants to be the greatest russian who ever lived and getting scraps might be out of the picture. All or nothing.
Similar thing happened post WWI with Lenin
goes home thinking they've won
Definitely not going to happen
>talk about troops on the ground is massaging the public for troops to be station in Ukraine as peacekeepers after the fact.
This is the only thing that makes sense
just send the fricking air force and close the sky, you nato european and usa homosexuals, frick you!
sending aa with trained personnel to defend cities from drones would be something some countries could accept - but still pretty big risk while you can train Ukies to do the same and give them the systems
> Who”d provide manpower?
Poland, of course. It has been the back up since day 1 for the time when ukraine runs out of cannon fodder. Did you expect any western country to send soldiers to actually fight with the slavs? kek.
My tinfoil theory is that all the buying spree that Poland does and the amount of stuff isn’t just for the defense but rather occupation of some parts of russia.
But before the things come in it’s out of the picture
The thing with Poland is that it's scared shitless.
They buy weapons and tanks with EU gibs (mostly German) in order to protect Germany in case vatniks decide to go west. Also Poland has a sweaty finger on the Article 5 button 24/7.
There's still the option of some "peacemaking force" shenanigans on ukraine soil, but Poland will definitely NOT be the initiator.
Lmao please stop sharing your opinions on geopolitics, this shit is so inaccurate it's laughable.
stop posting denis
>Poland is the only NATO member spending above 2.2% GDP on defense
>Other than the UK, only substantial number of soldiers deployed to Iraq after 2004
Poland is not fricking around - they know it's a realistic probability Russia tries something. There is a reason they were the first eastern euro nation to join NATO
nah bullshit
they're just very reasonably and understandably concerned that America is gonna go isolationist again, and Britain+France+Germany will make excuses not to go to war with Russia if it attacks Poland.
I know US is self sufficient and it has now huuge internal issues, nut isn’t going back to isolationism against US interest regardless of who’s in charge?
Iirc even disputes are a factor in nato mebership process
>eu gibs
Nah, it’s mostly borrowed money buying all that steel
>isn’t going back to isolationism against US interest
It always has been but that hasn't stopped it happening before.
You don't get elected by being the guy that does what's in your nation's best long term interest. At least, it's not a reliable strategy.
Ok then so even if you do all the populist shit campaigning isn’t there a chance that you’d be put in your place by alphabet agencies?
I understand that us sees china as their rival and europe is something like a greece was to a rome, but all in all switching priorities isn’t going into isolation
Well that Republican Pajeet openly says he wants to negotiate Taiwan away. I would expect that to become a common talking point among populists if a war over Taiwan actually looked likely because what populists want more than anything is to destabilise the centre.
Populists want to destabilize the center but that is because they see an opening to manipulate the population away from it. Should the majority of the population want war then they would shill for that as well.
You know the US and Britain always have an out:
Send Australia.
>Poland does and the amount of stuff isn’t just for the defense but rather occupation of some parts of russia.
In an ideal world, yes. Belarus signed agreements in early 90s to be folded into the USSR-- still on the books and functionally still the plan as long as Lukashenko's still in. Poland may as well share a border with Moscow wiggers, and if push came to shove full blown Barbarossa is preferable to letting these ghouls dig in, as we're seeing in Ukraine.
Putin and whomever group he represents inside FSB lost the war with Finland & Swedish NATO accession (Murmansk & Kaliningrad are fricked), Kinzhal first strike boogeyman hand being played out and slapped down by Patriots, and Beijing disgusted and alarmed at their conga line frickups cuckholding Xi's Taiwan fever dream forever (sanctions WILL rape all CCP & PLA nest eggs abroad). Apart from saving face there's no good reason he should be alive (or simulated being alive with body doubles taking his place immediately). KGB had its own internal Party structure appointing chiefs and top positions politically and Putin was no different supplanting Yeltsin-- if we can see it, there own people can as well. They're world-historic frickups and now they've got the geostrategic tiger by the tail; Putin et. al. backing him are in a corner of their own AVOIDABLE design ... it's amazing Prigozhin didn't get farther (suspiciously so given the circumstances, to the point of possibly being a work to flush out internal opposition and feign weakness).
Suffice to say: The civilized world had the drive to space miscarried by nearly a century now of these AIDS infested Snow Nigerians with Nukes, and just as Russia cannot exist as an artificial 'imperial' construction sealing the flat heartland well forward, so too the West cannot tolerate any more atavistic steppe incursions from technological cargo cultist barbarians subsisting off the epigenetic human capital of subject peoples.
>suspiciously so given the circumstances
dont overthink it. gayners got a full on road trip since there was nothing inbetween rostov on don and moscow to stop them. What little was were russian air force elements that tried (and failed) as they did. Chechens were scrambled and sent to rostov only to be pretty much immediately detained.
Everything russia has is in Ukraine. That is why pringles shat himself realizing there is nothing stopping from the parading on the red square as even monke fled to petersburg with his private jet. And local cop and governance councils were holding emergency meetings to decide with whom to side with
>source - telegram channel of VatniksLive77, all government secrets for free
unlikely for historical reasons - imagine Germany sending army to western Poland - even if intentions are good it will be godsend for Russian propaganda as vindication of their aggression
only way would be some kind of coalition force to minimize media impact of lets say "Poles occupying Lviv"
Just let Ukraine use western missiles for whatever they want FFS. This war would be over yesterday if the west stopped cucking them
Ukraine's not getting into NATO even if they renounce claims on Crimea and Donbass and sign a comprehensive peace treaty with russia, and everyone in Ukraine understands that. Hence having no real interest in a cope defensive pact that'll have no weight.
If the current trends continue, the front is going to freeze eventually. I've got no faith in further Burger military aid, Euros will pick up the slack but only enough to stop russian meatwaves, not to break the stalemate.
>Ukraine's not getting into NATO even if they renounce claims on Crimea and Donbass and sign a comprehensive peace treaty with russia, and everyone in Ukraine understands that.
This
OTAN should be asking to join Ukraine, the way they've been murdering kacaps.
>How would it look like?
>Who”d provide manpower?
It would look like a coalition of countries willing countries that would provide the manpower.
>And what are the possible outcomes?
Would depend on how they would be used. If they would be stationed somewhere on the border with Belarus and Transnistria it wouldn't escalate much, but would allow Ukraine to free up a large chunk of troops stationed there to the southern and eastern frontines. It also doesn't necessarily have to be ground based combat units. It could be technicians for maintenance, trainers, pilots, SAM operators etc. This wouldn't escalate either. On the hand, sending an army to the frontline would very likely escalate, but still can be acceptable dependently on certain factors that you and I don't really know about.
>It would look like a coalition of countries willing countries that would provide the manpower.
*It would look like a coalition of countries that would be willing to provide the manpower.
>troop
Bro, the majority of NATO members joined NATO because they want the US protection and not for providing troops.
NATO is literally just one giant international American protection racket. I don’t get how most don’t realize this. Kick up to the boss or kick out.
how is It a racket?
members get defence guarantees but what does the us gain?
Boris Johnson and his ten thousand SAS bodyguards are already active in ukraine, all pretending to be ukrainian military forces
As long as russia has nukes theres zero good reason to poke the bear, especially when the bear is already bleeding out.
A bear chewing on your leg should be poked as often as necessary to render him lifeless the more quickly, regardless of whether he is currently mortally wounded or not. All the more so if the bear is holding a hand grenade and fumbling for the pin. POKE AWAY AND TZD FOREVA!!!
French Revolution 2.0 happens when all the frogs get mulched in less than a week because Ukraine is only capable of taking, they’ll see warm bodies and get them slaughtered then b***h they didn’t get more just like all of the other billions in aid they receive. /k/ forgets that Putin is right in that Ukrainians and Russians are the same people.
> k/ forgets that Putin is right in that Ukrainians and Russians are the same people.
If that was true ukies wouldn’t fight ruskies and yet here we are
Stop gobbling russhit cum Black person and just think for a moment
It's east slav mongol rape babies vs east slav mongol rape babies. The only difference is one can't get over being holomodored and uses it as an excuse to get away with literally anything.
>civil wars don’t happen lol
>its a civil war
>thats been going on for 10 years
>over a BORDER decided 30 years ago
yea
Rift between Ukrainians and Russians is greater than the rift between the Democrats and Republicans. Let that sink in for a moment.
UN has mattered a ton in making life hell for Somaliland so far because of a special 4d chess need for Somalian pirates to sink Chink fishing boats.
This seems increasingly likely. It didn't have to be like this, tho.
>It didn't have to be like this
True, Ukraine could have been rolled like France. But
was always the best possible realistic outcome for Ukraine, and now that Russia is advancing again (however slowly) even that is off the table.
Macron trying to get the spotlight on himself and intimidating West Euro public with "muh escalation" to ease pressure off of politicians to support aid to Ukraine. That's all. homosexual c**t.
why would you even bluff when you are head of a nuclear triad nation + member of the security council in UN?
All this big talk makes you look like an utter fool, which macron probably is, see the absolute failure in countering the Niger military coup, failure in the Anti-hamas coalition, failure in talking Monke out of the war, wagners committing warcrimes in Mali...
Walking embarassement makes big talk, guy must be ridiculed by all
Macron is what mommy issues does to a man
>why would you even bluff
A bluff is an unbacked threat. This is so naked, that it's not even a threat. It's there to put the spotlight on Macron and to scare the public off of giving him shit for not backing Ukraine.
lmao
#CloseTheSky #NAFO
Sigh.
Aliens visiting from another star system "cannot be ruled out" — but we’re probably safe with discarding it. Macron is just talking shit. Notice that there’s a lot of talking about helping Ukraine but hardly much action. When action IS taken it’s always much less than requested / needed and only with a lot of arm-twisting, kvetching, etc.
My guess is that this is a bluff meant to make the actual move seem like a measured step. It gives the West an opportunity to escalate without going too far, pushing back whatever BS red line Russia draws in the sand.
As for actual actions the west will take that seem less escalatory in comparison to boots on the ground, I’m thinking they’ll let Ukraine utilize NATO air bases for refueling, rearming, and maybe even launching sorties from for their newly donated F-16s. Maybe they’re MiGs too if they can get some aerial refueling for extended range. Or if we really want to get spicy, a NATO enforced no fly zone is a possibility. Then Russia can pretend to save face by saying “xaxaxa HATO will not of put boot in the ass, and PUCCIA is choosing not fly over Ukraine as good will gesture, plus Su-57 wunderwaffe of work just fine from own border!!!1!”
But seriously, I think actual western soldiers being involved is unlikely… except for little green men with lots of plausible deniability.
>… except for little green men with lots of plausible deniability
I'm certain that some of the foreign sf volunteers never left the payroll of their own country.
>When action IS taken it’s always much less than requested / needed and only with a lot of arm-twisting, kvetching, etc.
This is kind of the point I think. This is an extreme position that he's going to "compromise" on and end up with something must less aggressive.
>Ukrainians and Russians are the same people
Neither group seem to think so any more.
I’m pretty convinced that western sf defended Kiev at the start of the war. You’re telling me ukraine had all those javelins ready and had enough troops trained to use them?
>You’re telling me ukraine had all those javelins ready and had enough troops trained to use them?
They had seven or so years to train and stockpile them.
After 2014, everything that happened was inevitable and predictable.
Zelensky might have been trying to give Russia an off-ramp with all his "oh, they're not *really* going to invade, stop scaremongering" and preventing all his conscriptable population from fleeing but clearly, both the Ukraine government and its armed forces knew what was happening, hence the dispersed airforce, anti-tank teams everywhere, reservists activated all over the place and hostomel being defended by both anti-air and ground teams.
Not that foreign SF weren't in Ukraine of course, I'd be shocked (and very disappointed) if they weren't, but as a general rule they're trainers, not fighters. They teach Ukrainians how to operate javelins and make sure they're ready to use them.
They'd have been overseeing maybe, consulted on strategy perhaps but ultimately, probably not pulling triggers.
i find it funny that this bigtalk comes from the country which has sent shamefully little.
also if european politicians have one braincell left they realize that cheap ukrainian gas is 1000x better than cheap russian gas.
so technically getting east ukraine back is a must just because of the gas.
imagine a europe not dependant on russian energy. u-fricking-topia.
france gave america resources during the revolutionary war
france gave benjamin franklin women and fame
and that's not enough for you...
Amelie was also a nice movie.
Could he send the foreign legion?
Pleaaaase, let him lend the foreing legion to Ukraine as we lent it to Mexico.
Camerone-like battle against Russia would be kino of the highest order.
Maybe he means refugees?
It has everything to do in Europe Ivan. Starting with russians being uppity Black folk yet again and ending on EU still being a fractured warring kingdoms instead of a unified entity.
Frick you
I love how everyone is calling declaring war "aid" now.
its not if country asks for help - herd about British or USians fighting in France during ww1? they did not declare war on france didn't they?
>How would it look like?
EU armies man the border between Russia and Ukraine, with the minor EU countries that want to play ball manning the Ukraine-Belarus border. Ukraine gives the border territory as leased 'NATO' territory meaning if they ever get hit with anything they can just threaten A5.
>Who”d provide manpower?
Any EU country that isn't a b***h, so probably nobody
>And what are the possible outcomes?
Ukraine get to send all their border forces to the front, and with the surge in free manpower are maybe able to get localized superiority and take back some land if Russia isn't willing to fully rip off the mobilization bandaid. EU takes a more aggressive stance too so Russia might shit the bed and realize they'd probably be best packing up and leaving if they're truly not serious about muh nukes.
>Macron
Pidor promised 1kk shells and failed. (But disallowed purchases from non-EU countries). Now he is maneuvering out.
> 1kk shells
wth
people too lazy to write 1000k baka my head
It's an esl thing usually, not not always.
He won't do it but I wish he would
t. frog
BTW just so that we’re all clear on this — there will never ever be a war between Russia and any major NATO country. If France were to actually go into Ukraine the war would simply be over. Putin would immediately declare victory and begin negotiations for a pull-out. There will never be a situation in which Putin or his circle accepts guaranteed military defeat — if it came down to it they would simply end the war.
The reason why no one steps up to do just this is literally cowardice and lack of leadership.
please just send nato air force to ukraine, putin won't be angry
This is literally politics BS talk, no one would send anyone, outside potential peacekeepers after everything would be over.
>Puccia sends Indians, Iranians, Africans, Central Asians, Nepalese, Chinese and North Koreans to die on their behalf and to preserve TMD even for a while
>WTF WE CAN'T SEND YURO SOLDIERS TO UKRAINE
It'll be hilarious if the FFL is rebranded as a new unit in Ukraine's foreign legions
For purely hypothetical spitballing. What if the entire FFL and a quarter of France’s Air Force get involved. How does the conflict change, nooks and geopolitical ramifications out of the question.
Any chance of Russian conventional air superiority null and void. Russian cruise missiles wasted if directed towards the FFL. FFL shocked by drone warfare, and other unconventional forms of warfare (take significant losses) but it's the FFL so no one cares and France quickly adapts. French use their light vehicles properly which minimises materiel loss. FFL boys do not tire out from meat wave attacks and instinctively advance during them. FFL create an FOB wherever they pause nearly instantaneously
Rafale pilots are like Top Gun pilots compared to vatnik ones
They'll become real aces, not fake ones who shoot down $10,000 drones or weather spy balloons
Tbh I would be concerned about traitors within the FFL causing trouble. There are tons of Russians in the FFL because it's a ticket to citizenship.
There’s probably a reason they bent over backwards to get to France and get drafted into ffl instead of freezing their asses in Novoshitstainsk, Ukraine with the mighty puccian army
Leave it to journos and social media shit to only keep half of what was said, striping context, all to change the meaning, even when not much was said in the first place. And morons always fall for it. It's incredible.
Now the best part about this, making some waves, giving glimpses of what may or may not come next, just simply speaking about possibilities even if not that realistic, means Russia is unironically is on its last knees. Basically the American strategy, by providing a strategic and very welcome help in the backstage, and then coming in when the enemy is already laying on the ground with a dildo in its ass to deliver the final blow. Learning fast from History, I see. Frightening, in a way.
>vatBlack person bending itself backwards with fear
You're so beautiful to me.
the chad picture always adds a nice hint of irony too
Lack if imagination put Europe and Ukraine in this position. On that note it's fine.
Otherwise - Article 5 not being a suicide pact - sending A LOT of pogues to 1. streamline logistics thus 2. freeing up man power for combat and 3. ensuring supplies aren't being siphoned off by traitors of 5th columnists would be a very sensible thing to do. It would also provide cover for Western operators of more expensive systems (particularly F-16 servicing, if not volunteer pilots).
When was the last time France and Russia fought? The mid 1800s?
How likely is rhetoric like this just to counter the Republican fearmongering that supplying anything to Ukraine will lead into WW3? Basically Euros saying if you don't supply Ukraine we will start WW3
It's neither, Macron just wants to look strong because he wants to be a leading figure of the EU, he does this shit semi-regularly.
On the other hand at least from the looks of it he’s trying everything that he can do in his position.
Not projecting but asking questions but if I ever had to think about it it’ll go something like this:
US being so huge and having so vast intrest in the entire world (cargo routes, US businesses, etc…) cannot simply return to isolationism because it’ll fold it down few times over. I’m not sure because it’ll actually require proper analysis, but my anecdotal evidence says the impact of such a decision hits the US economy in a way that no crisis has hit it before.
Everyone can argue that US has huge internal market, is self reliant when it comes to energy and its internal problems can be solved within few months of putting an actual effort, but we live in a globalized world that in the first place benefits US.
Given all the world salad above I see the US interest as keeping the status quo (maybe with slightly less engagement on some fronts) as the results are too unpredictable and will lead to an unimaginable level of instability and that’s bad for business
Isolationist goal isn't necessarily complete autarky. Leads to a debate on how much US military enables businesses and if there is any ability to function or exploit a diminished international presence. good luck finding a good answer with little bias.
I don't think you get how things work, every country that isn't under the umbrella of Western hegemony will adop some kind of schizo authoritarian ideology, nationalize your businesses and tell you to frick off while Chinese and Russian companies swoop in.
This.
Without the US imposing capitalism and democracy we will return to authoritarianism very, very fast as this will be the only strategy against influx of foreign influence.
In a broader context it’ll most likely look like brexit on steroids with a pinch of kristallnacht and a touch of military parades.
While I’m all in for such a kino imagery Europe start fricking around in the span of half a century won’t be out of the picture in such a case and then we can safely assume the instability will spill over everywhere else. And as I said - it’s really, really bad for business.
France won't send Leclercs and Rafales much less the older VB series
The Jaguar is perfect for TZD in Ukraine, can also snipe Alligators who sneak up on armored formations
Send general staff, logistics nerds and maintainers and some decent JO's and SNCO's to set up some schools (marksman school, comms school etc etc). Would probably shift the balance of the war by itself.
Macron will just have to copy the tactic French presidents of the mid-20th century used when it came to meddling in African affairs: mercenaries.
Does France have any military success on its own in 20th century?
I was referring to how French soldiers from their colonial wars became mercenaries and that their client was the French government. See Robert Denard.
No former French military personnel in this day and age serving as mercenaries Macron can use to fight in Ukraine? Not even to create something like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Independent_Company_(Rhodesia)
Sending troops to fight for Russia, perhaps, as is French tradition.
>thing X is not mathematically impossible
Wow what a bold statement.
>Define "US Interest"
1. Pretty much the whole of US model works on global trade and having at least a modicum of rules. Thus, letting subhumans chimpout, especially in Europe, throws a wrench into this. An isolationist USA can't sustain its current economy no matter how you try to justify it. It's not an issue of military spending, it's an issue of having enough buyers to buy shit. US _has_ to play world policeman, if it wants its cozy wealthy place in the world.
2. The russian invasion into Ukraine is just yet another step in the long overarching process of russia's weimar syndrome where they got assblasted about losing "muh empire" after 1991. Nobody did anything with other previous "post-soviet conflicts" (pretty much proxy and not so proxy wars by russia) and look where it got everyone? It will continue to get worse if russia doesn't get to lose hard. Everyone's slept through the anschluss and annexation of Czechs, now you're sleeping through the invasion of Poland. Sure, you can ignore it, but russia won't stop and the next thing you'll have to ignore in a few years would be the baltics, where such an approach would cause NATO to cuck out, lose credibility and thus collapse. I.e. stopping russia now is just cheaper and safer then allowing it to drag out into their next wars.
3. Russia's actions and potential success emboldens the other parts of the brown axis, be it DPRK, Iran, Venezuela or China. Why wouldn't they attack their neighbors and annex them, if they see that russia walked away with spoils of war? I.e. you'll get a ton more instability, wars, issues for the whole world and US economy and position in the world.
4. Moreover, this demonstrates to the world that US is not a reliable partner or ally. US signed the Budapest memorandum, they took away Ukraine's nukes only to then look the other way in 2014 and 2015, when Ukraine was initially invaded. Why should Taiwan, Korea, Japan or anyone else feel safe then? Will US actually send someone to fight or they'll block their political process this time for another reason, such as the right to speak the N-word, gender neutral toilets or some other nonsense?
5. Seeing that, it would cause an explosion of nuclear proliferation. This whole war sends a clear signal to the world: don't want to get invaded? you need nukes. Enjoy 20+ new countries developing and fielding nukes. And not all of those countries will keep them safe or won't be trigger happy. Good luck dealing with the fallout (kek) of the situation should nuclear exchanges start happening between other countries.
>US signed the Budapest memorandum
Not legally, no. Until it's ratified by the senate it's meaningless. Sorry Ukraine didn't realize that, but they brought this on themselves.
>Ukraine brought this on themselves
>They brought the war of defense they didn't initiate on themselves
Pic related, you fricking mongrel.
Reading comprehension is a thing anon. You might want to work on yours.
That is literally what you said tho.
>who would provide the manpower
forced deportation of migrant ukrainians
then whoever is willing to sell their country and exit NATO in exchange for shitton of money, which won't be hard to find among the european elite
Mental illness
>France:
Macron may be looking for a way to flex France's muscles on the World stage after their recent setbacks in Africa. He's also probably genuinely concerned about the consequences of allowing Russian territorial gains in Ukraine. He knows they won't stop there.
I could definitely see Macron deploying the French Foreign Legion. I could also potentially see them providing air support. The latter would completely destroy Russia's ability to carry out air operations in Ukraine.
>The rest of Europe
Largely ill-equipped to do anything, in addition to a lack of political will.
>I could definitely see Macron deploying the French Foreign Legion. I could also potentially see them providing air support
So could I, which is why I think it's a good bluff.
The USSR perfected salami tactics without ever attempting them, the strategy is well known to NATO planners, so I think them tasking Macron with some sabre rattling duties is a neat way for them to remind Russia that it would work both ways.
The FFL assigned to the Belarusian border, just to "keep the peace" on the border. No direct contact with Russian troops but now the TDF is freed up for other duties.
Then some Belgian peace keepers hold the Belarusian border and FFL go sit in Kherson and dare Russia to shell them. Some French aircraft are maintaining a CAP around Kherson over Ukrainian controlled territory and making clear the potential response to shelling the FFL.
And just introduce capabilities here and there, one unit at a time, until Russia can't move without provoking far stronger forces than they can respond to.
It's a winning strategy I think and while probably not what will happen, I think it's what NATO is threatening and I think the threat is because NATO is about to do something different and wants Russia to understand the alternative.
>It's a winning strategy I think and while probably not what will happen, I think it's what NATO is threatening and I think the threat is because NATO is about to do something different and wants Russia to understand the alternative.
All this delusional cope. Macron already got shutdown by everyone including fricking Poland, lmaoThere's no some master strategy but just delusions of grandeur by a frog with a granny fetish.
>Macron already got shutdown by everyone
He's supposed to, this isn't what NATO will do, it's just what they're threatening so that Russia doesn't ape out over something lesser.
It's a serious threat and would work but it's not intended to actually happen.
But now Putin has to think: "will my next move piss off the Poles enough that they don't object to NATO troops next time?"
Giving Putin a reason not to piss people off is important, he's operated for decades with little restraint and no fear of consequences.
>It's a serious threat and would work but it's not intended to actually happen.
It's not gonna fricking work, lmao. There's no some master strategy. Why the frick do you think Russia was just allowed to build all the defensives that thwarted the Ukros grand offensive? Why the frick do you think all the delays and constant debates about the supply of F-16s, Taurus/Atamacs etc?
>But now Putin has to think: "will my next move piss off the Poles enough that they don't object to NATO troops next time?"
Yeah, nah. The Poles can't do shit unilaterally. You can't bluff NATO intervention whhile you cuck out on Taurus deliveries at the exact same time. Keep dreaming.KX2X
>Macron may be looking for a way to flex France's muscles on the World stage after their recent setbacks in Africa. He's also probably genuinely concerned about the consequences of allowing Russian territorial gains in Ukraine. He knows they won't stop there.
>I could definitely see Macron deploying the French Foreign Legion.
You re the biggest moron, macron keeps making disasters in external politics, failed to counter the military coup in Niger, failed to set up an anti hamas coalition, failed to keep wagner out of Mali, even the french military quietly hates the guy
If he fails to take out nigs and ragheads, he is weak as frick.
Even the nigs of ECOWAS dont respect macron.
>Muh super sekrit FFL ninjas
moron
The Foreign Legion has the exact same doctrine, organization, equipment and administrative status than the rest of the French Army. It's not a plausible deniability grey ops Wagner-style unit, nor is it a separate branch like the USMC. Legion regiments are distributed between the brigades and divisions juste like the Troupes de Marine, Chasseurs and other traditional corps. One the Legion parachute regiments is part of French SOCOM though.
>This is a mistake that should be rectified as soon as possible. I see no reason why US taxpayers should subsidize the profits of elon musk, bill gates, warren buffet et al.
As much as anyone hates homosexuals like musk and gates (for good reason), they are the tip of the iceberg. It's not they who'd get hit with dismantling of the globalized US economy, it's the regular Joe Schmoe.
>"No NO NO we..we wont send troops..maybe a missile or two if we have a vote or something, slava ukraini!
lmao turns out the french were the based ones all along and everyone else are surrendering monkeys
It's amazing.
The French army already did a tactical withdrawal without even leaving their barracks and suffering no casualties.
Macron is clearly the better Napoleon.
Honest question.
France has TWO fricking divisions. A total combat army of around 50,000 people.
That doesn't even qualify as remotely FUTILE against Russia's half million combat force currently plowing through Ukraine. What could France even achieve!?
One Frog is worth at least 15 orcs
So tell me, what would these two divisions change on the frontlines if they arrived today?
Be very detailed.
Not that anon, but some support from the French Air and Space Force could seriously weaken Russia's air power in Ukraine.
Two divisions of well-armed soldiers.
Fresh, no fatigue.
Airforce engaging russians air to air and air to ground.
Commanders with experience of outside deployement.
Anon, they would not win the war but they would absolutely be a pain to deal with for Russia while allowing some ukrainian troops to breathe.
Maybe they could fix the ennemy on some place while ukrainians push somewhere else.
France has a professional army
Russia has mobiks, rapists and prisoners
>France has a professional army
A total combat component of less than 50,000 men and non-cis individuals.
Fifty thousand.
The entire French "army" couldn't even conduct an offensive like the Ukrainian Zapo offensive last summer.
They're a fricking joke.
But this is all fantasy fiction anyway, because Macron already declared a tactical withdrawal.
One White man is worth a dozen slavs.
>What could France even achieve!?
If it really went at it, wreck Russia within 15 hours of the initial engagement.
how many planes do they have?
an artillery army is just deadweight if you can bomb the ammo trains
>how many planes do they have?
Some 200ish fighters (rafale/mirage), 2 dozen tankers, a half dozen AWACs and a 100ish attack helos (inc ASW helos), 2 dozen ASW patrol aircraft.
It's not nothing.
>plowing through Ukraine
what happened to the Russian forces plowing towards Kiev, Kharkov and Kherson?
They may train Ukrainian military their best skills - how to perform ultrafast surrender, how to fake resistance movement, how to sabotage war preparations, and so on. You wouldnt find more competent specialists anywhere.
Plowing is an interesting verb choice
Kill every Russian in Ukraine in about 24 hours.
If NATO states or the EU get involved directly it’ll be with aircraft. They’ll stack western Ukraine full of air defenses, outfit some of the Soviet era nuclear fortified bases to service western aircraft and house western air crews, and then have western pilots fly sorties against Russian positions. Fairly low manpower requirements when all is said and done, and a lot of the grunt work can be handled by locals. Possible outcome? SEAD whack-an-S400 followed by a really brutal turkey shoot. Then the only question is how many Russians need to die before they pull back.
2022 called, it wants its talking point back. Germany provided, both in delivered and announced terms, more than anyone other than the U.S., stupid.
>nato is shitting pants over nuclear attack
Everyone is you fricking vatBlack person. One nuke basically guarantees fricking nuclear exchange you twat
>this is why iran is getting nukes
Bibi will nuke Tehran before that happens.
we just need to wait for these dumb governments to collapse. All the mullahs sent their kids to American and British Universities who came back with dyed hair jobs and bawd grrrrl power tank tops, just like the Saudis. The Russians live in Western Europe, and the Chinese killed too many of their girls thanks to the one child policy.
No matter how incompetent and malicious our homosexual-obsessed leadership is, it’s staggering how incompetent our foreign adversaries are in comparison.
Napoleon would Field Marshall Mikhail Kutuzov
1)Russia has lost this war
2)Russia is being disarmed
3)The war will not be allowed end until all or nearly all the black sea fleet and russias reserves of trained men, tanks, apcs, helicopters, fighters, artillery, mlrs, anti aircraft has been destroyed
4)No troops will go in unless it is during Russias governmental collapse
5 )The EU or US could kill Putin right now and easily as ell as e.g cutting Russian telecoms and internet or wiping out Russians banking systems, nothing will be done as it might disrupt the flow of Russian weapons to Ukraine for destruction
6)Ukraine will regain Crimea and join the EU and NATO and rebuilt
Nice cope but if that were true the West wouldn't be such fricking homosexuals when it came to dismantling the R*ssian MIC. It is STILL allowed to import critical Western machinery without which it would be impossible for them to ramp up, let alone maintain production of new equipment. Your moronic claim would only make sense if they ensured that R*ssia had to rely entirely on refurbishing old stock. Meanwhile, in reality, they're consistently expanding production of "new" shit.
>It is STILL allowed to import critical Western machinery
No its not, it just manages to do it because we're not ruthlessly prosecuting allied nations where some Russian owned companies exploit loopholes or outright defraud export paperwork.
Lies. They are directly purchasing German CNC machines to this day. They aren't even prohibited from selling them.
A thread:
>https://twitter.com/rhodusinc/status/1733893869421367743
>They are directly purchasing German CNC machines to this day
Too generic, CNC machines are retail devices these days.
Sanctions need to target more specific technology, not things that can be sourced from anywhere.
No, they are not. You do not have a clue what you are talking about. The kind of machinery employed in arms manufacturing is sourced from a very, very small number of suppliers. It is an incredibly obvious choke point that, ~~*for some reason*~~, is not being targeted at all with sanctions.
Well Russian ~~*elite*~~ still has some connections it's why Putin is still acting wienery.
>Lies. They are directly purchasing German CNC machines to this day.
Oh lol no they'll be 15% better at machining stuff.
Assuming Ivan knows G-code.
What's next autoCAD didn't revoke all russian licenses so the West isn't behind Ukraine?
Hello, just a quick note to say the anon that is trying to say it is legal for a German company to sell a CNC machine to Russia is utterly incorrect. Its a serious criminal offense and if he has evidence of it he should let the German authorities know. In fact even selling a sitch, nuts, bolts or asping to Russia is illegal.
Contact details for reporting violations can be found here along with details of the vast range of items banned for sale to Russia
https://finance.ec.europa.eu/eu-and-world/sanctions-restrictive-measures/sanctions-adopted-following-russias-military-aggression-against-ukraine_en
>Hello, just a quick note to say the anon that is trying to say it is legal for a German company to sell a CNC machine to Russia is utterly incorrect. Its a serious criminal offense and if he has evidence of it he should let the German authorities know. In fact even selling a sitch, nuts, bolts or asping to Russia is illegal.
https://finance.ec.europa.eu/eu-and-world/sanctions-restrictive-measures/sanctions-adopted-following-russias-military-aggression-against-ukraine/guidance-documents_en
>https://twitter.com/rhodusinc/status/1733893869421367743
So you are either an idiot promoting your worthless twitter bullshit while making up fantasies about Germany selling CNC machines? You're not even worth killing Russian. You are that stupid and usless
If you repeat all that as often and loud as possible, I'm sure they will eventually happen, lol
>"But I've told you very clearly what France maintains as its position, which is a strategic ambiguity that I stand by."
>Macron talks about troops
>gets shouted down by NATO members
>French position now ambiguous
Sounds like he accomplished his task.
>very clearly stating that you stand by a position of being strategically ambiguous
This is the most democratic thing set down in text since Plato made up some stories about Socrates' trial.
>gets shouted down
Is this shouting with us right now?
>Is this shouting with us right now?
I mean, yeah, it is.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68417223
>Mr Peskov, on behalf of the Kremlin, called Mr Macron's suggestion "a very important new element"
It got heard where it needed to be heard though.
>mean, yeah, it is.
This isn't shouting, it's called discussion ziggoid.
It's pretty emphatic.
I also don't see how you'd take anything I said as supporting Russia, are you accusing me of being a Zigger because you're a vatnik and just accuse people of your crimes out of reflex?
>cannot be ruled out
>EU/NATO ruled it out today
what did Macron mean by this?
Deploy the FFL and turn this thing into a proper African Civil war.
https://nltimes.nl/2024/02/27/dutch-military-chief-options-open-ukraine-even-nato-wont-yet-send-troops
> Dutch military chief: All options open in Ukraine even if NATO won’t yet send troops
>It is “not yet opportune” for the Netherlands to talk about sending soldiers to Ukraine, said General Onno Eichelsheim, the Chief of Defence of the Netherlands. “I think you should keep all options open to see how you can best support Ukraine.”
>French President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday night that sending troops to Ukraine has not been ruled out after a meeting involving 20 countries. The general says that the president wanted to make all options a possible topic of conversation. It is a "far-end" option, according to Eichelsheim.
>The general added that this is the first time it has been declared publicly. "We have not reviewed this before." However, he also added that it is not an issue at this time. The Netherlands has not been asked to supply troops.
>If Western militaries were to go to Ukraine, it would have to be in a coalition, said Eichelsheim. This would either be via NATO or an alliance between 10 to 15 countries. "It would be very odd if one or two countries did this." He emphasized that sending troops is also a political decision.
The Dutch will NEVER forget about MH17. And if I remember right, the next Secretary General of NATO will be Dutch. I'm expecting some more F16 down the line.
My favorite is still this
>The British government said it had no plans for a “large-scale deployment” of troops.
>for a large-scale deployment
>but we didn't define large scale, nor mid-scale, nor small-scale :^)
Based perfidious Albion
>Based perfidious Albion
I can't help but read every statement this way.
> France won't be sending troops to Ukraine
> They'll be sending them directly to Moscow.
Based on the intel leaks from last year, there are around 80 deployed SpecOps (prob SAS and SBS) in Ukraine right now. The UK has already deployed troops there but they're not meant to do anything directly. This is so people don't call on them or say they lied if somebody is captured (regardless of disavowment).
There was a French-Canadian sniper that got in pretty early on and had articles written about him I wonder if he got out alright.
he's a volunteer. those troops i mentioned are not, but are 'advisors'.
>he's a volunteer. those troops i mentioned are not, but are 'advisors'.
I assume there's some overlap, no way that everyone in the foreign legion is there independently. Some are surely SF on payroll in their home armies and just get assigned to different roles than the rest of the foreign legion.
Just checked him (Wali) up, he's fine. He stayed 2 months, apparently realized there wasn't much he could do and came back.
>Based on the intel leaks from last year, there are around 80 deployed SpecOps (prob SAS and SBS) in Ukraine right now.
I wouldn't doubt it for a second. I assume that SF deploy to the foreign legion, get seconded into SBU activities and never actually resign from SAS or whatever.
If USA isn't doing the same thing, I would honestly be shocked. And disappointed.
That would be too based for the bullshit timeline we live in
>remember right, the next Secretary General of NATO will be Dutch
This sleek motherfricker. Don't like how long he's stayed PM but his international attitude and ability to walk away spot free from consistent scandals is just what NATO needs
While it was a major frickup, I do think most people overreacted to the toeslagenaffaire tbf
I gotta respect the hustle tho
For another scandal, turns out we owe Halbe Zijlstra an appology
It was pretty obvious, but lying about it is a bad look for a minister.
gewon uit interesse waarom hebben jullie zoveel schandalen, is dat de VoC mentaliteit?
groetjes van een zuiderbuur
Ik weet niet of ik zou zeggen dat we er bijzonder veel hebben, jullie hebben gewoon nooit lang genoeg een regering om zelf schandalen te krijgen.
>Receipts affaire
>Turning Groningen into an earthquake zone and failing to properly compensate for damages
>Halbe Zijlstra's made up visit to Putin's dacha
>Thank you for your vote for Hugo de Jonge (admittedly not his fault but still in his coalition)
>Pieter Omtzigt position elsewhere
>King Willy flying off to party in Greece while the plebs are stuck in quarantine during COVID, constitutionally the PM is responsible for the actions and statements of the king.
It's no watergate or our ambtenaren laying siege to our own people and blowing them up, but for our standards Rutte was able to dance through quite a few scandals in his governments. Atleast we no longer have any polder-Rasputins trying to establish a Dutch theocracy anymore.
France can't even produce enough shells for a real war he's just running his mouth to "look like a leader"
Good thing wars aren't based purely on artillery. The fact the war is now is because Russia is incompetent and Ukraine has nothing better. Western militaries don't have millions of shells because the majority of their combat prowess isn't dumped into the artillery tree followed up with 10,000 bodies.
Pretty much this. Give Ukraine a working airforce at NATO standards, even half of a working airforce, maybe even 1/4 of one, and nobody would talk about muh artillery shells like it's fricking 1914-18.
Though let's be honest, there might then be a bottleneck in precision missiles. Probably not for dumb bombs though.
>shells
Lol France wouldn't play the artillery game tho, it has an airforce capable of establishing air dominance within a couple of minutes of getting in.
>yuropoors attacking Russia
Great way to guarantee an actual land-lease for a country that isn't made out of moronic nazi larpers.
https://twitter.com/LinkeviciusL/status/1762401270332002630
Honestly, besides the obvious ones like Scholz, all I'm seeing these last few days is sabre-rattling talk against Russia.
Because it is organised. Because the media has been writing doom articles on how Ukraine is fricked. So they made a joint decision to step away from Ukraine 'winning' but about 'defending NATO' in terms of PR speak. Should go watch Lord David Cameron's speech about Ukraine. Which, coincidentally, happened just before all this sudden uptick in 'sabre-rattling'.
>besides the obvious ones like Scholz
Even Scholz has had his moments of talking shit about Russia, it's just Macron's turn so he's taking a back seat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=6cvvXpshFHY
>Saw a russian singing don´t tell mom I am in Bakhmut
As an euro, If I get called to fight I will go unlike my pussies of my grandfathers who dodged the colonial war, hopefully it will end sooner with an euro intervention and i´ll use it as leverage for political changes back home. But this shit is depressing.
Mraz'
tbf a combined baltic force would probably conquer moscow in 48 hours
Europeans don't have the balls for any major military campaign against Russia? You think Czechs, Slovaks or Bulgarians are gonna send 50-100 thousand soldiers to Ukraine? Get real.
lmao, did they find this one in some storage site from the middle ages?
>that french
I see the african volunteers the vatBlack folk got aren't the best at writting french but c'mon this is beyond bad.
also
>dumb unguiged bomb in 2024
lol
>Ukraine declares alliance with vatnikland. They are not at war so this is allowed
>Ukraine invades Moldova (Transnistria). Moldova (Transnistria) is not vatnik owned so it's allowed.
>NATO invokes Article 5 on Ukraine
>NATO invades Ukraine and destroys every vatniks in their territory since vatniks are allies of Ukraine so that makes them valid targets.
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/image/jtPY43oC98s81gnIRl4Bpw/
lol
lmao
>the airmen searches the archive again for unkown technology *BYLAT*
The left can't meme
The west is just incredibly stupid because of the amount of liberals in the government, they should impoe strict migration policies while at the same time offering citizenship after military service. They would never run out of meat
You buttholes have been saying "Russia doesn't have the balls to actually start WW3" for two years now
When the frick did you decide to follow that up with "So we're gonna start it for them"?
Relax, its literally nothingburger. Macron is backed off already saying it was a "misunderstanding" and nobody else actually have any balls for that.
Even basement gays here who are cheering for boots on the ground would immediately squeal and spew countless excuses if you'll ask any of them to volunteer.
Why would we volunteer, you stupid Black person? We have soldiers we pay with OUR tax money all their lives, it's their job to fight in wars. I would support a war just so they can actually earn their keep for a change.
>baaaaaw but I pay*! (enough to pay for maybe one pair of boots and trousers)
Just as described.
>German chancellor in his spergout announces British troops are already in Ukraine operating missile systems
Krauts really are the worst "ally" imaginable.
>it's actually true
lmao what the frick. With such allies, you don't need enemies. The frick is wrong with him. Can't he just shut the frick up?
>some bongs may be killed
So nothing of value would be lost?
Holy shit guys, media scolded mr. Olaf for saying something everyone has already knew for 2 years, what a reveal!
Even more moronic of the media to go "Uh, YEAH, HE'S TOTALLY RIGHT ABOUT THAT" instead of just shutting the frick up themselves.
So all this fluff and back and forth about maybe send troops to Ukraine and the bongs already did for some time? Kek
>Kek
Everyone who donated some high tech equipment probably sent some trainers with it in some capacity. If that is all that is referred to here, no, Macron is clearly speaking of something else.
>Krauts really are the worst "ally" imaginable
I like to think it's just normalising intervention so that the public will be more open to it over time and so that Russia will get increasingly nervous that it might happen.
it's nice of you to give us so much credit but as a kraut i can assure you that scholz just has his head irretrievably far up his own ass.
if only you knew how bad things really are...
this is the first time in my life where i seriously don't know who to vote in the upcoming elections because it's just complete moronation all over the political spectrum
>say something is not considered right now but nothing off the table in the future
>krauts immediately starts whining
Gee
If the french send troops first then the germcucks will never ever be able to live it down.
Lol russian shill is under damage control mode.
Baguette here.
Don't take this seriously, he's just posturing.
The gov probably already sent instructors and glowies alongside the UK, but he will never send troops.
> Recon vic
> Frontal assault
Ouais mais non...
Hey, I too love going on a Moon landing mission with a fighter jet.
What do you mean, the fighter jet is not the tool suited to go to the moon?
Just with one bullshit statement Jupiter made everyone seeth, I love it. I think that his biggest talent making people pissed off.
Why do brown /misc/troon schizos type like this?
Lead based paint and an active delusion that what they believe is simply reality, because they believe it to be so.
>take a bath helmetard or the airmen will smell you!
It was just a political move in sight of the next EU elections, where he opposes a party tied to Russian banks (which is fun because he made everything for that to happen when he was minister of finances).
It was also a smart talk (only if it was followed by France's allies but it was not) to remind Russia that the game could be spiced.
France wiping russians off Ukraine shouldn't lead to a war since France isn't attacking Russia unless threatened and it has no intentions of land-grabbing. Also Ukraine has French security guarantees.
The funniest thing is that Macron at the beginning was the gay who wanted dialogue and diplomacy. A couple of coup in the French sphere in africa and some anti-french propaganda for the dumb Black folk to be mad at later and Macron 180'd his stance. He's basically going to take Russia's place in Armenia and push for more direct intervention.
Shouldn't have fricked with JVPITER, if there is anyone who could still get hard enough to rape Pootler's wife it's him.
for more info that the germano-russo-anglo unholy alliance of ex-stasis and homosexual frickers is trying to bury, check Baguette N on télégramme
nothing will happen it's all posturing
well Macron just said "we can't rule out anything" and the shills and ~~*news*~~ who want to sell fear turned it into what it is now
what's with poojets and fake news? does anyone remember the time they claimed Xi was dead and that there was a coup? their news managed to be more insane than actual vatBlack person propaganda
>well Macron just said "we can't rule out anything" and the shills and ~~*news*~~ who want to sell fear turned it into what it is now
>A couple of coup in the French sphere in africa and some anti-french propaganda for the dumb Black folk to be mad at later and Macron 180'd his stance
Putin has already responded with some bluster and threats.
So it's achieved its purpose and now the escalation is at whether or not NATO puts people in Ukraine. Providing long-range weapons is on the table, accepted and the status quo, the narrative has now moved on to whether or not NATO should shoot Russians or operate weapons in Ukraine.
That's how politics gets done.
He's right about Armenia though.
The armenian lobby in France is very strong and will secure France's position in the region.
As for Ukraine, Macron never delivers but it's a great escalation
Overton window opening, i dont expect anything but i'm still glad nothing is happening because it might make more things happen
I have to admit, as an American I am humbled by the bravery of the French and British. Not only is Macron actually doubling down on NATO commitment, but the Bongs already have troops there now. In a just world, we'd send the spineless fricking cowards in Congress directly to the front lines to help out as well.
Boris is defending Robotnik RIGHT NOW
Both the UK and France have personnel over there for the Stormshadow/SCALP, which is rather obvious when you think about it. Now, where it gets unnerving, is how you have Scholz pussying out from Taurus deliveries because *baaw* *baaaw* we'd have to send people over there or some shit. Yeah well, good news, stop crying, it turns out you don't need to send anyone in Ukraine, some allies are already there. And I'm fairly sure those engineers and operators are not dumb, they're big boys enough to be able to enter GPS coordinates and making sure Ukies are not targeting the Kremlin. Stop with the fricking excuses.
It's not bravery, it's hubris. It's the delusion of past empires who can't even manage their own cities but think they matter on the global stage.
>It's the delusion of past empires who can't even manage their own cities but think they matter on the global stage.
But enough said about Russians already...
>Arm and train volunteers.
>Send them to ukraine
>They automatically get recruited by ukraine
>They technically aren't EU or NATO soldiers because they are part of ukrainian military
>the ~~*walk back*~~
Come again?
>https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-ukraine-western-troops-remarks/
The Baltics want to send troops now in the hopes that it triggers Putin into going YOLO into the Baltics while there are American troops there and kicking off Article 5.
He knows it'll get shot down and never happen so by suggesting it he thinks it will make him look good by making the other leaders look like pussies.
France never intended to do anything. They simply want to look like they would.
Germany has provided 30 times the military aid France has.
Macron is all talk, no action.
There is a point to be made that is NATO really wants Ukraine to win quickly, there's only two options. Either massively increase aid or just straight up intervene. Macron may be bullshiting but it at least starts the discussion on intervention that's been buried since the start of the war. Frankly, NATO needs to figure it out quickly.
>Canada is open to sending a limited number of military personnel to train Ukrainian troops within Ukraine, so long as such an operation took place far from the front lines of the war with Russia in a clear, noncombat role, Defence Minister Bill Blair says.
>The Netherlands, Estonia, and Lithuania are not ruling out the possibility of sending their military personnel to Ukraine. Several Western publications reported this, citing high-ranking officials.
>The representatives of these countries emphasize that they are primarily talking about support personnel who will conduct training, assist in setting up processes, and engage in other tasks without being involved in combat operations.
>Finland: Ukraine is free to bomb Russia with our weapons
>Helsinki also urged Germany to “seriously consider” sending long-range Taurus cruise missiles to help Kyiv.
I like how muh redlines are stomped over and over. TZD.
Everyone will see everything when Trump takes power.
Will eggs maybe be measured?
It's happening whether Klaus wants it or not.
>france and britain enacts crimean war 2.0
It wont happen but it would be so fricking funny
Tards & Glowies are using the russian-ukrainian fakewar to distract from the UFO situation
UFO are on Ukies side anyway. Why do you think there's a killstreak of Sukhoishit
Well it seems that Canada too is ready to put some boots in the ground, under the right conditions, it is happening boys?
>Well it seems that Canada too is ready to put some boots in the ground, under the right conditions, it is happening boys?
No but the muttering about it will pave the way for lesser escalation like more cruise missiles.
Isn't it obvious that it's going to mostly maintenance guys? It may not be combat but it move the needle closer and closer.