I don't understand why people shit on the M1a so much
>Actually pretty damn light by battle rifle standards
>Also super accurate by battle rifle standards and can be accurized to be way more accurate than other battle rifles and even be made into a great DMR
>Also light more light recoiling than a lot of battle rifles
>Readily available magazines at fairly reasonable prices
>Plenty of aftermarket
I just don't really understand why people always say they're obsolete and you should definitely just get an AR10 instead. What makes an AR10 THAT much better?
yeah
Honestly, i gotta agree with these anons.
ya done good , OP.
ya done good kid.
yeah
>even more light
>no you're completely wrong and the AR-10s are free floating with the right handguard
>maybe?
>no
>no
just get an AR-10
>wieners
>dicks
>boners
>penis
>i suck them all
We know.
being a contrarian will make you feel super cool and special only for a little while
>wieners wieners wieners sluuuuuuuuuurp
why do you like outdated trash anon? Is it because you're poor?
>posting old shit
>why don't you like dicks anon? I love them. Do you not love semen?
>scar
>not outdated
How is the scar outdated?
You were the one being contrarian, moron
>LTT slide cut
>LTT threaded barrel
>on a Beretta 92X or A1
Problem solved, and it's a better gun than a Glock.
gayest green text ive ever read. who needs all that shit on a handgun?
pretty much what said you can et that out of an ar-10 pretty easily and not for a whole lot but people who shit fling about the g3 and fal being better because blah blah are stupid and is just muh soul posting but they refuse to admit that
>What makes an AR10 THAT much better?
Well, for one, the price tag. Springfield is smoking crack with their M1A prices.
>now is the part where you call me a poorgay
Poorgays be poorgaygin
>Poorgays be poorgaygin
I just bought a BAR and I'll never bother with an M1gay
This kind of attitude will only hold you back. You may think you've "arrived", but you are only on one stepping stone on a long path of many. Remain open and take the long view or be doomed.
Getting a decent AR10 will cost you as much or more, tho.
I'd bet money that you could build (read: buy a lower and upper) that would undercut Sneedfield in price and match, if not surpass, it in accuracy. Not to mention you get AR ergos, better magazine selection and availability, and an adjustable stock unlike OP's pic.
You could build an Aero M5 for cheaper these days.
I don't trust Aero.
okay
>not being able to mount scopes or lights suck and you can induce a jam if you hold it wrong and it weighs a frick ton while still being inaccurate.
Actually all this is wrong, too. You really don't shoot.
Okay
Aero just passed like DOD reliability standards or some shit.
I didn't pay too much attention but there's was a thread about it a day or two ago.
All the KAC gays where seething.
>All the KAC gays where seething.
No they weren't. The whole thread turned into morons arguing about vaccines.
ie, KAK gays
KAK and KAC are two different companies, kek.
I'm waiting for another "Ice Test" that actually properly degreases/lubes/etc. the AR and shows they work just fine so AKgays can finally be put to bed once and for all.
NIJ reliability standards was the test. 10,040 rounds through various conditions. Aero bros be winning
No, an Aero will outperform any springfield M1a, and the Aero is ~$1200
I’ve seen M1As going for $1600 recently. That’s about how much an Aero M5 will cost you on sale. It’s not a bad price for the rifle considering M1 Carbines go for like $1200 now
what does it do better than an ar-10 except be heavier which is probably why it's supposed to shoot relatively light too?
I think of it like a mini 14 perfectly serviceable gun but pretty worse all around compared to an ar
>except be heavier
It's almost the exact same weight as a Daniel Defense DD5.
You can build lighter weight AR10s, but they won't be as reliable or durable.
weighs as much as a g3 clone, even with the synthetic stock. still light if you aren't a massive homosexual. g3 mags are by far the cheapest battle rifle mags to date. show me where you can get m14 mags for less than $10 each. other than those 2 points, the m14 might be alright
yeah mudda
Who gives a frick what people say. Its a cool fricking gun. Every time I see one at the range It turns heads. Who gives a shit
If we are not arguing on arbitrary price points and just focus on the merits of each system in the current environment, the AR10 is objectively better in the following ways. Easier for noobs to accurize due to the free floated barrel, easier to obtain compatible furniture and things to attach to said furniture, and has similar manual of arms to what most people are use to today. But if you already know how to modify a M14 pattern rifle and you know it's quarks, then there is not going to be a whole lot of difference between the two in terms of portability or ability to put holes inside of a one inch square at 100 yrds. There are merits to be made in how light some top of the line AR10 builds can get, but you can do the same lightening to a M14 rifle. It's just not as common ore easy to do as buy x part and bolt it to your rifle. Generally, people hate on the M1A because poorgay, or they can't shoot well with the way it's setup for them, or they are just doing it wrong.
New m1a from Springfield in my country cost like 3k USD. You can get gucci AR for such a price.
Really don't care for that Tacticool Black look though. Give me nice wooden furniture any day of the week.
Much like the Romans killing XChrist, they know notcwhat they do. It is the highest evolution, all esle is a step down from the apex of the pyramid.
I've been wanting to buy a socom and sticker bomb the stock.
Use it as a truck gun.
LC 130gr barrier blind.
Frick your car cover.
I just picked up a Socom 16 after debating the Scout or Loaded model. I never intended it to be used as something where I'm shooting 600 yards although I've hut out with 400yds with the Socom. So far so good. Only about 200 rounds of a mix of Aguila 150gr .308 and PPU 147gr .308
Want to try some wolf and other steel to see how it hold up. Sportmans Guide has them on sale right now for 1699 with free shipping. Like the sights. Larger than an M1A standard but like the tritium FSB and larger aperture. Don't plan on adding a sight since the irons are fine.
Also, frick thr price tags on 20 round box mags. Bought 4 with my ammo at $50 a piece.
pretty damn light by battle rifle standard
Worse than the AR-10
>>Also super accurate by battle rifle standards and can be accurized to be way more accurate than other battle rifles and even be made into a great DMR
Wrong
>>Also light more light recoiling than a lot of battle rifles
Wrong
available magazines at fairly reasonable prices
Worse than the AR-10
of aftermarket
Worse than the AR-10
The AR10 aftermarket is a nightmare clusterfrick with 4-5 different specs and most manufacturers including completely proprietary parts on top of whatever base spec they go with.
You’re not wrong. What spec would y’all’s start with then for a DI build?
I enjoyed reading this
Eh, it's actually way better than it was. Used to be Armalite spec and DPMS spec, easy to differentiate by the slant or round radius cut in receiver. For the most part, the DPMS pattern has caught on. KAC uses a weird hybrid that has a slant cut reciever (KAC always uses proprietary shit), LMT does too since they got started in guns making parts for KAC.
Most shit these days is DPMS pattern, with a few brands doing their own thing but you can say the same about AR-15s now, with all the various piston guns and unique shit like Sig is putting out.
On paper it's cool, IRL it's not.
Looks sexy as frick, but the sights suck, not being able to mount scopes or lights suck and you can induce a jam if you hold it wrong and it weighs a frick ton while still being inaccurate.
>the sights suc
Best irons on any service rifle period. You don't shoot.
They're good target shooting sights, but really not good combat sights.
They keep falling off after 500 rounds. We are talking about the mini-14 right?
I'm not.
> Best irons on any service rifle period. You don't shoot.
wrong on all counts
Not that anon, but much rather take the M14 sights over the Hk drum sights. Not even a question.
They're marginally better for competition and range use than G3 sights - esp since the G3 manual of arms called for holdover past 400m, but are worse than G3 sights for combat and in particular close combat. The only thing they do well is be better than the early AR10 and most (not all) FAL sights
>>the sights suck
Confirmed noguns doesn't shoot
>sights suck
Black person what? You must fricking SUCK at shooting. They’re flat out amazing
the sights are literally the best part of the M14 platform
For target shooting. They're not great battle sights.
Why?
They prioritize precision over speed of target acquisition.
Because those sights have a specifically sized rear aperture and front sight to cover a 10 MOA circle, with was the old precision shooting targets.
You still see the 100yard targets usually have a 10" black section, you sight with your front post just filling that.
They are target sights, not combat sights
>but the sights suck,
Anyone who says this is a frickin moron. The sight picture of every American service rifle has been largely the same since the M1 Garand.
Because optic mounts for M1A are over engineered heavy shit.
And because oh shit I fired a couple heavy weight 308 hunting rounds and bent my Springfield cast op rod.
>Because optic mounts for M1A are over engineered heavy shit.
this
frick mounting optics in an m1a, it's just so damn jank
After I build my ar-10 I am going to rip that sadlak mount off of my m1a and go back to irons
>light by battle rifle standards
Not when AR-10s exist
>super accurate
It's middle of the road by battle rifle standards, if not slightly worse.
>lighter recoiling
Where have you heard that? It's a decent bit more violent than even a G3 when shot side-by-side.
>magazines
SR-25 mags completely nullify this argument
>aftermarket
Not any more than the FAL or G3 market, and CERTAINLY not more than the AR-10 market.
Short answer, the AR-10 kicks its dick in and euro battle rifles are simply cooler.
Literally every point you make is incorrect. And I love how you avoid talking about reliability.
>Actually pretty damn light by battle rifle standards
By what battle rifle standards? Its as heavy as a FAL and marginally heavier than a PTR. A light AR10 or 17S leave it in the dust.
>Also super accurate by battle rifle standards and can be accurized to be way more accurate than other battle rifles and even be made into a great DMR
Literally not. Again, what battle rifles are you judging against? Just the FAL, in exclusion of all others? The only M1As that are particularly accurate are in a chassis like the JAE or Sage, and those are boat anchors.
>Also light more light recoiling than a lot of battle rifles
Not that I've noticed. The only .308 I ever found notably harsh was a DPMS hunter, and that was on account of it being 7 lbs. Everything else feels about the same.
>Readily available magazines at fairly reasonable prices
Sure, they aren't too bad. 25-40, maybe 20 bucks on sale.
>Plenty of aftermarket
More than a FAL, not plenty relative to anything else.
Theres nothing wrong with liking M1As, but don't delude yourself into thinking it has qualities it really doesn't just because you like how it looks or appreciate its history. AR10s are super light, super modular (though certainly less than an AR15 with all the varying receiver specs), you would have to hunt to find an OTS AR10 that wasn't free floated and less than 3 MOA, have a vast array of sub-20 dollar mags and has one of the largest aftermarkets of any long gun. The M1A just cant compete.
>man who doesn't own an m1a but likes them tries to talk about why they're good.
poorgay seethe is the answer you're looking for
>that much better
The ergonomics.
You can get an M1A down to 8lbs with a blackfeather chassis. And the M1A is great for ban states. It's a great rifle in its own right. But things like the SCAR-17, the various AR10s, even stuff like the XCR-M and MDRX are just better guns. They're more feature rich, have better optics and accessory mounting solutions and are more tolerant of dirty environments. The open-to-the-elements bolt carrier of the M1A make them finicky in freezing, sandy, and muddy environments.
But variety is the spice of life, and an M1A will serve you very well indeed.
There's also this to consider:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqNbDfOJX6c&t=44m30s
>You can get an M1A down to 8lbs with a blackfeather chassis
For the record, the "ultralight" configuration of the Blackfeather chassis shown on the website is 2.8 lbs, which is 0.15 lbs HEAVIER than a walnut stock with hardware. And the Blackfeather stock is excessively front heavy like an EBR because it's aluminum and all the weight is in the front and any lightweight AR stock and grip isn't going to add enough weight to balance it.
t. Blackfeather owner
I wonder if a Delta 14 stock would be a better, lighter option if the goal was just better ergonomics, but I haven't seen anyone weigh a fully configured setup.
Shut up frick you you are ignorant and wrong and all the aftermarket in the world wasnt enough to turn your piece of shit into a good reliable rifle. Your piece of cobbled together shit was pushed through by a corrupt department and led directly to their disbanding so i guess it did something good. Also your aftermarket has done almost nothing for properly mounting a decent optic so uhhhh that might be a big deal and im not gonna humor you anymore. ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN BUT TWO OR MORE QUESTIONS GO TO YOUTUBE AND WATCH SMALL ARMS SOLUTIONS VIDEO ON THE M14
Actual gunsmith here. The AR-10 is good because it was purpose built for all the problems the military had with .308, whilst the M14 was just a bad upgrade to the Garand.
The massive bolt-carrier group, buffer, and bedspring are all meant to mitigate the recoil of .308 without relying on weight.
The M14 only has its weight to rely on.
The AR10 uses direct impingement because when you hand a brand new full-auto lightweight weapon to Joe Schmuckitelly, they will burn through the barrel immediately; so the gas tube melts first and saves the military a shitload of money.
Direct impingement also has some accuracy benefits too.
Contrast this with the M14, which uses the downsides of both short-stroke piston and long-stroke piston with neither benefits. You have an individual piston head that you need to do more disassembly to service, and it has an operating rod to meet it that reciprocates with the bolt, making the recoil impulse feel imbalanced and throwing off the barrel's natural harmonics.
It's asinine trying to compare a purpose-built rifle to a hodge-podge of ideas slapped together by a board of directors.
The AR10 is an actually engineered tool. The M14 is a bureaucrat's deformed test-tube baby.
End of debate.
>The AR-10 is good because it was purpose built for all the problems the military had with .308
My Black person the AR-10 was designed before the military adopted .308. They both competed in the trials to adopt a .308 rifle.
Yeah. Committee guns never turn out well. Just off the top of my head. The Gew.1888, M14, SA80, INSAS, I'm sure there are plenty of others.
all the points you listed, the AR10 does significantly better.
I have the SOCOM Tanker. It has made me fall in love with .308. It’s extremely fun to shoot and easy to hit steel at 200 yards offhand. However I am currently looking for a more modern battle rifle to make my go-to gun. The M1A is not without its issues, especially the SOCOM variants.
First, the gun is gassy as frick. It shoots fireballs In a firefight you’d be spotted very quickly.
Second, the gun has one of the worst rock in mags i’ve ever used. It’s just very sensitive compared to FALs or AKs and you really need to hit the sweet spot. It gets easier with practice but it makes for a slow reload. Stripper Clips can be faster in 10rd mags.
Third, it is terrible to take apart. Just a pain in the ass to disassemble and reassemble. Would not want to field strip.
Fourth, it severely lacks options optics. The scout version makes up for this with a pic rail, but it’s not universal for things like LPVOs. The iron sights are honestly some of the best ever designed tho…
Fifth, the reliability of this gun is a myth. They simply jam and require more lube than boomerlore would have you think. It’s not unreliable but it definitely isn’t AK levels of durable by a mile, which is disappointing because you’d think that gassy system would help cycling.
>Second, the gun has one of the worst rock in mags i’ve ever used
Even without practice I've never had more trouble with rocking in M14 mags than my AK, and my Bula has a tight as frick lock up with mags, zero wobble at all.
My Bula is harder to rock mags into than my AK or FAL. It's a nonissue and still easy to do after a couple minutes of practice, but it is a bit harder.
try speed loading it is noticeably slower. It is a bit of a nonissue but if you’re getting a SOCOM you’re sacrificing accuracy for handling and the mag is something that I could see getting me killed in a CQB situation. Also considering that most 308 mags are 20 round, you will be reloading more
>the mag is something that I could see getting me killed in a CQB situation.
You know in most situations, any gun is going to get the job done if you know what you’re doing. Literally every little bit of bickering that goes on in this forum is splitting hairs over ergonomics that will never become relevant in our lives. I would never use my M1A in a SHTF scenario and i’m posting in this thread the reasons why I wouldn’t. You can mock me for hypotheticals but this entire forum is hypotheticals.
it has a slight shelf on the front end of the mag well that can your mag can hit before it’s actual locking position. The FAL and AK don’t have this issue from my handling experience. Yeah it’s minimal and training makes it so you avoid it 98% of the time but if you’re actually talking about a combat weapon it’s a fault
>it has a slight shelf on the front end of the mag well that can your mag can hit before it’s actual locking position.
wow that sentence got butchered by autocorrect
it has a slight shelf on the front end of the mag well that your mag can hit before it’s actual locking position.
Slower than a straight in mag, but really not versus other rock and locks.
>Gassy/Fireballs
If you wanna sink some money into the gun, you could try getting a flash hider and adjustable gas, mitigate these two.
>Rock-in Mags
Meh, I haven't had an issue before now and I don't know of any magwell funnels or such.
>Assembly
I know it's not as stupid-simple as an AK or an AR, but I've never found it specifically "difficult" or anything. Pop the trigger guard, separate the receiver from the stock... It's not that hard imo.
>Optics
I don't particularly think the over-receiver mounts are that bad or preclude you from much of the common stuff most use (you mention LPVO), and, if you REALLY wanna get muh railz, there's plenty of chassis or just that VLTOR rail think IIRC.
>Reliability
I can't say I've ever run mine that hard, so meh.
All in all, I'm a M14 apologist, thanks for reading.
In regards to the gassyness, you’re pretty much stuck with it with the SOCOM variants. Fixed muzzle device. Though i’ve heard that the SOCOM is over gassed compared to the standard model.
For disassembly it’s all about the oprod and bolt that make it finicky. No big deal on a table but like I said not something i’d want to do in the field.
I still love the gun though, it’s a beast. I’ve even considered getting a full sized one for my main gun, but even the FAL just seems like a major upgrade over it so it’s hard to justify. Idk I may jump on the MKE G3 when they come out if the price is right. If not i’ll build an aero M5 and just get some more traditionalist looking parts for it
Are you sure? This'd be news to me.
There are replaceable gas plugs, even adjustable ones like the Schuster, Delta P and Smith Enterprises make muzzle thread adapters, you can get stronger springs from places like Wolff... etc. I think the M1A aftermarket is a little more vast than y'all might think.
But I do get your, and the others' points more or less, I just happen to be an M1A apologist proto/neu-fudd, and am trying to figure out how to bring a pet project I've had on my mind (.375 Raptor "Tanker") to life lately, when I could just as easily just buy an AR10 barrel and call it a day.
I do also plan on getting an OSW or similar at some point too, mostly for the ha-ha, big booms and whatnot. (I would try and put together a psuedo-HK51 for example, but I hear it's a MAJOR PITA and such.)
>12lbs stock isn't that heavy if you really think about it
>4 MOA is akchtually pretty accurate if you think about it, and if you spend $4000 to accurize it, those 2 MOA groups are pretty good if you think about it
>akchtually the smallest aftermarket of the common battle rifles is pretty good if you think about it
The tl;dr reason is that they should in theory be a strictly better take on M1 Garand, but they simply are not. They are in fact worse in just about every way other than having detachable mags.
>>Also super accurate by battle rifle standards and can be accurized to be way more accurate than other battle rifles and even be made into a great DMR
*Laughs in g3*
Hey fren, you can like the M1A if you want. It doesn't bother me. I even kind of like it too, for the aesthetic and the history. I don't really like it enough to pay like $2k for a novelty gun, but that's okay. You're allowed to like things.
What would be the best dedicated can for a SOCOM 16 with the threaded gasblock on it
Delta P Brevis II, if you can get one IMO.
Didnt even know that one existed and 5.5 inches seems like it would keep the compactness intact, thanks
Because of the diameter and 3D-Printed internals, it's supposed to be pretty nice sounding too. Plus, you can get a Titanium one too that's a little lighter apparently, if you're into that kind of thing.
I have a SAM7 Ak I want to put an adjustable block on too so if I get a decent thread adapter I bet it would work for that too?
I'd check concentricity of course, but I don't see why not, though, I'm partial to the KeyMo brake on my Meridian, for putting a Sandman on, so I don't have experience with it on AK's.
To be honest, I don't have experience with them in general, since they seem perpetually unobtanium for some reason. Shoot them an email/call, if you're really interested, I guess?
I can say as a M1 owner that the action is way more prone to getting dirt and debris inside the action than AR. If you are planning to use the rifle outside of a range day that could very well be the deciding factor. If it's just a range toy, well, who the frick cares? Go have fun.
As someone who owns all the major battle rifles, and a scar 17 not pictured, the m1a is objectively the worst of them all.
The fal is the most pleasant to shoot and the most accurate. The AR-10 is the most capable just because you can easily put shit on it. The scar has stupid proprietary mags and breaks optics. The G3 is just fun and the internet must be full of babies because it doesn't recoil horribly like everyone says.
>>fal more accurate than an ar-10...
please leave.
no
The groups are the groups. My sample size is only one fal and one ar10 but I didn't lie. Also
isn't me.
cause SA wants premium prices for chinkshit quality guns, at least us leafs used to be able to get a norc clone for $399 and swap out whatever parts you felt like
Would you buy a sa m1a if you could have 20 round mags?
All-wood M14's are objectively superior, polymergays can
Forgot pic
Nice.
>less capable than an AR10
>more finicky than a G3/CETME
>doesn't give erections like a FAL
>military versions had a very poor reputation that bled over to the commercial ones
>M1A
get a BULA M14.
>Bula
Do some reading beforehand. They've been having some pretty bad QC issues of late. It seems more related to assembly. I'm still eyeing their XM21 receiver though.
since there are so many experts in here, how do I actually build a top tier AR10? what are the best parts and what do i need?
>experts
It's just another fight thread, op knew what he was doing. The M1a/M14 is like the Dallas Cowboys of rifles. Just the best, there is that's why people hate them.
You don't have to justify your purchases to me.
Because AR gays are a cult