So let's say that some weird minor quirk in the laws of physics causes all types of smokeless powder and other modern explosives to instantly degrade, and as a result it's impossible to make now.
Obviously America would be in the best position to rearm with black powder, based on the sheer number of old BP firearms and modern replicas here. Who would be the next best equipped? Switzerland? I imagine they still have a lot of Vetterlis.
'Sup, Black person Man?
>mentally disabled
Why wouldn't I just use my current firearms?
The autoloaders just need light springs.
For one: the twist rate compared with bullet velocity is gonna result in very low accuracy. 5.56 with BP is not gonna hit 3,000fps, probably not even 2,000.
Second: The majority of product in a BP explosion is solid particulate, so that very narrow bore and gas tube are gonna foul up rapidly. That's one of the reasons why BP firearms tended to have such big bores. You can't make an Armalite run on BP effectively, unless you're using a rimless .45-70 and a delayed blowback, and even then a lot of fouling will wind up in the action.
>That's one of the reasons why BP firearms tended to have such big bores.
.50 Beowulf bros we are so back.
With a light bullet and best quality compressed powder 45-120 can hit 2kfps, so you'd probably still see mach 2 rifles popularized in the .20-.38 caliber range.
this is the best answer
with black powder any 30 caliber bullet is the equivalent of a .22 lr
black powder revolvers were almost useless unless they were chambered in atleast .44 cal
Bait.
>based on the sheer number of old BP firearms and modern replicas here
Most of the old guns don't work anymore. Replicas might be fine, but why limit yourself to replicas of old guns when BP works fine in any manual action gun? A Savage Axis shoots BP even better than a Vetterli.
Most autoloaders will quickly jam up from the fouling.
True, but plenty of work is needed to retool for milspec. Gonna need larger mags, mag release, larger caliber, etc.
>Gonna need larger mags, mag release,
You are? They why would you say the US would be doing well because of old guns that lack those features?
In terms of emergency rearming as a stopgap, break out the Vetterlis, Winchesters, etc. Once you're rearmed enough for basic defense needs you worry about designing the perfect BP rifle.
>Once you're rearmed enough for basic defense needs you worry about designing the perfect BP rifle.
Right, I get how that's desireable. But now we're moving beyond what OP asks. I want to know why
is saying that modern manual-action guns are less than ideal when OP was proposing the use of literal antiques and replicas thereof. Sure, a gun with a detachable mag and modern optics is preferable but that's not what OP asked.
As OP, emergency rearming was my intent, my apologies for not making it clear. Basically, get as many rifles and revolvers into the hands of troops until we can rearm with new stuff.
Depending on the firearm, you don't even need new springs.
>picrel 1911 chugging along on bp
>went through box of ammo without problems
>tfw bp fouling cleans up easier than unique
Gas operation is obviously not going to be so easy, but BP is not a deal breaker for recoil and blowback operation. On a related note, all BP is not created equally. We tolerate Goex in the US because it's cheap and it's available, but it's also garbage for firearms useage. Compare Goex with Swiss to see the difference in both power and fouling that a little care and quality can make.
It'll be hi-points and Auto 5s lol. I've seen both run surprisingly well on BP. IIRC Glock too.
When I'm home I'll link videos of the guns above. You'd be surprised.
I can't find that fricking Glock video, must've gotten deleted or I was mixing it up with the Hi-Point.
>BP Glock (?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwWo-q-4NbA
>Hickok apparently used BP in a Glock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzQ4uKvE7c
>Apparently AKs aren't too viable with BP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LopUNq6lF2U
>Auto 5s and similar long recoil can do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEP39EovJ0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6xiI303nfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n23jqONkbo
>Hi-Point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuE0jkq4_1o
What made a question that stupid (because it's useless) work asking?
newbie detected. Weird hypotheticals like this have been asked on here for many years.
nitrocellulose just started working some day and it may very well stop working
1. come back to reality my friend it wont happen
2. if by some fluke it does happen, i wouldnt waste my time and simply use hand weapons like swords, knives, spears, blow guns, crossbows, etc. i would just larp as a knight
Have fun when Bubba's family heirloom 38-55 punches through your armor.
Based medieval larpers would have an opportunistic window right as the degradation happened to siege the castle so to speak and establish dominance before the black powder comes online which they would then control.
just make an Isekai fantasy, that would far more realistic that automagically changing laws of physics and not dying in the process...........................
Jesus you fricking tourists are the worst no-fun police. The biggest problem with BP is fouling, thats why semiauto in BP would be a inoperable in under 50 rounds, 100 if you're super lucky. Bolt actions in a fullpower cartridge would be king again, 30 cal cartridges probably wouldn't be able go faster than 2000fps, but 150-200gr bullet traveling at that speed still hurts.
barrel fouling never was a problem after the development of cartridges
see Gatlin gun.
I would think it would be less a problem with the barrels and more a problem with the action getting fouled up causing reliability issues.
Not an issue with proper lube and proper bullets. It only appears to be an issue because most people don't know what a proper bullet for BP looks like, even among BP shooters. When dealing with BP cartridges, there's no such thing as too much lube. If your bullet holds enough, you can shoot all day without cleaning. If it doesn't, you don't.
>funny thing about the bullet pictured, a guy invented this a while back because most of the bullet molds out there are for smokeless and the lube grooves aren't big enough
>he thought more lube was the answer
>his bullets did indeed work better
>bullets from 130 years ago also carried a lot more lube
>weird, it's almost like more lube has always been the answer
You're a Lorenz bullet supremacist aren't you.
I was talking about cartridges in a breech loader, where an inside lubricated bullet is the least troublesome way to lubricate the bore. If we're talking muzzle loaders, there are any number of ways to introduce more lube during the loading process. You don't have to count on the bullet to do it.
>30 cal cartridges probably wouldn't be able go faster than 2000fps
You can absolutely break 2200 with Black powder, it's been done before.
Yeah, but the amount of fouling left inside the barrel might be too much.
For a repeating rifle, you might be right (though bolt actions pushing 1800 were possible with black powder), but for a single shot rifle you should be good, it shouldn't be worse than the early big game cartridges.
I bet you'd see 450NE/45-120 or a comparable cartridge used to fire .30 caliber sabots.
Armor becomes a much bigger problem in a BP only world, as even with tungsten projectiles speed is a huge factor in defeating armor.
While you weirdos keep talking about BP, I'm just going to introduce battery-powered guns
>He doesn't use battery powered Black Powder guns
NGMI
muzzleloader chads, we are so back.
>not using the original LeMat buttplug bullet
Dishonorabru.
those are for the shotgun barrel.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU
12guage shotguns run fine on BP.
Gas-operated autos may have fouling issues, but O/Us, SxS, and Pumps will work just fine.
Same with fudd calibres like .30-30 and .44-40 leverguns and .38 revolvers where the original ammo started with BP anyway.
Whatever country the Capandball guy is from.
Did everyone in this thread forget about break and pump action shotguns and slug guns? Everyone with an existing stock of 12g would simply have to disassemble the now-powderless cartridge and reload with black powder, which could be done with improvised tools like a dowel.
I think someone mentioned that, I'm not going to comb through looking for it though.
>all types of smokeless powder and other modern explosives to instantly degrade
Tbh this would just lead to trillions more dollars being poured into directed energy weapons, and railguns/coilguns.
You could argue black powder would be an interim solution for the short term but it wouldn't be too hard to rig drones to carry fuel-air bombs or napalm, or to slap JDAM kits on inert 1000lb kinetic penetrators. Or actually just make BP bombs of all sizes, it's not like there's any AA anymore.
And if you're going to argue that nothing can go boom bigger than a gun we would just end up in a mad max world with small arms impervious APCs and IFVs and ground drones ramming each other at high speeds and trying to cut into each other with vehicle mounted saws or something.
>it's not like there's any AA anymore.
>He doesn't have a corps of Quiggley snipers blowing drones out of the sky from a mile's range.
Gas action is gone, but recoil action is back on the menu for semi autos
Unfortunately, we're going to have to deal with black powder clouds again for conventional warfare but radio communication should help alleviate those problems
Would it be possible to convert smokeless powder cartridges to use compressed air instead? I think that would be more likely for developed countries than going back to black powder, at least as a stop-gap measure before developing coilguns/railguns or possibly even energy weapons.
>Would it be possible to convert smokeless powder cartridges to use compressed air instead?
What on earth are you suggesting?
Enjoy those mighty 10 joules
>uses israeliteLs