Has anyone ever installed a hydroelectric system to help power their house? I am looking for tips and resources to be able to supply an average home with energy. I live on the Erie Canal system and it seems practical to try to use the natural flow of the River to generate power.
As I ponder the pending energy crisis, famine, and war that seem almost inevitable, I am trying to prepare for the storm. I have handled the food, water, ammo issues and am now working on electricity. I’ve done very cursory searches, but cannot figure out how practical or costly this project might be. The other issue is determining the system that would be most useful for my situation.
I tend to ask obscure questions here and rarely get help because of the uniqueness of my projects, but I am hoping this time is different.
>I live on the Erie Canal system
Even if you live in one of the areas with a decent grade you aren't going to be able to power an average house with something that the authorities would allow.
You may be right, but you’re reply is too vague and lacking a rationale to be helpful.
>used meme pic screenshot from gay ass /misc/ thread
>didnt even attempt to edit pic or save original
>didnt even attempt to edit pic or save original
Imagine being so socially moronic that you would think this is something a sane person would be ashamed of, and then posting about it unironically for that purpose.
Water no flow enough
nypd arrest you if try to modify canal
project not practical on property you do not own
There's tons of examples online of people doing this. Main issues physically is the energy potential related to water flow/speed and/or the ability to create it through diversion over enough distance to create a fall or drop that increases the speed.
That means any system will need to be tailored for its location and topography before anything else can proceed...and even with everything else in place you are at the mercy of whatever flow you have, which can change due to seasonal weather, upstream changes either natural or man-made, etc. That could mean no flow or overwhelming flow, btw.
The systems themselves need maintenance like any turbine does, either the added issue or corrosion to deal with.
Hydropower is a great thing if the conditions are right for it, but the cost/ benefits curve is steep when it isn't. They are vulnerable to a lot of potentially fatal problems that in the worst case scenario you describe would be easily triggered and not easy to repair. Were that attempt to take place you are stuck defending what is usually a fairly spread out system, you cant just grab it and bug out....or if it's a self contained drop in system it won't be big enough to do what you describe.
I watched this guy's build series over the last week: https://youtu.be/83Ooug8jG5Y - had lots of elevation.
I was curious of the same thing OP. I have property on a river in FL, so was interested in the same. What about the current running a ram pump to lift water up to storage tank as your reservoir, such as a water tower or 55 gallon drum up in a Cyprus tree?
Or if a wooden wheel was employed, presumably it'd be very slow but powerful. Could it be geared/pulleyed up an adequate speed?
To increase the flow rate enough to power a modern house you would have to restrict the canal in some way to concentrate the water into one spot. As an individual you're not capable of doing this but if you had a company and extensive funds you could do something like this project taking advantage of the height differential of water at a channel lock https://lowimpacthydro.org/lihi-certiicate-155-hydraulic-race-hydroelectric-project-new-york/
>enough to power a modern house
Wait, you mean I can't survive in a lawless post-apocalyptic hellscape *and* have warmed towels and my Tovala subscription food service oven?
Let’s not go that far. Have you seen the price of gas and energy right now, though? It’d be nice to hedge against further increase.
Much better. My property is directly on the canal though. Perhaps my initial scope is too ambitious, but I see products online that seem intended for smaller scale that don’t seem like they’d attract any attention from authorities. A traditional water wheel seems overkill and is not exactly what I was thinking. Perhaps a hydro generator or something to that effect.
Some anon always takes it personally when someone asks for an explanation about something they do not understand
are you going to stick your pic related in slow moving water with little or no head? Once you connect your refrigerator to that generator it will be a lot harder to make it spin. Tell us what sort of water flow you have and how much you plan to restrict it and not draw attention. Are you on a part of the canal that allows recreational traffic? If so you're going to get reported sooner or later when Karen the Kayak Kook goes by.
If I knew what I was doing I wouldn’t be asking. Again, might not be practical or possible, but trying to expand my understanding of the topic.
1. Yes to recreational boat traffic. I have my own docked
2. It’s a typical river so the flow would be typical. There is a hydro dam about a mile from where I live along with a lock.
Maybe solar would be more practical. I already have a natural gas generator, but trying to hedge for fuel cost increases.
It's about the vertical drop, the velocity of the water, you have none of that in a canal
>Some anon always takes it personally when someone asks for an explanation about something they do not understand
You did you ask for any explanation when you posted this-
even after admitting that
>I tend to ask obscure questions here
where you messed up is with this assessment-
>and rarely get help because of the uniqueness of my projects
you aren't getting help be assessment a) your requests are (admittedly) obscure and vague and b) when that gets in the way and naturally results in similarly vague responses you take it personally and apply a double standard to people trying gvto offer the advice YOU sought.
If you say so, anon, but I think you might be reading into it too much. I just asked for an explanation so I can understand the practicality, limitations, etc.
you might be getting negative responses because you're basically asking for spoonfeeding on something that you could have quickly learned more about with a google search.
But to put it all in short terms:
In order to get a substantial amount of power from a small hydroelectric setup you normally use a higher pressure source that takes advantage of the waters drop in elevation across a non-level site. To get a lot of power, you either need lots of volume flow or lots of elevation change/pressure. The problem with taking advantage of a source of flowing water that moves slowly across flat land is that you would need an enormous impeller which won't be practical for you because of technical and legal/social reasons.
Step one: google it, step two: consider solar
The Erie canal does not have enough flow to power anything like that, without diverting the flow, and you'll need state permission to do that, through the NYPA. Good luck with that. if you do it without permission, be prepared for the State Dildo up your ass. And yes, they do patrol/inspect for dumb ideas like this.
schauberger says it can be done and schauberger is never wrong.
I commend you for wanting to tap into an energy source on your doorstep, but unless the canal has a drop of at least 5-6 feet in the distance it covers passing your property, it's not really feasible (and even 6 feet would mean very very little power).
The power you'd get from a hydroelectric turbine is a function of the amount of water and how far it drops before hitting the turbine blades. A canal typically has little to no drop across the distance it takes to flow by a private property.
The investment would be significant for a very small, and likely uncertain output.
Plus all the regulatory hurdles.
My background includes 5 years at a rather large hydroelectric power company and on-site experience at a friend's hydroelectric dam that he uses to power PARTS of his small farm. He has a big fast-flowing river running through his STEEP property, and a huge concrete dam that yields a drop of about 12-15 feet. It was tremendously costly, requires daily cleaning of the intake strainers, and only puts out about 6kW on average.
My advice to you would be to go with solar panels, they are incredibly cheap now - as are AGM batteries. If you have a south facing roof, put them on there. You could build a behemoth of a solar rig for a fraction of the cost of a hydroelectric turbine alone (never mind the dam and PLC costs).
I just installed a 1000W solar array at my cabin which charges a 915Ah AGM bank. Total cost was less than $1500 ($1000 for batteries, $450 for the high output mono grade panels, plus a little bit of wiring).
This powers my fridge, electric water flushing grinder toilet, and LED lighting. I am using propane for food preparation, and wood for heating water to shower and do my dishes with (will also use wood for food prep if shtf and propane is unavailable).
I.e. my solar setup powers the same typical usage pattern as a house with a diesel generator would see during a SHTF situation, sans the generator noise and fuel replenishment issues.
Eh, those 500 watt turbines are pretty cheap
With a proper setup you don't need to clean intakes too often either
Outside extreme conditions like mountain rivers or owning a water fall, it's not worth it
Plus it freezes in the great lakes...
A 500 watt turbine is not even worth installing. It's 500w max, under ideal conditions. The dam and/or piping needed for the necessary elevation means you're already exceeding the cost of a larger output solar array (which do not require actual sunshine, an overcast day still generates power with modern panels and mppt regulators).
A 500W hydro installation produces equivalent power to a 4kW+ PV array, but 500W from a slow flowing canal could only really be done with a big-ass water wheel.
Thanks for the reply. I have also considered solar and will likely go that direction, but the fact that I have a river behind me prompted me to explore the possibilities of hydroelectric first.
Geothermal seems impractical since my house is already built and I don’t have a ton of land. Windmills would be too cumbersome and attract attention which I am trying to avoid.
I think the primary reason I was thinking hydroelectric was to minimize attracting attention from would be invaders. Sounds silly, but if shit truly hits the fan, I am trying to keep my home as inconspicuous as possible. Defensible is priority two which I’ve already done some work on. Unfortunately a roof full of solar panels or a wind turbine are easy to spot.
I did a little bit of Google research prior and saw some people who built and used hydroelectric, but not in my situation. I figured it meant it would be impractical, but no harm in asking.
Okay
I will look into it. The wooden wheel would probably attract much attention from authorities.
Chilling good where I live would be easy enough most of the year.
I don’t know why everyone says it’s impossible. I know people that have had these hooked up to batteries for almost a decade in rural Netherlands. No fast rivers, the thing just spins slowly. Sure you won’t run a normal household on one but getting like 300-500W should be doable, if it flows moderately fast and you can build one legally
They don't even produce 300-500 watts mate
nobody is saying that hydroelectric power is impossible, we're saying that it is not possible in his specific situation and he cannot realistically harness the power of the canal without extensive planning and expensive permitting and construction from the state government.
the erie canal is a historic artificial waterway, it's not a river in rural netherlands.
It's not impossible, it's just expensive and impractical when there are much better and easier options for cheap power generation available.
>As I ponder the pending energy crisis, famine, and war that seem almost inevitable, I am trying to prepare for the storm. I have handled the food, water, ammo issues and am now working on electricity.
nice blog how do I unsubscribe...
no one cares about this.
>it seems practical
It is not practical. There are not enough watts available to be captured. You need one of two things to make hydro work: big elevation change (read: dam), or large volume flow constricted to high rate.
You will get neither in a canal system. For not the least reason that they're specifically designed to be slack. They're for barges, after all.
If you're basically telling me you're on the Mohawk, you'll only have enough watts coming through there in the spring with the thaws.
It's so lethargic they don't even bother generating power from Delta dam. (Nice paddling lake tho.)
Go with solar or wind if you want to generate your own power. Water power is feasible, but it's incredibly challenging. Most of what you'll need to build to harness hydro power is going to be custom, so I hope you're a machinist. Meanwhile you can just buy solar panels and wind turbines - and most of them come with multi-year warranties if they're installed correctly.
If you have cold, running water it's much more efficient for cooling food. Saves you on power if it's available, but it's not necessarily as reliable. Also, it requires cold water and not everywhere has year-round 6 C rivers. My great grandma would tell me stories about how they kept milk cold in the river behind her house before they had a refrigerator. Sometimes they'd chuck stuff in the river with an anchor if they ran out of room in the fridge.
the only difficult part is having waterfront and access to a large enough stream that can provide power without being fricked by the government.
I have waterfront land on a large enough river. The government, however, is the problem…as usual
Here’s a picture of the river that might help. Phone posting so
Check out vortex generators anon.
https://www.kourispower.com/technology/
simple alternator generator.
water wheel/ turbine wheel on drive rod,
pulley on end of drive rod
pulley on car alternator. run a belt between both.
creates DC output. run to a battery charger, charge battery pack,
run to a DC/AC inverter, run to output source.
you could run multiple alternators off one drive rod assembly with belts and pulleys
its works, ive made one and seen it run.