what does /k/ think of Japans new service rifle?
looks like a SCAR copy to me but maybe its just the stock
Look souless like most modern rifles
Look like a mix of scar and acr (they both great weapons and good looking too but mixing them together just dont do it)
I saw it has a reciprocating charging handle. Unique choice.
A 13” barrel is really strange to me. I guess the Japs believe they’ll be fighting mostly urban combat.
>Japs believe they’ll be fighting mostly urban combat
doesn't their constitution forbid the jsdf from operating outside of japanese territory?
i imagine any conflict within japan would be mostly concentrated in cities
>Japs believe they’ll be fighting mostly urban combat
doesn't their constitution forbid the jsdf from operating outside of japanese territory?
i imagine any conflict within japan would be mostly concentrated in cities
isnt a 13 in barrel completely fine for 99% of engagements even outside of an irban setting?
I think also if you consider the environment of SEA and most of china outside of urban areas is heavily jungled and mountainous, so engagements wont be over far distances anyway even outside of urban areas (altho rice patties are pretty open, idk)
I like it. I usually hate these sorts of rifles, but this one is more unique than people think. It's also closer to a AR-18 and piston AR-15 than a full blown SCAR copy.
Not very good for mountains and hills, Afghanistan proved that.
There wasn't a lot of foliage on the mountains in Afghanistan, in most other parts of the world, makes a big difference in terms of average engagement distance.
>It's also closer to a AR-18 and piston AR-15 than a full blown SCAR copy.
Please elaborate if you're going to say something so stupid.
- An extruded aluminum upper, a method first popularized by the SCAR
- The stock is nearly identical to the SCAR's in terms of both shape and controls
- The lower is removed from the upper in the exact same way by pulling out the front pin and pushing the lower forward before pivoting it off
- Anyone with eyes could tell you that the design of the bolt carrier is more similar to the SCAR's than the AR18's, and the reciprocating charging handle only supports that claim.
- The barrel/trunion are held in via screws on either side of the receiver, unlike the AR15 and AR18
The only thing I'll give you is the gas system is similar to the AR18's, a design which wasn't even first used on the AR18.
Nice, you found the wikipedia page! Now go ahead and read it so you can provide some actual points to refute my claim and argue that the Type 20 is more similar to the AR-18 than the SCAR.
>a reciprocating charging handle
i never understood the up-side to this feature
wouldnt you want to avoid having things that move on the outside of your gun for the sake of not having it snag or jam on you?
Being able to directly manipulate the bolt can have uses, clearing malfunctions for example.
I don’t know how much of an actual problem snagging is, or if it’s just a hypothetical people on here come up with.
>snag
Arguably an issue with literally any charging handle, including the AR15's. >jam
Compared to a NRCH, the only extra jam you could induce is if your hand/fingers are behind the charging handle while shooting; and it looks like the Type 20's is further back than the SCAR's, reducing the likelihood of this happening.
Benefits? Simplicity and the ability to use it as a forward assist. Just look at picrel (a cutaway view) for the complex linkage the ACR uses for their non-reciprocating charging handle to be able to be used as a forward assist. A design that the Grotcel trying to shit up this thread will refuse to acknowledge was first done by the ACR and therefore copied on their shitty slav rifle.
Compare that to just drilling a hole in the bolt carrier and sticking a handle in.
a reciprocating charging handle removes complexity, without it you need to add a forward assist to aid with failures to feed and other malfunctions
I can't speak directly to the ACR et al, but my XCR's NRCH very much can be used as a forward assist just by pushing the knob inwards toward the receiver, then pushing forward to move the bolt. I believe that many other rifles with NRCH have a similar feature where you can manipulate the handle to use it as a forward assist. Maybe not quite as simple as a fixed, reciprocating CH, but it is a feature that exists.
I agree I think the XCR's charging handle is a superior design. But I think most modern NRCH's either can't be used as a forward assist (see PSA JAKL, CMMG Dissent, APC 556 Pro) or can be used as a forward assist by employing a "sleigh" design very similar to the ACR's (see Bren 2, Grot, SCAR NRCH)
>snag
Arguably an issue with literally any charging handle, including the AR15's. >jam
Compared to a NRCH, the only extra jam you could induce is if your hand/fingers are behind the charging handle while shooting; and it looks like the Type 20's is further back than the SCAR's, reducing the likelihood of this happening.
Benefits? Simplicity and the ability to use it as a forward assist. Just look at picrel (a cutaway view) for the complex linkage the ACR uses for their non-reciprocating charging handle to be able to be used as a forward assist. A design that the Grotcel trying to shit up this thread will refuse to acknowledge was first done by the ACR and therefore copied on their shitty slav rifle.
Compare that to just drilling a hole in the bolt carrier and sticking a handle in.
Its a direct SCAR copy, and that's a perfectly sensible choice. They already used an AR18 for the last 30 years, now they've got an AR18 with an extruded upper and rails. Its a direct upgrade that wont require significant retraining of armorers and field stripping should be pretty much the same too. I doubt there's any retroactive parts compatibility though, not that thats going to bother anybody.
Look souless like most modern rifles
Look like a mix of scar and acr (they both great weapons and good looking too but mixing them together just dont do it)
They all look the same to me.
>muh soul
I saw it has a reciprocating charging handle. Unique choice.
A 13” barrel is really strange to me. I guess the Japs believe they’ll be fighting mostly urban combat.
It’s a cool looking rifle though.
>Japs believe they’ll be fighting mostly urban combat
doesn't their constitution forbid the jsdf from operating outside of japanese territory?
i imagine any conflict within japan would be mostly concentrated in cities
isnt a 13 in barrel completely fine for 99% of engagements even outside of an irban setting?
I think also if you consider the environment of SEA and most of china outside of urban areas is heavily jungled and mountainous, so engagements wont be over far distances anyway even outside of urban areas (altho rice patties are pretty open, idk)
I like it. I usually hate these sorts of rifles, but this one is more unique than people think. It's also closer to a AR-18 and piston AR-15 than a full blown SCAR copy.
Not very good for mountains and hills, Afghanistan proved that.
>this one is more unique than people think. It's also closer to a AR-18 and piston AR-15 than a full blown SCAR copy.
In what capacity?
There wasn't a lot of foliage on the mountains in Afghanistan, in most other parts of the world, makes a big difference in terms of average engagement distance.
>It's also closer to a AR-18 and piston AR-15 than a full blown SCAR copy.
Please elaborate if you're going to say something so stupid.
- An extruded aluminum upper, a method first popularized by the SCAR
- The stock is nearly identical to the SCAR's in terms of both shape and controls
- The lower is removed from the upper in the exact same way by pulling out the front pin and pushing the lower forward before pivoting it off
- Anyone with eyes could tell you that the design of the bolt carrier is more similar to the SCAR's than the AR18's, and the reciprocating charging handle only supports that claim.
- The barrel/trunion are held in via screws on either side of the receiver, unlike the AR15 and AR18
The only thing I'll give you is the gas system is similar to the AR18's, a design which wasn't even first used on the AR18.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-18
Nice, you found the wikipedia page! Now go ahead and read it so you can provide some actual points to refute my claim and argue that the Type 20 is more similar to the AR-18 than the SCAR.
>a reciprocating charging handle
i never understood the up-side to this feature
wouldnt you want to avoid having things that move on the outside of your gun for the sake of not having it snag or jam on you?
Being able to directly manipulate the bolt can have uses, clearing malfunctions for example.
I don’t know how much of an actual problem snagging is, or if it’s just a hypothetical people on here come up with.
I can't speak directly to the ACR et al, but my XCR's NRCH very much can be used as a forward assist just by pushing the knob inwards toward the receiver, then pushing forward to move the bolt. I believe that many other rifles with NRCH have a similar feature where you can manipulate the handle to use it as a forward assist. Maybe not quite as simple as a fixed, reciprocating CH, but it is a feature that exists.
I agree I think the XCR's charging handle is a superior design. But I think most modern NRCH's either can't be used as a forward assist (see PSA JAKL, CMMG Dissent, APC 556 Pro) or can be used as a forward assist by employing a "sleigh" design very similar to the ACR's (see Bren 2, Grot, SCAR NRCH)
>snag
Arguably an issue with literally any charging handle, including the AR15's.
>jam
Compared to a NRCH, the only extra jam you could induce is if your hand/fingers are behind the charging handle while shooting; and it looks like the Type 20's is further back than the SCAR's, reducing the likelihood of this happening.
Benefits? Simplicity and the ability to use it as a forward assist. Just look at picrel (a cutaway view) for the complex linkage the ACR uses for their non-reciprocating charging handle to be able to be used as a forward assist. A design that the Grotcel trying to shit up this thread will refuse to acknowledge was first done by the ACR and therefore copied on their shitty slav rifle.
Compare that to just drilling a hole in the bolt carrier and sticking a handle in.
a reciprocating charging handle removes complexity, without it you need to add a forward assist to aid with failures to feed and other malfunctions
>complexity
we're not talking about the G-11's firing mechanism here, rifle will be fine
Looks pretty cool. It also goes pewpew. 10/10
>looks like a SCAR copy
eh i can see the inspiration but to me it looks like more of an ACR?
Its a direct SCAR copy, and that's a perfectly sensible choice. They already used an AR18 for the last 30 years, now they've got an AR18 with an extruded upper and rails. Its a direct upgrade that wont require significant retraining of armorers and field stripping should be pretty much the same too. I doubt there's any retroactive parts compatibility though, not that thats going to bother anybody.
Nothing radical, I bet it works great though.
are they exporting type 64s yet
Japanese law forbids exporting anything military, iirc
man what the frick it's not like they're using it for anything useful
Irrelevant, Gaijin
everything below 16“ is for manlets
that’s a wannabe grot
I mean I like my weatherby vanguard. It’s probably well made if nothing else
I wonder if Browning will sell a civilian model stateside at a decent price.