They didn't receive massive military and financial assistance from literally the entire world? Would they have lasted a month?
How well would Ukraine have faired if
They didn't receive massive military and financial assistance from literally the entire world? Would they have lasted a month?
They didn't receive jack shit for the first 3 months or so.
They'd be completely and utterly fucked. They'd have held out well initially, but definitely could not have survived 2022.
Aid was coming as early as March 2022. More or less since the invasion started, it's been flowing. That's not counting prior western assistance in training and equipment.
>Aid was coming as early as March 2022
I doubt a few NLAWs and Javelins have changed the course of war.
The West has been bankrolling Ukraine with more than a handful of high-end ATGMs. Everything they use is either western made or purchased with western money outside their dwindling prewar platforms (which can't fire anything without western-sponsored ammo). This goes down to paychecks for the civil service. The country is bankrupt from the war and is held afloat with western cash.
>Russia would totally win if it wasn't for X, Y and Z
To quote a Russian POW "The plan was retarded but if it worked it would've been a good plan"
Not really, theres 1000x more Stugna-P footage than javelin footage for example
>Not really, theres 1000x more Stugna-P footage than javelin footage for example
The javelins were handed out to ukies who did not know to use them, and they also lacked batteries, which meant that unfired missiles included guidance unit were abandoned to the russians when the ukies were forced to withdraw since they were considered dead weight. Stugna had 100% indigenous support and works.
>The country is bankrupt from the war and is held afloat with western cash.
It's good to have powerful friends, innit?
So maybe Russia should have considered Western aid when they decided to attack.
>High-end ATGMs
Ukraine has BGM-71Fs?
>BGM-71F
He said high end ATGMs, not legacy missiles kek
they did fine
this
lol no, the himars were the real boon, but prior to their arrival, the Ruskies lost a shit load of troops and armor. Maybe they would've been more evenly matched for longer. But as the meatgrinder persisted RU would wind up the same as it is now, HIMARS just sped up the process.
>the Ruskies lost a shit load of troops and armor
The push to Kyiv was likely to fail regardless, that's true. The Ukrainians would not have been able to stand up to the current slow grind. Forget about mounting a Kherson offensive. There would not have been the platforms or the shells to continue. Russians would have few supply troubles and complete air dominance.
You're still on these stupid Javelins. Javelins did not win the war. An infinite supply of money, vehicles/weapon systems (SAMs), and ammunition was what allowed them to survive.
Imagine a Ukraine with no money, vehicles, SAMs or shells. That is what a Ukraine without the west looks like.
>Imagine a Ukraine with no money, vehicles, SAMs or shells. That is what a Ukraine without the west looks like.
That's cool, but it has all those things, so what exactly is your point?
The point is to answer this
question with "a month, yes. A year, no."
They had been holding on for 8 years when the war started, and doing exceedingly well. It seems your intent of pretending this is a war against NATO didn't pay off at all.
Additionally, Russia has received military aid from Iran, China and North Korea and squandered it all. It's aid they should never need, but they asked for anyway.
>They had been holding on for 8 years
They did not previously face a full on offensive to crush the country. They would not have survived one in 2014, and would not have survived one in 2022 without the west pouring massive amounts of financial and material aid in through the western border almost from day 1.
>I have no doubt Ukraine would have held all the same
With an army that would have increasingly looked like a DPR militia on a bad day? A bunch of minimally trained infantrymen running around with rusty AKs and no hope of support? Delusional.
>a full on offensive to crush the country.
Well, it's nice to get a truthful statement out of a vatnik, even if it's incidental. I don't think your tard-wranglers are gonna like this post much, though.
>Muh vatnik
Not an argument, which I guess means you're done.
Didn't mean to touch a nerve, but let's stop bullshitting here.
tyrion lannister looking mf
Tyrion was handsome
>Special Volunteer Guard
Wow Ukraine rounding up all the disabled people, they really are nazis
>rounding up all the disabled people
They're called Serbs.
>babovic
More like babbyvic
that's fucking cyпepcyc and you cannot convince me otherwise
...This is satire right?
No, it's a Serb.
> "a month, yes. A year, no."
Militarily, maybe. But I can easily imagine a segue after that into a long-term partisan resistance with broad sympathy among forty million Ukrainian nationals.
How long would the Russian government be willing to send hundreds of thousands of troops to prop up their puppet regime after the first IEDs went off?
10 years, if we look at the precedent in Afghanistan.
Hmmm... but that's ten years for the Soviet Union, a megastate with significantly less corruption, twice the population, and four times the economic activity of present-day Russia. Even Putin at his most Sunk Cost Fallacy might have to throw in the towel before the full decade was up.
>That's cool, but it has all those things, so what exactly is your point?
That’s literally the point of the thread, retard. To speculate would ukraine have survived without all of the support.
>Imagine a Ukraine with no money, vehicles, SAMs or shells.
They sure as fuck had SAMs and shells, just not enough to rout the wave of retards that crossed their border. Apparently, Russia didn't have enough either, and burned it all missile striking maternity wards during the first few months.
With the incessant string of fuckups during the first year, I have no doubt Ukraine would have held all the same, just with more human loss.
>Imagine a Ukraine with no money, vehicles, SAMs or shells. That is what a Ukraine without the west looks like.
But the west wasn't giving Ukraine any of that shit in the opening months of the war. All Ukraine was getting were Javelins, NLAW and various MANPADS, on the assumption this was aid that would be useful in an insurgency. Those weapon systems augmented Ukrainian infantry, but 100% of their heavy kit like armor, artillery and long range air defense was their Soviet derived slav shit.
Even now there is a better chance that a Ukrainian tank crew finds itself in a captured Russian tank than in a tank sent by NATO.
>Even now there is a better chance that a Ukrainian tank crew finds itself in a captured Russian tank than in a tank sent by NATO.
I mean that's another thing. Ukrainian farmers were looting multi million dollar pieces of abandoned Russian military kit in under a week of the war starting, and transferring it to their army. Ukraine mathematically couldn't have run out of heavy kit in the first month of the war because they were looting too much of it from the Russians. Vatniks have essentially memory holed what absolute clusterfuck the opening stages of the war were.
>Convoy rolls in
>NLAW smacks first tank
>Abandonerfeb2o22.jpeg x1000
>TOR,T72/80/90m tractored
>BORIS JOHNSON DIDNT HELP AT ALL
Boris just flew over my house.
Boris just flew into my kremlin
I still can't believe this shit became so widespread that it was trendy and rural townspeople went out looking for abandoned (or even just unwatched) equipment just for social media clout lmao. I distinctly remember some complete instagram thot and her brother/boyfriend hijacking a BMP and figuring out how to drive it away while she posed for her videos
Here you go dude, is this what you were talking about?
Yes, thank you based anon
I have loads more of locals running around with captured kit, russian soldiers and videos of vatniks looting chickens from peoples gardens. I shod make a thread with them one day.
Check out this guys red shoes in a BTR82a lol
How fucking small is she that she makes that driver compartment seem big?
She's Russian and has a tiktok channel where she fixes cars with her husband. Or at least she used to.
Unfortunate. I knew it was odd that it had fuel in it :/
Just stop drop and roll, ya dummy!
I still can’t wrap my head around the shitshow that the first weeks were
>fuckhuge convoys just stuck in place
>lack of anti-air allowing for even relatively low-tech drones like Bayraktars a free reign to bomb Russians
>abandooners all over the place
It’s like a fever dream.
It has been a shitshow all the way through. Remember chornobaivka?
All the memes about A-10 pilots in Germany being put under house arrest to stop them from going rogue, kek. iirc it was a genuine security concern because some of those guys wanted to
I mean they captured literally hundreds of tanks in a matter of weeks. The equivalent of many nations' entire armored corps. Fucking vatniks
>live in Finland
>for decades hear local defeatists talk about how it would be impossible to stop Russia if they attack
>saboteurs and missiles will destroy all critical infrastructure, endless streams of tanks will pur in from the border etc. scaremongering
>instead the reality was *this*
Wheres that vid of armored convoy get very close ambushed.
NATO commander will tell to scout area ahead, but ofc not vatmorons. Despite experience in checens war
Does anyone have a number for captured tanks?
>Figures, obtained from the Ministry of Defence (MOD) after a UK Defence Journal Freedom of Information request, show the number of flights increased from six in December 2021 to a peak of 18 in March, just after the beginning of Russia's invasion.
How about the 24/7 ISR/ISTAR coverage by the US/UK?
Imagine knowing every move Russia is about to make before it happens, every convoys location, coordinates for strikes etc.
This is a HUGE factor in Ukraines success.
> The Ukrainians would not have been able to stand up to the current slow grind.
Eh, debatable. The Ukrainians have demonstrated themselves to be resourceful, cool under fire, highly motivated, and remarkably defiant even against overwhelming odds. The "Russian warship, go fuck yourself!" moment cemented their reputation in international eyes.
> Imagine a Ukraine with no money, vehicles, SAMs or shells.
I am. And in all honesty, I'd offer even odds that the RF STILL found some way to fuck it all up, and there would STILL be salty butthurt vatniks sobbing in frustration while they spam bullshit what-if threads on a Mongolian basket weaving forum.
>B-but what if the Ukrainians weren't allowed to fight back a-and literally everybody else in the world had just let us bully a nation right across our border like we wanted? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IT'S NOT FAIR!
There, there, pidor. Save some tears for your next humiliation. The worst is yet to come.
>Ruskies lost a shit load of troops and armor
They took out the armor thanks to all the modern anti tank weapons they received from the west. They virtually had nothing but rpgs without the charity.
This is wrong, 95% work done was using domestic Stugna ATGMs.
95%? I’m guessing with such a specific number you have some proof.
I haven’t seen a single video posted here that wasn’t an nlaw or javelin. Which they received virtually as soon as the war started.
There are videos of Stugnas dropping fucking helicopters. Plural.
Try the first 8 years.
Bull, they got a shitload of Javelins and friends ahead of the new invasion.
7000 NLAWs say your a retard.
That was the month prior to invasion too, British Polish Danish and Czech aid poured in post invasion.
>the way they fly around germany
top kek
Jaa, correct dokumentation takes too long! Fly round! Zis ist totally not us clinging onto our Russian relationship
NLAW, Stinger, TB2 were the star players in the Russian attempt on Kiev/initial assault.
Fucking hell that's a lot of flights for two days.
>your a retard
>Correcting grammar and spelling on PrepHole
Deal with it incel, if this is what makes you feel special I'm happy for tou
>I only type like a fucking mongoloid on PrepHole
Get the fuck out of my webzone, retard.
Stick a cake in it Juan, Internet police aren't hiring fatties
Keep calling people retarded with that learning disability of yours, Dwight.
> 7000 NLAWs say your a retard.
No, for the contraction of "you are" they'd say "you're".
They had satellite intelligence from the start.
Ukraine has been subsidized by the US for decades
>They didn't receive jack shit for the first 3 months or so.
They recieved tons of aid BEFORE the war. F.ex thousands of TOWs and Javelins and hundreds of armored cars. Not to mention top tier intel from satellites, elint aircraft etc. In the first three months they recieved enormous amounts of man portable anti tank up to and including ATGMs, ammunition, small arms, more armored cars etc etc.
they've been training with nato since 2014
They did for the past 9 years
> negotiated peace
Sorry. It’s to the last hohol
Kiev would’ve survived but expect Kherson, Zaporzhia, Kharkiv, Donestk, and Lugansk to end up in Russian hands with a negotiated peace
But then the same thing would happen in 2014 which would be Russia invading AGAIN to bite off ANOTHER piece and would Ukraine THEN get the assistance? At the very least Ukraine would transition it's military one way or another. Probably also try to acquire nukes, especially if left to fend on their own.
Assuming Russian losses weren't crippling to the point of requiring at least a decade if not more to recover from? Yeah they probably would try to snatch more territory eventually.
>hey guys, what about TRANNIES AND GAYS?
this guy is remarkable
during an interview on Deutsche Welle he said that he believes Biden is the best US President since FDR, and he was very serious.
So is his message here a falsehood?
>How dare he have opinions that differ from mine
It’s not that his opinion is different, it’s that he said possibly one of the dumbest things anyone could conceivably say. Should people not be judged for what they say? If I said something stupid you’d roast me for it, but this guy gets a pass?
Well he's an expert on Eastern European history and politics, you can forgive him for having bad takes on American ones
Putin is the best leader Russia has ever had. Forgive me if my opinion is dumb, you see, I’m not an expert in Russian politics.
I mean, they've pretty much all been reckless, murderous cunts, so this isn't that crazy of a suggestion.
>Putin is the best leader Russia has ever had.
That's not really a compliment.
Who's that? Serious question, I had his video bookmarked to watch and I forgot the name.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_
class 23
this guy nailed it years ago
The Kiev front would still be just a "feint"
the Russian millitary would still be a joke
The drone footage would still be there
they didnt had much help yet in feb-march period when russia still had a decent chance to blitz and get what they wanted
How long would ukraine have lasted if they didn’t dismantle their entire nuclear deterrent in exchange for security deals. Vatniks are crying that they’re getting some tanks and missiles because of a security agreement they signed instead of moscow being instantly nuked
>How long would ukraine have lasted if they didn’t dismantle their entire nuclear deterrent in exchange for security deals
I honestly doubt that deterrent would have been in very good shape anyway, the Ukrainian Military was in dire shape in 2014 and had to basically rebuild themselves from scratch. I'd wager half the reason they signed them away was because they'd be expensive white elephants otherwise.
Probably not but all they had to do is keep like half a dozen functional nukes pointed at Moscow, French "force de frappe" style. But at the time they were probably more of a Belarus style situation and the Lukashenko equivalent at the time would never have dreamed of it.
The most important thing the West gives to Ukraine vis a vis military aid is intelligence. The actual large shipments of weapons did not come until months later, and while ultimately very important were not as vital. I think even in total lack of wester aid whatsoever that Ukraine would still be hanging on, albeit by a thread.
>Would they have lasted a month?
Easily. The initial Russian push would have still been BTFO'd but the Ukrainians would suffer hardest in the Summer when they started to run dry of 122mm/152mm artillery ammunition. I don't think we would see "sweeping advances" but Russia would have probably been able to capture the 4 regions they wanted to by mid 2023 with high Ukrainian casualties. I think both sides would sue for peace around now with Russia giving up on total regime change and sour to the idea of occupying the extremely anti-Russian western Ukraine but keeping the regions they wanted most.
> Would they have lasted a month?
They lasted for several months and stopped russian army well before any real western military help was delivered.
Nah, the brits especially dumped NLAWs on them en masse very very early.
Which helped with armored vehicles, but Ukraine didn't get any manner of AA solution until over half a year in. Russia never had air superiority in Ukraine.
MANPADS were delivered in the first month of invasion.
Russian army was stopped in few days after invasion well before any western military help was delivered. No matter you like it or not, but it's a fact. Every western piece of equipment saved lives and territory during summer 2022 grind and further but it was not a determinant in ukrainies strategic loss or strategic victory. At least for now, maybe if war continues for years and ukrainian military equipment will be fully lost, then yes.
It's anyone's guess.
What is meaning of “pp cage”
yandex has the answer for you.
penis cage
>these tweets are protected
damnit
Cock cages are cringe.
You know those Russians, they put pp cages on everything.
I like my women(male) cock caged.
No one asked you gay
>complains about a chud notkeeping his cock out
>calls somebody else a gay
It’s to protect from ATGM attacks
Gonna need the sauce on this one, chief
He’s a Russian Femboy who wants Ramzan Kadyrov to cum inside his ass see
his tweets are protected but you can add him as a friend in Steam or discord.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/SnezhnyyKrolik
He lives in a city that is 50% Muslim Tatars btw, you can bet everything you have he's just one more among many ethnic Russians who were raped by ethnic minorities and he became a gay to cope.
>They didn't receive massive military and financial assistance from literally the entire world?
Why do russians and their sychophants always frame it as that as if it was even a tenth of the initial superiority in arms and tanks russia had?
btw at the eve of barbarossa the red army had superiority in everything but manpower
Very badly. They've needed foreign support for everything from tanks to shells to bullets and camo to Javelins and HIMARS and drone components.
How well would Russia have faired if they didn't receive Lend Lease in WW2?
Ukraine is an was a poor country. They have been receiving training and gear going back years. Without the strong western support they might have held against the first wave. Their TDF tank units did a wonderful job of thrashing the Russians in the opening days of the war. They also probably would have repelled Holostomel. But shortly after that without money to pay grunts. Medical supplies to fix them, and ammo/guns to keep them fighting they would have failed. Keep in mind that the Ukies have had their power grid attacked many times and relied on Western aid to bring it back. Also keep in mind they have received a lot of Western aid in the form of Intel which helps keep their ops from being as shitty as the Russians.
>if we didn't lose we would've won
well, that sucks
If only the ass wasn’t in the ass
They routed the Russians from Kyiv before any military aid had arrived. And Russia isn't losing this war because of NATO assistance, Russia is losing this war because they are incompetent.
no one knows because that's how stupid, entirely avoidable wars of aggression go if they are preceded by denials rather than months of yelling "Saddam Hussein I am coming to kill you. In Baghdad. At your house."
Your question is interesting but flawed...
The west has been providing ukie with military assistance for years. Does no one remember the media frenzy about trump trying to condition military aide on ukies investigating the biden family?
How well would puccia have faired if it didn't receive financial assistance from literally the entire world in the 90s?
This war happened because the West made a mistake and didn't completely subjugate Russia. This mistake is now being rectified.
90% of russia would look exactly the same. The rest would still be larping as neo-USSR with fake shows of strength. So I suppose it'd all look the same except with fewer megayachts in the world
That’s a man. A пeдик to be exact.
The invasion failed from the start. The Russian (failed) state couldn't even bully Belarus into taking part, they couldn't set up a supply scheme to fuel and support the invasion, their inventories were vastly overestimated and plundered by the culture of corruption that defines the kleptocratic shithole. At best they could have just created a quagmire with several occupied territories draining resources and held as broken puppet states but that slipped through their hands before the first major retreat even.
Incredibly fucked.
Britain was sending so much rocket their way that without it all the Ivans would have managed to eventually bust through with the shitty tanks they had.
> How well would the RF have fared if, when the collective West said an invasion of Ukraine would bring serious consequences, they had remembered that "writing some checks" and "donating hand-me-downs" were potential courses of action from a pissed-off international community?
FTFY
honestly russians are such shit skin morons that there'd probably be millionaires and billionaires funding ngos to keep kiling russians.
The trajectory would have been very similar to the Winter War: Russia would have left Kyiv but then regrouped and rearmed and made a slow grinding advance from the Donbass westward. By the Fall of 2022 Ukraine would have been out of ammo and equipment, but the Russians would also have been similarly worn down. Ukraine would be on the ropes and Russia and Ukraine would have settled for some kind of deal where Russia formally takes the territory the conquered, as Russia would not consider it worth the risk to mobilize and try to take Ukraine in full.