How sketchy would it be to buy a 140 year old brick house with a backroom that has a lean to it?
How much would it be to fix something like this if it needs to be reframed/bricked/whatever?
every other part of the house is bretty gud except this shit here
You can see in the top right corner on the inside of the room the left wall is pushing the right wall causing the room to lean.
Is that structural brick or just cladding?
this was an addon to the house that was built sometime after the the house itself. it's structural to that particular addon but not to the entire house. the rest of the house seems solid.
you can see the whole room is at a slight slant here
I was kinda thinking that. I was thinking i'd put it under contract to lock it down then get somebody to look at it.
here is the listing
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2817-Nebraska-Ave_Saint-Louis_MO_63118_M76482-40922
they installed all new HVAC and a new sewerstack which has me a lil sus as to why they put so much money into it but let it go into foreclosure for only 85k.
So price the house as if the addon is a complete write off. Make sure you point it out a million times to the seller and use scary words like liability, etc.
40 grand would be baller, i'ma do just that probly gonna cost 30+ grand to fix this shit anyway & the ARV is only about 190k
There are 2 rules of thumb that a lot of real estate people use on homes. For reselling, never go over 65% of ARV all-in, so if you think the ARV is 190k (and that's likely generous) then purchase plus reno should be no more than 124k. And your 30 grand fixup is also likely very optimistic, at least double it to 60 or even 75k. That would leave you 48k as a max purchase price, about the cost I suggested in my earlier post.
If you want to rent it out, the rule of thumb is the rent should be 1% of the total cost. Looking up rents gives us about 1250 a month from rentometer.com, which means your all-in price should be 125k, very similar to what the other rule gave you. At this point, since the numbers are the same, we can see again a purchase price of 48k is also not out of line.
So, yea, if you're looking for some back-of-napkin numbers, my amazing mathematical crystal ball tells me that all signs point auspiciously to an offer price of in the 40s. So sayeth the stars, the tea leaves, and the magic 8-ball.
>this man demands on 12% on paper roi
Rent pigs are pathetic if they let you do this.
>muh maintence!
>muh occupancy rate!
Lol
>they installed all new HVAC and a new sewerstack which has me a lil sus as to why they put so much money into it but let it go into foreclosure for only 85k.
I just recently completed a big reno in the summer and tried to sell but the market is just getting reamed 6 ways from Sunday because of the high interest rates not to mention materials being so expensive. Looks like it was sold in 2020 and then listed for 135 in 2023, probably expecting a quick cashout but throughout the year you can see them chopping at the price pretty much every month that it stayed on the market, so they're very motivated to sell.
That being said, is it even worth the 85 they're asking for? Nothing is stopping you from putting in an all cash offer of 40k just to test the waters. Looks like the place was not actively being traded since 2004 so may have gone slowly to shit until they got it in 2020 and probably got it for a song anyway.
>Saint Louis
Don't do this.
it is too late
I would probably keep it for income. I asked for disclosures over a week ago now from the listing agent but have heard frick all back. I'm also looking at a 4plex with wavy floors for 260k that ARVs for 410. other than the wavy floors it's in fairly good condition. I was planning on offering 255k and then tryna knock him down further after the inspections inevitably turn something up.
if I can get a structural engineer to verify that, seems like a pretty safe bet, though it doesn't seem likely considering the price history
>I would probably keep it for income. I asked for disclosures over a week ago now from the listing agent but have heard frick all back.
Good man - resell market is hard. I'm assuming you're self-funding this whole thing?
>I'm also looking at a 4plex with wavy floors for 260k that ARVs for 410. other than the wavy floors it's in fairly good condition. I was planning on offering 255k and then tryna knock him down further after the inspections inevitably turn something up.
Remember that ARV isn't really meaningful unless you're BRRing or selling it right away but both are risky at this time. But if you get it for around 250-260 and put say 40k per unit into it (which may be a little thin, honestly) you're all in at 410k. And if each unit can generate a thousand a month, we've got 4k gross on an asset that's around 400k. Not a terrible deal though it's not earthshattering either, I'd personally want to see the cap rate in an area like that to be higher . But with this type of value-add deal, you live and die by your rehab estimates, so make sure those are absolutely solid AND that you have extra cash as an oh-shit contingency. But again, that's all just ballpark guesstimates, not knowing anything about the property so I could be way off in either direction.
I would be self funding the rehab & DIYing most of it as well save for the big shit(if the wavy floors is a joist issue).
with the 4 unit property i'd have to take out a DSCR but the unit is already income producing with 3/4 of the units producing around 2k a month collectively with a mortgage being around 1600 a month. so it'd be paying for itself while I rehab, then rents around there can go for around 1000-1200 depending on how nice the renovations are. basically the conditions of the floor are what are going to make or break the deal, if the seller is willing to take the cost of repair out of the selling price.
I also just finally got word from the realtor on the place with the lean and they said "we don't know anything because it's a foreclosure". I was personally leaning towards the leaning place & completely self fund &
>loans
kinda scare me but the 4 unit seems like a better good deal if the seller isn't all "I know what I got" about it.
if this thread is still up I'll see if I can't take some pictures of it when I get it under contract.
Definitely just get an estimate from a contractor that does structural stuff. But from being involved in a couple of jobs where structures of old homes needed repair, I would just assume it's at least 20k minimum and may even need legitimate engineering to ensure safety
people who live in brick houses die in earthquakes. do you have earthquakes in your area?
>people who live in brick houses die in earthquakes
Not my problem, learn to build.
>learn to build.
we did, which is why we banned masonry as a structural material. meanwhile hundreds of you yuropoors in your brick and stone houses die every time there is an earthquake.
>we did, which is why we banned masonry
good job contradicting yourself
>as a structural material.
use reinforced concrete, idiot
>hundreds of you yuropoors in your brick and stone houses die every time there is an earthquake
our brick houses can withstand 8.5 earthquakes
One leaning wall? (I have seen a 3 story brick house that was that stabilized by engineering). You have to determine why is it leaning. Why is it moving. Is it moving at top or at bottom? Bucking in the middle?
Inspect the foundation below grade. If brick foundation is in ground is probably damp and deteriorating it is probably a lost cause. Maybe better to replace that one leaning wall with thick insulated wood frame and big windows. You have to keep the brick corners intact to maintain stability of the side walls.
I got up on the roof & it didn't seem as if it was bowing or buckling. it had that shitty roll on tarpaper roof tho but that's a different matter. I went down into the basement to see if it was foundational but it all looked fine, there were no cracks or staircasing. it didn't look sunken in. but then i'm no structural engineer.
I was not aware of this 65% rule. I'm sure you've looked at the rest of the pictures and it's obviously not finished. so 124k would be where i'd want to be at or less when it's all said and done.
I really appreciate ya'lls help. seems like there is a lot of potential in st louis, if you can avoid the rotten buildings & spooky neighbors
Yea, but just remember the 65% is if you're going to resell it. I would definitely plan to keep a home like this as an income producer, though provided that you can get it cheap enough. This definitely looks like one of the areas that I regularly work so reselling will likely be harder to do. Also, are you planning to do a BRRR or hard money on this? Or will you be able to fund it all yourself? Been thinking more about it and maybe even 40k may be too much, but that's just me trying to risk mitigate.
They didnt know how to make spirit levels 140 years ago and bricking to a bob is a pain in the hole.
Probably been like that since it was built. No cracks? Ain't broke, dont try to fix it.
A bulge out might have been a cause for concern, dished much less so.
run (do not walk) away