How is this not the best CQB gun on the market? >incredibly short OAL

How is this not the best CQB gun on the market?

>incredibly short OAL
>can fold stock so even shorter than any SBR AR
>uses 762x39 so not as ballistically gimped from SBR
>if you still prefer 556 can get in that as well
>completely ambi
>uses a piston instead of DI
>cheaper than most "gucci" tier ARs

This is the best CQB weapon on the market in the current year.

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because it’s Czechshit. Nothing can too a 10.5 AR with 77grn OTM.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >tfw will never have a full auto subgun for a bag weapon
    I HATE THE NFA

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      FRTs are close enough and will be coming back after we get a ruling like the recent bumpstock ruling. It's coming. I'm sure enough that I'm considering selling my transferable SMGs.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because perfection already exists

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I hate sig so much it’s fucking unreal.

      >inb4 poorfag

      Their QC is horrendous, the finish on all of their guns is shit amd the guns just “feel” cheap. All while they act as though they’re top tier in terms of quality.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >posting pics of guns that aren’t yours.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They're just so fucking overpriced. It's like glock quality (average) for 4x glock price

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sig also wins CQC though.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The only sig that wins shit is Swiss sig. fuck Exeter ( and to a much lesser extent west German) sig.

          https://i.imgur.com/rpUTCSw.jpg

          >Ideal close quarters
          >Bren
          Why? If you want to go Czech you have pic related, but there are other good options.

          Scorpion is shit. Mp5 is the undisputed king of anything. 9mm. However in modern times there’s no need to gimp yourself with 9mm. (Mp5 is still great).

          Seriously dude. And what's the supposed advantages? Weight? Shaving off like 2 ounces for all that sacrifice with accuracy? Whoever made pencil barrels can eat shit.

          You’ve never shot an M16A1. Pencil barrels are great in the right context.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pencil barrels work better with 5.56 or 5.45, not 7.62

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >762
              wot about 308

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >gun
            😐
            >gun, europe
            :O

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You sound like a complete fucking shill uneducated gay in every way. Cz is shit? Pencil barrel is great? Dude go fuck yourself.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Pencil barrels are great. Give one reason why they aren’t.

              >inb4 accuracy

              You’re shooting wothin 100 yards so it’ll be fine.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Pencil barrel is great?
              They are in the right context. You sound angry and uninformed. Why do you think they are so bad?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Pencil barrels are great when not shooting.
                And they lighten up the gun.
                Somehow the bren 2 has a Benchley barrel and a polymer receiver and is still like 9.6 lbs empty

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >9.6 lbs empty

                Where the fuck are you guys getting this shit? Mine is like 7lbs loaded.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The 16" barrel version on their sight without mag says 3.78 KG +/- .5kg
                That is 8.3 lbs, +/- a pound.
                That's the 7.62x51 version, because as anonymous said, the x39 and 5.56 civilian versions were discontinued.
                The 11" barrel x39 according to them without mag is 6.4 lbs.
                6.4lbs for an SBR with a pencil barrel, polymer lower, polymer stock.
                What the fuck? Lmao

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >civilian versions were discontinued
                You guys keep saying this, but I can still find their SKUs. Where did you hear that they are discontinuing them in 2023 that isn't Arfcom or some dipshit on reddit who's uncle works at CZ?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                moron they don't have any options on their website for x39 or 5.56 in a non SBR version.
                And they never imported the x51 version I'm the first place.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >moron they don't have any options on their website for x39 or 5.56 in a non SBR version.
                > Non-sbr version
                Anon, are you not from the US? The import of semi-auto rifles into the country is banned, unless they come in as a pistol. That's how JDI used to get Sig 550s in country.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >x39 and 5.56 civillian legal versions discontinued
                And they never imported the x51
                The gun is essentially LEO/Europe only, and it is a giant piece of shit, why are we discussing it?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You can leave threads that you don't like, anon. You know it's not illegal, right?

                I think the lady doth protest too much.

            • 3 weeks ago
              BigC

              you sound angry, cz is shit and pencil barrels are really nice to wield

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Even if the rest of the gun is 8lbs bare?

              • 3 weeks ago
                BigC

                >it's already heavy so lets make it worse
                uh

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >it's already heavy so lets make it worse
                uh

                >it's already heavy so lets make it worse
                uh

                No1 wants u here dog rapist

              • 3 weeks ago
                BigC

                ok, so do something about it?
                wait, you can't lol
                seethe

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You only like pencil barrels because you have a pencil dick

              • 3 weeks ago
                BigC

                my dick is pretty well sized, and it's uncut
                feels good man

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Depends on how small you need to go. If you're going to have one as a back up/for tight spaces, the little 2lb ones make a certain amount of sense.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Unfortunately, some of the cool ones seem to have been in development forever. There are a few with P90 style mags that get very small, are very light, can defeat soft armor, and have 30-50 rounds.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That mag only looks slightly longer than a traditional in-grip mag. P90 style mags only really work because they follow the length of the gun for space efficiency and 5-6" isn't a ton of length especially when you have to make the gun significantly taller. If anything, that design is hurt by the P90 style mag.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That might be the wrong mock up for what I was thinking of. It was some Italian company. Idea was a fully automatic weapon that could fit in a small handgun holster.

                I just think they look cool. Probably isn't too many reasons you'd need something that small.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Gotta bullup your pistols for maximum cool.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Probably isn't too many reasons you'd need something that small.
                Maybe not "handgun" small, but you could make an incredibly effective PDW that functionally replaces a handgun using that concept. Make it ~14" OAL and attach the butt plate directly to the back of the gun like current bullpups. Add a VFG and an optic and you've got a fantastic PDW that can fit under a jacket or even sit in a hip holster.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              What's the top setup?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When the literal openly gnomish guns cost less you know somethings up

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Its just like larue tac. Junky AR all while trying to be “dead center precision”

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        FN having all their mil contracts is fishy but ultimately a non-issue because they know how to build killing implements.
        on the other hand, sig getting these contracts is criminal, literally.
        they're getting sued right now because the p320 will randomly go off while holstered, i think it even killed a guy.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Anon zogbots are nine times out of ten the lowest common denominators in society just like all other government employees. It's more likely they are just retards who are shooting themselves and blaming it on Sig than there actually being a problem with the P320 in the current year. LEOs should use P320s with manual safeties just like the military mandates it for all their enlisted tards.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What about the BRN-180 upper in 7.62x39?

  4. 3 weeks ago
    ALL FIELDS

    Because throwing bricks will always be cheaper, easier, and more fun.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >pencil barrels
    >plastic Lowe that shears from the upper
    >still weighs 8lbs unloaded
    >discontinued

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Did they actually discontinue that model?

      They are notoriously shit
      >b-but one French police force has 3 of them they never use

      Mine works fine.

      >posting pics of guns that aren’t yours.

      Cope

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I can't remeber if they fully discontinued it, or just stopped imports to the US.
        Either way you won't be able to get them anymore.
        CZ discontinued and/or sopped the importing if something like 95% of their products.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I do think it’s stupid at how much if their shit CZ discontinues. I don’t Understand what they are thinking by doing that. I also hope they bring the Bren PPS or whatever the fuck they’re calling it into the country. Legitimately I prefer the Bren 2 over the scar 16s anyday.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are a failing company that has only been propped up as long as it has by communist dogma of a state sponsored arms company

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Holy fuck what kinda Bubba is that on the bottom?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          French bubba? Or what is known as frf2

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Bubba
          My guy...

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Fuck dude. My illiterate ass thought it was a mas36 in some word configuration. How is it?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not bubba’d. Just French. Arguably worse

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Bro fucking pencil barrels. Who the fuk idea was that? Literally the worst profile ever. Also, the fact they haven't perfected it yet irks me. Especially for the money.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Especially in 7.62, super shit with pencil barrels.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Seriously dude. And what's the supposed advantages? Weight? Shaving off like 2 ounces for all that sacrifice with accuracy? Whoever made pencil barrels can eat shit.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >all that sacrifice with accuracy
            Pencil barrels don’t sacrifice accuracy. Or shouldn’t if made to the same standard. They do heat up quicker which then can throw shots. Usually that doesn’t matter

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wow, none of this is accurate.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Wow, it is, the bren 2 is a fucking joke.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wrongo. Well, the pencil barrel is accurate. Congrats. But the lower does not shear off (that's an issues with the first gen 805's) and it's about 6.5 lbs loaded. Are you confusing it with the full-length carbine version? And feel free to let us know where you heard it was discontinued, because there's zero info about that anywhere.

          Next time you open your mouth, be sure you know wtf you're talking about ok?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The lower of the new bren 2s have broken off just upon field stripping, there's even it happening randomly on YouTube videos.
            Super fucking garbage

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are notoriously shit
    >b-but one French police force has 3 of them they never use

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a plastic fantastic POS, if you walk by a stove it will melt. If you get cryogenically frozen it will structurally break down by the time you get thawed. Real STEEL is the way to go. VZ58 has good features for CQB. Big open bolt so you can see immediately when it locks back, bolt release & ambi safety can be added for quicker maneuvers, no booster needed on the 11.9" barrel model due to the shorter gas system, smoke mags are now the standard for quick ammo checks, and STEEL so you can use it as a club.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i thought they were cool, but i vaguely remember that the configuration they brough to the states wasn't the same as the gign version which is the only one i wanted to get

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >7.62x39 Bren
    Do the lowers still disintegrate and the bolts shear extractors?

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It’s doing a great job killing vatmorons in Ukraine.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    x39 is always going to be gimped because it doesn't do any magical physics damage upon entry

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Ideal close quarters
    >Bren
    Why? If you want to go Czech you have pic related, but there are other good options.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What about the CMMG Dissent? Is good yes?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is expensive, yes. Considering the price over the host of other bufferless AR uppers out there now it seems like a tough sell unless 5.7x28 specifically is your jam. No idea if is good, but CMMG tends to put our quality products.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No cmmg QC has gone downhill big time in the last few years and also their handguards are dogshit ugly

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >proprietary mags
    so close, but in the end, it doesn't even matter

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That only applies to the 7.62x39 model, I want the stanag one

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >"best CQB gun on the market"
    >exclusively lists selling points over the AR-15
    The AR isn't the best CQB gun. It's just the best value. A good old fashioned MP5 is a better contender for HD, but at $30k, it's not exactly a viable choice.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. There is a reason people who train to just do CQC, hostage rescue, raids, etc. still use SMGs, (or PDWs if you want to call them that now).

      Lighter, significantly less recoil which is a major benefit in a context where automatic fire will be used often, still plenty of range for many situations (how many 300-400 foot hallways do you see outside the Pentagon or a big factory?)

      Noise is key. You want to be able to hear someone waiting in ambush. SBRs are much louder than suppressed SMGs. Ammunition is lighter. Less over pen.

      The main problem with SMGs/PDWs is:
      >Not the best on the civilian market because the whole point of the weapon is select fire and it's much more limited as SA.
      >Getting through body armor, if you're using 9mm especially

      But this is less of an issue as body armor advances and also stops 5.56mm. I've never seen a study where 5.56mm causes significant levels of BABT commonly, you have to get to shooting pigs with .30-06 at a few inches out of a 22 inch test barrel before non-penetrating rounds kill a solid majority of them from pressure waves. I don't think anyone thinks the HCAR is a go-to door kicking weapon because of this though.

      Some new Gucci cartridges, like 6.8mm polymer cases that fire 4mm tungsten sabot's get through armor quite well while fitting in SMGs. The newer PDW SMGs can generally at least get through some armor too. I think SMGs will stick around in a niche role as cartridges advance to deal with armor. Especially for the US if they are using 6.8mm standard in rifles. They've awarded two SMG contracts recently, although not for big orders, the APC and SIG Rattler.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So on your RDO away from APG you post on /k?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You made some good points so I don’t want to completely shit on you. Noise is a big thing. Size is another factor too. Mk18s go through doors easily and point naturally but sub guns are still faster. Full auto is not used in cqc. You use semi and shoot the threat until it is no longer. Irl isn’t Tarkov or cod. Ricochets, collateral damage, and minimizing ammo usage when you may have to fight to the objective and off of it are a thing. That is why the mp7 was dropped. Even back when mp5 a were used a lot you weren’t holding the trigger down, you used 2-4 round bursts to the face or semi auto. Pistol rounds are also less dangerous when ricocheting than rifle rounds. In one of the very few tactical situations I was in I had to take shots at a gunman taking cover behind a van and shot his legs with a .40 UMP. A few rounds did ricochet off the ground but did not penetrate the building behind, the projectiles were on the ground having hit the brick wall of the structure

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    how do you operate that mawl? lefty I guess? very strange choice of lam for that gun

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I bought that exact gun only braced rather than SBR.

    It was truly excellent. However, after 3 months of looking to buy a 3rd magazine and not being able to find one anywhere at any price, I ditched it.

    Proprietary magazines suck.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You’re talking about 7.62x39 magazines right? I want the 556 one because I have a shit ton of AR15 mags

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes true but in terms of short barrel cqc use that OP mentioned, 7.62 is superior.

        As an aside, the 5.56 lower is identical but uses a sleeve to shrink the magwell for standard AR mags. You can put that sleeve in the 7.62 version and use 7.62 AR mags. They work wuth the same reliability as in a 7.62*39 AR but I was never happy with that solution.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    actually this is the best CQB rifle and it's put in more hours than any other

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I would say they're not relevant since they're in a desert and fielded in brown people conflicts but what really kills your point about those being good cqc guns is that we have little real combat data since they mostly just use those to shoot civilians

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        shooting dirty civilians is what every war is like for a modern military, that's overmatch.
        micro tavor stays cqb king whether you like it or not, just like trijicon and elcan stay combat optic kings

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          bullpup isnt the king of anything.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I see more videos of garden gnome police (et al) using AR's than I do Tavors?

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You guys assuming you want 7.62 Soviet for your die-in-a-house rifle should go run some splits on targets with a 5.56/5.45 gun vs 7.62, at least 3-4 rounds in A zone. You may find that the extra few inches of barrel on a 11.5" gun are worth it.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >5.56 rifle is 7.5lb without mag
    >polymer lower notorious for breaking
    >shitty pencil barrel
    >all for the low low price of $2200

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The 16 inch U.S. import version uses a heavy profile barrel and is around 8 lbs. The 14 inch pistol import version uses a pencil barrel and is around 6-7 lbs.

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >guccifag cqb larper
    >knows nothing about ballistics
    checks out

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >everything i know about guns and gunfighting comes from the kenosha riot

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That pic has nothing to do with ballistics. The 7.62x39 wounds being shit comes from the M43 projectile being just FMJ ball. Yugo M67, Russian 8M3, and commercial hunting/defensive bullets are more deadly.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >sub-$2k gun
      >gucci

      fucking poors.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because the ones CZ sells in America are monstrously overgassed and have a different "modular" handguard that has to be immediately replaced if you want more than, like, one MLOK slot per side

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