>We have many people on /k/ suggesting US would nuke China and kill billion+ people easily.
In response to hypothetical scenarios where China has engaged in nuclear warfare against America as a chimp-out reaction to America helping Taiwan against Chinese aggression.
>China has engaged in nuclear warfare
China wouldn't be able to feed its citizens if they started a conventional war with the US, and a nuclear war with the US erases China out right. The nuclear war fantasy threads are rural zoomer idiots getting hyped by troll-bots.
Discussing the prospect of a Chinese war of aggression with wumao typically goes like this: >wumao: china stlong, will use missiles to destloy amelican ships! >sane person: in that case America will fall back and blockade China to starve out its industry & food imports and generate civil unrest in order to force the government to capitulate >wumao: china nevel back down, china stlong, china will nuke amelica!!! >sane person: that ends with China being destroyed by America's massive nuclear arsenal. >wumao: wtf amelica would use nukes??? amelicans so bloodthilsty and balbalic!!!!
Ching-chongs can't conceive a situation where China accepts defeat and backs down even though China is so spineless, the phrase "China's final warning" has become synonymous with an empty threat.
This tbqh, decapitation strikes on the leaders and pretty soon China will progress to the other half of its natural life cycle, the warlord era.
This sounds like a better idea. Rather then killing a ton of Chinks who don't really want to fight us, we should just merc the CCP and its loyalists.
How would such a strike on CCP leaders be dealt? I'm assuming maximum level security, probably equal to the level of protection on the US president. I doubt any kind of spy or assassin could get close enough. So the only options I see are some super secret high tech drone or other technology we don't know about, or the slim possiblity of turning one of his inner circle against him.
They locked down Boston for those 2 idiots. But that was basically with cooperation of the citizens.
And that was more law enforcement than armed forces.
I'm sure the US could if they absolutely wanted to but it would be a shitstorm in every way.
All that said, there's just no reason to. I think most major cities are with our allies. That basically just leaves China. To be quite honest, there is absolutely no reason to occupy any city in China, firebombing or nuking them would actually be an improvement if you've paid attention to their issues. They're not going to do shit because their own country is constantly on the verge of collapsing, very literally.
He is talking about the Boston Marathon bombers. They locked down the city. Went street to street and house to house looking for them until they gave themselves away trying to run.
The us military, when the rubber meets the road, dos whatever the frick it wants to do. It’s been demonstrated again SMS again that America killed more civilians in every recent conflict than even China, Israel or fricking Egypt. But then they make a gazillion movies about how sad it made their snipers feel. The snipers still get a multimillion dollar book deal and photoshoot with the President
>It’s been demonstrated again SMS again that America killed more civilians in every recent conflict than even China
Well it probably helps that China hasn't even been in any wars since 'Nam
That kind of ignores that China hasn't been in any real war since the 60's, but the US military is engaged in every conflict zone in the world. I'm pretty sure if you replaced all the American troops with Chinese or Russians, the warcrime ticker would spike significantly.
if they surrender without a fight, then power, food, water come back
city management knows just how reliant cities are on constant in-and-out traffic, something like a garbage man strike can bring the city to a standstill
This is just written as a vague outline. Any detailed plan would require a particular city to be named, and thus its factors on an invasion (I.e is it on a river/the sea, what's the climate, population, etc)
Allow them to leave. Less collateral damage and potential guerillas when the time comes to eventually take the city.
Cut electricity, cut water, cut food, cut everything.
Drop leaflets and send radio/tv transmissions that tell civilians and surrendering combatants of designated evacuation points. (Anyone leaving the city by any other avenue will be assumed to be the enemy, and dealt with accordingly). Tell them they have x amount of time to leave before offensive actions begin.
Said evacuation points will of course be heavily secured to ensure that no evacuees are enemy combatants trying to infiltrate. But then again, it's good press if a bunch of "freedom fighters" attack a designated evacuation point and cut down a bunch of civilians in the crossfire
Make sure the TV cameras get lots of nice pretty shots of your soldiers helping the refugees. Make sure these make their way to those inside the sieged city.
Once your grace period for refugees expires, a protracted bombing campaign should ensue
Bridges. Railways, Highways. Rivers/Canals (How would you block one of those? Airdrop sea mines?)
Ensure that some of these routes do, however, remain intact, and monitorable. Desperate people are clever, and it wouldn't do for the enemy to create many new supply routes, which we will not have any knowledge of. By keeping a few known, their movements can be monitored and strategy predicted. We can assume a greater pressure will be kept on pre-war supply routes due to their superior pre-war construction, and thus when the time comes to destroy them, the enemy will feel their loss all the more. The remaining ones should be somewhat obscure, so the enemy commanders could realistically conceive you overlooked them, and thus not suspect your ploy.
Why do you want to take the city? To secure a logistics node, or knock out a command and control centre or military base? Or to kill tens of thousands of civilians?
If you are interested in military targets let the civilians go, perhaps herding them onto routes of the city that would impede enemy forces trying to reinforce it.
The thing is what you imagine is that people can hold out in the skyscrapers or they'll be some epic block by block clash, but the reality is that these cities are entirely dependent on industrial sized water treatment plants and continent wide logistics to supply food; and in less than three days the city is nothing but a giant concrete desert. There's absolutely nothing of value to fight for within cities themselves as well. Major roads and rail networks would be the real target, as well as harbors and airports. But cities themselves? Why bother.
Cities can be defensive strongpoints, as demonstrated by every war ever fought in human history.
Stalingrad and Berlin were pretty close to battles being fought in "mega" cities, although if we're specifically wondering about how people would use skyscrapers in a combat zone: they wouldn't. They are gigantic targets that the entire area of operations can easily engage from anywhere. If anyone started shooting down from a skyscraper, they would be shot at by essentially every available weapon in the area assuming they are identified and acquired. And if you're in one, unless you're shooting at very distant targets, you're basically going to die because there's no way out.
They might be used as places to spot for artillery etc, but drones can do that infinitely safer.
why are americans think china will nuke them
china does not even think of america and policy has said to only release the nukes if another country nuke china first
encircle it then cut supply lanes, power, water, ect. Give the civilians a chance to leave, then map out sectors of the city and walk in infantry to clear sectors day by day with the support of air and artillery units. Only really got to worry about the vast sewer systems which should have all exits cut off during the encirclement.
Modern cities have massive populations but relatively small stockpiles of food, water and medicine. Cutting off the water, electricity, internet and the influx of basic supplies would very quickly bring the place to its knees
>muh optics
Why is it better to flatten a city with nukes killing millions instead of starving them for a few weeks and maybe killing a few thousand? Plus leaving the city intact means its actually useful to you in the war rather than being left with a pile of highly radioactive rubble. Nukes are the ultimate low iq weapon.
Sure its possible. Accept you have to do an Aleppo. Surround it like Falluja then order every civilian to leave by X date after which bombardment begins.
Then cut off all water, power and logistics and start strategic bombing. Fab many (explosive are cheap) large fuel-air explosive, conventional and deep penetrating bombs then destroy everything above ground. Do not be lured into urban combat. Destroy the city over time and in detail. Incendiaries are legal against enemy troops so major shake and bake missions are on the table. While the enemy can still hide he can be left to starve in the wreckage. Eventually he'll have to come out.
There is no legal way to take a popularly defended city with a resisting public. Should you be confronted with that problem just cut it off and starve them out.
No one has seen serious urban bombardment since the Korean war when the FEAF ran out of targets. Everything since has been skirmishes with feeble air forces restrained by LOAC and moral cowardice.
Destroy its ability to function in its intended role. Strategically target services and business structures, food distribution centers, roadways.
You don't need to bomb every square block, you just need to destroy the parts that make people want to live in the city to begin with/give it military importance.
pre-position glowBlack folk in the city so that they can control or kill the municipal leadership. city drones just do whatever the government people tell them to do
>Sumy.jpg
The defenders of Sumy don't get talked enough about imo. Those lads were mostly just TDF volunteers right next to the fricking border, and they still defended their town with very little AFU support (which was naturally more focused on Kyiv and Kharkiv).
The plan was that FSB bribed officials take to the streets to lead a popular uprising in support of the invasion. They essentially expected Ukrainians to roll over without a fight.
How do you clear a small town of 10k people? No seriously, urban warfare was always a mystery to me >go to house >see only civilians >turns out they were hiding guns in their attic >get shot in the back as you leave
>Wait til late at night >Cut power >Kill any forms of communication(cell towers, EMP, etc.) >Start setting homes on fire by spreading flammable liquid, preferably from a distance without making a sound >Spread flammable liquid around all but 1 exit, leaving at least 1 side/exit completely safe from flames >Wait for any occupants to leave through the safe side/exit and ambush them with armed gunmen hiding out >Sync with your unit and do this in masses
This requires that you have more solders on your side to pull this off in masses. Seriously, oldest trick in history. Even fricking gang banging Black folk in the 80's did this shit. How the frick you can't figure this shit out?
>very dense and very vertical >tons of waterways and islands >thousands of miles of sewers, subways, and other traversable tunnels >metro population somewhere between taiwan and australia
nyc looks like hell to take
It would be hell, like Leningrad but worse. It's impossible to completely seal off a city, especially modern urban sprawls. You can bomb it, but the enemy just fights among ruins. Sewers and underground pathways criss-cross modern cities like ant hives, making it possible to move whole companies of troops without enemy recon picking them up. Supplies can be dropped, flown or just driven into the city and spread out into innumerable caches among the cityscape. Field hospitals can be set up in underground car parks or other halls, water can be pulled from groundwater or other natural sources and should things draw out, even ad-hoc greenhouses can be constructed to help with food security.
Is it possible? Yes. Will it be difficult? Absolutely.
Just blow up the rail lines and mine the roads.
In two days the citizens have looted their own stores, in a week people start starving, hit the power and poison the water.
There's no objective in a city, there's nothing you actually want so you may as well spend several months shelling it for fun
You only have to root out the enemy military and take over the civilian administration.
Or are you suggesting the citizenry would come out in massive guerilla resistance?
Wh40k way
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Siege_of_Derondii >Krieg soldiers deployed in the towering mountains that overlook the primary Hive. Several artillery and siege companies begin to bombard the city spires and both rebels and inhabitants were mercilessly gunned down as they tred to break out from the besieged city. After five years of relentless shelling, the rebels offered their unconditional surrender to the Imperium; they were ignored, and the shelling continued for another five years. All signs of life in the hive ceased after just three, but the bombardment still continued for another two years.
>Drop bombs to take of the roof of buildings >Drop incendiary bombs to burn down the city >Drop timed bombs that only go off after a frw hours to kill firefighters and disrupt the rescue effort >no city no problem
Worked against Germany, will probably work in modern times aswell.
Special Forces organically infiltrate into the target city individually, each on their own solo insertion mission over two seasons: recon season, followed by planting season. SF plant their packages throughout the Megacity. Each package contains a tiny little "nuclear battery" to produce steady and continuous power, allowing each package to constantly watch (cameras) and listen (microphones) to it's immediate surroundings, maintain wireless meshwork network connectivity with all other packages & HQ. Each package contains a two-way public address speaker array, a burning laser, a simple paintgun to spray certain targets with trackable radioactive dye, a small subsonic .22 with automated feed clearing, and, huh huh, nerve gas sprayers (for extended area denial), and four bombs: a fragmentary bomb, a pyroclastic incindiary bomb, a shaped charged, and a nuclear bomb; the package is protected against some of the bombs (partially due to their placement, like Claymore antipersonnel mines), but not the nuclear bomb.
Okay. Now the the packages all hack everyones' cellphones. At some point, once every device that's ever been "sniffed" long enough by several packages has had a certain hidden program secretly installed, that app reboots the phone to a locked screen, playing a synchronized audio stream of music and showing a video of a hushed theater, a view from behind the seats in a central balcony of the stage, a closed curtain subtly lit by dim stagelights.
This happens all of a sudden one day. There's a message broadcast when the music stops and a figure emerges from behind the curtains to applause....
I'll not tell you the message here, my friends; it would take too many characters to appropriately explain it and all exigencies relevant thereto here.
So, that's the first step... well, leading up to it had been a half-step: in addition to installing Packages, the Special Forces Operators also work as marketing street teams posting graffiti & billboards.
Now that you've got everyone's attention with a simultaneously premiered viral video with ten million watches in the first ten minutes and a billion watches twenty four hours later, everyone's EXCITED! How fricking EXCITING everything gets! All of a sudden, there's lots of EXCITEMENT! Some of this is due to one of the packages becoming EXCITATIATED by some idiot poking carelessly around the case's anti-tamper sensors -- *BOOM!* -- or actually -- *PUFF!* -- as the nerve gas or whatever anti-tamper defensive weapon the computer selects goes off. How do you like ~~*Them*~~ Apples(TM)? Yeah: every package is emblazoned with an Apple technology company logo. Yeah. Confuse and misdirect, infuriate everyone against all. Be smug. Troll smugly. This is the way -- or part thereof -- of waging war in a Megacity. Look, child, out over the mighty concrete canyons from high up inside this glass & steel spire. Sight the people in with your rifle sights. The ones below, down on the street. The ones in the windows across the street. Look away across town, uptown and downtown; how far from here do you think you can accurately place your shots? It doesn't matter how many thousands a virtuoso lays low, now how few -- none, likely -- the press-ganged, untrained, unsuited "soldier" (drafted) drops; bullets are inefficient, because it takes more than one (or only one, if you're lucky) to kill an enemy... you want a weapon which kills many, but may be deployed from a secret position of safety, which the weaponeer easily departs along hidden routes to shake any possible trackers, long before the weapon takes effect all at once.
LSD in the water supply is an excellent idea... for fun & disruption of urban norms... sorta... you see, if you just dose out the entire municipal population by dosing the entire watershed and water supply at midnight, everyone's morning coffee and brushing their teeth will be followed an hour after by TRIPPING FACE AT WORK OR SCHOOL OR)...
Oh, no, but I must! I simply insist on finishing what I've -- what you've -- what we've -- what ~~*They've*~~ started! After all, it wouldn't be very appealing to the intended audience (hello, there) for the continuation to completion of this narrative! So, without furtherdo, let us continue.
NEW YORK CITY
2038
It's been two years since the last Presidential Election was supposed to occur... but didn't; the sitting POTUS -- of dubious legitimacy due to an obviously rigged election after a highly divisive campaign rife with partisan conflict -- had simply suspended the elections under Emergency Executive Powers after declaring the most crazy false flag emergency of all time: a bogus "Alien Invasion" complete with "alien death rays" (in reality government black project weapons like MARAUDER & [REDACTED]); blow up a building with a laser somewhere, blitz the media, blow up a few more buildings, maybe some boats, trains, aircraft, automobiles, blitz the media some more. The sheep gobble it up, unquestioningly, no matter how insane it would sound if they did not have it delivered to them with the correct authority & tone. DO THIS. NEVER DO THAT. BE GOOD AND WE WILL CELEBRATE YOU ON TELEVISION IF YOU ARE ALSO LUCKY ENOUGH TO BECOME A HERO. DO NOT BECOME ONE OF THE DISGUSTING VILLAINS WE ALWAYS CATCH IN THE END. ...and a million more lies. *sighs* Eyes are getting tired, even though it's only four in the afternoon... who wants to take over?
Oh, yeah: BOOM! Another package detonates, killing hundreds in a crowded center. Another message is simulcast to every compromised phone and device that's ever visited this city:
>[message_redacted]
It's quite a spicy message; too hot to handle here. Listen, we can finish this elsewhere; the fourth channel is just... let's just say it goes without saying that it glows a little. *Ahem!* Any one of us -- any of us -- him or her or they or them or definitely [redacted] or you or I could b filthy GLOWBlack folk!
Blockade all lanes of traffic in and out and let the people starve out or eat themselves.
What the frick are you on about Black person? I'm one of those guys who believe that three-letter agencies have a ludicrous amount of ability and tech to pull off crazy shit and stamp out resistance before it starts. But this package bullshit you're going on about is just a fricking mess. You want to include so much god danm shit that these packages would have to be the size of UPS delivery vans! They'd stick out like a sore thumb, especially with spraying radioactive dye! And you want to build potentially dozens of them across a city? Stop reading your uncle's tom clancy books, stop reading your sister's teen dystopian fiction novels, and stop thinking that V for Vendetta and the Dark Knight are movies celebrating your fricking 'harm people ' myopic viewpoints. And start doing some god danm studying on why you need humans, and not loitering weapons, to actually hold control of roads and intersections. How the frick did you even end up on this board?
Imagine if this wasnt a controlled demo, and was all over.
No clue how you move through that, hit a couple of the tall bad larrys, and go around, I guess.
One piece at a time with lots and lots of artillery, youre gonna need it, most mega cities have armies of spies with military training and unlicensed military weapons. Its gonna look like BF 2042, youre gonna see gymrats turn into samfishers and solid snakes, and baristas turn into snipers, life in a mega city is way more well armed than you would think. its waht all these video games with operators who wear cool gym wear and hypebeast clothing are about.
>How do you take a megacity in modern war?
firebombing and starvation, theres not much value in capturing it because the region is far more dependent on the area outside of it than the outlying lands are reliant on the city, so and half assed bombing campaign and blockade will turn the city into a wasteland, until it surrenders
I mean what's even the point of taking them, if the enemy is there it's a death trap without much to give back if you capture it bar an entrenched position filled with annoyed civillians that can make your life hell.
Turn it into a parking lot and use the rubble to fill hescos.
You bypass it if you can, encircle it if you can't.
Starve it? Shutdown electricity? Grind it?
I don't think the US Military would do this, they are too concerned with optics
We have many people on /k/ suggesting US would nuke China and kill billion+ people easily.
Why wont they just nuke 1 city? Or why not just nuke top 1000 cities? We have the nukes.
>We have many people on /k/ suggesting US would nuke China and kill billion+ people easily.
In response to hypothetical scenarios where China has engaged in nuclear warfare against America as a chimp-out reaction to America helping Taiwan against Chinese aggression.
>China has engaged in nuclear warfare
China wouldn't be able to feed its citizens if they started a conventional war with the US, and a nuclear war with the US erases China out right. The nuclear war fantasy threads are rural zoomer idiots getting hyped by troll-bots.
Discussing the prospect of a Chinese war of aggression with wumao typically goes like this:
>wumao: china stlong, will use missiles to destloy amelican ships!
>sane person: in that case America will fall back and blockade China to starve out its industry & food imports and generate civil unrest in order to force the government to capitulate
>wumao: china nevel back down, china stlong, china will nuke amelica!!!
>sane person: that ends with China being destroyed by America's massive nuclear arsenal.
>wumao: wtf amelica would use nukes??? amelicans so bloodthilsty and balbalic!!!!
Ching-chongs can't conceive a situation where China accepts defeat and backs down even though China is so spineless, the phrase "China's final warning" has become synonymous with an empty threat.
Why do you say rural zoomers specifically? You some sort of city-slickin' homosexual? You some sort of urbanite nogunz?
Because ruralites are braindamaged, by virtue of their rural upbringing.
I don't even think nukes would be necessary to take China. Just kill one or two of the guys at the top and the whole thing collapses.
This tbqh, decapitation strikes on the leaders and pretty soon China will progress to the other half of its natural life cycle, the warlord era.
This sounds like a better idea. Rather then killing a ton of Chinks who don't really want to fight us, we should just merc the CCP and its loyalists.
How would such a strike on CCP leaders be dealt? I'm assuming maximum level security, probably equal to the level of protection on the US president. I doubt any kind of spy or assassin could get close enough. So the only options I see are some super secret high tech drone or other technology we don't know about, or the slim possiblity of turning one of his inner circle against him.
There's no serious response to this. Its all joke responses or moronic responses
the US military is all about avoiding as many innocent lives as possible
sandBlack folk and chinks aren't exactly innocent though so it don't count
That wouldn't do anything besides cause chaos + USA wants the bugmen's cheap stuff
Send a missile at the three gorges dam
What megacity does the US need to occupy?
>zoomer who was born after shock and awe
the cycle begins again
They locked down Boston for those 2 idiots. But that was basically with cooperation of the citizens.
And that was more law enforcement than armed forces.
I'm sure the US could if they absolutely wanted to but it would be a shitstorm in every way.
All that said, there's just no reason to. I think most major cities are with our allies. That basically just leaves China. To be quite honest, there is absolutely no reason to occupy any city in China, firebombing or nuking them would actually be an improvement if you've paid attention to their issues. They're not going to do shit because their own country is constantly on the verge of collapsing, very literally.
I assume this is what you're talking about.
He is talking about the Boston Marathon bombers. They locked down the city. Went street to street and house to house looking for them until they gave themselves away trying to run.
Iraq bro.
The us military, when the rubber meets the road, dos whatever the frick it wants to do. It’s been demonstrated again SMS again that America killed more civilians in every recent conflict than even China, Israel or fricking Egypt. But then they make a gazillion movies about how sad it made their snipers feel. The snipers still get a multimillion dollar book deal and photoshoot with the President
>It’s been demonstrated again SMS again that America killed more civilians in every recent conflict than even China
Well it probably helps that China hasn't even been in any wars since 'Nam
That kind of ignores that China hasn't been in any real war since the 60's, but the US military is engaged in every conflict zone in the world. I'm pretty sure if you replaced all the American troops with Chinese or Russians, the warcrime ticker would spike significantly.
>Grind it?
ah yes an impassable mountain of concrete, nice job genius
No water = no city
Nothing personal kiddo.
>cut water
>cut power
>cut supply lines
>wait like it's a medieval castle siege
What would you do with the millions of civilians attempting to leave?
>lol just shoot them or make them go back
no western army would do this
if they surrender without a fight, then power, food, water come back
city management knows just how reliant cities are on constant in-and-out traffic, something like a garbage man strike can bring the city to a standstill
simply threatening them with it is enough
Let them leave. In the hypothetical scenario the goal is taking the city, not subjugating the population
tell them to "encourage" the mayor and all armed forces inside the city to surrender
This is just written as a vague outline. Any detailed plan would require a particular city to be named, and thus its factors on an invasion (I.e is it on a river/the sea, what's the climate, population, etc)
Allow them to leave. Less collateral damage and potential guerillas when the time comes to eventually take the city.
Cut electricity, cut water, cut food, cut everything.
Drop leaflets and send radio/tv transmissions that tell civilians and surrendering combatants of designated evacuation points. (Anyone leaving the city by any other avenue will be assumed to be the enemy, and dealt with accordingly). Tell them they have x amount of time to leave before offensive actions begin.
Said evacuation points will of course be heavily secured to ensure that no evacuees are enemy combatants trying to infiltrate. But then again, it's good press if a bunch of "freedom fighters" attack a designated evacuation point and cut down a bunch of civilians in the crossfire
Make sure the TV cameras get lots of nice pretty shots of your soldiers helping the refugees. Make sure these make their way to those inside the sieged city.
Once your grace period for refugees expires, a protracted bombing campaign should ensue
Bridges. Railways, Highways. Rivers/Canals (How would you block one of those? Airdrop sea mines?)
Ensure that some of these routes do, however, remain intact, and monitorable. Desperate people are clever, and it wouldn't do for the enemy to create many new supply routes, which we will not have any knowledge of. By keeping a few known, their movements can be monitored and strategy predicted. We can assume a greater pressure will be kept on pre-war supply routes due to their superior pre-war construction, and thus when the time comes to destroy them, the enemy will feel their loss all the more. The remaining ones should be somewhat obscure, so the enemy commanders could realistically conceive you overlooked them, and thus not suspect your ploy.
Why do you want to take the city? To secure a logistics node, or knock out a command and control centre or military base? Or to kill tens of thousands of civilians?
If you are interested in military targets let the civilians go, perhaps herding them onto routes of the city that would impede enemy forces trying to reinforce it.
The thing is what you imagine is that people can hold out in the skyscrapers or they'll be some epic block by block clash, but the reality is that these cities are entirely dependent on industrial sized water treatment plants and continent wide logistics to supply food; and in less than three days the city is nothing but a giant concrete desert. There's absolutely nothing of value to fight for within cities themselves as well. Major roads and rail networks would be the real target, as well as harbors and airports. But cities themselves? Why bother.
Cities can be defensive strongpoints, as demonstrated by every war ever fought in human history.
Stalingrad and Berlin were pretty close to battles being fought in "mega" cities, although if we're specifically wondering about how people would use skyscrapers in a combat zone: they wouldn't. They are gigantic targets that the entire area of operations can easily engage from anywhere. If anyone started shooting down from a skyscraper, they would be shot at by essentially every available weapon in the area assuming they are identified and acquired. And if you're in one, unless you're shooting at very distant targets, you're basically going to die because there's no way out.
They might be used as places to spot for artillery etc, but drones can do that infinitely safer.
why are americans think china will nuke them
china does not even think of america and policy has said to only release the nukes if another country nuke china first
Because children.
>china does not even think of america
Japan said they wouldn't nuke America before Pearl Harbor happened, too.
>china does not even think of america
they see america as their main enemy moron
>china does not even think of america
dats rite gwailos
Das rite
Why does chink propaganda make the west look so badass and awesome?
What is wrong with that guy on the right's helmet?
It's AI
>laser-nipples
China says lots of shit and follows none of it. Their word is worthless.
How did the US take Baghdad in 2003?
You unironically cannot compare medium development urban sprawl with New York.
But... but I can? The same principles apply in every conceivable way.
Except for the fact that Baghdad didnt have a single building over 5 stories, sure.
Clearing an 85 story building under fire would be hell on earth. Ask the russians in Chechnya and those were far from megacities.
Where would the Green Zone equivalent be in NYC?
I’d assume where the UN is in Manhattan
They bribed the republican guard.
Drop leaflets to demoralize the locals ask them if it's worth to keep dying for a lost cause and a leadership that don't give a shit about them
encircle it then cut supply lanes, power, water, ect. Give the civilians a chance to leave, then map out sectors of the city and walk in infantry to clear sectors day by day with the support of air and artillery units. Only really got to worry about the vast sewer systems which should have all exits cut off during the encirclement.
Shrimple as really
>tfw pre 9/11 nyc is not coming back
>tfw pre 9/11 nyc is not coming back
pre 9/11 america is not coming back
Ik, but that wont stop me from complaining and dreaming about it
Buddy, that day was the bridge between the old world and the new
Siege.
Modern cities have massive populations but relatively small stockpiles of food, water and medicine. Cutting off the water, electricity, internet and the influx of basic supplies would very quickly bring the place to its knees
>muh optics
Why is it better to flatten a city with nukes killing millions instead of starving them for a few weeks and maybe killing a few thousand? Plus leaving the city intact means its actually useful to you in the war rather than being left with a pile of highly radioactive rubble. Nukes are the ultimate low iq weapon.
Sure its possible. Accept you have to do an Aleppo. Surround it like Falluja then order every civilian to leave by X date after which bombardment begins.
Then cut off all water, power and logistics and start strategic bombing. Fab many (explosive are cheap) large fuel-air explosive, conventional and deep penetrating bombs then destroy everything above ground. Do not be lured into urban combat. Destroy the city over time and in detail. Incendiaries are legal against enemy troops so major shake and bake missions are on the table. While the enemy can still hide he can be left to starve in the wreckage. Eventually he'll have to come out.
There is no legal way to take a popularly defended city with a resisting public. Should you be confronted with that problem just cut it off and starve them out.
No one has seen serious urban bombardment since the Korean war when the FEAF ran out of targets. Everything since has been skirmishes with feeble air forces restrained by LOAC and moral cowardice.
Destroy its ability to function in its intended role. Strategically target services and business structures, food distribution centers, roadways.
You don't need to bomb every square block, you just need to destroy the parts that make people want to live in the city to begin with/give it military importance.
pre-position glowBlack folk in the city so that they can control or kill the municipal leadership. city drones just do whatever the government people tell them to do
What was the Russian plan for Kyiv again? Not a New York tier megacity but it's one of the largest cities in Europe, bigger than Rome or Vienna.
>Russian plan for Kyiv again
Minor civil unrest and a great parade
>Sumy.jpg
The defenders of Sumy don't get talked enough about imo. Those lads were mostly just TDF volunteers right next to the fricking border, and they still defended their town with very little AFU support (which was naturally more focused on Kyiv and Kharkiv).
Tell me about them. Genuinely never heard of this before
I think they really expected Ukraine to roll over and surrender immediately without much resistance, they were sending in riot police for fricks sake.
Lightning strike before it could be entrenched followed by riot cops to control the population.
The plan was that FSB bribed officials take to the streets to lead a popular uprising in support of the invasion. They essentially expected Ukrainians to roll over without a fight.
Dont be fooled by tall buildings. You need to secure the first floor and starve anyone trapped above.
Yes.
Send in the Judges.
How do you clear a small town of 10k people? No seriously, urban warfare was always a mystery to me
>go to house
>see only civilians
>turns out they were hiding guns in their attic
>get shot in the back as you leave
Like pretty much what everyone said
>Wait til late at night
>Cut power
>Kill any forms of communication(cell towers, EMP, etc.)
>Start setting homes on fire by spreading flammable liquid, preferably from a distance without making a sound
>Spread flammable liquid around all but 1 exit, leaving at least 1 side/exit completely safe from flames
>Wait for any occupants to leave through the safe side/exit and ambush them with armed gunmen hiding out
>Sync with your unit and do this in masses
This requires that you have more solders on your side to pull this off in masses. Seriously, oldest trick in history. Even fricking gang banging Black folk in the 80's did this shit. How the frick you can't figure this shit out?
>very dense and very vertical
>tons of waterways and islands
>thousands of miles of sewers, subways, and other traversable tunnels
>metro population somewhere between taiwan and australia
nyc looks like hell to take
of miles of sewers, subways, and other traversable tunnels
Yeah people tend to not even mention those but they're a huge advantage for any partisans
Just close the entries and exits and the problem solves itself.
Sequel never ever
It would be hell, like Leningrad but worse. It's impossible to completely seal off a city, especially modern urban sprawls. You can bomb it, but the enemy just fights among ruins. Sewers and underground pathways criss-cross modern cities like ant hives, making it possible to move whole companies of troops without enemy recon picking them up. Supplies can be dropped, flown or just driven into the city and spread out into innumerable caches among the cityscape. Field hospitals can be set up in underground car parks or other halls, water can be pulled from groundwater or other natural sources and should things draw out, even ad-hoc greenhouses can be constructed to help with food security.
Is it possible? Yes. Will it be difficult? Absolutely.
https://date.army.gov.au/packages/urban-tactics-package
https://date.army.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-08/Enclosure%20Warfare%20-%20Olvanan%20Urban%20Doctrine%20v1.0.pdf
Seize utilities and communications, ports, airports. Don't fight over housing, fight for infrastructure.
>This thread
>Half a day before the battle of Moscow announcement
Holy shit dude
With Paper and Pen and Capitulation
GUESS WE'RE ABOUT TO FRICKING FIND OUT.
you just grozno or mariupol it down to the ground
Just blow up the rail lines and mine the roads.
In two days the citizens have looted their own stores, in a week people start starving, hit the power and poison the water.
There's no objective in a city, there's nothing you actually want so you may as well spend several months shelling it for fun
You only have to root out the enemy military and take over the civilian administration.
Or are you suggesting the citizenry would come out in massive guerilla resistance?
Wh40k way
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Siege_of_Derondii
>Krieg soldiers deployed in the towering mountains that overlook the primary Hive. Several artillery and siege companies begin to bombard the city spires and both rebels and inhabitants were mercilessly gunned down as they tred to break out from the besieged city. After five years of relentless shelling, the rebels offered their unconditional surrender to the Imperium; they were ignored, and the shelling continued for another five years. All signs of life in the hive ceased after just three, but the bombardment still continued for another two years.
Cuckner is about to show us how.
>Drop bombs to take of the roof of buildings
>Drop incendiary bombs to burn down the city
>Drop timed bombs that only go off after a frw hours to kill firefighters and disrupt the rescue effort
>no city no problem
Worked against Germany, will probably work in modern times aswell.
>How do you take a megacity in modern war?
We're about to find out
keeping this one
OP was Priggy all along? Damn man, I should've known
Good timing OP, we're about to see with Moscow. What a crazy 24 hours. Advanced units of Wagner just reached the official Moscow region.
You wait until they toss their whole military at another country.
Special Forces organically infiltrate into the target city individually, each on their own solo insertion mission over two seasons: recon season, followed by planting season. SF plant their packages throughout the Megacity. Each package contains a tiny little "nuclear battery" to produce steady and continuous power, allowing each package to constantly watch (cameras) and listen (microphones) to it's immediate surroundings, maintain wireless meshwork network connectivity with all other packages & HQ. Each package contains a two-way public address speaker array, a burning laser, a simple paintgun to spray certain targets with trackable radioactive dye, a small subsonic .22 with automated feed clearing, and, huh huh, nerve gas sprayers (for extended area denial), and four bombs: a fragmentary bomb, a pyroclastic incindiary bomb, a shaped charged, and a nuclear bomb; the package is protected against some of the bombs (partially due to their placement, like Claymore antipersonnel mines), but not the nuclear bomb.
Okay. Now the the packages all hack everyones' cellphones. At some point, once every device that's ever been "sniffed" long enough by several packages has had a certain hidden program secretly installed, that app reboots the phone to a locked screen, playing a synchronized audio stream of music and showing a video of a hushed theater, a view from behind the seats in a central balcony of the stage, a closed curtain subtly lit by dim stagelights.
This happens all of a sudden one day. There's a message broadcast when the music stops and a figure emerges from behind the curtains to applause....
I'll not tell you the message here, my friends; it would take too many characters to appropriately explain it and all exigencies relevant thereto here.
So, that's the first step... well, leading up to it had been a half-step: in addition to installing Packages, the Special Forces Operators also work as marketing street teams posting graffiti & billboards.
Now that you've got everyone's attention with a simultaneously premiered viral video with ten million watches in the first ten minutes and a billion watches twenty four hours later, everyone's EXCITED! How fricking EXCITING everything gets! All of a sudden, there's lots of EXCITEMENT! Some of this is due to one of the packages becoming EXCITATIATED by some idiot poking carelessly around the case's anti-tamper sensors -- *BOOM!* -- or actually -- *PUFF!* -- as the nerve gas or whatever anti-tamper defensive weapon the computer selects goes off. How do you like ~~*Them*~~ Apples(TM)? Yeah: every package is emblazoned with an Apple technology company logo. Yeah. Confuse and misdirect, infuriate everyone against all. Be smug. Troll smugly. This is the way -- or part thereof -- of waging war in a Megacity. Look, child, out over the mighty concrete canyons from high up inside this glass & steel spire. Sight the people in with your rifle sights. The ones below, down on the street. The ones in the windows across the street. Look away across town, uptown and downtown; how far from here do you think you can accurately place your shots? It doesn't matter how many thousands a virtuoso lays low, now how few -- none, likely -- the press-ganged, untrained, unsuited "soldier" (drafted) drops; bullets are inefficient, because it takes more than one (or only one, if you're lucky) to kill an enemy... you want a weapon which kills many, but may be deployed from a secret position of safety, which the weaponeer easily departs along hidden routes to shake any possible trackers, long before the weapon takes effect all at once.
LSD in the water supply is an excellent idea... for fun & disruption of urban norms... sorta... you see, if you just dose out the entire municipal population by dosing the entire watershed and water supply at midnight, everyone's morning coffee and brushing their teeth will be followed an hour after by TRIPPING FACE AT WORK OR SCHOOL OR)...
Please, don't bother finishing it
Oh, no, but I must! I simply insist on finishing what I've -- what you've -- what we've -- what ~~*They've*~~ started! After all, it wouldn't be very appealing to the intended audience (hello, there) for the continuation to completion of this narrative! So, without furtherdo, let us continue.
NEW YORK CITY
2038
It's been two years since the last Presidential Election was supposed to occur... but didn't; the sitting POTUS -- of dubious legitimacy due to an obviously rigged election after a highly divisive campaign rife with partisan conflict -- had simply suspended the elections under Emergency Executive Powers after declaring the most crazy false flag emergency of all time: a bogus "Alien Invasion" complete with "alien death rays" (in reality government black project weapons like MARAUDER & [REDACTED]); blow up a building with a laser somewhere, blitz the media, blow up a few more buildings, maybe some boats, trains, aircraft, automobiles, blitz the media some more. The sheep gobble it up, unquestioningly, no matter how insane it would sound if they did not have it delivered to them with the correct authority & tone. DO THIS. NEVER DO THAT. BE GOOD AND WE WILL CELEBRATE YOU ON TELEVISION IF YOU ARE ALSO LUCKY ENOUGH TO BECOME A HERO. DO NOT BECOME ONE OF THE DISGUSTING VILLAINS WE ALWAYS CATCH IN THE END. ...and a million more lies. *sighs* Eyes are getting tired, even though it's only four in the afternoon... who wants to take over?
Oh, yeah: BOOM! Another package detonates, killing hundreds in a crowded center. Another message is simulcast to every compromised phone and device that's ever visited this city:
>[message_redacted]
It's quite a spicy message; too hot to handle here. Listen, we can finish this elsewhere; the fourth channel is just... let's just say it goes without saying that it glows a little. *Ahem!* Any one of us -- any of us -- him or her or they or them or definitely [redacted] or you or I could b filthy GLOWBlack folk!
Blockade all lanes of traffic in and out and let the people starve out or eat themselves.
What the frick are you on about Black person? I'm one of those guys who believe that three-letter agencies have a ludicrous amount of ability and tech to pull off crazy shit and stamp out resistance before it starts. But this package bullshit you're going on about is just a fricking mess. You want to include so much god danm shit that these packages would have to be the size of UPS delivery vans! They'd stick out like a sore thumb, especially with spraying radioactive dye! And you want to build potentially dozens of them across a city? Stop reading your uncle's tom clancy books, stop reading your sister's teen dystopian fiction novels, and stop thinking that V for Vendetta and the Dark Knight are movies celebrating your fricking 'harm people ' myopic viewpoints. And start doing some god danm studying on why you need humans, and not loitering weapons, to actually hold control of roads and intersections. How the frick did you even end up on this board?
Imagine if this wasnt a controlled demo, and was all over.
No clue how you move through that, hit a couple of the tall bad larrys, and go around, I guess.
>a controlled demo
skyscrapers are designed to crumple downwards by design, anon.
>controlled demo
Your mind is infected.
Blow up the water treatment plants. Drown them in fetid shit water.
One piece at a time with lots and lots of artillery, youre gonna need it, most mega cities have armies of spies with military training and unlicensed military weapons. Its gonna look like BF 2042, youre gonna see gymrats turn into samfishers and solid snakes, and baristas turn into snipers, life in a mega city is way more well armed than you would think. its waht all these video games with operators who wear cool gym wear and hypebeast clothing are about.
>How do you take a megacity in modern war?
firebombing and starvation, theres not much value in capturing it because the region is far more dependent on the area outside of it than the outlying lands are reliant on the city, so and half assed bombing campaign and blockade will turn the city into a wasteland, until it surrenders
firebombing isn't as effective now that cities aren't 90% wood
I mean what's even the point of taking them, if the enemy is there it's a death trap without much to give back if you capture it bar an entrenched position filled with annoyed civillians that can make your life hell.
Why take it? Just cut off shipments of food into the city and wait for them to surrender.