How do you calculate where you shoot with a mortar?
>Propellant payload force
>Ammo weight
>Degree
>Wind strength
>Gravity
How do you put that together?
How do you calculate where you shoot with a mortar? >Propellant payload force. >Ammo weight. >Degree
you do elementary school math
"yep, that oughta do it"
literally ANA mortar troops
You ask your engineer brigade to sacrifice a goat for good luck
>Not reading the goat's entrails to divine the enemy's coordinates
ngmi
You just kind of wing it walking rounds around your target. If it's taking too long just wait for a hang fire and use it as an opportunity for direct fire.
The weapon has specifications for angle and range, the ballistic profile. It's a curve that changes depending on angle. It is standardized like the ammunition.
With these specifications, you can locate yourself and target points on a paper or digital map, or even with lasers and drones. And you can use a phone or computer to quickly get the angles needed to hit the target accurately. Back in the day, you worked it out on paper. You can still do that if you want, for whatever reason.
Same with long range shooting
Some people have journals of calculations to hone rifles for long shots
>Back in the day, you worked it out on paper.
In some cases, they had optics, so you could sight it in with a scope. That is still useful. There is also firing at large fortifications and armored targets, which can be done with irons. At that point, you are talking about grenades and rockets as well.
These are mounted like a telescope on the mortar, make it easier to aim on the spot.
am i moronic - how does one use optics for aiming indirect fire?
You have the optic set up in a way that adjusting the optic to the target both shows the range and adjusts the angle of the tube at the same time
You aim at a fixed point, usually a set of aiming stakes. The optic moves in relation to the tube, so the tube is facing whatever direction to the target but the reticle is always aimed at the aiming stakes. The optic can turn 6400 mils (360 degrees)
STFU nerd, nobody does that
>you worked it out on paper
you are still taught to do this in arty school both so you understand basic newtonian ballistics and in case your gizmos break. in practice you use a calculator (old fashioned) or a rangefinder+/-ELINT targeting data.
FYI Napoleon taught his gunners to do it their heads since they were illiterate
Yes exactly, you should be able to understand the math behind it, even if you use a device for calculation. Very dangerous equipment, and these days we even have computer guided munitions. Interesting Napoleon taught them to do it visually, optics also make it more intuitive. Cannons were the same thing really.
Even back in the day they weren't doing the math. They had printed out tables. The early computers were made to calculate these trajectories.
>pull out your android tablet
>open the fire support app
>click on the request you want to service
>all the math is done for you based on your GPS location
>point and shoot
the future is now old man
>tfw you accidentally put your own location as the target
>desperately try to call off the strike
>Installing Smasnug Updates 1/57...
>the supercomputer on your palm can perform like 2 billion calculations per second
>UI lags so badly that you accidentally hit "confirm" trying to swipe something out of the way
Frick bros, I'm excited for future warcrimes getting blamed on confusing UIs
>you're claiming that you blew up the kindergarten...because your phone screen was wet and started spazzing out?
Why
>YOU COULDN'T HANDLE THE RELIABILITY OF SIRI
Apple TV May 2024
You would have to point it straight upwards on yourself. Fortified targets of enemy combatants are one thing. But indiscriminate bombing of urban targets is a serious war crime. this seems to have been happening in Ukraine and Russia right now.
>you: aaaaaa help muh UI muh tech support
>me: whiz wheel goes bzz
A paper calculator and a optical sight are competitive if you know wtf you're doing. Electronics are faster for a battery of guns, or an amateur user, but if it's just one gun and you're a professional it's little different from bench rest shooting.
Based whiz wheel and plotting board appreciator. LWHMBCs suck batteries almost as fast as OP sucks dick
The Army is coming out with a mortars app for government issued smart phones. Soon everything will be an app.
OP, it also depends on if you are a gun with a separate FDC (fire direction center) or acting as your own FDC. If you a just a gun the FDC gives you the AZ/EL to point at, the type of round, the charge, the fuze setting, and the number of rounds. If you are acting as FDC, you get to figure it all out yourself.
Lol.
Got one right here.
That looks like a reasonable fire solution.
send it
Math.
Same with shooting firearms. The bullet just has a much more narrow trajectory, and uses kinetic force instead of large explosive munitions. Artillery has still killed many more infantry than small arms fire, with the exception of long range marksmen, who can often achieve confirmed kills in the triple digits. Much like tank crews, which is a form of mobile artillery.
Found this, would include quadcopter artillery drones now:
A report on the causative agents of battle casualties in World War II showed the comparative incidence of casualties from different types of weapons for several theaters. Compilers of the report believed that, while the more detailed subdivisions within their three major classes were open to question, their findings on the percent of total casualties due to small arms, artillery and mortars, and "miscellaneous" were reasonably accurate.
From these they drew the following conclusions:
1. Small arms fire accounted for between 14 and 31 percent of the total casualties, depending upon the theater of action:
The Mediterranean theater, 14.0 percent
The European theater, 23.4 percent
The Pacific theaters, 30.7 percent.
2. Artillery and mortar fire together accounted for 65 percent of the total casualties in the European and Mediterranean theaters, 64.0 and 69.1, respectively. In the Pacific, they accounted for 47.0 percent.
I get that the Pacific is an outlier because of all the close range combat against insane Japs hiding in caves but I'm surprised artillery isn't higher in the Pacific given all the 16" gunfire on tap
Fun fact, casualties due to small arms fire were higher in WWI and closer to 40%. Despite popular depictions of the contrary, WWI is the closest "modern" war to what people fantasize about war being like.
Where'd you get that statistic? My understanding was that the proportion of combat casualties due to artillery in WWI was higher than that (I think the source was Niall Ferguson's 'The Pity of War', before he stopped being a serious historian and became a shill), but perhaps I'm wrong.
Range is easy…how many powder charge bags you leave on or take off per given projectile’s weight at certain elevation angle of the tube.
Deflection is a bit more tricky because the mortar’s side to side traverse is going to impact in an arc rather than a straight line.
Then you have to factor in for wind.
It’s all computerized and GPS-enabled now, so the FO can simply type in the co-ordinates and describe the target, the FDC will tell the teams whether to shoot air-burst, ground-burst, or mix.
Open or closed sheaf to paste spread
-out targets or pinpoint, and then it’s just select the bomb type, remove the spec’s powder bags, (if needed), and apply the dope for each tube.
Back in my day before GPS, you used survey gear, aiming stakes at the tube-pits, and grid co-ordinates.
The FO had to send target grid co-ordinates and the Observer to Target azimuth, and then at the FDC, they’d plot it all out in grease pencil on the plotting board, transmitting the dope to the tubes.
The FO would then correct the fires after observing the splashes.
Dicking around with mortars is a hoot, (other than bumping the frickers).
You don't need to do any of that. Just consult your range table and adjust accordingly.
Yes exactly, there are tables that make the math easier
I wonder how big of a game changer these new autonomous mortar systems might be? 60-81mm autoloading systems are modular and could be added to IFVs, then directed in target via small drones, or even through rifle fire control systems by calculating rifle location and rangefinder data to target. Smart munitions also allow for some adjustment, although I doubt you can put EFPs in 60mm mortars for major trajectory shifts. You could also use mortar systems to fire in spotters that deploy chemically filled lighter than air mechanisms or parachutes like BONUS as AA becomes more of an issue. It could give you a lot of options for organic, very fast indirect fire.
I also think there is huge possibilities for indirect HMG and autocannon fire. 14.5 or even 12.7mm has an absolutely massive maximum range that can virtually never be used. But if small drones can direct them, and you can project the approximate zone of falling projectiles and hit infantry and UGVs way out. Even better if coil guns get figured out so you can quickly adjust exit velocity to easily arc over targets at a variety of angles.
Same would help mortars too. DARPA had a mortar that worked off a hybrid engine battery but nothing ever came of it. ROF would be easily adjusted too.
doing this with the AR googles will turn it into an IRL hack client
https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/FM%2023-91.pdf
Either done with a computer or plotted on a board that rotates to measure angles between points. You know the position of the observer and the guns, you can calculate the deflection and elevation for the guns based off the range and bearing from an observer. Normal mortars you use either range tables (paper sheets) or "whiz wheels" that have the angle and charge you need to use for a certain range pre calculated. Wind and stuff like that is hard to measure (especially at the top of the trajectory, where it affects the round the most) and is basically just adjusted for based off the fall of the previous round. The mortars themselves usually aim at a fixed point, usually a stake set at a known angle and the sights themselves move in relation to the mortar. They can also sight in directly on the target but that defeats the advantage of mortars.
That mortar in OP is firing in handheld mode and has a range indicator on the handle that shows the angle you need to hold it for the desired range based on what propellant charges. It can also be set up in conventional mode.
IIRC WW2 and previous artillery training manuals go over this, pretty much how to calculate the right firing orientation based on compass directions and range to target. Might wanna look in to those.
Gonna get one of these to get the hang of it. Thanks for all the helpful advice.
You get tables and practice.
https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/FT.aspx
Here are a bunch of tables if you are interested.
My guess is that they use a table with distance-angle chart.
Then aim it with a compass.
If you know your position on a map, its pretty easy to know the distance and degrees of were you want your explosives to fall.
>punch in your position in magic green box
>OP bunch in their position in their magic green box
>command centre has all mortars and OPs connected to their magic green box
>OP reports they have a target
>find its position and punch into green box
>command centre sends fire instructions to the mortars they see necessary via magic green box
>green boxes does their magic and each mortar recieve exact heading, elevation and powder charge
>fire
stories goes that OP has punched wrong and given their own position as targets and such but i dont really believe it, they would be dead then. you hit van size objects with ease at full load and range with an 81mm.
if SHTF you can just lob the mortar tubes around and fire handheld as one guy but you will hit all over the place. sometimes that might be more effective than precise hits.
between fire orders each mortar will be put to aim at whats seen as the most likely route for an enemy to approach so you can get some fire going that way in seconds.
>all of the absolute neverserved dogshit ITT
Somewhere, a fister weeps
Is that really all there is? No dealing with temperature or anything? Just using the appropriate whiz wheel for the shell you're using, adding up to 4 of those horse shoe charges depending on the range and time of flight you want, and dialing between 8-15 mils of elevation? Rifle scopes typically have a larger range of elevation adjustment than that.
Whiz wheels are only for direct lay (meaning you're shooting at a target you are looking at directly, at which point you should be tearing down the gun line and running in the opposite direction)
The other 99.9% of the time you're gunning, you'll have the Forward Observers (fisters) feeding the FDC data to convert (using pic related) to deflections, elevations, and charge to use for the gunners. Pretty sure MET data is accounted for as well, either by FDC or FO's.
>Pretty sure MET data is accounted for as well
I never saw it done in the Marines. Wind is hard to account for, especially at max ord, and is just adjusted by FOs when rounds start landing off target. Temperature has a big effect too, 81s TFTs have adjustments for temperature. 60s don't have TFTs as far as I know so they can't adjust their data until an FO calls in an adjustment. One time I was at a range in 29 Palms and we started shooting and got our range data for the targets in the cool early morning. By the end around noon we had to adjust our range by something like 100m because it was so hot. We were 60s so we couldnt do anything about it without an FO.
Artillery units have dedicated meteorologists at some level and use weather ballons to get data for winds aloft so I assume they have more sophisticated methods for accounting for it
That makes sense. Our fisters kind of fricking sucked (we were nasty girls so it was to be expected I guess). We fired 81s and 120s exclusively, and kind of just adjusted fire nonstop throughout our fire missions whenever the weather was shit, not much else we could do.
once upon a time there was this greek gay named pythagoras
in between bouts of drinking and sodomy he fricked around with some triangles
nowadays greeks are morons but pythagoras wasnt
so we take that homie triangle and we use it to drop explosives on other homies
any questions
WHALE OFF THE PORT BOW
>in awe at the size of this lad. absolute unit.
no wonders the homosexual colonists could never beat the maori properly and had to swindle them instead.
Doesn't help that they were fricking kiwis, the gaygiest of all white people
I have a need to be cleaned and jerked by this unit
>interested
You could use math but completely honest you fire enough it's the same as long range shooting. You can bullseye on the first most of the time. If you are relatively new or it's something where it needs to be all exactly timed you use math or something electronic. It's not usually ultra long range it's not like sniper fire where you have to hit within 6 inches at certain distances.
Tldr you just fire it unless it needs to be timed or it's ultra long range. And you rapidly fire it and and have a couple. Unless you are just randomly firing off in a fort you don't want to be in the same spot repeat firing.
I swear to God. Some of you use sights to shoot clay pigeons and think that's how it's done. With the kind of mortar he has, you just get enough practice you can look adjust fire. The fricking angle. I mean come the frick on. It's not rocket science unless you have to time it. It has to be fast or pre-planned before you even get where you need to fire unless you are in a base. Fire a couple move repeat. Someone will fire back at the old position most of the time.
what if u dont have line of sight? to your target. with a mortar i mean
Almost all mortar fire is from out of sight bro
>take cosine of angle you have the mortar tube
>multiply by the distance you need to shoot
>subtract the product from the distance
>this is how much you move back
Using the tangent function is also useful
Every box of 81mm or 60mm still has a Wiz-wheel in it
Or you use a handheld computer version
Wizwheel is usually faster
Good times always guaranteed!
My grandpa was on a US M2 mortar crew in WW2. He wrote a self published book about his experiences but it was..... not well written. He never went into much about the actual firing process, but i learned a lot about the value of dry socks in war.