Ukies had advanced warning that the launches were coming. They scrambled out to NATO airspace ASAP, at least those that didn't stay back to try and blunt the worst of the initial air invasion.
>MUH GOAST OF KEEEEEV
Vatniks get the rope. Ever since then, they've been launching TOO strikes here and there, keeping low and letting the vodkoons waste their AA as they convert them into apartment-killers. It looks to me like the UAF has enough good intel that they're relatively safe to recommence strikes in larger numbers now that the majority of their advanced missile tech has been exhausted.
Ukies had advanced warning that the launches were coming. They scrambled out to NATO airspace ASAP, at least those that didn't stay back to try and blunt the worst of the initial air invasion.
>MUH GOAST OF KEEEEEV
Vatniks get the rope. Ever since then, they've been launching TOO strikes here and there, keeping low and letting the vodkoons waste their AA as they convert them into apartment-killers. It looks to me like the UAF has enough good intel that they're relatively safe to recommence strikes in larger numbers now that the majority of their advanced missile tech has been exhausted.
People here keep laughing and meme-ing the ghost of kiev thing, but that shit was probably one of the best war-time propaganda in recent history. Imagine how it felt being a TDF member in and around Kiev in the first couple weeks, where you had thousands of russians bum-rushing the capital. Imagine how they felt when they heard and saw a ukranian jet plane over their heads and knowing that Russian jets and helis were being destroyed (they saw and found the wreckage). That felt very real to them, and it was one heck of a morale boost, whether the ghost of kiev was real or not at the end of the day. And that's what matters. Morale is an invaluable resource in times of war, and it's the only reason Ukraine didn't collapse in the first weeks.
The funny thing is it didn't even come out of Kiev, it was started by an aussie shitposter on twitter and Kiev ran with it because of course they would.
That's not counting the damage it did to the Russian propaganda machine. Anything they posted during the first few days was instantly countered with it.
They relaxed
They thought russian cruise missiles would hit airports and hangars with precision during the first hours of the invasion. It didnt happen.
Lacking precision bombs forcing Russian bombers to fly low and drop dumb bombs, which then makes them a lot easier to shoot down, on top of just making it harder to properly bomb when they're there to bomb.
>They thought russian cruise missiles would hit airports and hangars with precision during the first hours of the invasion. It didnt happen.
Way I heard was that their cruise missiles did manage to make a serious dent in Ukranian high altitude AA capabilities, but because of the above mentioned, they can't really properly bomb anything without getting into manpads range, which Ukraine has been absolutely flooded with.
Good intelligence.
Ukrainians knew what was coming even if Zelenski appeared to be committed to a diplomatic solution (don't know if he was serious or playing Putin for a fool), so they moved a lot of their assets elsewhere so Russia's initial long-range bombardment didn't destroy their air force like they'd planned.
>Zelenski appeared to be committed to a diplomatic solution (don't know if he was serious or playing Putin for a fool)
My guess is simply to prevent panic from spreading. Zelenskyy was warned well in advance about Russia's plans by US intel, but had to play it diplomatically to the end to keep face domestically and internationally or Russia would have probably used any drastic action to justify their 'Special Military Operation' and Ukrainians might've lost credibility with other countries, which as we've seen has been indispensable for their war effort.
>They weren't trying
This, they were hoping to seize them intact because their industry can barely manufacture Soviet era aircraft in meaningful numbers 30 years later.
You understand what's happening. This conflict works best for the profit of transnational corportations and their government enablers, in special the energy sector is stuffing their pockets right now.
i like austria
i know what the russhits did here in the soviet occupation zone
i dont want my wife and kids to be raped, my house plundered
although im not even in a nato country i would fight to the last bullet, the last drop of blood to maintain freedom and a decent way of living for me and my family
i accept temporary or maybe long term monetary cutbacks since we now have to find / build new energy sources, thx to our moronic/bought politicans
but everything is better than living like the poor peasants in luganda and donbabwe
>trade a thousand of the most modern T-72s for the UA tank fleet >forced to pull out T-62s >no new Thales optics to modernise new T-72s >galvanise NATO into stationing divisions of tanks near the border itching for their turn to play pop-goes-the-turret >Polacks ape out and go full Koreaboo, order thousands of modern tanks and artillery to replace their gopnik handmedowns
I'm sorry, who's bleeding who here?
It's the opposite. Ukraine is being sacrificed to bleed russian assets so the fun and games CAN'T start. NATO does not care how many ukranians die. NATO does not care if they send weapons to corpses. The weapons are cheap to NATO, and all the lives, equipment, and reputation russia is losing is priceless. The longer we can keep Russia in this games the more money they spend, the more sanctions they eat, and the more NATO laughs.
Most importantly of all, this is a warning to China that they won't take Taiwan without half the world propping them up so China will lose more face and forces than they should, because we know and they know their army is actually bunch of beta cuck conscripts with malfunctioning equipment. China's entire existence depends on external trade and Russia is being used to set the example.
oh no. oh god. oh god no. >SIBERIAN huskies >YAKUT/SAKHALIN laikas >all bred to have their tails stuck out of the way
we need to invade russia and save those poor dogs.
I think at the crux of it, Russia had a fairly clear idea that they're always going to suck shit and be 2nd in any conventional air engagement against a NATO or western equipped force- which seems to have flowed down into the budgets of the RU-AF >Either they didn't have a budget >Or, the budget was embezzled
A bit of both, completely subjective at this point, I'm ex-mil, but not air force and just watching budgets over the years when it comes to most countries allocating their money, the Airforce gets a fairly fricking huge lump to upgrade, then subsequent smaller allocations to train up, get parts, get the maintenance into shape and then proceeds to do not a lot for some time as actual shooting wars are fairly infrequent. Retention of pilots, ground and tech crews can be better than average though, they don't have them sleeping out on rocks on the side of a mountain or suffering overly much and there's usually decent pay. Plus, anyone flying heavies in a western AF has a job for life, always stuff to do, places to go
That doesn't appear to have happened in Russia
So the most important half of the thing, which is actually qualified pilots, keeping them in the job, training up subsequent lots of pilots, crews and tech staff just didn't eventuate. Planes are sort of out there in enough numbers to give Ukraine a super fricking bad day, they're degraded in some cases, but not all and that just left old fat c**ts in bombers to lob shit in via cruise missiles and the barest handful of qual strike craft crews to chuck dumb bombs at whatever targets they're given.
Russian's re-affirmed in their doctrine over the years, they realise they're 2nd in technology and numbers for aircraft, but looking to redress the balance.
Which is fine as a doctrine that exists and gets repeated a lot, but the dicks in charge of the implementation that the gov gave them: just didn't happen
What happened?
Who knows really, maybe the graft was too severe, the planes too expensive, pilots getting flight hours to qualify cost too much, lack of recruits willing to take a pilot contract etc. I still don't see those being unachievable in even a severely redacted amount of money, there should be 'some' planes working, some pilots enough to cover even the bare-arse basics of territorial sovereignty and other areas they can draw on.
AA does work in so much its a deterrent, but stuff like HARM, stealth and EW systems have been pretty good in terms of getting plenty of budget since the 1960's when it comes to 'the other side' along with a lot of operational practice revolving around the detection, neutralisation and establishing air superiority in the battle space. Even if that means some unwashed grots in a truck do a drive around looking for enemy AA systems and killing them, an AWAC's picking up locations, Drones searching and ye olde wilde weasel stuff going in there and triggering everyone with a button to push so strike craft can shit them up.
Thing is
Someone in Russia had to be watching this shit, then clenching their sphincter in the darkest hours of the night by themselves, realising they're really fricked. Then consecutive admins, generals and everyone else with the responsibility completely discarded it for 50 years.
I think those that knew probably though MAD would mean they would never be found out, who would do you war with Russia?
Problem is they didn't count on Putin going full moron.
Hindsight aside as it does bias things a bit, but for the last 30 years there's been some kind of outrageous border shitfight happening somewhere with Russia >Syria, Georgia, Chechen conflict, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, North Ossetia, Central African Republic
All that stuff needs a pretty stiff conventional response that you just can't wave around a nuke at them, because they just don't give a frick. Sort of like how they rattle a nuke at Euro's all the time, they don't give a frick either about your nuke shit because using them is basically mutual suicide and you get to be a despot in a bunker with all your family dying.
Anyway, point being is they've been out there doing some stuff, somewhere and not always at a great level of competence which seems to have flowed down into the troops, operational discipline and all the equipment. There's literally a lot of living experience out there which does seem to have been completely discarded at every level, be that basic weapons to fighter jets and surface warfare ships.
>Russia / USSR have always known they can't defend their airspace with fighters
They know/knew they can't defend their airspace, period.
That's why the majority of AA coverage is concentrated around Moscow and a few other strategic locations and routes, with interceptor coverage set to block mainly the western and north western front and point defense around important south/eastern parts..
Russia wiped out ua air force before march, these are whatever planes biden could scrape together from countries using them with threats and coercion. But these, too, will be gone soon. They are making cadets fly combat missions with predictable results
I keep seeing dozens of UA planes tho every day doing sorties and not a single plane being downed in weeks. So I don't think your assessment is correct
Is this a winter war 2.0 situation? Will Putin seriously continue feeding people to HIMARS until it gets cold and shitty or will this be a year long siege.
The thing sending Russians into mulched up meat bits is Putin
He HAS to win this, he's thrown the emotional, financial and future of his country into it, as much as he's probably able to throw another general under the bus to take the hit when things suck- if the war doesn't go in Russia's favour at the end of the day he will be the c**t holding the bag. Don't think there's much of a way of wriggling out of it despite all the hostages, blackmail and dirt he has on remaining opposition figures still active, at some point, some of his 'friends' will help him out the door.
Its not so much that there's much choice for him now. Either the Russia military delivers Ukraine on a plate or he's going down, he can redraw the lines on a map politically for a 'win' by moving goalposts all he wants but even through the morass of copium and propaganda there's only so much shit the average vatnik can ingest, they can eat a lot of shit, but there's a limit
>how did the Russians fail so badly in destroying the Ukie air force?
i think the funniest part is that, after the crimea attack, russia has officially lost more fixed wing aircraft in the invasion than Ukraine, atleast according to visual confirmations
they also lost 4 times more helicopters and 3 times more drones
b-b-but /misc/ told me that the russian saviors of the white race already destroyed the entire Ukrainian airforce in the first 48 hours of the special military operation! wtf?!? why are you lying hololo?
Ukies have definitely been losing aircraft and helicopters, but the general assumption is that it's mostly from either SAMs or air-to-air kills. They have less aircraft in general, and have been more careful with them because of that, so you don't get to see a lot of them getting blown up by some grunt filming with his phone.
good will gesture
Ukies had advanced warning that the launches were coming. They scrambled out to NATO airspace ASAP, at least those that didn't stay back to try and blunt the worst of the initial air invasion.
>MUH GOAST OF KEEEEEV
Vatniks get the rope. Ever since then, they've been launching TOO strikes here and there, keeping low and letting the vodkoons waste their AA as they convert them into apartment-killers. It looks to me like the UAF has enough good intel that they're relatively safe to recommence strikes in larger numbers now that the majority of their advanced missile tech has been exhausted.
I loved the Ghost of Kiev story coming so early in the war, it helped me filted a frickload of people that believed it.
People here keep laughing and meme-ing the ghost of kiev thing, but that shit was probably one of the best war-time propaganda in recent history. Imagine how it felt being a TDF member in and around Kiev in the first couple weeks, where you had thousands of russians bum-rushing the capital. Imagine how they felt when they heard and saw a ukranian jet plane over their heads and knowing that Russian jets and helis were being destroyed (they saw and found the wreckage). That felt very real to them, and it was one heck of a morale boost, whether the ghost of kiev was real or not at the end of the day. And that's what matters. Morale is an invaluable resource in times of war, and it's the only reason Ukraine didn't collapse in the first weeks.
The funny thing is it didn't even come out of Kiev, it was started by an aussie shitposter on twitter and Kiev ran with it because of course they would.
Big brain post
That's not counting the damage it did to the Russian propaganda machine. Anything they posted during the first few days was instantly countered with it.
To be fair, the Russian propaganda machine was obliterated by the 40-mile convoy for normies. For more in-depth folks, the Hostomel Revolver did it.
They were 200% complacent and thankfully never recovered. It's been great fuel for the world watching vatniks implode the last six months.
God I hope post war they interview the scot youtuber who first posted it and invented the whole thing on twitter
>Scot
Count Dankula? He's the only Scot that would be keyed into this shit that I can think of, but he'd probably be a Z-tard just to be a contrarian.
No it was a war thunder youtuber I think who might have also been invested in the ace combat series hence the given moniker
They relaxed
They thought russian cruise missiles would hit airports and hangars with precision during the first hours of the invasion. It didnt happen.
Lacking precision bombs forcing Russian bombers to fly low and drop dumb bombs, which then makes them a lot easier to shoot down, on top of just making it harder to properly bomb when they're there to bomb.
>They thought russian cruise missiles would hit airports and hangars with precision during the first hours of the invasion. It didnt happen.
Way I heard was that their cruise missiles did manage to make a serious dent in Ukranian high altitude AA capabilities, but because of the above mentioned, they can't really properly bomb anything without getting into manpads range, which Ukraine has been absolutely flooded with.
Good intelligence.
Ukrainians knew what was coming even if Zelenski appeared to be committed to a diplomatic solution (don't know if he was serious or playing Putin for a fool), so they moved a lot of their assets elsewhere so Russia's initial long-range bombardment didn't destroy their air force like they'd planned.
>Zelenski appeared to be committed to a diplomatic solution (don't know if he was serious or playing Putin for a fool)
My guess is simply to prevent panic from spreading. Zelenskyy was warned well in advance about Russia's plans by US intel, but had to play it diplomatically to the end to keep face domestically and internationally or Russia would have probably used any drastic action to justify their 'Special Military Operation' and Ukrainians might've lost credibility with other countries, which as we've seen has been indispensable for their war effort.
They weren't trying
Also
>why underpaid mob-boss generals are so incompetent
>They weren't trying
This, they were hoping to seize them intact because their industry can barely manufacture Soviet era aircraft in meaningful numbers 30 years later.
You understand what's happening. This conflict works best for the profit of transnational corportations and their government enablers, in special the energy sector is stuffing their pockets right now.
I'm wondering if the big game is to bleed NATO assets in a "trench" war before the fun and games start.
i wonder how much krokodil you consumed before using your narkoman hands to craft this shitpost.
Problem is, that only works when you're not bleeding yourself even worse.
You're assuming that european men are willing to die for a state that hates them
That line of thinking fails when you leave /misc/ and go outside
You're assuming that Russian men are willing to die for a state that hates them
the stupid frickers actually are lol, ethnic minorities are treated as second class citizens and are first to line up to die in a ditch in donetsk
i like austria
i know what the russhits did here in the soviet occupation zone
i dont want my wife and kids to be raped, my house plundered
although im not even in a nato country i would fight to the last bullet, the last drop of blood to maintain freedom and a decent way of living for me and my family
i accept temporary or maybe long term monetary cutbacks since we now have to find / build new energy sources, thx to our moronic/bought politicans
but everything is better than living like the poor peasants in luganda and donbabwe
Tell Clawgear to export shit to the US, and that they are homosexuals for not doing it.
thankfully this is not something to worry about as russia has made its presence an existential issue for everyone else, not an ideological one
imagine thinking the state that hates them gives a flying frick what their meat puppets think.
This. Russians getting sent to the meatgrinder don't complain much. Just put some Muslim blocking troops on their way home and it's all good.
Doubt that'd work if you lose just as many assets as you destroy or more. Might as well fight an open war at that point.
>trade a thousand of the most modern T-72s for the UA tank fleet
>forced to pull out T-62s
>no new Thales optics to modernise new T-72s
>galvanise NATO into stationing divisions of tanks near the border itching for their turn to play pop-goes-the-turret
>Polacks ape out and go full Koreaboo, order thousands of modern tanks and artillery to replace their gopnik handmedowns
I'm sorry, who's bleeding who here?
Holy cope.
It's the opposite. Ukraine is being sacrificed to bleed russian assets so the fun and games CAN'T start. NATO does not care how many ukranians die. NATO does not care if they send weapons to corpses. The weapons are cheap to NATO, and all the lives, equipment, and reputation russia is losing is priceless. The longer we can keep Russia in this games the more money they spend, the more sanctions they eat, and the more NATO laughs.
Most importantly of all, this is a warning to China that they won't take Taiwan without half the world propping them up so China will lose more face and forces than they should, because we know and they know their army is actually bunch of beta cuck conscripts with malfunctioning equipment. China's entire existence depends on external trade and Russia is being used to set the example.
>Trying to fight a war of attrition with someone who isn't even fighting directly
Lol. Lmao.
russia is not known for intelligence or good sense
it is a country where gay sex is illegal but bestiality is not. the brains over there try to function but short circuit half a thought in.
oh no. oh god. oh god no.
>SIBERIAN huskies
>YAKUT/SAKHALIN laikas
>all bred to have their tails stuck out of the way
we need to invade russia and save those poor dogs.
I think at the crux of it, Russia had a fairly clear idea that they're always going to suck shit and be 2nd in any conventional air engagement against a NATO or western equipped force- which seems to have flowed down into the budgets of the RU-AF
>Either they didn't have a budget
>Or, the budget was embezzled
A bit of both, completely subjective at this point, I'm ex-mil, but not air force and just watching budgets over the years when it comes to most countries allocating their money, the Airforce gets a fairly fricking huge lump to upgrade, then subsequent smaller allocations to train up, get parts, get the maintenance into shape and then proceeds to do not a lot for some time as actual shooting wars are fairly infrequent. Retention of pilots, ground and tech crews can be better than average though, they don't have them sleeping out on rocks on the side of a mountain or suffering overly much and there's usually decent pay. Plus, anyone flying heavies in a western AF has a job for life, always stuff to do, places to go
That doesn't appear to have happened in Russia
So the most important half of the thing, which is actually qualified pilots, keeping them in the job, training up subsequent lots of pilots, crews and tech staff just didn't eventuate. Planes are sort of out there in enough numbers to give Ukraine a super fricking bad day, they're degraded in some cases, but not all and that just left old fat c**ts in bombers to lob shit in via cruise missiles and the barest handful of qual strike craft crews to chuck dumb bombs at whatever targets they're given.
Russia / USSR have always known they can't defend their airspace with fighters, that's why they have always built so many SAMs.
Russian's re-affirmed in their doctrine over the years, they realise they're 2nd in technology and numbers for aircraft, but looking to redress the balance.
Which is fine as a doctrine that exists and gets repeated a lot, but the dicks in charge of the implementation that the gov gave them: just didn't happen
What happened?
Who knows really, maybe the graft was too severe, the planes too expensive, pilots getting flight hours to qualify cost too much, lack of recruits willing to take a pilot contract etc. I still don't see those being unachievable in even a severely redacted amount of money, there should be 'some' planes working, some pilots enough to cover even the bare-arse basics of territorial sovereignty and other areas they can draw on.
AA does work in so much its a deterrent, but stuff like HARM, stealth and EW systems have been pretty good in terms of getting plenty of budget since the 1960's when it comes to 'the other side' along with a lot of operational practice revolving around the detection, neutralisation and establishing air superiority in the battle space. Even if that means some unwashed grots in a truck do a drive around looking for enemy AA systems and killing them, an AWAC's picking up locations, Drones searching and ye olde wilde weasel stuff going in there and triggering everyone with a button to push so strike craft can shit them up.
Thing is
Someone in Russia had to be watching this shit, then clenching their sphincter in the darkest hours of the night by themselves, realising they're really fricked. Then consecutive admins, generals and everyone else with the responsibility completely discarded it for 50 years.
I think those that knew probably though MAD would mean they would never be found out, who would do you war with Russia?
Problem is they didn't count on Putin going full moron.
Hindsight aside as it does bias things a bit, but for the last 30 years there's been some kind of outrageous border shitfight happening somewhere with Russia
>Syria, Georgia, Chechen conflict, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, North Ossetia, Central African Republic
All that stuff needs a pretty stiff conventional response that you just can't wave around a nuke at them, because they just don't give a frick. Sort of like how they rattle a nuke at Euro's all the time, they don't give a frick either about your nuke shit because using them is basically mutual suicide and you get to be a despot in a bunker with all your family dying.
Anyway, point being is they've been out there doing some stuff, somewhere and not always at a great level of competence which seems to have flowed down into the troops, operational discipline and all the equipment. There's literally a lot of living experience out there which does seem to have been completely discarded at every level, be that basic weapons to fighter jets and surface warfare ships.
>Russia / USSR have always known they can't defend their airspace with fighters
They know/knew they can't defend their airspace, period.
That's why the majority of AA coverage is concentrated around Moscow and a few other strategic locations and routes, with interceptor coverage set to block mainly the western and north western front and point defense around important south/eastern parts..
But Russians told me something else.
Russia wiped out ua air force before march, these are whatever planes biden could scrape together from countries using them with threats and coercion. But these, too, will be gone soon. They are making cadets fly combat missions with predictable results
I keep seeing dozens of UA planes tho every day doing sorties and not a single plane being downed in weeks. So I don't think your assessment is correct
No one cares about a handful of rusty su-25s. Waste of resources.
>air force claimed kills
so they scoffed the paint job on a few vehicles, traced two and poped one
Is this a winter war 2.0 situation? Will Putin seriously continue feeding people to HIMARS until it gets cold and shitty or will this be a year long siege.
The thing sending Russians into mulched up meat bits is Putin
He HAS to win this, he's thrown the emotional, financial and future of his country into it, as much as he's probably able to throw another general under the bus to take the hit when things suck- if the war doesn't go in Russia's favour at the end of the day he will be the c**t holding the bag. Don't think there's much of a way of wriggling out of it despite all the hostages, blackmail and dirt he has on remaining opposition figures still active, at some point, some of his 'friends' will help him out the door.
Its not so much that there's much choice for him now. Either the Russia military delivers Ukraine on a plate or he's going down, he can redraw the lines on a map politically for a 'win' by moving goalposts all he wants but even through the morass of copium and propaganda there's only so much shit the average vatnik can ingest, they can eat a lot of shit, but there's a limit
Na this is the weirdo fusion of the Russo Jap and Polish Soviet war
Helps when you can actually hit their runways with your airstrikes. Lot easier to destroy jets when they're stuck on the ground.
Vatniks didn't have enough lawyers deployed for their Special Operation...
It was like the Yanks in Afgahnistan.
They needed more YouTube influencers.
>how did the Russians fail so badly in destroying the Ukie air force?
i think the funniest part is that, after the crimea attack, russia has officially lost more fixed wing aircraft in the invasion than Ukraine, atleast according to visual confirmations
they also lost 4 times more helicopters and 3 times more drones
b-b-but /misc/ told me that the russian saviors of the white race already destroyed the entire Ukrainian airforce in the first 48 hours of the special military operation! wtf?!? why are you lying hololo?
Why haven't I seen anything about Russian MANPADS in this whole conflict? What's that about?
Ukies have definitely been losing aircraft and helicopters, but the general assumption is that it's mostly from either SAMs or air-to-air kills. They have less aircraft in general, and have been more careful with them because of that, so you don't get to see a lot of them getting blown up by some grunt filming with his phone.
>Russian MANPADS
they suck balls
if even the UA are resorting to Piorun, Stinger and Martlet instead of Igla, you know shit's up.