Lads, convince me that I should or should not climb the cliff of diminishing returns and buy an exceptionally nice firearm at 2-3x the price of a perfectly good firearm.
I've been really close to pulling the proverbial trigger on a Spohr L562 Standard 6.0 or ordering a build-to-order Club30 equivalent for a while now, but every time I get to the final confirmation I haunted by the idea I could get a Python, 686, AND GP100 for the same money. Not that I want three guns where one will do, but frick bros. I also get that the Spohr is made from 100% wire EDM parts and hand assembled and is probably not crazy overpriced, but is it totally stupid to spend as much on it as all three of its mainstream competitors for a range toy? On the other hand, I also do not want to buy one of the other options just because it was cheaper. A 6" double action 357 is likely to end up my #1 most shot gun based on my recent range habits.
If you have the money... buy once, cry once.
Yeah... When I first got into guns I wanted a wide variety of 'good value' stuff but now I'm tempted to just sell everything I don't love and reduce to a few purely utilitarian pieces and a few pure 'pleasure' pieces. I guess that's the curb I'm trying to push myself over.
Firearms are very far removed from the way I make a living, and if a gun ever saves my life it'll be either my cheap soulless carry piece or my soulless nightstand piece. Perfectly utilitarian and otherwise uninteresting.
if you're the type who can buy a small number of high end firearms and be content with them, go that route. what's a few thousand over a lifetime?
How's the trigger on the SDP? Always been curious about them but never seen anyone who actually owns one
it's a 3000, not an SDP. it's also a single action only, which I'm not sure the SDP ever was available in.
the trigger is quite light, but not dangerously so. extremely crisp, minimal takeup/reset. closest equivalent is probably a high end match AR trigger. I never bothered measuring the trigger weight, but I'm sure the armorer did.
Cool proof marks on the Python, anon. The grips look pretty slick too. Happy to hear that some eurofrens are enjoying the Python!
>phyton
>high end
no, it's just rarer. the quality is ok at best
where does it say the Python is the high end one?
This. Heirloom tier guns are nice. Especially when they can actually be used.
We can talk generally about 'premium' priced guns in this thread, but to add context on the specific example in OP this is how I shoot nowadays
>Go to the range 1-2 times a month
>Usually the indoor range because it's much more convenient.
>Because it's indoor and limited to 50 feet, I usually just bring 1-2 handguns.
>I shoot 2-3 boxes of ammo.
>I pack up and leave.
As nice as it would be to spend more time at the rifle range or doing other types of shooting, realistically I know this is what the majority of my trigger time will look like in the foreseeable future.
When I go do shooting like this, my favorite stuff to shoot has been my 10mm 1911 and my 44 Super Blackhawk. The Blackhawk is cool but 44 is a bit much for the indoor range and even 44 special is pricey. I'd rather have something in 38/357 and I'd like a swing out cylinder so I want a double action.
I still bring my CCW and my full size 9mm home defense gun to stay in practice but I enjoy shooting the other stuff more. This is how I ended up wanting a Spohr.
My habits are exactly like yours, for consideration if you want a revolver but don’t want to spring for the Spohr you could always buy a prelock 686 and have a gunsmith give it a trigger job and take out any endshake. I did this with a model 19-3 and it became one of my most accurate and favorite pistols to shoot. Only issue is finding a decent gunsmith of course.
>Ergos
Tie between 686 and GP100. I really like how high the GP100 let's you get your grip, great for recoil control and sort of MR73ish. 686 just feels nice in the hand stock. It's sleeker than the Ruger.
>Trigger
Python
>Finish
Python
>Aesthetic
Python besides the rib and I dislike the cylinder release. Ruger on silhouette, 686 overall.
>Smiths
There are good smiths that specialize in each.
Then there's the Spohr. Colt beats it on finish, it's honestly on part with the Ruger for looks (that branding is kinda ugly), ergo should meet or exceed 686.
Honesty if I go for the 686 I really don't care about the lock hole and will get a new one. I've owned other S&Ws with the lock and I really don't get why people make such a fuss about it. I removed the lock and installed a plug in a J-frame and it was very easy.
If you are really drawn to high $$$ things and can afford them, then it doesn't make sense to get multiple low $ items, if the expensive one has something other than "MUH BRAND" to justify the money.
To many people the dilemma would be a Python, GP-100 or 686 over a Taurus, RIA or Hertiage Arms pot metal shitgun. I don't offhand know what the Spohr has to offer for it's price point, but there is wisdom in getting a revolver that is both well crafted and durable in the long run since mid tier tend to only do one or the other (low tier do neither).
If I could make a recommendation, Manurhin MR-73. It;s mostly build on S&W K-frame ergonomics and lockwork but has god tier durability and is polished to absolute perfection. It's not cheap, but in the realm of Gucchi-tier revolvers it is reasonably affordable. It also has GIGN counter-terror street cred.
I had one that I regret trading, but it was in poor condition and a new condition one is definitely on the bucket list. It just means dealing with Beretta which I don't look forward to.
Frick… are you me?
Don’t have a really good reason to buy craploads of mediocre guns… also find revolvers stretch the ammo out because you don’t run through a 15 round mag instantly…. Slowly get hooked on bigger revolvers because more boom is fun and buying ammo in a 20 count box doesn’t sting as much when 10-12 shots is an earth shattering experience.. if you tell me you’ve been planning on reloading but keep putting off getting the equipment I’m gonna be worried….
The bfr in 500 is brand new, looking forward to annoying the piss out of everyone with it this weekend.
If the gun isn't going to make you money or save your life, spending a lot of money on it is a waste.
>le high end über exclusive expensive luxury meme gun
yeah nah, you're getting marketed to
buy a normal gun like everyone else, or be a consooooooomer I guess
IMO the Python is nice enough for 1400-1500 bucks. Buy ammo
I've gone to local shops and fingerfricked Pythons, 686s, and GP100s several times now. I admit I'm being super nitpicky but there's at least one thing I like and dislike about each.
The GP100 has 'adequate' lockup and endshake, I really like the frame and grip angle, the factor grip sucks, the cylinder release is my favorite.
The Python has the nicest finish, and nicest trigger, but I find the cylinder release awkward and is overall attractive but the ramped rib above the barrel a little weird.
The 686 comes in a 7-shot which is cool, is middle of the road on finish and trigger, but I've worked S&W actions before and know how to make it better and it overall has the best ergos.
The Spohr is the only one I cannot lay hands on without buying, in theory it should have a similar finish to the 686 with better fit, the best trigger of them all, a similar cylinder release to the 686, and I can get it with a 9mm conversion cylinder, and it comes with perfect grips where is want to put Nills or similar on any of the others.
Sounds like you want a custom 686, I think there are shops that’ll fit a new 9mm to it cylinder
TK customs I know does 9mm conversions
I might have to look into that. The 9mm conversion isn't a huge deal, but as I will always have a 9mm bedside gun I like the idea of the Spohr having a quick detach conversion system. I admit it might be just a meme because I'm probably gonna mostly shoot 357 anyway, but it is cool.
If you really get into .357 revolvers you'll eventually get into reloading which can be cheaper than factory bulk range 9mm but there's an upfront cost of equipment and the learning phase is variable depending on your ability to do research and follow instructions.
>adequate lockup
Lets not pretend like the scaled down Super Redhawk lockup is just "adequate." It also benefits from greater bearing surface at the end of the yoke tube, thereby taking longer to peen untill endshake is out of spec(which it's also much more tolerant of). Should outlast a 686 at least 2:1 in terms of 357 Mag round count.
This isn't to say it's a reason to buy, but you're selling the durability difference well short.
Oh no maybe I misspoke. I think the GP100 reliability far exceeds my needs. What I meant by lockup is, from the examples I've handled and fry fired in stores, the GP100 had slightly more side to side and front-back play than the Python and presumably the Spohr. Not a reliability issue, but maybe an accuracy one. Probably doesn't matter considering I'll be shooting at 25-50 feet.
Rugers are definitely looser tolerances. They will tolerate endshake up until about .008 and side to side play is slightly required for them as the bullet when fired will do the final alignment.
Colt Pythons especially are very tightly toleranced, but the new ones are substantially more durable than old ones.
>A 6" double action 357 is likely to end up my #1 most shot gun based on my recent range habits.
I went to SHOT show and fingerfricked Spohr, Freedom Arms, Korth, Manurhin and every S&W, Ruger, Colt Taurus and BFR while I was there. If you want a 6'' DA .357: get the Manurhin. The Spohr felt like a really nice S&W, the Korth felt like a really nice Python, the Freedom Arms felt like the best of them all (but is single action only) and the cheaper ones are not worth mentioning in this context. The Manurhin truly felt special, great feel in the hand, trigger felt very, very smooth even in double action. Of course you could just buy a 686 or Python and then a proper toylike range gun...
Finish is decent but not great (no shiny blued guns I saw), trigger is great but not Manurhin-great (or glass like a Freedom Arms) and 9mm conversion is kinda overrated unless you handload. 9mm bullets generally have a smaller diameter than .357, meaning you get mediocre accuracy, which then leads to handloading, at which point you could have saved your money and just reloaded the .357 with either powder puff or ''Make Keith proud again'' loads.
I think extremely high end revolvers are moronic as basic revolvers and more upscale ones are already rooting tooting shooting enough. They’re already capable of very high accuracy due to the fixed barrel and revolver triggers are a spring kit away from being very good.
Now if you were buying a 2011 it would be different, a custom 2011 will run circles around the 2k entry level ones.
>Now if you were buying a 2011 it would be different, a custom 2011 will run circles around the 2k entry level ones.
Yeah for sure. For the ~$3k the Spohr will run me I know I'd get a lot of 2011, but oddly I'm totally satisfied with my mid as frick 1911. I just like shooting revolvers at the range bros. I like loading them. I like wienering them. I like having no magazine.
The way i see it, the high end nice guns should be heirlooms.
If you want some cool stuff to pass down to your kids/grandkids, drop the coin on some nice, rare, and truly high quality stuff.
If you just want it to shoot, get whatevers good enough
Kinda both, I want to shoot it until I die then pass it down. Realistically probably any of the above are capable of that with good care.
I already have a press, but I only use it to load precision 300WM and other very low volume stuff because otherwise it's not really worth the time it takes for me at least.
Factory .38/.357 starts at .45-50, so reloading it is a no brainer plus its a straightwall which means you can basically do lower powder loads round after round and not worry much about the case warping.
Having a few weapons of quality makes perfect sense as most guns get nil use. Buy what you love then shoot the frick out of it.
This is the sort of thinking that pushes me towards the Spohr for sure. I can afford it, but I'm a bit stuck in the mentality from when I had much less money and I would have thought buying a $3k range toy was fricking insane. I can put it on my debit card now without giving anything up but it still feels weird to do so.
Yeah I guess that's part of my concern - I feel like if I spend $3k+ on a revolver I'm gonna be disappointed no matter now good it is because it will only ever be marginally better than it's competitors.
Buy what you want if you can afford it. Why are you asking for advice from people with a crab in a bucket mentality who will insist everyone who buys guns cheaper than them is poor and everyone who buys guns more expensive than them is a consoomer? Don’t get talked into settling for a gun you don’t really want by people who have no clue what they’re talking about.
As my income has increased and I've been able to spend more recklessly, I've realized that my expectations increase linearly with price whereas the actual quality of product increases logarithmically. Basically, I've made a lot of purchases in the past two years or so where I've been disappointed, not necessarily because a piece of kit was bad, but because it certainly didn't meet my expectations of what it should be at such a price point.
>S&W
> 😐
>S&W but made by autistic German boomers
> :O
Just get a S&W 586/686 and slick up the trigger and you'll have a nicer looking good that shoots just as good. The MIM Smiths are fantastic and have better fit and finish than the all forged ones.
>>S&W but made by autistic German boomers
>> :O
Yeah bro it's got a cold hammer forged barrel and every single piece is wire EDM machined to tolerances that would give most manufacturing engineers cold sweats. Tell me that isn't appealing. Just maybe not $2k more appealing than a S&W.
>cold hammer forged barrel
With polygonal rifling so no lead wadcutters for you. CHF is pretty low tech anyway; I'd rather have a barrel rifled with electricity so there aren't any residual stresses. MIM parts are great, forged parts are alright, either way it doesn't take much to slick them up. If you can't or don't want to do it yourself there are plenty of gunsmiths around who can work magic on S&W triggers. I'd put money on my Clark Custom model 10 shooting just as nice or better than most of these boutique euro copies.
If I lived somewhere where it takes years of paperwork and bureaucracy to only be allowed one pistol that I'd be too scared to tinker with I could see spending more, but I don't so I won't.
It's surprising that these manufacturers rarely do anything to the S&W lockwork besides play with different metals and maybe rearrange a spring or two, it's almost like there's not anything of substance they can do to improve it lol.
that hexagon ammo sucks ass. though other geco stuff has been fine for me.
A taurus will serve you just as well, anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't know or is cloaked in cope
No doubt a Taurus will go bang as will a charter arms but having owned those and having owned more expensive revolvers there is a difference. Not a life saving or changing one but enough to justify the extra 500-700 dollars over the other choices especially if the gun is bought for entertainment at the range.
Yeah, this
I've shot Taurus and they go bang fine but this is about actual quality of user experience. A Taurus doesn't feel anywhere close to as good to use as any of the options mentioned in OP and if you've shot them you'd know. Taurus feels like a compromise every time you pick it up. I'm over it. Also frick buying a Brazilian or Turkish gun, thirdies stay out of my safe.
Am I allowed to post in this thread?
>tacticool doublestack
I'll allow it I guess. What is it anon? Tell us about it.
>on road trip
>stop at sportsman's warehouse a few hours from home
>see ppc revolver onnawall
>take a look at it
>model 10 made in peak S&W years
>whole gun done up by the father-in-law/mentor of the fastest trigger finger in the world
>timing is still solid
>trigger is better than bad sex
>it's less than a grand
It's really hard to beat a S&W that's been worked on by someone who knows what they're doing, especially when you take price into account.
Repent, zoomer
Great find anon. Any target pics? I used to be really into the slab sided PPC look but more and more I find myself drawn to a round barrel, but still a full lug.
I've only shot steel with it so far but it's boring hitting a 6" plate at 25 yards. I need to load up a bunch of wadcutters and shoot more paper with it
People with real high end 2011s will call you poor
Nah, if you can buy high end stuff you should do it. Not only do they hold value but they also illicit that certain small nod of approval from knowers.
Luxury goods of any interest are typically not 'worth it" in an objective sense. It's only worth it if you enjoy it enough to spend that much. I'm sure those are exceptional handguns, but they aren't going to shoot $2-4000 better than a Ruger/S&W/Colt .357. They will be undoubtedly nicer, but not enough to truly justify that cost. The real and only question to answer here is; Are you a bad enough dude to buy a tricked out overpriced stylin ass handgun?
I bought a Glock because I wasn't comfortable buying a Canik or a Taurus
I bought a 10/22 because I wasn't comfortable buying a Rossi
I bought a M&P 15 because I wasn't comfortable buying a PSA
I bought a Mossberg Maverick because I wasn't comfortable going Turkish
the only real L is the m&p 15 for a PSA
I somewhat doubt that you are going to go
>man, this really nice thing that I enjoy and really like wasn't worth the money I paid for it 20 years ago
that's just not how most people are. if you are that worried about it, I bet it will retain value.
normal people buy decent revolvers and then have a gunsmith make them better.
Sounds like you should.
I used to buy whatever I could afford. I missed out on some really good deals I kick myself over because I blew my load on multiple, cheaper firearms.
I also used to think it didn't make sense to buy an "impractical" firearm. So I'd only buy guns with Picatinny rails and lightweight materials in a modern caliber.
But then I'd go fawn over a Mauser C96 and then come to find out I loved 1911s, Mini-14s, revolvers, etc.
Even then, I would waste my money on cheap 1911s or revolvers. Why did I buy a Rossi 357 when I could afford a 686? When I finally bought the 686 I wondered where it had been all my life.
If you can afford a Spohr, buy it. I don't think you're gonna lose much, if anything, on it if you decide it's not right for you. Never handled one, but having looked at some great Pythons, custom S&Ws, MR73s and Korths, I'd personally say a good wheel gun is not something you're gonna regret.
FWIW of the aforementioned, Korth is the one that has impressed me the most. The MR73 is the one I was most hyped about but felt underwhelmed when I finally got to check out a new production.
I think I'm gonna reach out to the importer to feel it out. I like the Standard 6.0 but the gun builder on the Club30 website shows they also have a frame and barrel version with a more traditional rounded version which I'm especially interested in.
I totally understand that any of the guns I mentioned can be sent to a good shop to be improved from factory. As you mentioned, TK Customs does lots of good work, Heffron on Colts, Gemini Customs does Rugers. They all do great work and I've definitely considered it. Interesting enough, that's how Spohr got their start. They did that sort of sicking up of S&W revolvers and it eventually got to the point that they were importing them and just keeping the frame and cylinder, so they decided to just go all the way. That's what's appealing to me about it - it's the absolute endgame state of the 686.
It's what these anons say.
Bowen is basically retired. I can't even get one of their rear sights for my Super Blackhawk anymore.
Just not interested in spending that sort of money on an old used gun because it's 'collectable'. I've fingered almost every imaginable sort of 'vintage' gun and while there is something to them it's just not what I want as a daily driver range gun.
Thanks for all the opinions frenz. I think I'm gonna reach out to the importer today to get the conversation going about having one made to spec. If I'm dropping that sort of money I might as well get exactly what I want. If it ends up being a pain in the ass, I'll legit probably just buy a GP100 and send it to Gemini then fomo and buy a Python and 686 anyway and sell my two least favorite.
Having all three slicked up by the best in the business would be awesome actually.
>Just not interested in spending that sort of money on an old used gun because it's 'collectable'.
For me it's not about it being collectible. It's about how fricking beautiful they are compared to modern shit. I get what you're saying about wanting a shooter though.
I'm also not much of a collector. I do have one oddball Ruger that only had about 10,000 made, but it's still a shooter and I abuse it with things no other gun, excepting the FA 83, could digest.
My guns all need to be shooters.
I have my "working" guns and my range toys. Working guns are function over form. Range toys are heavy on the aesthetics.
>I think I'm gonna reach out to the importer to feel it out.
Maybe not what you meant but I don't like buying a gun sight unseen. I have and will continue to do it, used or new, but it's always a gamble.
Not so much I'm worried about defects, but whether I'll like it. Case-in-point; the MR73. So hyped to see it, but after I looked at it I played with an old 19-2 that I just liked more, and it wasn't cause it was 20% of the cost.
Have you considered trying to see if there's a Spohr group online and see if someone is local and will let you get handsy? Or even maybe a dealer you could find through GB nearby who may let you check it out?
>Heffron on Colts
That man is a wealth of knowledge and he puts it all in his atrocious looking blog.
>It's what these anons say.
Man and they're right.
I listened to Rogan interview Noir recently and they discussed the Staccato. A point that rang home with me is how they like seeing people make something to the absolute best ability they possibly could.
Makes me want to pay the $1,000 premium on a Staccato. They are VERY nice.
>collectable
Not my bag either. Not that I won't buy an old used gun, but I'll do it cause I like it, not cause it's collectible or an investment.
>GP100, Python & 686
I got my opinion on each but between the three you're guaranteed to find one you like or you don't like DA revolvers.
>Makes me want to pay the $1,000 premium on a Staccato. They are VERY nice.
Honestly, in terms of fit and finish (I'm
)... my Dan Wesson is nicer. It's got a significantly better trigger, the safety is more positive, and the slide to frame, especially with 10k or so rounds through it, is like you'd find on a 1911 twice or three times its price. Greased shit on ice. Don't get me wrong, I love my Staccato. I shoot it better than anything else. But my DW just FEELS nicer.
>muh Staccato
>muh Dan Wesson
I'm just glad most burgers can buy what they like, and not worry too much (for now).
>Don't let perfection be the enemy of better.
Heard that somewhere, and I think it's apt when it comes to being discerning about settling down with just a few choice guns.
It is worth noting too OP that a slicked up S&W can be whatever you want, from a pleasant target pistol at 8lbs DA to a race gun barely reliable with Federal primers at 4.5lbs DA(I don't like this feeling at all). TK custom does a lot of them. Stock, new Smiths can be anywhere from 11 to 14lbs DA, gritty or smooth just depends on who worked on it at the factory.
Heffron Precision slicks up Colt nuPythons. They will take the stock 11lbs DA pull and make it 8.5lbs or so. SA on new Pythons still sucks though.
I don't know of anyone that slicks up Rugers properly, I do my own and it's an exhaustive list of shit you must do to make it as good as other slicked up guns. Basically you get to do all the fitting on critical parts(trigger plunger, hammer dog) and refit the hammer and trigger to avoid touching the frame. I can get GP100s reliable(CCI primers go bang) and beautifully smooth down to 8lbs. 6lbs DA is the lightest I've gotten and that included clipping the return spring down, only reliable with Federals but it would make a fine race gun.
a slicked up S&W will never be made of the high strength steel a Spohr or Korth is made of.
I don't know that anyone has tested it to see how much of a difference the strength adds over the lifetime of the gun.
We could probably estimate it if we had measurements or even just pics of the end of the yoke tube bearing surface and could see how it locks up. I'm sure it would outlast a Smith by a significant margin though because Spohr was made by Germans who knew the ins and outs of S&Ws.
when you're buying a top grade gun made of top grade materials it's not because of how much longer it lasts, it's because it's THE BEST and you don't care if a cast part would've been enough.
I'm not very experienced in this niche but the 686 is enough gun for me. Double action 357 is OP.
I would 100% rather drop that kind of cash on vintage out of production shits. Just has more soul and resale value will always be better.
Or maybe custom jobs.
I love the design, but have yet to find any evidence of someone owning or firing one.
Bowen does a lot of cool stuff and if you have an idea they can probably do it.
The Redhawk, while I love it to death, is nigh impossible to make its trigger as reliably light as the GP100/SRH spring design.
I take them out to hunt.
Trigger on Korths is fine, better than Spohr. If anything, I'd consider the Spohr offesively expensive because it's a warmed over S&W, at least the Korth is a novel design.
I have heard no bad experiences here in Europe with Manurhin, at least not with the old ones. The new ones might be problematic at high round count (which sounds crazy as they are quite overbuilt), and I figure customer support in the US can be terrible.
Honestly, if it's just a range toy, supposed to be a pleasure to shoot, load, unload, I'd suggest taking a look at a Freedom Arms. At least take a look, see how it feels. I bought a couple and they really are excellent.
Your thoughts about the trigger are interesting. I really wish I could get hands on with some of these before committing. On price, remember pricing can be very different in the US.
>Manurhin MR73
~$4100
>Spohr L562
~$3800
>Korth Mongoose (ugly DLC black)
~$3900
>Korth Classic
>$6k+
>Janz
Unobtainium
>686
$800-900
>Python
>$1500
>GP100
$700-800
Should've gone to SHOT then. If you have frickoff kinds of money, maybe go to IWA? Or wait for SHOT next year? Or accept it might lose you some money? You'd probably lose less on the Korth or Manurhin, if you ever have to resell it.
Pricing here in Europe, roughly (depending on country and tax):
>Manurhin: 2800 EUR
>Spohr L562: 2600 EUR
>Korth Mongoose: 3500 EUR (sold as NSC here)
>KorthClassic: not sold here
>Janz: 8-10K, depending on options
>S&W 686: 1600 EUR
>Colt nu-Python: 2400 EUR
>Ruger Gp100: 1400 EUR
Honestly, US revolvers are more overpriced in Europe than European revolvers in the US. That Korth Mongoose isn't even too bad if you account for shipping and taxes.
Yeah, too bad they don't make a DA. an FA-built 686 or Python would be amazing. Imagine a FA Triple Lock...
That's wierd, you'd think it would be very simple with just a barrel swap. You can even see the barrel nut there, it would be very easy for S&W.
What I find wierd is how they haven't released a 16'' version yet, so US buyers can put a stock on it.
Oh yeah, re Freedom Arms they make nice stuff but I'm good on single actions. The ones I have are far from being anything special, but theres a big gaping hole in my selection where a double action needs to live.
>Fellow 30 year old boomer represent.
LOL, Ok.
I wish Smith had picrel in 500S&W
When I want muzzle blast I take my muzzle braked 300WM out to the 1000 yard range. 5-10 shots is usually more than enough.
You buy luxuries purely out of desire. If you're not confident you actually desire the luxury then don't buy it.