In my experience, a little less comfortable but at least it holds a spare mag. And it's not a """"brace"""" so it's not impacted by the new proposed pistol/SBR rules
And then we'll find another workaround. Already have one in mind but I'm not posting it here because gun control feds can lick my whole butthole.
Nope.
If it's a handgun with an OAL longer than 12" and under 26" (over 26" is insta SBR now) and a weight over 64oz, then it qualifies for the checklist, regardless of brace, tube, stock, etc.
So, let's do the checklist
Sec II
A. 0 points
B. 1 point (to get 0 it has to have a feature designed to actively deter shoudering)
C.if it's adjustable or telescoping it's 2 points, I can't tell from pic so less say 0
D.maybe 0, if they argue that is a fin type without a strap then it would be 2
Sec III
A. LOP is definitely over 10.5", so there's at least 1 point, but if it's longer than11.5 it's 2, 12.5 3 and iver 12.5 it's 4
B.if that's a pistol buffer without any notches it's 0, if it has notches its 1
C.if they say that's a fin type without a strap, you will get between 2 and 4 points here (yes they ding you twice for fin and cuff type braces)
D.rifle type sights/flip up sights is 1
So at least 3 points, but if there's any notches in that tube it's over, if you have a hand stop, AFG, optics, etc it's over, if they argue that's actually a fin type without a strap then you're at like 12 points
Yeah nobody is keeping track of the ATF bingo moron shit that keeps getting pushed back. And if it did, a lot of us MIGHT just be like frick it, in for a penny in for a pound I'm drilling the 3rd hole glowBlack person. You know, just maybe.
>reminder that zog only targets white people with these kinds of anarcho-tyranny schemes >Jamal isn't even allowed to gun a gun because hes a felon, and yet he has a glock switch >Ukrainians are getting full-auto m4's and AT missiles, hand over your braces goyim
Nope.
If it's a handgun with an OAL longer than 12" and under 26" (over 26" is insta SBR now) and a weight over 64oz, then it qualifies for the checklist, regardless of brace, tube, stock, etc.
So, let's do the checklist
Sec II
A. 0 points
B. 1 point (to get 0 it has to have a feature designed to actively deter shoudering)
C.if it's adjustable or telescoping it's 2 points, I can't tell from pic so less say 0
D.maybe 0, if they argue that is a fin type without a strap then it would be 2
Sec III
A. LOP is definitely over 10.5", so there's at least 1 point, but if it's longer than11.5 it's 2, 12.5 3 and iver 12.5 it's 4
B.if that's a pistol buffer without any notches it's 0, if it has notches its 1
C.if they say that's a fin type without a strap, you will get between 2 and 4 points here (yes they ding you twice for fin and cuff type braces)
D.rifle type sights/flip up sights is 1
So at least 3 points, but if there's any notches in that tube it's over, if you have a hand stop, AFG, optics, etc it's over, if they argue that's actually a fin type without a strap then you're at like 12 points
except for the fact that the appeals court recently shut down the bump stock ban that was using the same legal justification as this ruleset, which has left an awkward silence from the glowies.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Oh cool, inly took 5 years.
Maybe in 5 years an appeals court will overturn this, until the DOJ files for a new hearing, then it goes back into effect for who knows how long.
Shit the CA magban was in effect for 5 years, then overturned, for 2 days, then reinstated and been in the courts another 2 years at this point
1 year ago
Anonymous
yeah, but now there's a recent case law that can be waved in front of both congress and a judge's face that shows even attempting to make this gay checklist is moot
1 year ago
Anonymous
Still tho. It's a win. And once we win, it can't be overruled. We're one step closer to abolishing the NFA. It'll take years but it gives me hope. Progress is progress. Be grateful.
>If it's a handgun with an OAL longer than 12" and under 26" (over 26" is insta SBR now) and a weight over 64oz, then it qualifies for the checklist, regardless of brace
You stupid bootlicking homosexual, just read the title of the proposal
https://i.imgur.com/5Gpxx2j.png
.
This gay little points system only applies to weapons with stabilizing braces attached. This isn't a brace.
It already has a classification under the BATFE as a storage accessory. There's nothing about this design that works as a brace
1 year ago
Anonymous
And pistol braces were classified under the ATF as not making it an SBR, until now.
OPs is clearly a brace, maybe if it was further from the end of the tube it could got away with it, but not now.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>It already has a classification under the BATFE as a storage accessory
The ATF doesn't have a classification for storage accessories. Prepare your anus and tell your dogs you love them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>repeating the same made up vullshit will make it true!
K
>over 26" is insta SBR now
Source? I combed over the proposal and can find nothing about it. All I see is that this policy covers pistols because >26" can be a "firearm".
Firearm/Other is it's own thing distinct from pistols ,which is why if you have a 12.5 barrel or 11.5 with an a5 tube that you can have a VFG since verts on a firearm >26 oal aren't AOW's.
I had read that previously, but I don't think the prerequisite 1 means it's an SBR.
It says a firearm must weigh over 64oz AND be between 12 and 26 inches.
If a gun weighs under 64oz, I doubt that means it's an SBR. From all I can find there's nothing stating >26 is explicitly an SBR.
It seems firearm/other as a category was forgotten about. I know in states like NJ it's a useful category to maintain compliance and still have a practical setup, I'm wondering if there may be some workaround for short, non SBR AR's that "other" becomes the norm.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I had read that previously, but I don't think the prerequisite 1 means it's an SBR.
It does if your gun has a potentially shoulderable "totally not a stock" attachment on the back.
captcha 0w0mh
1 year ago
Anonymous
The brace is in a grey area, it seems it's only restricted on pistols.
The parallel I see is 12.5 AR's with VFG's. Putting a vert on a pistol <26in makes you a felon, but >26 and it's fine.
The brace itself has not been criminalized, it's specifically setups for pistols. Which is why it keeps specifying handgun configuration and not just a statement that braces=stocks now.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>The brace is in a grey area, it seems it's only restricted on pistols.
If the gun doesn't meet both prerequisites in section 1 (at least 64 ounces and between 12" and 26" long), and it has a brace or something else the ATF thinks is shoulderable, it's an SBR. The ATF isn't just going to turn their brain off and start this process all over again from the very beginning because people came up with a new "totally not a stock" workaround that isn't a brace like OP posted.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Where does it say such? There's already such a workaround with vert grips on >26 firearms.
Now they may expand it, but the way it is currently written I see nothing written to indicate a braced firearm would be an SBR.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes, if it's under the weight/under the min size, it's a pistol regardless of brace, if it's above 26" (but bareel under 16") then it's an SBR regardless of brace
1 year ago
Anonymous
>if it's above 26" (but barrel under 16") then it's an SBR regardless of brace
If it's not designed to be shouldered and has <16" it's not an SBR. SBR is a rifle, and rifles are designed to be shouldered.
I know in NJ there's guides on how to setup non-nfa others because conventional rifles are restricted, pistols need pinned mags, and NFA isn't an option.
If you can show me where it says >26 means an instant SBR I'd like to see it. But from my searching there's more to it than that.
Probably. They'd likely claim you were modifying it to make it more like a stock. Since it's classified as a storage device, you'd have to convincingly explain how padding the back part is related to improving the storage functionality.
Nope.
If it's a handgun with an OAL longer than 12" and under 26" (over 26" is insta SBR now) and a weight over 64oz, then it qualifies for the checklist, regardless of brace, tube, stock, etc.
So, let's do the checklist
Sec II
A. 0 points
B. 1 point (to get 0 it has to have a feature designed to actively deter shoudering)
C.if it's adjustable or telescoping it's 2 points, I can't tell from pic so less say 0
D.maybe 0, if they argue that is a fin type without a strap then it would be 2
Sec III
A. LOP is definitely over 10.5", so there's at least 1 point, but if it's longer than11.5 it's 2, 12.5 3 and iver 12.5 it's 4
B.if that's a pistol buffer without any notches it's 0, if it has notches its 1
C.if they say that's a fin type without a strap, you will get between 2 and 4 points here (yes they ding you twice for fin and cuff type braces)
D.rifle type sights/flip up sights is 1
So at least 3 points, but if there's any notches in that tube it's over, if you have a hand stop, AFG, optics, etc it's over, if they argue that's actually a fin type without a strap then you're at like 12 points
No one even knows or cares about this lol. And they know this which is why they already delayed their "decision" 3 times, cope 🙂
Probably. They'd likely claim you were modifying it to make it more like a stock. Since it's classified as a storage device, you'd have to convincingly explain how padding the back part is related to improving the storage functionality.
>explain
To fricking who? Are you fricking moronic ?
Probably. They'd likely claim you were modifying it to make it more like a stock. Since it's classified as a storage device, you'd have to convincingly explain how padding the back part is related to improving the storage functionality.
make a shoulder pad that buffs up the front of your shoulder. It's a part of your clothing, so it's not a stock. Add this with the mag holder and you've got what's essentially a stock with extra ammo. Get fricking dunked on, GAY-TF.
yes, you're complying you cuck. you lost your rights and didn't fight back.
if you don't own a unregistered sbr and machineg gun you're by definition a complying cuck. call me a fed, call me a glowBlack person, but people like you are the reason why we ended up in this situation in the first place.
compliance gives legitimacy.
yes, you're complying you cuck. you lost your rights and didn't fight back.
if you don't own a unregistered sbr and machineg gun you're by definition a complying cuck. call me a fed, call me a glowBlack person, but people like you are the reason why we ended up in this situation in the first place.
compliance gives legitimacy.
You're based sir. Don't let the comply cucks demoralize you. You are not alone
This. I have a lot of shit the glowies would be mad at me for. And I already got raided back in 2018 in January. Frick the feds. I don't care. I just get better at keeping it on the down low. The fact they raided me and I got off means I have a better understanding of how they work.
Is it just me or is this unbelievably confusing in what it's actually trying to classify? I mean yeah it's the ATF I'm not surprised, but reading this.. it seemingly makes less sense than the old classification system
Trying to objectively define a very subjective and nonsensical classification and then having to further refine it once people start skirting the edges and gaming the system leads to a very complex and nonsensical system.
>gaming the system
it's troublesome you would even phrase this like you did. If freedom is a tree, and one of the branches hasn't been cut off or strapped to the ground yet, you shouldn't think of the branch as a loophole. Shall not be infringed means they don't get to say what kind of handles a gun has. Shooting your dog if you don't do what they say is terrorism.
[...]
Is it just me or is this unbelievably confusing in what it's actually trying to classify? I mean yeah it's the ATF I'm not surprised, but reading this.. it seemingly makes less sense than the old classification system
It’s so when they Duncan Leno you they can easily frame you too. >he had crack and a unregistered fully semi automatic machine gun, as well as a machine coat hanger! >an anonymous tip said he was chud!! >sealed criminal history of being a bad goy!!! >anti government sentiments!!!!!
Don't worry about it, because this particular worksheet was proposed by the ATF last year, but not actually implemented in the """final""" rule. The new officially-unofficial guidance is "if it has enough surface area to shoulder it, then it's probably a stock, but send us pictures of your weapon complete with your personal information and our people will assess it and get back to you on what they think lol"
I can't wait for some dumbfrick with nothing to lose to ACTUALLY do that and then turn around and sue ATF for entrapping him into providing federal law enforcement with photographic evidence of his "felony" SBR ex post facto.
basically. I'm tired of these dumbfrick cope solutions. >i-it's a brace >i-it's a binary trigger >p-please s-sir, I'm a good person, see?
We should've focused on removing the NFA from the books, not this stupid cheeky shit.
Pro tip: have you all tried not buying guns / owning weapons? You realize if you all just stopped owning weapons then the firearm division of the ATF wouldn’t have a reason to exist.
Just stop owning guns. It’s that simple. You’re not in the military(you have never served) just stop larping.
Pro tip: have you tried not breathing? You realize if you just stopped breathing then the sage option wouldn’t have a reason to exist.
Just stop breathing. It’s that simple. You’re not intelligent (you couldn't spell intelligence) just stop trying.
I mean, it's practical, but they could've done better. Or is this supposed to be one of those "it's not a stock it's a mag holder hurr" things? Look at it, how do you think it would hold up in court that that isn't a stock? Or your braces for that matter? ATF clearly doesn't give a shit, just put a stock on it and have tools to take it off at the range if you get caught to "correct the crime"
Braces and blades skirt by on the legal loophole that they are intended to be operated one-handed like a pistol. That's it. Replacing the brace with a magholder that can be shouldered in any way without any features to "encourage" one-handed operation is just a fancy stock for all the ATF cares.
That's why you should just put a fricking stock on it and tell anyone who asks about it to frick off. Even in an emergency you could easily replace it with a legal brace in seconds.
>is just a fancy stock for all the ATF cares.
For what it's worth, the manufacturers have a letter from the DOJ stating that this mag holder does not meet the definition of a stock and therefore does not turn a pistol into an SBR. Obviously this is subject to change on a whim but it has already been reviewed and determined its not a stock or brace
Right, hence my last sentence acknowledging that these classifications are always subject to change, like pistol braces. But for now, this mag holder is one way to avoid ""the checklist"" homosexualry.
THE CHECKLIST ISNT FRICKIN REAL
Its conjecture, its a fugazi, its a fugaze, its not a frickin law passed by law making bodies and non lawmaking bodies dont have the authority to do so (recent EPA case)
Some bullshit some homosexual pedant catamite bureaucrat came up with is only real *because* you think its real! Its a monster under your bed! Boo!
>he thinks the DOJ is a legislative body
You're so fricking moronic it's absurd. This is unconstitutional horseshit as proven in the EPA case last year.
i personally own no firearms, never have. i have an interest in them and always will though.
but if you are even filling out paperwork with the atf, you are the problem
>The rule allows for a 120-day period for manufacturers, dealers, and individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifles covered by the rule.
Damn, I didn't think they'd do it. I should have bought one.
Oh noooo, that sucks. Too bad the most popular rifle on the market is also the most modular, and any moron can buy a brace for $50 and slap it on his gun. Or even better buy an SBR-length upper and slap it on a stocked lower.
Nobody cares, nobody will comply.
>The rule allows for a 120-day period for manufacturers, dealers, and individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifles covered by the rule.
Damn, I didn't think they'd do it. I should have bought one.
>registering your already legal guns, sending in pictures of them, and having to notify the ATF every time you move
Is there a hard source for this 10-40 million claim? I'm having a hard time believing that, considering there have been about 302.3 million NICS checks since January 2012, and that would mean between 1 in every 30 to 1 in every 7.5 guns sold in that time period were a new braced pistols, when braces only really started catching on toward the later half of that time period.
It's also anyone who builds an AR pistol, and anyone who buys a PCC under 16" either braced from the factory or puts one on themselves. Hell you could even throw in shotgun builds like from a shockwave with an adapter, there have to be at least few thousand of those around.
Historically you needed a slick tube. Lots of guys used to put a tennis ball on them. They haven't been made in probably 6-7 years because of braces but I'm sure they'll make a comeback.
A round, bare buffer tube isn't one because it's materially necessary to the function of the gun and has no additional material to improve its shoulderability.
An adjustable carbine buffer tube could be.
The problem is that this thing is dead on arrival. It's toast. One of the suits next week will get an injunction put on it before 120 days is up and then it'll be fricked in the court.
Read the wording. Any buffer tube. They don't give a shit and will cite some BS bufferless design as evidence you had constructive intent and added a "stock" to your "SBR".
You're interpreting the language incorrectly. This is specifically about "accessories" (i.e. features that aren't critical to the function of the gun) that increase the surface area that could be shouldered.
>i.e. features that aren't critical to the function of the gun
Funny story about how California politicians are trying that same argument.
The AWB in CA was specifically to get rid of common firearms by banning "features" instead of the whole gun. They specifically went for parts needed, such as a magazine release. Now that they are getting called out on their ban, their argument is shifting to "you don't technically need the parts of the gun to have a gun".
Except you do.
Either the accessory is too rare to be worth banning or enough people want the feature to make it protected under the 2A. The middle ground is just infringement with different words.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sounds like the CA law on "night vision scopes" >night vision goggles = okay >clip-on night vision = okay >thermal optics = okay >optics with integrated night vision = BANNED
Should I just use the free SBR ticket to get myself a free SBRd standard AR lower?
I have an sba3 on a colt style AR9 with a magwell adapter.
Any downsides to doing that, besides being on a long lost of SBR owners?
If you're comfortable submitting photos, fingerprints, and details about your gun to the DOJ, then you might as well. Otherwise you'll have to continue using your carbine at risk, at which point you might as well put a real stock on it since it's considered an SBR now.
After some thought, I think Ill take the brace off for now and wait a month or so.
I can always just register it using a standard form and not have to deal with the potential of submitting incriminating evidence.
200$ is not too much currentley
I can't seem to find the law the atf is following where pistols need to be assigned points. Sounds like the atf might discover what happened to the epa a little while ago.
Or maybe it'll be a non issue for other reasons. Short barrel shotguns (And rifles, back when the government was poised to ban all handguns) were generally prohibited because the supreme court felt the military wouldn't use them. Conversely, full auto is generally prohibited because the military uses full auto. Neither type of firearm was prohibited when the founding fathers were still alive. These prohibitions might be reexamined soon.
I can't wait to own a correctly configured m4.
ATF brace laws:
Protecting us from people who are fine illegally murdering people, but totally respect guidelines illegally enforced as laws and have no access to legally configured pistols.
Whew, we are finally safe from them.
it's funny, I used to think that the "they're taking ur guns" crowd was a bit nuts, but I think this makes me understand.
I haven't been around for stuff like the AWB, but with the bump stock thing, the FRT thing, the form 1 solvent trap thing, and now this thing.
I dunno man. I just uh. I dunno.
You're not wrong, but how many people are willing to encumber themselves for years in the courts battling it out over appealing a fricky ATF ruling that got handed to them? Remember the one guy who just took a deal and walked away when the ATF tried to bust him on selling AR receivers as "firearms" when they technically aren't? I can't say I blame him at all for not wanting to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money in legal fees even if he did think he had a slam-dunk case.
court battles should be the job of the 2A grift organizations and arms and ammo manufacturers themselves. the average joe shouldn't have to individually endure the legal system on their own. the fact that these organizations are not actively fighting the nfa tells you everything you need to go. the nfa is the big fish from which all the other fish spawn. it's in everyone's interest to see it gotten rid of.
why not just run bare tube and have a permanent thicc rough cloth cover like the suppressor covers that exist
it would also be comfy, since the thick cloth cover would insulate the metal buffer tube from yourself in hot or cold conditions where it might accidentally touch you
I don't know about the legality of supporting your gun by holding a buffer tube against your forearm, but it would also provide increased friction for that purpose
could also probably get your anime waifu printed on the tube cover, and it wouldn't discolour too much since there's not much heat on it unlike on suppressors and it might even be a decent spot to wrap some small spare rope or an extra emergency tourniquet
the cover itself might actually be a storage device with maintenance tools in it
Those exist. Those have existed for a while. In fact rubber buffer tube sleeves were basically the closest thing to braces before braces were invented. People used them exactly like how you described. They suck for actual shooting, which is why braces became a thing in the first place. Besides, despite the fact that they're PROBABLY kosher, that's not the point; the point is that you're taking a crapshoot either way by conceding to the feds that they have the authority to determine through completely arbitrary means whether or not you're breaking the law after the fact on a case-by-case basis. Even if I were 99% certain they'd give my wrapped buffer tube the thumbs-up and agree it's a pistol, I'm not fricking rolling the dice if there's the faintest possibility they'll say it's an SBR. ESPECIALLY not in a state where I couldn't even register one if I wanted.
Hold up, what if the buffer tube itself is machined in a way to make it usable as a stock? It can't be removed without rendering pistol inoperable.
Has anyone tried to machine a stock into the lower receiver extension?
Unironically better than an sba3
In my experience, a little less comfortable but at least it holds a spare mag. And it's not a """"brace"""" so it's not impacted by the new proposed pistol/SBR rules
If it gets more popular, it will be.
Don't you know how this war on gun rights works??
And then we'll find another workaround. Already have one in mind but I'm not posting it here because gun control feds can lick my whole butthole.
Yeah nobody is keeping track of the ATF bingo moron shit that keeps getting pushed back. And if it did, a lot of us MIGHT just be like frick it, in for a penny in for a pound I'm drilling the 3rd hole glowBlack person. You know, just maybe.
>Black folk in chicago dont even get braces, they just hold the draco out, not even with a push sling
>ATF: "we gotta make law abiding people felons!"
sooooooo fvcking true
>reminder that zog only targets white people with these kinds of anarcho-tyranny schemes
>Jamal isn't even allowed to gun a gun because hes a felon, and yet he has a glock switch
>Ukrainians are getting full-auto m4's and AT missiles, hand over your braces goyim
Like a kak blade but better, this truly balances out the pistol for 1 handed firing.
There's always a work-around.
There's always a weirder fish
there's always a weirder fetish
Innovation always surpasses legislation
LOL no there isn't, what's next a fricking crutch? And then what?
Wait and see, fed.
That will still score at least 7 points on the sheet, 4 is a one way ticket to federal prison for 10 years.
The sheet only applies to guns with pistol braces. This isn't a brace, it's a storage device.
Nope.
If it's a handgun with an OAL longer than 12" and under 26" (over 26" is insta SBR now) and a weight over 64oz, then it qualifies for the checklist, regardless of brace, tube, stock, etc.
So, let's do the checklist
Sec II
A. 0 points
B. 1 point (to get 0 it has to have a feature designed to actively deter shoudering)
C.if it's adjustable or telescoping it's 2 points, I can't tell from pic so less say 0
D.maybe 0, if they argue that is a fin type without a strap then it would be 2
Sec III
A. LOP is definitely over 10.5", so there's at least 1 point, but if it's longer than11.5 it's 2, 12.5 3 and iver 12.5 it's 4
B.if that's a pistol buffer without any notches it's 0, if it has notches its 1
C.if they say that's a fin type without a strap, you will get between 2 and 4 points here (yes they ding you twice for fin and cuff type braces)
D.rifle type sights/flip up sights is 1
So at least 3 points, but if there's any notches in that tube it's over, if you have a hand stop, AFG, optics, etc it's over, if they argue that's actually a fin type without a strap then you're at like 12 points
Except you dont even know if these are the rules and you say nope like a homosexual woman or badly raised child lmao frick you wannabe knowitall
It's literally right here fricking gay, goes into effect the end of this month.
except for the fact that the appeals court recently shut down the bump stock ban that was using the same legal justification as this ruleset, which has left an awkward silence from the glowies.
Oh cool, inly took 5 years.
Maybe in 5 years an appeals court will overturn this, until the DOJ files for a new hearing, then it goes back into effect for who knows how long.
Shit the CA magban was in effect for 5 years, then overturned, for 2 days, then reinstated and been in the courts another 2 years at this point
yeah, but now there's a recent case law that can be waved in front of both congress and a judge's face that shows even attempting to make this gay checklist is moot
Still tho. It's a win. And once we win, it can't be overruled. We're one step closer to abolishing the NFA. It'll take years but it gives me hope. Progress is progress. Be grateful.
>If it's a handgun with an OAL longer than 12" and under 26" (over 26" is insta SBR now) and a weight over 64oz, then it qualifies for the checklist, regardless of brace
You stupid bootlicking homosexual, just read the title of the proposal
.
This gay little points system only applies to weapons with stabilizing braces attached. This isn't a brace.
Yeah, and OPs thing will be called a brace, probably a fin type brace without a strap, making it an insta SBR.
It already has a classification under the BATFE as a storage accessory. There's nothing about this design that works as a brace
And pistol braces were classified under the ATF as not making it an SBR, until now.
OPs is clearly a brace, maybe if it was further from the end of the tube it could got away with it, but not now.
>It already has a classification under the BATFE as a storage accessory
The ATF doesn't have a classification for storage accessories. Prepare your anus and tell your dogs you love them.
>repeating the same made up vullshit will make it true!
K
Holy shit that is AWB levels of moronic checklist
>over 26" is insta SBR now
Source? I combed over the proposal and can find nothing about it. All I see is that this policy covers pistols because >26" can be a "firearm".
Firearm/Other is it's own thing distinct from pistols ,which is why if you have a 12.5 barrel or 11.5 with an a5 tube that you can have a VFG since verts on a firearm >26 oal aren't AOW's.
4 posts below the one you replied to:
I had read that previously, but I don't think the prerequisite 1 means it's an SBR.
It says a firearm must weigh over 64oz AND be between 12 and 26 inches.
If a gun weighs under 64oz, I doubt that means it's an SBR. From all I can find there's nothing stating >26 is explicitly an SBR.
It seems firearm/other as a category was forgotten about. I know in states like NJ it's a useful category to maintain compliance and still have a practical setup, I'm wondering if there may be some workaround for short, non SBR AR's that "other" becomes the norm.
>I had read that previously, but I don't think the prerequisite 1 means it's an SBR.
It does if your gun has a potentially shoulderable "totally not a stock" attachment on the back.
captcha 0w0mh
The brace is in a grey area, it seems it's only restricted on pistols.
The parallel I see is 12.5 AR's with VFG's. Putting a vert on a pistol <26in makes you a felon, but >26 and it's fine.
The brace itself has not been criminalized, it's specifically setups for pistols. Which is why it keeps specifying handgun configuration and not just a statement that braces=stocks now.
>The brace is in a grey area, it seems it's only restricted on pistols.
If the gun doesn't meet both prerequisites in section 1 (at least 64 ounces and between 12" and 26" long), and it has a brace or something else the ATF thinks is shoulderable, it's an SBR. The ATF isn't just going to turn their brain off and start this process all over again from the very beginning because people came up with a new "totally not a stock" workaround that isn't a brace like OP posted.
Where does it say such? There's already such a workaround with vert grips on >26 firearms.
Now they may expand it, but the way it is currently written I see nothing written to indicate a braced firearm would be an SBR.
Yes, if it's under the weight/under the min size, it's a pistol regardless of brace, if it's above 26" (but bareel under 16") then it's an SBR regardless of brace
>if it's above 26" (but barrel under 16") then it's an SBR regardless of brace
If it's not designed to be shouldered and has <16" it's not an SBR. SBR is a rifle, and rifles are designed to be shouldered.
I know in NJ there's guides on how to setup non-nfa others because conventional rifles are restricted, pistols need pinned mags, and NFA isn't an option.
If you can show me where it says >26 means an instant SBR I'd like to see it. But from my searching there's more to it than that.
Would you get in trouble for padding the butt on this thing?
Probably. They'd likely claim you were modifying it to make it more like a stock. Since it's classified as a storage device, you'd have to convincingly explain how padding the back part is related to improving the storage functionality.
That would add 7 points on the checklist.
No one even knows or cares about this lol. And they know this which is why they already delayed their "decision" 3 times, cope 🙂
>explain
To fricking who? Are you fricking moronic ?
Just cram or fold a soft "cleaning rag" in the end for padding. It's not a permanent modification, so I guess you'd be in the clear.
make a shoulder pad that buffs up the front of your shoulder. It's a part of your clothing, so it's not a stock. Add this with the mag holder and you've got what's essentially a stock with extra ammo. Get fricking dunked on, GAY-TF.
Frick your stupid checklist bootlicking homosexual
Frick complying
Frick the atf
Frick playing by the rules nobody else plays by
>anyone who points out that your workaround attempt to the comply with the law doesn't actually comply with the law is a bootlicker
wut?
who are you quoting??
>if you try make a workaround to comply with laws and it's not actually complying you're a complying bootlicker
Does it hurt to be this moronic?
yes, you're complying you cuck. you lost your rights and didn't fight back.
if you don't own a unregistered sbr and machineg gun you're by definition a complying cuck. call me a fed, call me a glowBlack person, but people like you are the reason why we ended up in this situation in the first place.
compliance gives legitimacy.
>you should have started a war with the government for your rights over 80 years ago its all your fault
K
hes right you know
Based
Have you tried moving somewhere that doesn't suck ass?
>move somewhere where federal law isn't valid
K
Go back to R*ddit, gay.
>K
>being upset your shot idea won't be complying with laws so you freak out on everyone calling them compilers
K
You're based sir. Don't let the comply cucks demoralize you. You are not alone
This. I have a lot of shit the glowies would be mad at me for. And I already got raided back in 2018 in January. Frick the feds. I don't care. I just get better at keeping it on the down low. The fact they raided me and I got off means I have a better understanding of how they work.
The glowBlack person fears mass noncompliance
PEEPEE POOPOOOOOO
write that shit on every line.
Is it just me or is this unbelievably confusing in what it's actually trying to classify? I mean yeah it's the ATF I'm not surprised, but reading this.. it seemingly makes less sense than the old classification system
I assumed that was intentional.
I’m gonna ignore it. Entry teams aren’t even wearing full MOPP or laser eyepro.
Trying to objectively define a very subjective and nonsensical classification and then having to further refine it once people start skirting the edges and gaming the system leads to a very complex and nonsensical system.
>gaming the system
it's troublesome you would even phrase this like you did. If freedom is a tree, and one of the branches hasn't been cut off or strapped to the ground yet, you shouldn't think of the branch as a loophole. Shall not be infringed means they don't get to say what kind of handles a gun has. Shooting your dog if you don't do what they say is terrorism.
>Is it just me or is this unbelievably confusing in what it's actually trying to classify?
Normal day for the ATF
How many dogs do you own?
It’s so when they Duncan Leno you they can easily frame you too.
>he had crack and a unregistered fully semi automatic machine gun, as well as a machine coat hanger!
>an anonymous tip said he was chud!!
>sealed criminal history of being a bad goy!!!
>anti government sentiments!!!!!
Is it possible to use these rules to create something that absolutely cannot be a two handed rifle but still scores over 4?
Don't worry about it, because this particular worksheet was proposed by the ATF last year, but not actually implemented in the """final""" rule. The new officially-unofficial guidance is "if it has enough surface area to shoulder it, then it's probably a stock, but send us pictures of your weapon complete with your personal information and our people will assess it and get back to you on what they think lol"
I can't wait for some dumbfrick with nothing to lose to ACTUALLY do that and then turn around and sue ATF for entrapping him into providing federal law enforcement with photographic evidence of his "felony" SBR ex post facto.
Do you think this would hold a sleeve of pop tarts? I get hungry at the range sometimes.
Only one way to find out
DON'T FRICK WITH ME
what is this internet nonsense everyone knows gun laws are invalid.
i would rather be a felon over putting that moron shit on my gun.
what does this have to do with ukraine? gun law discussion goes on /misc/
go back
The best workaround is the thordsen cheekrest. Problem is theyre not adjustable and they require a proprietary tube.
>FAB pointing foregrip
Patrician taste
Bro I love those grips. I can't find any cheap copies tho. And I'm not paying $60 for it
I got one with the matching thumb stop for like $40 on opticsplanet. 100% worth it, so much more comfortable on my 10" AR
Been looking for this combo and they've been outta stock for so long
https://www.opticsplanet.com/fab-defense-forward-point-shooting-foregrip.html
Knockoff
https://www.amazon.com/Fore-Vertical-Ergonomic-Nylon-Handle/dp/B0BLJHCY7C/
>actually jumping through the hoops the ATF wants you to do
Damn
basically. I'm tired of these dumbfrick cope solutions.
>i-it's a brace
>i-it's a binary trigger
>p-please s-sir, I'm a good person, see?
We should've focused on removing the NFA from the books, not this stupid cheeky shit.
Pro tip: have you all tried not buying guns / owning weapons? You realize if you all just stopped owning weapons then the firearm division of the ATF wouldn’t have a reason to exist.
Just stop owning guns. It’s that simple. You’re not in the military(you have never served) just stop larping.
>just stop making money and the irs won't exist Lolololololol I'm so fricking smart
Pro tip: have you tried not breathing? You realize if you just stopped breathing then the sage option wouldn’t have a reason to exist.
Just stop breathing. It’s that simple. You’re not intelligent (you couldn't spell intelligence) just stop trying.
>verification not required
I mean, it's practical, but they could've done better. Or is this supposed to be one of those "it's not a stock it's a mag holder hurr" things? Look at it, how do you think it would hold up in court that that isn't a stock? Or your braces for that matter? ATF clearly doesn't give a shit, just put a stock on it and have tools to take it off at the range if you get caught to "correct the crime"
Or make sure anyone that sees has an accident that no one else sees
Braces and blades skirt by on the legal loophole that they are intended to be operated one-handed like a pistol. That's it. Replacing the brace with a magholder that can be shouldered in any way without any features to "encourage" one-handed operation is just a fancy stock for all the ATF cares.
That's why you should just put a fricking stock on it and tell anyone who asks about it to frick off. Even in an emergency you could easily replace it with a legal brace in seconds.
>is just a fancy stock for all the ATF cares.
For what it's worth, the manufacturers have a letter from the DOJ stating that this mag holder does not meet the definition of a stock and therefore does not turn a pistol into an SBR. Obviously this is subject to change on a whim but it has already been reviewed and determined its not a stock or brace
And multiple brace manufacturers have letters saying that pistol braces aren't stocks.
It doesn't matter now, hence the rule change.
Right, hence my last sentence acknowledging that these classifications are always subject to change, like pistol braces. But for now, this mag holder is one way to avoid ""the checklist"" homosexualry.
THE CHECKLIST ISNT FRICKIN REAL
Its conjecture, its a fugazi, its a fugaze, its not a frickin law passed by law making bodies and non lawmaking bodies dont have the authority to do so (recent EPA case)
Some bullshit some homosexual pedant catamite bureaucrat came up with is only real *because* you think its real! Its a monster under your bed! Boo!
At first I was all
Then I was like
>he thinks the DOJ is a legislative body
You're so fricking moronic it's absurd. This is unconstitutional horseshit as proven in the EPA case last year.
You know if I could just pay an extra 200 bucks when I bought it, I wouldnt mind. But waiting a year? Kiss my ass.
i personally own no firearms, never have. i have an interest in them and always will though.
but if you are even filling out paperwork with the atf, you are the problem
Hilarious.
But the NFA is an infringement on my rights and should be repealed.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-new-rule-address-stabilizing-braces-accessories-used-convert
>The rule allows for a 120-day period for manufacturers, dealers, and individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifles covered by the rule.
Damn, I didn't think they'd do it. I should have bought one.
Oh noooo, that sucks. Too bad the most popular rifle on the market is also the most modular, and any moron can buy a brace for $50 and slap it on his gun. Or even better buy an SBR-length upper and slap it on a stocked lower.
Nobody cares, nobody will comply.
>registering your already legal guns, sending in pictures of them, and having to notify the ATF every time you move
>get SBR privileges on a gun you no longer really care to shoot due to the ammo situation
Yes.
>privileges
>can actually go out and shoot your gun without the situation possibly turning into a police standoff rather than just looking at it at home
Yes.
Show me one time that has ever actually happened
Go outside. The feds haven't done that standoff shit against armed and organized innocent people since the 90s. For reasons you should already know.
Aaaaand they're all illegal now
>10 to 40 million
ATF can't deal with that amount of paperwork. Lol.
To register them, no.
But they will certainly charge you with them if caught, bumps up their numbers, justifies a higher budget, etc etc.
Is there a hard source for this 10-40 million claim? I'm having a hard time believing that, considering there have been about 302.3 million NICS checks since January 2012, and that would mean between 1 in every 30 to 1 in every 7.5 guns sold in that time period were a new braced pistols, when braces only really started catching on toward the later half of that time period.
Braced pistols have have selling for a decade.
>considering there have been about 302.3 million NICS checks since January 2012
It's right there in my post you moron.
It's also anyone who builds an AR pistol, and anyone who buys a PCC under 16" either braced from the factory or puts one on themselves. Hell you could even throw in shotgun builds like from a shockwave with an adapter, there have to be at least few thousand of those around.
Is a bare buffer tube a stock if shouldered?
do you think they care
Historically you needed a slick tube. Lots of guys used to put a tennis ball on them. They haven't been made in probably 6-7 years because of braces but I'm sure they'll make a comeback.
Any buffer tube is a stock. Regardless of configuration. Read the "law"
A round, bare buffer tube isn't one because it's materially necessary to the function of the gun and has no additional material to improve its shoulderability.
An adjustable carbine buffer tube could be.
The problem is that this thing is dead on arrival. It's toast. One of the suits next week will get an injunction put on it before 120 days is up and then it'll be fricked in the court.
Read the wording. Any buffer tube. They don't give a shit and will cite some BS bufferless design as evidence you had constructive intent and added a "stock" to your "SBR".
You're interpreting the language incorrectly. This is specifically about "accessories" (i.e. features that aren't critical to the function of the gun) that increase the surface area that could be shouldered.
>i.e. features that aren't critical to the function of the gun
Funny story about how California politicians are trying that same argument.
The AWB in CA was specifically to get rid of common firearms by banning "features" instead of the whole gun. They specifically went for parts needed, such as a magazine release. Now that they are getting called out on their ban, their argument is shifting to "you don't technically need the parts of the gun to have a gun".
Except you do.
Either the accessory is too rare to be worth banning or enough people want the feature to make it protected under the 2A. The middle ground is just infringement with different words.
Sounds like the CA law on "night vision scopes"
>night vision goggles = okay
>clip-on night vision = okay
>thermal optics = okay
>optics with integrated night vision = BANNED
>You're interpreting the language incorrectly
well I mean it literally says "shall not be infringed" unlike any of the other things, yet here we are
only if it's attached for the sole reason of the brace, Ar pistols still get a buffer toob, ol cheek pistols was right the whole time
You're better off sticking a dildo on the end and claiming discrimination, moron.
Should I just use the free SBR ticket to get myself a free SBRd standard AR lower?
I have an sba3 on a colt style AR9 with a magwell adapter.
Any downsides to doing that, besides being on a long lost of SBR owners?
If you're comfortable submitting photos, fingerprints, and details about your gun to the DOJ, then you might as well. Otherwise you'll have to continue using your carbine at risk, at which point you might as well put a real stock on it since it's considered an SBR now.
After some thought, I think Ill take the brace off for now and wait a month or so.
I can always just register it using a standard form and not have to deal with the potential of submitting incriminating evidence.
200$ is not too much currentley
I can't seem to find the law the atf is following where pistols need to be assigned points. Sounds like the atf might discover what happened to the epa a little while ago.
Or maybe it'll be a non issue for other reasons. Short barrel shotguns (And rifles, back when the government was poised to ban all handguns) were generally prohibited because the supreme court felt the military wouldn't use them. Conversely, full auto is generally prohibited because the military uses full auto. Neither type of firearm was prohibited when the founding fathers were still alive. These prohibitions might be reexamined soon.
I can't wait to own a correctly configured m4.
>because the military uses
lol
spirit of the law
2nd amendment is literally about enmasse military armed populace
is dat a bulpup?
ATF brace laws:
Protecting us from people who are fine illegally murdering people, but totally respect guidelines illegally enforced as laws and have no access to legally configured pistols.
Whew, we are finally safe from them.
it's funny, I used to think that the "they're taking ur guns" crowd was a bit nuts, but I think this makes me understand.
I haven't been around for stuff like the AWB, but with the bump stock thing, the FRT thing, the form 1 solvent trap thing, and now this thing.
I dunno man. I just uh. I dunno.
Welcome to the club. And remember, you can't ever unsee it.
Stop wasting resources on work arounds. Attack the nfa directly in courts. While we still hold the advantage.
You're not wrong, but how many people are willing to encumber themselves for years in the courts battling it out over appealing a fricky ATF ruling that got handed to them? Remember the one guy who just took a deal and walked away when the ATF tried to bust him on selling AR receivers as "firearms" when they technically aren't? I can't say I blame him at all for not wanting to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money in legal fees even if he did think he had a slam-dunk case.
court battles should be the job of the 2A grift organizations and arms and ammo manufacturers themselves. the average joe shouldn't have to individually endure the legal system on their own. the fact that these organizations are not actively fighting the nfa tells you everything you need to go. the nfa is the big fish from which all the other fish spawn. it's in everyone's interest to see it gotten rid of.
why not just run bare tube and have a permanent thicc rough cloth cover like the suppressor covers that exist
it would also be comfy, since the thick cloth cover would insulate the metal buffer tube from yourself in hot or cold conditions where it might accidentally touch you
I don't know about the legality of supporting your gun by holding a buffer tube against your forearm, but it would also provide increased friction for that purpose
could also probably get your anime waifu printed on the tube cover, and it wouldn't discolour too much since there's not much heat on it unlike on suppressors and it might even be a decent spot to wrap some small spare rope or an extra emergency tourniquet
the cover itself might actually be a storage device with maintenance tools in it
Those exist. Those have existed for a while. In fact rubber buffer tube sleeves were basically the closest thing to braces before braces were invented. People used them exactly like how you described. They suck for actual shooting, which is why braces became a thing in the first place. Besides, despite the fact that they're PROBABLY kosher, that's not the point; the point is that you're taking a crapshoot either way by conceding to the feds that they have the authority to determine through completely arbitrary means whether or not you're breaking the law after the fact on a case-by-case basis. Even if I were 99% certain they'd give my wrapped buffer tube the thumbs-up and agree it's a pistol, I'm not fricking rolling the dice if there's the faintest possibility they'll say it's an SBR. ESPECIALLY not in a state where I couldn't even register one if I wanted.
Why so many (78,000) IRS agents???
It will be the IRS that will enforce the rule.
because it is a TAX stamp !
Hold up, what if the buffer tube itself is machined in a way to make it usable as a stock? It can't be removed without rendering pistol inoperable.
Has anyone tried to machine a stock into the lower receiver extension?
This sounds gay and unnecessary. This shit shouldnt even be allowed.
what if the receiver + stock was all one piece? Is it a receiver or a stock? Both?