For what you pay in labor and materials, pex manifold and submanifold systems are moronic. They've actually been largely phased out because of how moronic they are. Trunk and branch with recirculation pump(s) is the best layout, if you want pretty and wanna pay for it, copper in a mechanical room looks pretty good.
It doesn’t.
Our main line is polythene, not pex, doesn’t need uv protection underground.
The anti-pex people don’t understand that there is more than one kind of plastic, like epoxy with bp a/s/f which line every tin can of food. Polyethylene lines tetra packs and milk containers too, and is remarkably safe in comparison.
Or probably copper or pvc shil. Pvc is horrible shit, too… watch the film “blue vinyl” — totally fine for dwv in warm places, electrical boxes, and vent pipes on those 95% efficient furnaces.
>entire water main is already plastic
look who hasn't done real plumbing
you in one of those "developments" huh?
real people live in real houses in communities that predate plastic
you're looking at cast iron, galvanized, copper, concrete, or clay
the biggest problem is leaded solder
>cast iron, galvanized, copper, concrete, or clay
all of that is against code for underground use and gets replaced with plastic when repairs are needed ;^)
here it's clay if old and cast iron if new
nobody uses plastic pipes with big diameters (don't remember the cutoff, but 1000 and up are surely never plastic)
hot and cold not insulated in a wall cavity makes a nice legionella breeding ground.
hot needs to stay hot (a energy waste as well) for them to die and cold needs to stay cold to not have them.
a manifold is stupid as well, you run a single line to every outlet if you never use the front yard outdoor faucet the water in that line stagnates forever and eventually goes back in your other pipes.
pic is how a save installation looks if you flush the toilet the water in the pipe to the sink will be replaced by cool fresh water from the main line, for hot water you wont have to wait an hour until the cooled of water from the pipes is replaced by hot water from the boiler
Germany treats its water with chlorine but only the minimal amount needed to provide save water from the waterworks to your house. And this is good since it limits the amount of disinfection by products
Legionella grows on the surface of the pipes in your house, the amount of chlorine needed to disinfect it would be huge. i don't want to drink pool water.
but it can be used to flush contaminated installations.
its much easier to make sure hot water pipes reach 140F once in a while, and Cold water pipes stay always below 68F.
>Legionella grows on the surface of the pipes in your house
yeah, but the bacteria doesn't abiogenesis itself out of nowhere onto your pipes. it comes from the municipal supply. no legionella in your pipes if the water is treated correctly. stop living in the 3rd world.
the word is not sterile my friend.
the pipes, taps, could contain bacteria before being installed, does the plumber install pex with fresh gloves and a mask ?
the municipal supply may have a small leak somewhere.
and good beware you hook up a nasty garden water hose to your outdoor tap .
this can be contained by nuking the water with chlorine like the us but then its nasty to drink and smells and tastes like pool water
Or you make sure the hot is hot and the cold stays cold and the water does not stagnate in stub pipes for weeks.
in Germany municipal water is more often monitored and has lower allowed levels for contaminants than bottled water.
we just have very high standards for sanitary installation (more pages of code than electrical)
They do absolutely nothing to it, they send the water in below 68, and therefore it's below 68. So you have to leave the cold running for a couple minutes if you didn't use it for a couple days, most people don't know this though.
It's German arrogance, they think nature follows their standard.
We haven't said otherwise, we're talking about the water in the tubes INSIDE your house where there's no way it stays below legionella growth temperature unless you use it multiple times per day.
1 year ago
Anonymous
's no way it stays below legionella growth temperature unless you use it multiple times per day.
how dense are you? that was explained in my first post
https://i.imgur.com/kaiZfQp.jpg
that would be illegal to code here in Germany
hot and cold not insulated in a wall cavity makes a nice legionella breeding ground.
hot needs to stay hot (a energy waste as well) for them to die and cold needs to stay cold to not have them.
a manifold is stupid as well, you run a single line to every outlet if you never use the front yard outdoor faucet the water in that line stagnates forever and eventually goes back in your other pipes.
pic is how a save installation looks if you flush the toilet the water in the pipe to the sink will be replaced by cool fresh water from the main line, for hot water you wont have to wait an hour until the cooled of water from the pipes is replaced by hot water from the boiler
This is why i said the American manifold with hot and cold both not insulated and long stub pipes to every outlet wouldn't fly with our code.
This is why we use high pressure and a small diameter pipe, try to keep it short, and hook up the outlets in series, so if you flush the toilet which you do multiple times a day the water in the pipe to the shower gets replace,
shower is the most critical since you breath in the droplets (legionella) so it goes first.
1 year ago
Anonymous
or for a single utility sink you use a ventury fitting.
if water is used above the pipe it creates a flow in the ring pipe to the tap.
also German code says the pipes from the water heater to the outlet should not contain more than 3 liters of water. (less than a gallon)
1 year ago
Anonymous
commercial installations often even use automatic flusher, it they want to put a drinking fountain or a coffee machine on a long ass line in the middle of the factory hall.
every few hours it opens and lets a few liters down the drain.
Is your house so tiny this is valuable? Your heater is right there 5 feet away from your sink who gives a shit about anything.
T. My big fat American house has 100 ft of pipe between my boiler and kitchen.
Newer installations have recirculation pumps.
is totally right. Most euros have 80l water heaters, a couple meters of pipe to the shower and not much more to the kitchen. >Newer installations have recirculation pumps.
I have this in Serbia. Connected to a single 200l water heater, it being Bulgarian doesn't inspire much confidence though.
No, most nowadays have gas heaters, not (longer) cylinders; my bathrooms are about 15-20 meters straight line from heater in kitchen. House is about 120 sqm.
thats a bullshit code, hot and cold goes uninsulated through the walls of every house here in norway an no legionella.
the industry standard is a central distribution panel like pic related going out to every sink or tap.
any leaks will be contained and end up in the panel and you can see where its coming from, shut off that single pipe and even replace it without tearing down walls. not that i ever heard anyone who had to do it modern pex has proven itself to be bullet proof compared to copper, its a reason no one will insure a house with copper pipes.
Who the frick cares, [...] is totally right. Most euros have 80l water heaters, a couple meters of pipe to the shower and not much more to the kitchen. >Newer installations have recirculation pumps.
I have this in Serbia. Connected to a single 200l water heater, it being Bulgarian doesn't inspire much confidence though.
200L electric is the norm for a family house here, often connected to air/water heat pump for pre-heating.
this has to be bait
put an isolator just behind the tap and you can fix a leak right there without running all over the place reading labels in a box.
i never read these threads but i always assumed this was flow/return panels for a wet heating system, not fricking individual feeds to taps.
jesus christ how fricking moronic can you get. >leak will end up contained
come on
yes its frickin code and standard for hot and cold taps.
yes leaks are mostly contained and most important easy to discover, see where its leaking, easy to isolate and just as easy to fix.
need to fix your toilet? close of that pipe in the panel the rest works as normal.
for some reason you got a leak? it will follow the outer tube into the panel where you will see it, then you can close off that pipe and if its done properly replace it without tearing down a single wall.
i seriously regard our building codes to be one of the best and anything else thirdie tier.
I thought so too but now I think that's a brass nipple coming out of the manifold, and a female copper fitting for it.
Which still infuriates me because what's the point of that shit if you don't have a union there. I'm just gonna have to cut the pipe to do any work anyway.
Why not have copper for just your drinking water lines (i.e. what goes to your RO system and then to your fridge water dispenser and a couple other dedicated drinking water taps around the house) and then pex for everything else?
My god those are beautiful.
I know, right? Just absolutely fricking gorgeous.
Those are trash. Crimp/clamp only which restricts flow and I able to use a recirc.
Uponor propex is the way.
bored again? homosexual.
For what you pay in labor and materials, pex manifold and submanifold systems are moronic. They've actually been largely phased out because of how moronic they are. Trunk and branch with recirculation pump(s) is the best layout, if you want pretty and wanna pay for it, copper in a mechanical room looks pretty good.
All my plumbing is 1/4" wall stainless
You are a god among men. I salute you.
oh boy look who's ban expired! welcome back homosexual
>pex
It's really a chicken and egg thing.
Does pex endocrine disruptions make you a homosexual? Or do homosexuals install pex?
what difference does a little PEX or copper on the homeowner side make when the entire water main is already plastic?
It doesn’t.
Our main line is polythene, not pex, doesn’t need uv protection underground.
The anti-pex people don’t understand that there is more than one kind of plastic, like epoxy with bp a/s/f which line every tin can of food. Polyethylene lines tetra packs and milk containers too, and is remarkably safe in comparison.
Or probably copper or pvc shil. Pvc is horrible shit, too… watch the film “blue vinyl” — totally fine for dwv in warm places, electrical boxes, and vent pipes on those 95% efficient furnaces.
>entire water main is already plastic
look who hasn't done real plumbing
you in one of those "developments" huh?
real people live in real houses in communities that predate plastic
you're looking at cast iron, galvanized, copper, concrete, or clay
the biggest problem is leaded solder
>cast iron, galvanized, copper, concrete, or clay
all of that is against code for underground use and gets replaced with plastic when repairs are needed ;^)
here it's clay if old and cast iron if new
nobody uses plastic pipes with big diameters (don't remember the cutoff, but 1000 and up are surely never plastic)
mmm microplastics
proof?
that would be illegal to code here in Germany
hot and cold not insulated in a wall cavity makes a nice legionella breeding ground.
hot needs to stay hot (a energy waste as well) for them to die and cold needs to stay cold to not have them.
a manifold is stupid as well, you run a single line to every outlet if you never use the front yard outdoor faucet the water in that line stagnates forever and eventually goes back in your other pipes.
pic is how a save installation looks if you flush the toilet the water in the pipe to the sink will be replaced by cool fresh water from the main line, for hot water you wont have to wait an hour until the cooled of water from the pipes is replaced by hot water from the boiler
Is your house so tiny this is valuable? Your heater is right there 5 feet away from your sink who gives a shit about anything.
T. My big fat American house has 100 ft of pipe between my boiler and kitchen.
Newer installations have recirculation pumps.
why does germany have legionella in their water? do they not treat it?
Germany treats its water with chlorine but only the minimal amount needed to provide save water from the waterworks to your house. And this is good since it limits the amount of disinfection by products
Legionella grows on the surface of the pipes in your house, the amount of chlorine needed to disinfect it would be huge. i don't want to drink pool water.
but it can be used to flush contaminated installations.
its much easier to make sure hot water pipes reach 140F once in a while, and Cold water pipes stay always below 68F.
>Legionella grows on the surface of the pipes in your house
yeah, but the bacteria doesn't abiogenesis itself out of nowhere onto your pipes. it comes from the municipal supply. no legionella in your pipes if the water is treated correctly. stop living in the 3rd world.
the word is not sterile my friend.
the pipes, taps, could contain bacteria before being installed, does the plumber install pex with fresh gloves and a mask ?
the municipal supply may have a small leak somewhere.
and good beware you hook up a nasty garden water hose to your outdoor tap .
this can be contained by nuking the water with chlorine like the us but then its nasty to drink and smells and tastes like pool water
Or you make sure the hot is hot and the cold stays cold and the water does not stagnate in stub pipes for weeks.
in Germany municipal water is more often monitored and has lower allowed levels for contaminants than bottled water.
we just have very high standards for sanitary installation (more pages of code than electrical)
>its much easier ... Cold water pipes stay always below 68F.
not sure how when your plumbing has to be indoors to prevent freezing
They do absolutely nothing to it, they send the water in below 68, and therefore it's below 68. So you have to leave the cold running for a couple minutes if you didn't use it for a couple days, most people don't know this though.
It's German arrogance, they think nature follows their standard.
city mains water has like 46F
We haven't said otherwise, we're talking about the water in the tubes INSIDE your house where there's no way it stays below legionella growth temperature unless you use it multiple times per day.
's no way it stays below legionella growth temperature unless you use it multiple times per day.
how dense are you? that was explained in my first post
This is why i said the American manifold with hot and cold both not insulated and long stub pipes to every outlet wouldn't fly with our code.
This is why we use high pressure and a small diameter pipe, try to keep it short, and hook up the outlets in series, so if you flush the toilet which you do multiple times a day the water in the pipe to the shower gets replace,
shower is the most critical since you breath in the droplets (legionella) so it goes first.
or for a single utility sink you use a ventury fitting.
if water is used above the pipe it creates a flow in the ring pipe to the tap.
also German code says the pipes from the water heater to the outlet should not contain more than 3 liters of water. (less than a gallon)
commercial installations often even use automatic flusher, it they want to put a drinking fountain or a coffee machine on a long ass line in the middle of the factory hall.
every few hours it opens and lets a few liters down the drain.
what is wrong with germans
Maximum autism.
>lets a few liters down the drain
what a waste
Chlorine in the water means you can't drink it anymore, so who cares what kind of bacteria it has at that point.
>Having to turn on water to the tub and sink to get water to the toilet.
Is the bidet-related?
Who the frick cares,
is totally right. Most euros have 80l water heaters, a couple meters of pipe to the shower and not much more to the kitchen.
>Newer installations have recirculation pumps.
I have this in Serbia. Connected to a single 200l water heater, it being Bulgarian doesn't inspire much confidence though.
No, most nowadays have gas heaters, not (longer) cylinders; my bathrooms are about 15-20 meters straight line from heater in kitchen. House is about 120 sqm.
thats a bullshit code, hot and cold goes uninsulated through the walls of every house here in norway an no legionella.
the industry standard is a central distribution panel like pic related going out to every sink or tap.
any leaks will be contained and end up in the panel and you can see where its coming from, shut off that single pipe and even replace it without tearing down walls. not that i ever heard anyone who had to do it modern pex has proven itself to be bullet proof compared to copper, its a reason no one will insure a house with copper pipes.
200L electric is the norm for a family house here, often connected to air/water heat pump for pre-heating.
>no one will insure a house with copper pipes
this has to be bait
put an isolator just behind the tap and you can fix a leak right there without running all over the place reading labels in a box.
i never read these threads but i always assumed this was flow/return panels for a wet heating system, not fricking individual feeds to taps.
jesus christ how fricking moronic can you get.
>leak will end up contained
come on
yes its frickin code and standard for hot and cold taps.
yes leaks are mostly contained and most important easy to discover, see where its leaking, easy to isolate and just as easy to fix.
need to fix your toilet? close of that pipe in the panel the rest works as normal.
for some reason you got a leak? it will follow the outer tube into the panel where you will see it, then you can close off that pipe and if its done properly replace it without tearing down a single wall.
i seriously regard our building codes to be one of the best and anything else thirdie tier.
>yes leaks are mostly contained
soldered copper doesnt leak lol. cope.
only thoose who dont work with copper claim this.
id be so pissed if I had this in my basement taking up valuable wall space.
Omfg… they did all that, and then a massive awefrick when the negated everything by using a sharkbite and/or crimp coupling.
Autistic homeowner level.
I thought so too but now I think that's a brass nipple coming out of the manifold, and a female copper fitting for it.
Which still infuriates me because what's the point of that shit if you don't have a union there. I'm just gonna have to cut the pipe to do any work anyway.
Looks israeli.
Why not have copper for just your drinking water lines (i.e. what goes to your RO system and then to your fridge water dispenser and a couple other dedicated drinking water taps around the house) and then pex for everything else?
the goal is to be completely israeli and get as much estrogen into the drinking water as possible so copper wont work.