the M113 are good but Military History Visualized did a video about the Leo 2 deliveries and said 10 aren't worth the logistical burden
maybe 50 would be worth it
Neglecting logistics makes you lose wars.
Ramping up logistics, training crews, maintenance crews on a particular platform you only have a handful of is absolute moronation. HIMARS are an exception considering they don't have an equivalent and the benefits far, far outweigh the burden of logistics. But they already have tons of tanks, so dedicating logistics to 10 leos is a horrible decision.
the M113 are good but Military History Visualized did a video about the Leo 2 deliveries and said 10 aren't worth the logistical burden
maybe 50 would be worth it
Either the first anon's plan or just have a unit run them into the ground and have them scrap one another for parts until you just have a bunker. Then just use it as a bunker or take the turret and armor off and use it for another vehicle
10 Leo's parked in the rear will free up tanks for elsewhere and it will also give the ukies time to iron out the operational issues of the vehicle - learning to use it, training mechanics etc - for any potential future orders.
>Military History Visualized
This guy is so german its not even funny and in this cause he should just bfto >t. german
>The Spanish Defense Ministry has decided to send 10 Leopard 2A4 tanks and 20 M113 APCs to Ukraine. >It shows that the claims made by Scholz and Macron about an “informal NATO ban on sending Western tanks to Ukraine” where never actually a real thing.
Get fricked, Germany
More like get fricked, SPD. Sadly Hitler never finish this party
thats why i said, send em all in one batch instead of piece meal
i agree with military history visualized, 10 are not worth the logistical burden, 50 or so, might be worth the trouble of training and fielding a tank battalion armed with Leopards
>The Spanish Defense Ministry has decided to send 10 Leopard 2A4 tanks and 20 M113 APCs to Ukraine. >It shows that the claims made by Scholz and Macron about an “informal NATO ban on sending Western tanks to Ukraine” where never actually a real thing.
it would manoeuvre Germany into a dilemma. These treacherous cucks wouldn't be able to deny the delivery with alleged "self-defence interests" and it would epoxse the lie about informal HATO agreements on not sending any mbts and ifvs
This is more important as a precedent. There are hundreds of surplus Leo 2s in a dozen NATO inventories. It's a matter of getting enough countries involved especially with sustainment and training to make it worthwhile.
It would be easier for the US to give surplus Abrams but it seems doubtful Biden will ever go there. But all that's holding the Leo's back is Germany's concent.
I believe it when I see it after the morons in Madrid have been acting like monkeys about it.
>It shows that the claims made by Scholz and Macron about an “informal NATO ban on sending Western tanks to Ukraine” where never actually a real thing.
It doesn't. It we might see it get lifted though. Also the tanks aren't sent yet. >Get fricked, Germany
Spain literally can't send them without German permission.
I really fricking hate all these tourists trying to turn /k/ into a worse mix of /misc/ and PrepHole than /bant/ somehow.
click bait.
infodefensa actually says. >Margarita Robles' Ministry of Defence is open to negotiating a possible donation to Ukraine of ten Leopard 2A4 battle tanks and some twenty M113 armoured personnel carriers, both from the army's inventory, to defend itself against the Russian invasion of its territory.
>According to sources consulted by Infodefensa.com, defence officials are currently exploring the possibility of handing over these systems, both of which are no longer in use, in storage or inactive, to the Ukrainian government in response to Kiev's repeated request for more military aid to stop Moscow's troops.
Robles' Ministry of Defence is open to negotiating a possible donation to Ukraine of ten Leopard 2A4 battle tanks and some twenty M113 armoured personnel carriers, both from the army's inventory, to defend itself against the Russian invasion of its territory.
It's literally nothing.
/k/ is falling for fake news again and in 4 weeks we'll have nogunz sperging out about why the stuff nobody ever promised isn't sent yet.
This is more important as a precedent. There are hundreds of surplus Leo 2s in a dozen NATO inventories. It's a matter of getting enough countries involved especially with sustainment and training to make it worthwhile.
It would be easier for the US to give surplus Abrams but it seems doubtful Biden will ever go there. But all that's holding the Leo's back is Germany's concent.
Too bad that in this war most of tanks and APCs are wiped out by artillery before they can even see proper combat. Artillery is still King of the battle
Why does the M113 have aluminum armor? Is it just straight aluminum (probably an industrial or aircraft type) or one of those weird alloys, like they use in body armor plates?
>Is it bad
Total fudlore. The M113 had teething problems when it first came out, but there's a reason they're still in service all over the world 60 years later.
It is bad, US Army banned m113s from iraq after the initial invasion because they were under armored and underperformed. The engines were aenemic and on a good day 25mph was the best they could do.
My unit left our m113s on base, they would only be used for field problems and training. Otherwisw they were considered death traps.
Its seriously annoying as frick how much people like those pieces of shit. >t. M113 and m577 driver
afaik those are in poor condition unfortunately, Poles and Czechs wanted to buy them but their state was really bad.
I hope Spain is going to somewhat prepare them tho
Oh shit that's happening now? Rad
the M113 are good but Military History Visualized did a video about the Leo 2 deliveries and said 10 aren't worth the logistical burden
maybe 50 would be worth it
10 leos is better then 0 my friend.
Not when they require a disproportional amount of support that could better be used elsewhere.
Not really. One company of tanks isn't worth the hassle
Neglecting logistics makes you lose wars.
Ramping up logistics, training crews, maintenance crews on a particular platform you only have a handful of is absolute moronation. HIMARS are an exception considering they don't have an equivalent and the benefits far, far outweigh the burden of logistics. But they already have tons of tanks, so dedicating logistics to 10 leos is a horrible decision.
NATO picks up the logistics bro.
>Don’t have an equivalent
What is the Tochka-U
Well the precedent is important too
hopefully more soon
I'm not surprised the average /k/-tard would create his opinions around a failed history major and HOI-autist.
who?
>another armchair warlord made a video
oh shit i didnt knew! guess that settles it.
>get ten Leos
>park them in Kiev in case Luka decides to do something funny
>transfer ten T-64 to Kherson or Donbass
Either the first anon's plan or just have a unit run them into the ground and have them scrap one another for parts until you just have a bunker. Then just use it as a bunker or take the turret and armor off and use it for another vehicle
This.
10 Leo's parked in the rear will free up tanks for elsewhere and it will also give the ukies time to iron out the operational issues of the vehicle - learning to use it, training mechanics etc - for any potential future orders.
>Military History Visualized
This guy is so german its not even funny and in this cause he should just bfto
>t. german
More like get fricked, SPD. Sadly Hitler never finish this party
maybe they can pool em together as other countries offer leopards and they send one big shipment
More free stuff for the Russians if the Ukrainians don't have the logistical supply/spare parts/ammo to use them.
thats why i said, send em all in one batch instead of piece meal
i agree with military history visualized, 10 are not worth the logistical burden, 50 or so, might be worth the trouble of training and fielding a tank battalion armed with Leopards
M113s can be mounted with HMGs and ATGMs. A Leopard 2 can go toe to toe with anything Russia is fielding and come out on top.
Except anything with a Kornet
The 10 will probably see use as training vehicles.
Maybe some of the supposed "600" might be old Leos.
>The Spanish Defense Ministry has decided to send 10 Leopard 2A4 tanks and 20 M113 APCs to Ukraine.
>It shows that the claims made by Scholz and Macron about an “informal NATO ban on sending Western tanks to Ukraine” where never actually a real thing.
Get fricked, Germany
>Get fricked, Germany
You do realise Germany had to give its okay before Spain could transfer these?
it would manoeuvre Germany into a dilemma. These treacherous cucks wouldn't be able to deny the delivery with alleged "self-defence interests" and it would epoxse the lie about informal HATO agreements on not sending any mbts and ifvs
>These treacherous cucks
Lay off the Visegrad24 m8.
these. frick germoids.
>the slav asks you for gibs as he strikes you
Genuinely disgusting behavior.
I believe it when I see it after the morons in Madrid have been acting like monkeys about it.
>It shows that the claims made by Scholz and Macron about an “informal NATO ban on sending Western tanks to Ukraine” where never actually a real thing.
It doesn't. It we might see it get lifted though. Also the tanks aren't sent yet.
>Get fricked, Germany
Spain literally can't send them without German permission.
I really fricking hate all these tourists trying to turn /k/ into a worse mix of /misc/ and PrepHole than /bant/ somehow.
click bait.
infodefensa actually says.
>Margarita Robles' Ministry of Defence is open to negotiating a possible donation to Ukraine of ten Leopard 2A4 battle tanks and some twenty M113 armoured personnel carriers, both from the army's inventory, to defend itself against the Russian invasion of its territory.
>According to sources consulted by Infodefensa.com, defence officials are currently exploring the possibility of handing over these systems, both of which are no longer in use, in storage or inactive, to the Ukrainian government in response to Kiev's repeated request for more military aid to stop Moscow's troops.
Listen i'm just here to M113 shitpost not give accurate information.
so do they still need daddy germany's permission to give away their own shit
That's not what it's about you absolute Black person.
Wow people not reading the article and instead just assuming it's already done and decided? Shocked
Robles' Ministry of Defence is open to negotiating a possible donation to Ukraine of ten Leopard 2A4 battle tanks and some twenty M113 armoured personnel carriers, both from the army's inventory, to defend itself against the Russian invasion of its territory.
It's literally nothing.
/k/ is falling for fake news again and in 4 weeks we'll have nogunz sperging out about why the stuff nobody ever promised isn't sent yet.
WTF Scholz? Cancel!!!! Cancel!!!!
>right after the ukraine armoured brigades said not to send western style tanks
ouch
the reconquista begins
This is more important as a precedent. There are hundreds of surplus Leo 2s in a dozen NATO inventories. It's a matter of getting enough countries involved especially with sustainment and training to make it worthwhile.
It would be easier for the US to give surplus Abrams but it seems doubtful Biden will ever go there. But all that's holding the Leo's back is Germany's concent.
I'd love to se Leopard doing what it was meant to do. Removing T72s. Sadly I don't think this transfer is going to happen.
Too bad that in this war most of tanks and APCs are wiped out by artillery before they can even see proper combat. Artillery is still King of the battle
Why does the M113 have aluminum armor? Is it just straight aluminum (probably an industrial or aircraft type) or one of those weird alloys, like they use in body armor plates?
Weight obviously.
I've heard the Vietcong could shoot through it with AK's, but that could be fuddlore. Is it bad?
>Is it bad
Total fudlore. The M113 had teething problems when it first came out, but there's a reason they're still in service all over the world 60 years later.
Both "AK could shoot through it no problem" and "m113 is totally fine" are fudd.
It is bad, US Army banned m113s from iraq after the initial invasion because they were under armored and underperformed. The engines were aenemic and on a good day 25mph was the best they could do.
My unit left our m113s on base, they would only be used for field problems and training. Otherwisw they were considered death traps.
Its seriously annoying as frick how much people like those pieces of shit.
>t. M113 and m577 driver
GAVCHADS CANNOT BE STOPPED GAVINS WILL BE ON MARS
test
afaik those are in poor condition unfortunately, Poles and Czechs wanted to buy them but their state was really bad.
I hope Spain is going to somewhat prepare them tho
Ukraine will have an India-tier mix of equipment by the time this war is over
>carros de combate
thats the proper name for tanks in spanish
but "tanque" is most commonly used
it can also work for any kind of armoured vehicle
>2A4
Holy shit