My dad reached out to tell me our neighbor has a Winchester 61 he is willing to sell, but he "has to figure out a price first". The guy is almost certainly going to ask something outrageous, but its a cool gun in excellent condition, and my dad wants a .22, mostly because the only rifles he owns are ones I gave him (AK, SKS, and an AR).
I know it's hard to do so without being able to actually see the gun, but assume it's in good condition for a gun that is 60+ years old. What do you think it would be worth?
Pic related is not the actual gun
>What do you think it would be worth?
Get on gunbroker, find the advanced search tab, set it to search completed listings. Now you are seeing what people actually pay for them.
I did that already, which is where I came up with the $500-$2500 range. What I am asking is what /k/ommandos who are interested in these kind of guns would be willing to pay, and what would be a good offer to make.
probably like $300
Assuming the barrel and action are in good shape, 3 bills or less would be a fair deal. Old Winchesters are neat. I've got a beat-to-shit 1400 that I got for $250 from a pawn shop and it still runs smooth.
Tell him that you can get a brand new 1022 for 300 dollars and if he doesn't want to unload this piece of shit for that price that he can just keep it.
>has to figure out a price first
$200 tops dude
Thanks for the response, I will pass it on. I know Fudd will be going on gunbroker, see them going for 1000+ and demand no less, but I figured it's worth a shot. My Dad shot it with him the other day and said it was really smooth action and trigger, and that he will check the barrel. Based on the serial number and other features I think its a pre-WW2 model.
This is like old bourbon bottles. Dudes find a 110 year old bottle of rye and think it's worth $4000 and shit. Win 61 is a great 22, but that's all it is. Unless it was used to murder Black Bart, it's just a production varmint gun at the end of the day.
That said I'd do $600 if it was in great shape and I had a hankering
There is a solid body of evidence showing people paying thousands for high condition 61s. I'd sure as frick pay $600 for one too.
>people paying thousands for high condition 61s
Only ones I saw that high had provenance and original packaging, which is definitely over the line into autismo collecting and not shooting for fun
Have you ever tried the blue book of guns? I'm too lazy to make an account but this site might help you.
https://bluebookofgunvalues.com/
Hold on, bump so I can get my book after made me remember.
Blue Book made sense years ago, but now that anybody can search selling prices from Gunbroker, auctions, etc and can match photos to prices to assess condition it's just a redundant source that isn't as up to date as the others.
Fair enough, in that case what source would you recommend? (Similar to OP I've never sold a "historical" gun, I'm here to learn too)
I use three main resources.
1) Gunbroker, go to advanced search and set it to completed items only.
2) GunsInternational. This is another gun sale site, it's a lot less advanced than gunbroker but it gets used a lot for historical guns. Here you will have to manually look for listings marked "Sold" in order to tell what people are actually paying compared to what the sellers are asking.
3)Use google to search gun specialist auction houses like Rock Island Auction or Morphy Auction. So in this case I'd google something like "Site:www.rockislandauction.com Winchester 61" This also works for the big dealers who specialize in old guns like Simpson Ltd or Collector's Firearms.
You will see results with varying prices of course, if you see something that was unusually cheap or unusually expensive you can figure out why by reading the descriptions. For example in the case of the Winchester 61 it looks like there is a variant which is smoothbore meant for .22 shotshells. Those are rarer and therefore a lot more expensive than the standard model.
If you plan on buying an expensive historical gun I'd do as much homework as possible first. Google for the name of the gun you want and "fake" so you can see examples of known fakes. Read the past auction listings for known good guns and study the pictures carefully as well. Also for any historical interest there's usually a book that collectors regard as the "bible" for that kind of gun. Figure out what the book is, get a copy or PDF or whatever and learn about all the details. Even if you have to shell out cash, the $100 book is very worthwhile if it saves you from dropping a few K on a fake. If I decided I wanted to buy a high grade 61 I'd be looking for picrel first.
44th edition of Gun Trader's Guide says:
>MODEL 61 HAMMERLESS SLIDE-ACTION REPEATER
>w/ round bbl...............NiB $1330 Ex $987 Gd $478
>w/ grooved receiver.....NiB $1268 Ex $1160 Gd $800
>w/ octagon bbl.............NiB $1766 Ex $1447 Gd $1006
I personally think that's a bit high but maybe I'm missing something about the Winchester collector's market...I'd be around $250-400. Closer to $250-300 if there's modifications or damage. Their prices tend to be all over the place; some stuff is pretty low compared to what I see and some stuff is pretty high compared to what I see.
>a bit high
That's retail pricing, usually 40% higher than what you'll actually get for it. Dates back to the pre internet days when guns shops made money selling guns
If your dad's only criterion is "wants a 22", you'd be dollars ahead (and youbrad would be happier) with a Gucci volquartzen or kidd 10/22 or a Henry lever 22
If he "just wants a .22" then I agree, there's not much of a point in seeking this out out specifically. A basic 10/22, the Henry you mentioned, T/CR22, etc makes a lot more sense. A high condition model 61 is a that gun someone buys if they are an enthusiast/collector of that particular era and are buying more for historical appreciation or investment. If you just want to plink or shoot small game you can get a much cheaper rifle that you don't have to worry about getting dirty or scratched. And if you're willing to spend more and you are after performance then a upgraded model like a Volquartsen or Kidd or a full-on target rifle like an Anschutz will shoot circles around the Winchester.
I should specify that now that he had seen it, he wants this .22. He has an old shotgun, I forget the brand, but the 61 is basically a miniature version of it in terms of aesthetics.
Pre-WWII Winchesters are really well made, I can see why he would like it. They're not my jam but I can absolutely see the appeal. Anyway, if he wants this gun specifically, I'd say learn as much as you can about them--others already shared a few methods--while you wait for the neighbor to tell you what he wants for it. I wouldn't necessarily assume he will ask a sky-high price, I've bought a number of guns off boomers who were very out of touch with how much the gun was worth. So if he comes back with $500 or something then jump on it. If he says he wants $1500 or $2500 or some other higher figure, then you have more work to do. That might be a terrible price, it might be a deal, it all depends on the specifics of his exact gun, you'll have to do your homework to find out. But also make sure you don't let your dad fall in to the trap of buying this specific one. Even if he decides he must have a model 61 there might be others on the market that are a better deal somewhere else. I saw a lot of them on GunsInternational and Gunbroker, including several new-in-box condition, so if your neighbor wants too much money there are always alternatives.
10/22s are cringe
t. sold my 10/22 after buying a comfy old winchester for $150
Get something else instead if you don't like 10/22s. The point wasn't to focus on the 10/22 specifically, it was just one of many suggestions that make more sense than buying an expensive collector gun just because you want a 22. But we now know more: Anon's dad wants this gun specifically, so clearly any suggestions of alternatives are moot at this point.
>Get something else instead if you don't like 10/22s
I did, that was the purpose of my post
The fact it is old and could be considered a collectors item definitely plays a part in his wanting it, but I don't think he would go out of his way to buy a different 61 if the neighbor wants something unreasonable for it.
I would really like this deal to go through because I want to shoot it, and I want my dad to keep buying guns from him so when the neighbor passes away/cant shoot anymore, it's more likely that he or his wife will give us his remaining guns at a low price or for free. My dad is gonna go with $500 and pressure wash his driveway for him.
>$500 and pressure wash his driveway
That is how proper men make deals, friend. Well done all around
sounds good to me too, I traded a walther ccp and a 700 round tin of wolf 7.62x39 for a nice win 62a from the 50's, I'd still do that trade today.