I'm planning my first 3/4 day hike, for now I've only done 2 days straight out max.
ive found this place with cool lakes, so my plan is to get there one the first day, set up camp, explore the lakes the second day, set up camp, and come back the third, I allotted a fourth one because I dont know if one day will be enough to explore the lakes or if it will take 2, given that I want to do take it easy when I'm up there and take a good look.
the terrain is rocky, and since it's now winter it'll be covered in snow and ice so it's a bit of a shit to traverse, but I got the equipment, snowshoes, winter leather boots, crampons, winter layers etc.
once up there I expect it will be cold as shit since it's around 2600/2900m depending on the lake.
I will post the map and the location link so you can take a look, if anyone has any advice I'd be interested, im just trying not to die.
the length of the path is approx 15km, so to return its 30km total, and the height change is 2km approx
doesnt let me post the link, just look up "rifugio franco tonolini" on Google maps, near a town called "sonico" in the alps
I'm not familiar with that part of the alps, timeframe seems realistic considering the conditions. Only go if the weather is expected to be clear, good sleeping bag because you can have up to -15 C around 3000m now if you're unlucky, you might not even see temperatures rise over 0 at that height.
Also what do you mean by 'exploring' the lakes, they are most likely covered in snow which can be dangerous, as ice might not be as thick everywhere, if you slip in you're death
I should add; you will burn through calories like crazy, keeping warm and traversing deep snow, make sure to calculate your required calories beforehand
Yeah, count on bringing 2-3 lbs of food. And I'd recommend deciding on a pace you want to set beforehand. See how far you get in 2 hours and resolve to turn back if you didn't get as far as you'd planned. Otherwise, you may end up needing to turn back at a point where you're too far in and too tired to make it back out.
I mean exploring in the sense of going up there and looking around and chilling a bit, not just walking all the time being in a hurry.
I got a carinthia defence 4 as sleeping bag, and I ordered kathoola spikes, the bigger ones, and the magnesium snowshoes US Army surp, boots are hanwag Alaska
nice, please report back i'm curious how good those are
if you plan on doing vivac, make sure to check how those huts nearby work, in many huts they leave a backroom or something open that people can use in case they need it. or are you bringing a tent?
>carinthia defence 4
>1.85 kg
>synthetic fill
>-15C comfort limit
>meme snowshoes not meant for climbing mountains
You're going to have a bad time. If you're lucky, you'll be sliding backwards so much on the steep snow you give up and go back down. If you're unlucky you're either going to end up exhausting yourself before you reach a suitable place to bivouac and shiver throughout the night, then stumble back to the valley the next morning while being sore all over. Worst case you get caught in an avalanche and get turned into a popsicle.
it's a good bag, I've already used it and it was comfortable, and you can plus up wearing a lvl7 while sleeping if it's too cold
I wasnt close to needing rescue
no I dont mean these, the other bigger model
anyway how do I get experience if theres no one to go innamountains with aside from day hikes with cai
>Meme snowshoes
Don't even think about it. I'm serious.
>I wasnt close to needing rescue
You were. Your shoes quite literally had no sole, it was all consumed to the foam. I don't think you understand you can die because of that.
>no I dont mean these, the other bigger model
Barely any better. You need crampons, which you could have gotten for a similar price.
>anyway how do I get experience if theres no one to go innamountains with aside from day hikes with cai
You do what you can without risking death, for starters. If people don't want to come with you it's obviously for a reason, and that's in addition to the fact terroni are not tolerated.
>If people don't want to come with you it's obviously for a reason,
it's not that people don't want to come with me, it's that no one gives a shit about going out, that I know at least, that's why I'll go with the cai, to meet people to go with.
a friend of mine actually came with me once for a 2 day, but it was summer, in winter no one will come, and if it's more than 1 day they cant because they don't have the gear, in fact I've always went alone aside from one time.
lvl7 is good dude, keeps you warm, why do you shit on it?
I know down jackets are lighter and pack smaller, but I like military shit plus I get them for a good price
>why do you shit on it?
For one, it weighs over 2 lbs and takes up a lot of volume in your pack. Every lb will put more stress on your joints, slow you down, make climbing harder and in snow, will make you sink deeper. You could have saved for proper gear and built up experience while expanding your collection. Yes it's cheaper than consoomer-grade stuff, but you're taking financial shortcuts that will end up costing more when you inevitably will want to upgrade to lighter stuff. That is, if you want to be doing this as a hobby for several decades more. Like I said before, I jused to be in your exact shoes: young, little money and overestimating myself. Why do you refuse to take advice from people that already made their mistakes and learnt from them?
>in winter no one will come, and if it's more than 1 day they cant because they don't have the gear
I wonder why. You're not special, learn from these people. Find something else to do, you're not even remotely ready.
>wearing a lvl7
God fricking dammit it's this guy. I thought I told you to stop buying milsurp trash like a fricking mall ninja. I used to BE you, stop making the same mistakes I did back then.
no gaiters? no crampons? come on man there's plenty of places to do hikes in the alps that you'll surely enjoy
at 2000 the temp was -12 a couple months ago, so I think it could be even lower, even tho it's toward the end of winter
Picrel is useless.
Skis or snowshoes with crampons obviously with poles. By law you need an avalanche beacon, a probe and a shovel- which you have no clue on how to use. You must read the avalanche bulletin, know how to recognize and avoid dangerous areas, that's not something you learn here.
This is out of your league to do safely and you're not only risking your life but other people's unless you're going with a guide or a tutor, in which case you don't need our advice.
For the record, it's news of a couple days ago two unrelated people, presumably with more experience than you, died in that general area.
It's certainly NOT the end of winter on the Alps.
Yes if you have no experience I would not go alone in winter. I go do long treks in the vanoise/g. paradiso/mt blanc area for over 15 years now and I will not go on multi day hikes alone or in winter
He's the guy that keep opening threads on the most basic stuff. He's made one about his first hike he has had the past summer which he failed to complete due to being in poor shape and then another on an easy day trip on frozen snow where he came close to needing rescue.
He's a covid tourist that keeps ignoring any advice he's given unless it's about buying stuff.
An accident waiting to happen.
>He's made one about his first hike he has had the past summer which he failed to complete due to being in poor shape
Lmao I remember that thread. He only had mil surp LARP gear and brought no food.
I'm not in poor shape anymore, been training for one year now
as a ski patroller and backcountry lover this is absolutely the smartest post ITT
wait i did not realize what kathoola spikes are, you are a fricking moron if you think that's appropiate for 3k elevation in winter. i haven't tried them myself but it's just stupid.
you should get crampons, get these: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005002953073575.html get the 12 teeth. they are very cheap but pretty good, i haven't used them a lot yet but i'm very happy with them so far. i see no difference between them and more expensive ones from western brands. look a youtube vid on how to put them on
also you need gaiters as the other anon says, these are fine: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005001387051609.html
research the huts near the lakes, see if you can sleep in them
I wouldn't get gear my life depends on from china.
people have an obsession dismissing things because they are "from china". most of what you buy from amazon and from your local hardware store is from china too. for any product, look into reviews and security certificates and whatever you want, but don't just dismiss it because it is "from china". those crampons are fine, i won't say they are as good as western brands because i don't have enough experience, but they work fine. i've also bought climbing carabiners from chinese brands too, they have the same security certs, they use literally the same materials and process to build them as black diamond or whatever
also it's ironic that people don't trust chinese products even though their mountains are quite bigger than ours
Petzl carabiners are made in France. BD's are made in the USA. Chinese biners are much better quality than European or US made, though; they'll last you a lifetime of climbing.
It would be hard if not impossible to hold a chinese manufacturer accountable in a European or US court of law in case of accident due to a faulty product unlike a European or US one, furthermore the brand reputation would not get tarnished since there is no brand to begin with, and they could simply change name which is what they have always been doing.
It would take too much time to check they actually went on to certify a product instead of pretending they did as they have been known to do since they flooded the market with their stuff.
They have the reputation they built for themselves. A pair of gaiters won't kill you, unreliable climbing kit might.
the climbing kit i was talking about is certified, i checked and it's not fake also checked reviews and real life tests by people who know what they are talking about. what you say is true for some brands and for some products, but not for others, that's why i said you shouldn't dismiss some product or brand because it's chinese. that attitude is also part of the reason why prices are so inflated, people are willing to pay more if it has the big famous brand on it without knowing shit about how much it costs to produce or how is it better than other similar product, it's like the apple logo in tech
the gaiters i know they are not really great but in my experience they do their job just fine and they are amazing for the price, compared to the equivalent thing by a known brand
the crampons are a simple piece of metal with some hard plastic pieces and a strap, they are cheap to make. i've tested good used crampons (don't know which brand) and then these, and they work exactlyt he same even though these cost less than half the price. also they are strap-on crampons, it's not like hes gonna do ice climbing with them (i say this because i confess i don't remember if these are certified or not, not sure if i checked it)
>these are fine: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005001387051609.html
>promotional image shows them being worn with the strap on the inside of the legs
If you can't tell me why that's a bad idea, I don't think you should be anywhere near snowy or glaciated mountains. Nor would I trust any manufacturer that promotes their goods in this way.
I wanted to buy outdoor research crocodile gaiters, was just waiting to find them for a good price
yeah a down jacket would weigh less and pack down smaller but I don't thinks that's that much of a problem honestly
>a down jacket would weigh less and pack down smaller but I don't thinks that's that much of a problem honestly
If you apply that philosophy you'll end up like I did in 2009 with a Lowe Alpine Saracen filled with 50 lbs of junk.
>apply that philosophy
apply that philosophy to all your gear*
look my gear usually is around 40lbs, including food and water, the weight I could save is by having a lighter sleeping bag, ruck, and lvl7, that would save me 3kg maybe, which is nice but I don't think it makes that much of a difference, but I get your point and you're probably correct, it's just that I prefer military gear, and I'm well aware that the ruggedness of mil gear, that makes it more durable, doesnt come into play that much with hiking because I wouldn't use it with such a frequency and intensity for it to matter, but I like mil shit and I'm about to enlist so use that, plus it costs less and I got good sources to buy from at low prices, and I also collect mil gear
anyway while we where talking about it, I found some crocodile gaiters for 50 euros which is nice, they're not brown as I wanted them but whatever
i'm not trying to sound smart, i like surplus gear and so on (mostly use it for going out in the countryside with dogs or gardening tho), but what type of "camp" are you planning to set up up there?
You know there aren't trees at those heigths? Do you have a tent or at least something to make a shelter?
Also: i see you don't wanna go out with CAI, why not searching for some local "survivalist/bushcraft" group? I bet there are a few in you area
I'm actually about to go with cai in the next days, just dont want to do their multi day hikes bc they cost 200+ euros for 2 days, the day hikes are fine, yeah I'm going to look on FB groups too
are poles that important?
>are poles that important?
If you need to ask that you are not in position of doing what you're aspiring to, as if it wasn't obvious enough.
i don't know how to say it: winter hiking is very expensive, more than fair season hiking.
High altitude mountaneering/hiking is more expensive than, i don't know, staying lower (and there's plenty of places to enjoy)?
If money is your concern you should stick to more simple tasks. It's ok to not spend a lot of money, it's ok to buy used gear if you like (i do that) but just be smart.
im not being cheap, I just said that on top of the other reasons military gear also costs less, for some items I bought them new and they were expensive, but it was the right thing to do, like for the boots, I spent 340 euros iirc, but why spend 300/400 on a cool brand down jacket when a lvl7 will cost me 100 and do 90% of what the down does, plus I like it more.
anyway I copped the gaiters
100 for a lvl7? may i ask which one because i don't think that can be a real price.
you say that because you think it's too little or too much?
anyway I got 2 lvl7, once is the grey ecwcs lvl7 us army surp, jacket and pants, paid 100 for jacket and 80 for pants, the other is the more Gucci beyond clothing pcu lvl7 in coyote, paid 70 for the jacket and approx 70/80 for the pants (that was a steal), then I have a sleeveless sekri pcu lvl7 in aor2, which I bought just bc it's cool, and I paid 230 for it bc muh aor2
the BC lvl7 goes for 300 only the jacket, cut the bullshit man.
whatever dude, you can not believe it doesn't change that's how much I paid for it, I know where to look and get shit for cheap, that's what I was saying earlier
do you realize that for what you paid for said lvl7 you could have bought some proper gear? who the fricks need 2 lvl7 plus that other?
man you're bad at math
yes if I had bought only one, but I liked both and am a geargay so I bought both, and they do their job pretty well
so these are the type of crampons you suggest
This motherfricker thinks he's going alone on an alpine tour with crampon-less canadian plains surplus snowshoes, no experience, no poles, no gaiters, no mandatory safety gear, a barely planned itinerary and a twenty kilograms rucksack. Let that sink in.
>I'm about to enlist
...
This is the area OP wants to go to (Monte Adamello region). If snow conditions are like in the pic then that hike seems very reasonable and anyone suggesting this would constitute an "alpine tour" or require 12 point crampons is moronic. OP, it's your job to gather info about the state of the trails this time of the year instead of posting moronic threads. You need to keep in mind that many summer day hikes in the alps become completely inaccessible during the winter except for ski touring (crampons and gaiters wont make any difference here)
His itinerary is mostly above 2600m. You're talking out of your ass. Picrel is where he wants to go.
I've had it with this board.
My pic is from the Rifugio Serafino Gnutti, stupid moron. I don't fricking know how much snow that region's had this winter. That for OP to find out.
Refuges are closed this time of the year you moronic imbecile.
frick off pretentious homosexual
not all are closed, the other time I went it was open and I ate there
>pretentious homosexual
Lmao dude. You can't even finish a day hike in summer.
>not all are closed
okay buddy
>Lmao dude. You can't even finish a day hike in summer
that's just a lie homosexual, at least resort to something true if you want to insult me, I've even given some material to work with lol, but you have to use obviously false bullshit
You said you wanted to cross into Switzerland if I remember correctly, which you said you didn't manage to due to being in bad shape. Your words.
yes but that was a 2 day hike and it was just the last 200m to cross the ridgeline, way different from what you said, I still arrived on the top
Boy, the point is you were completely exhausted on a EE day hike, figures how you'd fare in alpine terrain. You're out of it, you have no clue, you hoard useless shit and make pipe dreams and put yourself in situation out of your abilities to justify your purchases.
You can't buy nor train a brain. You've been told several times, by several people: tone it down.
It's not even a matter of taking the piss at the funny wog out of his element anymore, you're risking it and don't understand that: people in your exact position die in that exact area. Get a grip.
I partially agree, but I'm way more fit now, and my gear isnt useless, why would it be
How would you even know what you need if you barely hiked before? I have no idea how you can be so unaware.
because I have hiked, i started 1 year ago so I'm not experienced but what you say is false
believe what you will, I know how much I paid
I remember your thread, moronic dago. You wanted to go all the way to the glacier but didn't make it. You complained about the head torches of the mountaineers that got up early.
I actually got 2 for 70 euros lol, one for 140 with the pants and 1 alone, sorry you overspent, next time ask me if you need some
i didn't overspent because i didn't buy lvl7, it's useless for me. but i know the prices and i know the bullshitters
>next time ask me if you need some
Dago, you're the one making threads asking about the most basic stuff. Do you need us to tell you how to wipe your ass, too? How about you make a thread asking about how to suck wiener because that's what you'll be doing once you enlist in the dago army.
>doesnt let me post the link, just look up "rifugio franco tonolini" on Google maps, near a town called "sonico" in the alps
What a rude clown. He doesn't wanna go to the Gnutti, can't you read? Tonolini, not Gnutti. Google them. Gnutti is 2166m, Tonolini 2467m. and in wholly different positions.
And yes, of course you know nothing of the region.
Oh yeah the meteorological conditions of the tolini hut will be VASTLY different from those of the gnutti hut which is a 1,5 hour walk away. I said it depends of the amount of snow. Nothing more, nothing less.
You outed yourself as never having been on the Alps.
You outed yourself as a moron.
Likewise.
takes one to know one, guiseppe morono
Own goal.
pot calling the kettle black, Vittorio Imbecilo
Lmao I must have made the mutt really mad when I noted it outed itself as incompetent. I'm not italian bubba. This board is like 80% children.
mamma mia i wanta a pizza
true that, I will call the refuge and ask them hows the snow conditions
do you realize crampons are for ice and there will be ice on the trail?
Also: rifugio gnutti is closed now (just check it) because most of them is closed in wintertime.
suca ricchione
here's the lvl7s you turd
and I'm the israelite of surp so yeah I paid them as I said stop seething
yes yes you paid 70 euros something that usually goes for 300-400$ plus import taxes.
but more important: you don't have a tent. you think the hut will be open, you plan to "set up camp" on the rocks.
go back to the avena
I have a bivy, which replaces the tent, and I have already used multiple times
whatever dude keep seething
not the same as failing a day hike, just stopped a bit short
SNEED
from how pissy OP is sounding i think he should just go and save this board from another terrible poster. for the past 19 almost 20 years the OP is a homosexual standard still rings true.
holy shit thats A LOT of snow im going INSAAAAAANE
Lmao how many posts do you feel you need to make? It's February, the dead of winter on the Alps. That's not the amount of snow you're going to find there, which is going to be at least half a meter deep. Stop it.
Mario save meeeee
iiiiiim dreaming of white christmas
>Dutch
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
LoOOk, BOyS, LooOOk!! No SnOW!!!!
Lmfao the morons of this website.
>europe has no old growth, no trees AND no snow
holy lel how pathetic
SNEEEEEEEED
the amount of seethe generated
And like the turd after coffee, the baiting morons are now showing up.
what about these
never tried them myself but i hear they are great. the best thing for alpine terrain are skis though, you can't beat them in the way up but most of all you can't beat them in the way down. i hear alpine touring with skis takes a lot of time and work to learn though
is op still alive?