>Stealthy fuel tanks and pods containing infrared search and track sensors will help bridge the gap between the F-22 and what’s to succeed it.
>The Raptor's new stores are set to unlock new capabilities, some of them long in the making. This includes fielding a highly capable infrared search and track (IRST) system, a feature originally planned for the F-22, but was cut due to budget concerns decades ago.
Now the F-22 can match the F-35 and J-20:
https://www.twz.com/air/f-22-spotted-with-new-stealth-wing-tanks-irst-pods
>J20
>heh its rcs is the same as a super hornet
You're thinking of the Su-57, and it doesn't have the same RCS as the Superbug but rather the same as a clean original F-18, which is a decent reduction but not a true LO aircraft.
The J-20 appears to have a higher RCS than the F-22 and F-35, but still a quite reduced RCS. The J-31/35 will almost certainly have a smaller RCS, being a smaller plane.
Think I'd still put my money on the superbug in a fight, honestly.
And yeah I don't know how good the J-20 is as a VLO but I'm inclined to believe they probably did a better job than Russia.
I mean, it entirely depends on the scenario. The J-20 is certainly not a dogfighter. However, it is much stealthier and has a significantly longer range missile, so in a many cases I would give it to the J-20 simply because it can detect first and fire a BVR first (this is of course supposing the Chinese weapons work as intended and don't have a higher rate of defects, fuel replaced with water, lol, etc.)
But in a complex environment there are a lot of things the F-18 does better.
The big risk to F-18s from China isn't their planes but rather their AD appears to be quite good and is extremely numerous. Again, if the rocket fuel hasn't been replaced with water anyhow.
I would say that in tanks, fighters, and AD China now seems significantly beyond Russia.
And even Russian AD is still a significant threat to the F-18, F-16, etc.
Oh I was meaning the superbug in comparison to the SU-57.
And oddly enough it's only after I started writing this post that I realised Top Gun Maverick has exactly that match-up. Well, against the FIFTH GENERATION FIGHTER anyway.
I mean, F-18 wins by actually existing, right? And by having pilots who have actually had a chance to fly the thing regularly.
On paper, the Su-57 should be better but I think that if it didn't have issues they would actually make them.
>I would say that in tanks, fighters, and AD China now seems significantly beyond Russia.
What would you expect when the chinks have stolen enormous amounts of IP from America? The chink torpedoes are copies of Mk 48 ffs. They even stole the blueprints for the B61 variable yield nuke.
>a clean original F-18
Original F-18 didn't have any RCS reduction at all, it was just a bog standard 4th gen like the F-16. Su-57 is supposed to have rcs comparable to the old superbug which it likely fails due to build quality while the newest Advamced Superbug/Block III that most of the fleet is currently being upgraded to has half the rcs of the old one due to additional modifications.
Older airframes getting refitted to lower RCS is really interesting, and a death-blow to the kinds of morons that like to act like stealth is an on/off switch and you need a totally VLO plane for it to be any good.
Being a smaller blip on the radar will always be better than being a bigger one, no matter how small the reduction.
F/A-18 isn't very old, it's about on par with the European 4.5th gen fighters and it's actually a significant redesign from the old Hornet, with large airframe changes, new avionics and so on. Block III superbug is an upgrade to those previous superbugs, in addition to a few new airframes Boeing made before they closed the production line a few years ago.
Yeah, I'm aware that the superbug specifically isn't that old. I'm just meaning 'older' as in, 'existing, not initially designed for' here.
J-20 already has an EOTS similar to the F-35 on top of having the largest fuel capacity amongst 5th gen due to Its size
Delete this!
Samegay
It's just arma(warrior)tard
Verly implessive.
>J-20 already has an EOTS similar to the F-35
>Because I say so
That's an IRST, chang
>J-20
>5th gen
You could call it a Super Flanker and I'd agree with that label,
But it is not a 5th gen.
I wonder if they actually want to drop those drop tanks, on account of presumably not just being expensive but made of classified materials.
Still a good capability though.
No, they aren't drop tanks. The new F/A-18 tank that it carries on its center belly includes an infrared sensor as well and the tank isn't droppable. Once attached it stays attached until the ground crew removes it.
AFAIK they're droppable under certain combat circumstances, but generally they'd stay attached.
There isn't even a provision for the wires to detach.
>dropping FLIR
I mean if you want to get absolutely fricked up sure.
I'm talking about the fuel tanks, not the IRST pods.
The IRST pod is inside the fuel tank.
Which defeats one purpose of a drop tank if it is way too expensive to ever drop.
I think "drop tank" is a bit of a misnomer - the first ones that were made of paper were designed to be dropped during the mission and often landing with them attached was avoided.
But once they became more durable and were made out of more expensive materials the ability to drop them moved from a key element to a possibility.
On the F/A-18E.
The F-22 has wing tip IRST pods AND stealth drop tanks for fuel.
Pic related, smol boi is the IRST pod, large boi is the drop tank.
Kinda like the A6M.
F-22 range: 3000 km
J20 range: 6000 km
good luck matching that with some shitty bolted-on fuel pods
Bot?
probably
theres a lot here now
Must suck to have to make compromises in your aircraft's strike capabilities in favor of range because you lack aircraft carriers.
Must suck to have to make compromises in your aircraft's sensors and range in favor for manuverability for airshows because Flankers made you jelly
>imagine believing what the chinks say
是的
Ugly ass piece of shit
Looks like a fish wearing a shirt and pants.
>non-stealth drop tanks
>the j20 now shows up on the shittiest of radar sets
>literally undermining the entire point of the aircraft in the first place
Holy frick you bugs are moronic. My expectations were low but goddamn you managed to outperform them.
>J20 range: 6000 km
Lol
Lmao
>good luck matching that with some shitty bolted-on fuel pods
Imagine if you could just use a bigger plane as some kind of mobile fuel station. You could have basically unlimited range!
MODS
tbf i believe the j-20 is primarily intended to threaten awacs and tankers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/09/16/the-us-air-forces-next-tanker-must-be-small-stealthy-and-robotic/?sh=3eaa4f98cd4e
>The Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment in a 2019 study looked at “unmanned and optionally manned designs with survivability enhancements that could allow the Air Force to conduct refueling operations in the low end of contested environments.”
>To stand a chance at dodging Chinese fighters, a four-engine KC-135 with its three crew should stay at least 800 miles away from the Chinese coast, CSBA recommended. But at that distance, the fighters the tanker is supporting could lack the endurance to linger over the combat zone.
>david axe
refueling in the air is a completely moronic makework idea
>never been used in combat once
absolute pinnacle bro
Why are chinks so insecure?
Deep down they know that they are just a slightly more technologically advanced cargo cult.
>when Americans chose 5th gen plane because they got buthurt from Su-27 airshow useless aerobatics not because of the capabilities that matter
Look homosexual how many of these gay threads are you going to do every week for years.
The YF-23 had major problems with the structural integrity of the airframe due to where the weapons bay being located creating unacceptable torsional forces during maneuvers. That's the real reason why it didn't get picked.
Afaik also because it was huge and wouldn't fit in F-15 hangars.
The YF-23 weapons bay was fricking untested shit.
Meanwhile the YF-22 had a much simpler weapons bay.
Are they replacing f22? Why? Isn't it still the best?
Because they cannibalized its production line to make the cheaper F-35 instead.
>Because they cannibalized its production line to make the cheaper F-35 instead.
Bullshit. The GWOT was expensive and the F-15C could do all the roles the F-22 did in a post-Cold War era.
The F-35 was never meant to replace the F-22.
The F22 is the best in terms of in flight performance, but the best fighter plane in terms of strategic performance is by far the F35, thanks to its user friendly controls, advanced support capabilities and staggering production numbers
What kind of bizarre cope is 'strategic performance'? That's like saying that a Ferrari is better in terms of driving performance, but the best car in terms of strategic performance is a Toyota Corolla due to its user-friendly dashboard, built-in USB ports, factory-standard fuzzy dice, and staggering production numbers.
You literally sound like you're about to say that if we call in the next 15 minutes, we can get, not one, but TWO F35s for just 3 easy payments of $49.99 million dollars.
>That's like saying that a Ferrari is better in terms of driving performance, but the best car in terms of strategic performance is a Toyota Corolla due to its user-friendly dashboard, built-in USB ports, factory-standard fuzzy dice, and staggering production numbers.
because that's exactly what I am saying
If I wanted to make one man drive fast I would buy the ferrari
If I wanted to make ten thousand men drive fast I would buy corollas
The ferrari outperforms the corolla in almost every metric on the road, but the Corollas are by far the better choice for motorising an army specifically for their user friendliness and large numbers, while not compromising on the core capabilities I need from a car
congrats you just described the difference between a dedicated asf and a multirole. Modern combat env dictates that you need a car that needs to a whole ass lot more than go faster than the other guy.
relative to the f22, f35 is a supercomputer with wings that happens to be great at killing other Jets too. The strategic advantage part comes from its ability to automatically scoop up vast amounts of data and process it in such a way that f35 pilots have demigod tier situational awareness without having to use their brain at all.
why don't motorized troops use racing carts then? Surely equipping each soldier with an ultra fast car would make them better at rapid maneuver
F-22 will be remembered like this WA-2000 is. A masterpiece of a weapon that reached the absolute pinnacle of what was possible in its time, with techniques that were tragically just about to go out of fashion once everyone wanted pic rails and free floating barrels. Yes it is still a ridiculously effective air superiority fighter, but it's really showing it's age because the F-35 has shown the potential of a systems integrated warfare approach to aircraft design. The air force would have to be moronic not to be asking "why can't we design an F-22 with F-35 electronics?"
Yeah it's honestly fascinating how the F-22 and F-35 represent wildly different visions of what a 'fifth gen' fighter should strive to be.
The F-22 is a true successor to the Eagle. It's a purebred A2A beast, wrapping the absolute limits of airframe performance in a highly effective VLO package. But that's kind of all it is. It's highly capable, but other than being VLO it's not doing anything that air superiority fighters haven't been aiming for before. It's applying new technologies (for when it was built) to old design principles.
The F-35 is no slouch as a dogfighter either but it's not in the same batshit class, because it doesn't need to be. It's a true sensor-shooter where every single friendly asset in the AO is a sensor and at any time one of them can decide to be the shooter, too. When your supercomputer with wings can have such a complete picture of the AO at all times, it can choose exactly when it wants to engage, how and what with. It's designed to always be dictating the engagement to the enemy.
And you can get that capability as a VTOL, or CATOBAR, and cheap enough that a smaller air force like the RAAF can afford a useful-sized fleet of them, and you can sell them to your allies so now all the friends backing you up can have that exact same insane capability. And it's ground-up designed to be easier to upgrade.
If the notion of an F-22 with that same sensor and networking suite doesn't at least give you a half-chub you don't belong here.
>The F-35 is no slouch as a dogfighter either
SHUT THE FRICK UP SHUT THE FRICK UP SHUT THE FRICK UP
F135 IS 125 KN DRY 191 KN WET
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FRICKING INSANE, EVEN MORESO ON A JET THAT DOESN'T GENERALLY CARRY EXTERNAL STORES
IT HAS MORE THAN DOUBLE THE THRUST OF THE MIG-29'S TWO ENGINES, DRY!!!!
Miss me with that "oh but it has to turn" bullshit btw.
Anon I agree, don't get me wrong here. 'No slouch' is a positive thing. It's not the defining feature of the jet so people don't talk about it as much but it's very capable.
Bringing dogfighting into it is moronic though. It has absolutely obscene levels of power for something its size.
I'm bringing it up because it's something the Raptor was built for, my entire point in that post is the varying design principles and concepts.
I don't think it's very likely a USAF pilot is going to get into an honest to god knife fight of any kind in either aircraft. Or any aircraft really.
>If the notion of an F-22 with that same sensor and networking suite doesn't at least give you a half-chub you don't belong here.
If only.
Not worth maintenance costs, substantial upgrade is too expensive when compared to projected costs of NGAD. Basically F-35 is more useful overall. F-15 and F-16 cheaper to keep operational and use as 2nd line missile trucks, for peace time air policing duties and bombing illiterate goat frickers in sand box if something happens in sand box.
The F-35 can act as a force multiplier for 4th gen airframes in a way the F-22 can't, too. You can run an F-35 slick and position it forwards, then network it with a package of superbugs or vipers or whathaveyou. Your F-35 is as quiet as can be without external stores, but it can functionally have the arsenal of that entire strike package a safe distance away. And it still doesn't have to be unarmed, got those internal stores in case things get hairy.
>Are they replacing f22? Why? Isn't it still the best?
F-22 is 25 years old and the aged airframes consume a lot of maintenance, leading to low ready rates and high inventory cost. That is why congress wants to replace them with F-35.
It's like having an old car. Even if you keep it in reasonable condition it's going to get to the point where the body starts rusting or random no longer in production parts start breaking and you have to decide; are you going to spend a lot of money on niche fixes, or just scrap the thing and get a new Toyota?
Sometimes you decide to spend the money (see old school MiG-21s and Spitfires still being run) but most of the time you don't and you just buy a new plane.
Planes need to be continually updated to stay "the best," and doing upgrades for a small number of planes is a high cost/benefit.
Moreover, the US' number one need for an air superiority fighter is in the Pacific but the low range of the Raptor makes it much harder to use there, e.g., the closest land bases to Taiwan are too far out.
Shout out to former SecDef Robert Gates for being a massive moron in the great effort he took to kill further production of the F-22. It was just as much of a moronic decision as when Dick Cheney as SecDef made every effort and succeeded in killing further F-14 production and modernization.
I spent a lot of time hating Congress and Cheney about the F-14 decision but you have to face facts.
Everything said about it was true. Overcomplicated, ancient design which came from a very, very premature computer systems integration capabilities. Heavy and expensive for it's intended role and mission profile, and aging out.
The 50s/60s were one of those times when a rapidly advancing new technology makes top-line units utterly obsoleted in less than a decade.
F-14 was one of those units.
Given the F-22,
It's never even been used for real combat.
They were right to cut production and focus on moving the technology along.
Now we have the world's best fighter system selling thousands to allies and an overmatch unit set to embarass the sino front coming along shortly.
the problem is the f-35's single engine and short ass range. both of which cant be solved before 2027 when china said they will be ready for invasion.
>when china said they will be ready for invasion
that was before the recent corruption purges, which are going to continue.
even if they are telling the truth and not purging non loyalists, that was rocket fuel that will be easily solvable in 3+ years. Also Xi is a dictator for life and he will make the same calculation as putin that who doesnt give a shit about his people only his historical legacy.
>that was rocket fuel that will be easily solvable in 3+ years
You have no idea what the frick you're talking about.
It also was over 100 silos with non-functioning silo doors for the missiles to actually launch. This isn't just a simple fix.
Further, you can't just remove 100's of high ranking officers and it NOT have an impact on your capability.
No fifth gen is short range.
combat range of 590 nautical miles, now pull up a map of all air bases that the f35 can operate out of and they are all within chinese ballistic missile range.
No, that's moronic and that's not how this works. No fifth gen is short range, stop using words you don't know the meaning to.
Hey did you know all of the Earth is within ICBM range?
>combat range of 590 nautical miles
That's all they will publically state: <590nmi combat radius. Though, we know thanks to Israel, that the F-35a has an A2A combat radius of 760nmi.
>They are all within chinese ballistic missile range
What missiles?
>cant upgrade with new sensors because of autistic overspecialised 90's engineering?
>just develop a stealthy exterior sensor pod instead!
I honestly should have seen that one coming, looks like the raptor is not quite as obsolete as I thought it was
They could incorporate IRST and other things into the actual aircraft if they could spend the sort of money that would require.
there's just no point when the F35 exists, cheap bolt-ons and upcycling schemes are the only upgrades the raptor will receive from now on
If the F-22 were still in production it would make complete sense to incorporate such things in improved blocks and variants. But morons made sure that didn't happen. So the best they can really justify to the bean counters is podded equipment like that.
Especially since nobody's serious about rearmament yet. If DoD could get the budget it needs, maybe the F-22 could get something more than these slapdash efforts to keep it up-to-date.
>If DoD could get the budget it needs
DoD has plenty of money. Inefficiency and Air Force goldplating is the problem.
chink insecurity thread?
I guess it jetisons the pylons aswell as the tank when its empty?
Maneuverability seems less relevant now that missiles can be fired in any direction. F-35 can do this but the F-22 has never gotten this or the relevant HUD upgrades.
Something has gone terribly wrong at multiple levels if either plane is in range where it matters to begin with when it comes to another aircraft.
Are F-22 as lewd as F-35?
Nowhere close. F-35 is as lewd as it gets
>spotted
>stealth
heh
Are these the tanks the Israelis allegedly requested be developed so they can mount them on their Lightnings for a certain hypothetical long-range strike, or are they an independent development for US use only?
It's a shame that all the Block plans in the 2010s fizzled out that was intended to give it the same EOTS of the F-35 and to fill out the nose cone with the rest of the radar sets it was meant to have.
At this point, it makes more sense to focus on NGAD.
i agree but if we take china at its word then 2027 is too soon for ngad, thus the urgent upgrades.
Of course, but the heart wants what the heart wants.
KNEEL!
I can't wait until every subhuman chink is a legitimate military target.
I hate fence sitting moderates like you