A gingery lathe might be more rigid and might have more power and ability to work with larger material, but for small items this is a decent lathe IF YOU CAN'T GET A BIGGER ONE. There are lots of videos and tutorials on how to make this toy a bit better. I suppose one nice aspect of this is you can spend a few hundred dollars and find out if you really want or need a lathe, and then sell it and get a better one.
Not mine. I lived in a manner that I would have space for machine tools and convenient ways to move them safely without a rigger.
No one needs a metal lathe until they already have a decently equipped shop that supports adding machine tool capability and benefits from that. That shop can certainly be in a trailer or go military style using shipping containers as I did with 40' High Cubes.. I should have bought a 20 standard or two when I rented but made the mistake of a shop bus which is a constraint. A box truck or trailer can also work.
Gingery lathes are fun projects for people who already have machine shops, not a good way to obtain machine tools. Over the last few centuries every practical and impractical way to obtain hobby machine tools has been exhaustively explored. Noobs should know this.
There are some levels of DIY that require planning your entire life to make practical and useful. Machining is not a poverty hobby and doing it instead of improving your economic position is bikeshedding.
notice how this board always talks about buying shit instead of actually making them?
consume consume consume
it's all you people ever do
There are complexity and precision thresholds that make a MIX of buying and making the wise choice which is why that's been standard for as long as machine tools existed. You know nothing useful about the subject so your opinion is garbage.
is cast iron more rigid than aluminium as in it doesn't flex right? steel obviously flexes so why is it used in machines
as for weight of the machine why not cast your machine pieces with provisions for placing weights in them like large stones
Instead of spoonfeeding go to the internet archive and study the history of machine tools. That's the best way to begin with the theory you must understand to be a hobby machinist.
not an option everywhere
and the ultimate goal of having these machines is to make machines so why not just start by making these machines
Because it does not work.
Why is it bothering you so much worried that your clapped out garbage collection will not sell?
All used machine tools sell easily and any worth doing can be rebuilt. My bro took a scraping course for fun then we scored a Bridgeport with a stuck gib. Few know the Forrest Addy method of removing those and fewer still want to disassemble a knee mill but it's not hard with previous mechanical experience.
He scraped the ways, replaced what needed that and now has a very nice dovetail ram mill.
either way you're not the hotshot that you think you are for doing some monkey work
You've never machined anything if you imagine that monkey work.
>already have a decently equipped shop that supports adding machine tool capability and benefits from that
I don't really disagree with anything you say, but you can drive a truck of peace through your 'decently equipped shop' statement. If you are doing metal work, I think the right time to get a lathe would be just after a drill press, and that is fairly early on.
My personal view is that people should only explore machining and machine tools after they get some experience in fabrication so cutting, welding, drilling, grinding. A mistake I made was getting obsessed with machining as a teen without having the fabrication knowledge.
>My personal view is that people should only explore machining and machine tools after they get some experience in fabrication so cutting, welding, drilling, grinding.
true, you should be using a drill press and grinder regularly before you need a lathe, not to mention being competent with all the essential hand tools
>Gingery lathes are fun projects for people who already have machine shops
that's not what he says >history of machine tools
i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools
Clickspring has a recent video where he makes a crude lathe from scratch, and winds up with impressive results, albeit on tiny pieces.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Cutting with gravers on israeliteelers style lathes does work but is mostly useless unless your goal was like his just a demonstration.
If you want to waste time on something for a few weeks then toss it aside then have at it. I use my lathe and mill to make and modify useful tools and components, not at all to have them for the sake of having them.
I could cobble together some treadle lathe easily enough but at it's best it would be feeble crippled shit compared to a proper screwcutting lathe.
4 months ago
Anonymous
i saw some zoomer type guy create a floor sized one with a welder, angle grinders and I sections
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
The chain of precursor tools and processes includes those made by casting and smithing. You're being deliberately obtuse since anyone with actual subject knowledge knows it's moronic to waste literal years trying to perform a historical reenactment IF the goal is to make parts. For example the screwcutting lathe in its most primitive form was made without modern machine tools but doing it that way is extremely idiotic in 2023.
Why are you people like this?
>Why are you people like this?
idk a mix of self dependent ethic, circumstance and pique of mechanical interest
it's not going to take years most optimal guess is that you can create the entire fleet in a year
4 months ago
Anonymous
How much machining and fab have YOU done and what kind?
>Gingery lathes
What a pain in the dick. Weeks of work to produce a shitty meme lathe when you could just get a real job and work for like 2 days to buy a superior lathe. If you're in it for the fun of it, sure. But if you want to actually make shit you are doing the equivalent of reinventing the wheel. >i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools
Yeah but back then the reward for creating a "precision" metal cylinder were much higher which justified the effort. Now they are more or less free.
4 months ago
Anonymous
more like rebuilding the wheel what even is reinventing the wheel
4 months ago
Anonymous
oh come on >",this extremely simple tool/concept can be done even better but through a much more time consuming/costly/labor intensive process
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
The chain of precursor tools and processes includes those made by casting and smithing. You're being deliberately obtuse since anyone with actual subject knowledge knows it's moronic to waste literal years trying to perform a historical reenactment IF the goal is to make parts. For example the screwcutting lathe in its most primitive form was made without modern machine tools but doing it that way is extremely idiotic in 2023.
The important question is "do you have the skills and patience to make this lathe something useful? Can the lathe be used to make the parts that make it a useful lathe?"
the entire website is filled with hostile buttholes, that makes people stop posting their creations.
like i build shit for myself and not this god forsaken place
you seriously woke up and decided PrepHole board on 4chin was the place to take your anger out. i feel sorry for your dogass, hope your disorder gets better.
Yeah, it takes tools to build things anon.
Nobody is actually fricking stupid enough to think their tools need to be handbuilt. That logic falls steeply down a slippery slope where said moron shouldn't be using a computer because he didn't hand dig up the silicon to make it from scratch.
Post pics of scratch built computer anon.
Yes, it is if you actually want to USE a metalworking lathe in a practical manner rather than make a toy you'll set aside.
>Gingery lathes are fun projects for people who already have machine shops
that's not what he says >history of machine tools
i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
>that's not what he says
That however is the real history of their use and why they are so rare in practice.
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
The precursor lathes were built by blacksmiths and foundrymen who made precursor manual machine tools as may be found in contemporary blacksmithing books. For example they would make simple non-screwcutting manual lathes quite like modern wood lathes. Some early lathes were operated by treadle. They made manual drill presses using what were basically bit braces with flat spade drill bits. They hand filed screw threads to make taps then used those to make dies, or hand filed multipiece dies. The book Practical Blacksmithing shows some precursors. Remember advanced tools were produced in workshops already advanced for the time.
Then came Harry Maudslay who had access to non-screwcutting lathes (like israeliteelers lathes using gravers to cut threads). See picrel.
so those primitive jigs is your definition of a machine shop that were used to make the first machine tools yet at the same time you're too skeptical about a diy lathe being useful?
>so those primitive jigs is your definition of a machine shop that were used to make the first machine tools yet at the same time you're too skeptical about a diy lathe being useful?
NTA but yes. That is how the first machine tools were made, but it would be impractical to do it that way now. Yes, a DIY lathe could be useful, but you're going to need access to an almost complete machine and fabrication shop in order to practically build one therefore negating even needing it in the first place. Yeah there are some work around ways of skinning the cat, but each thing you do in a crude fashion will make the finished product a bit more crude and less accurate. You will have more time, money, and effort into building it than finding and restoring an old lathe that is all there just needing some TLC. Both will be useful in the end. A factory built lathe more-so because you should have all the change gears and threading options, power feed, etc.
But hey, go ahead and build your own lathe and document it on here. We would love some good entertainment.
You're missing the context, natural for someone with no experience who still dares to have an opinion.
"Useful" in the early 1800s meant useful in an era where labor was dirt cheap making very long build times acceptable. Highly labor-intensive methods are stupid today for people who actually want to produce parts rather than go on a retro-tool building quest for arts sake or Youtube views.
You can hand file your own screw threads like blacksmiths used to after forging a chisel to cut the file teeth then forging the file then cutting the teeth then hardening the file etc but doing that is fricking stupid in 2023 from the POV of making useful (by 2023 standards AKA current reality). Most blacksmiths quit making their own files over a century ago and Nicholson etc made bank.
Labor even if free still takes time to execute. Spending years piecing together a half-arsed machine from junk is so absurd not even thirdies do it often, preferring used machine tools they patch up sufficient for their purposes.
Cast iron is more rigid than aluminum, but it's also brittle.
Steel is tougher than cast iron, which is why it's used in machinery. The same force that would flex steel could just break cast iron.
Cast iron grain structure is useful hence cast machine beds with steel lead screws, transmissions, etc
https://i.imgur.com/EzjN9Zc.jpg
>so those primitive jigs is your definition of a machine shop that were used to make the first machine tools yet at the same time you're too skeptical about a diy lathe being useful?
NTA but yes. That is how the first machine tools were made, but it would be impractical to do it that way now. Yes, a DIY lathe could be useful, but you're going to need access to an almost complete machine and fabrication shop in order to practically build one therefore negating even needing it in the first place. Yeah there are some work around ways of skinning the cat, but each thing you do in a crude fashion will make the finished product a bit more crude and less accurate. You will have more time, money, and effort into building it than finding and restoring an old lathe that is all there just needing some TLC. Both will be useful in the end. A factory built lathe more-so because you should have all the change gears and threading options, power feed, etc.
But hey, go ahead and build your own lathe and document it on here. We would love some good entertainment.
No hobbyist not already having full foundry and machine shop access is building a turret lathe like picrel either, but they're often quite reasonable used. Some modern shops buy them because they can often beat CNC cycle time and are ideal for small jobs of which one pays for the lathe. That's why I got outbid on the last one I lusted for.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yeah man and look at what you're doing with all that saved up labor time repeating yourself with same set of moronic assumptions
3 months ago
Anonymous
Post your home machine shop.
3 months ago
Anonymous
a machine shop is not a substitute for personality
Because you will waste a collosal amount of time, money, and energy trying to build your own lathe from scratch. And most people will frick it up royally and build a sloppy piece of shit with little to no precision and extremely high runout. See the countless diy lathes built on youtube. The end result is almost always a sloppy piece of shit and the creator would've been far better off just buying a taiwanese lathe and scraping it into parallelity and perpendicularity.
is cast iron more rigid than aluminium as in it doesn't flex right? steel obviously flexes so why is it used in machines
as for weight of the machine why not cast your machine pieces with provisions for placing weights in them like large stones
Everything flexes, but to different degrees But in this case the thing preventing the flex is the mass, and it's easier to manufacture this by casting first. Cast iron also is naturally dampening due to the carbon inclusions in the microstructure. But there are steel lathe beds, like the Hardinge toolroom lathes. Aluminum is not generally used because lathes and machines benefit from being heavy to reduce vibration. Aluminum is also not as wear resistant and has a greater tendency to gall.
Cast iron is more rigid than aluminum, but it's also brittle.
Steel is tougher than cast iron, which is why it's used in machinery. The same force that would flex steel could just break cast iron.
Glass is extremely rigid, yet you can't use it for machinery because its yield strength isn't all that much, despite its rigidness. That initial slope on this diagram shows how rigid a material is, so a rigid material like cast iron or glass will have a very steep line on this diagram up to their yield strength, at which point they shatter and that's the end of the line. A tough material like steel won't have as much of a steep line going up, but it has a higher yield strength, meaning under forces that would shatter cast iron, it would spring back and not deform. Exceeding the yield strength for whatever reason won't necessarily end in catastrophic failure if you're using steel, instead deforming the part up to the ultimate strength point, which is a nice property to have for machinery parts.
Hardening steel increases its rigidness while moving its yield strength further up towards the ultimate strength point. So for applications where you want something very rigid, like a drill bit, you could use cast iron, although hardened steel would be superior. But if the yield strength is exceeded, the hardened steel would shatter just like glass or cast iron would.
I dont know why anyone would build a gingery lathe when you could honestly buy a dirt cheap or be given a clapped out ww2 era lathe and be time and money ahead. They will be more accurate than any home made lathe unless you are already a machinist and know how to make precision stuff.
I have a couple old lathes i was given and a few more i bought for dirt cheap.
>the ultimate goal of having these machines is to make machines so why not just start by making these machines
People use lathes to do lots of things that aren't "making machines". And before you think about making a gingery lathe you should familiarize yourself with how much scraping, scraping, and yet more scraping is involved. That's the step where many gingery guys hit the wall.
like what making handles and stuff? lol gay
i cut my pulley wheels with a rasp anyway its not a project for now i also want to do the rest of the machines
Why is it bothering you so much worried that your clapped out garbage collection will not sell?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Why is it bothering you so much worried that your clapped out garbage collection will not sell?
I'm sure you thought
tell me you've never touched a lathe, and will never begin to make a gingery lathe, without whatever
was
I dont know why anyone would build a gingery lathe when you could honestly buy a dirt cheap or be given a clapped out ww2 era lathe and be time and money ahead. They will be more accurate than any home made lathe unless you are already a machinist and know how to make precision stuff.
I have a couple old lathes i was given and a few more i bought for dirt cheap.
But apparently there is more than one person on here who has actually done machine work in their life...
Go touch a lathe.
4 months ago
Anonymous
either way you're not the hotshot that you think you are for doing some monkey work
4 months ago
Anonymous
Never said or thought I was a hotshot. Merely stated the obvious fact that unless you are bored out of your mind and don't value your time at anything you would be money AND time ahead buying a used lathe. I am in one of the most machine tool/industry deserts in the entirety of the United States and have gotten stuff for dirt cheap or free...
As the other anon said, having a way to load and move machine tools from point a to point b and a place to store them once you get there is the biggest hurdle you have to overcome and where most people fall flat. Once that is in place the sky is the limit. Most people have no clue about machine tools and just want them gone from their property once the guy that used them passes away.
ECM is the future, some guys made an open source powersupply for it that can be rigged to a 3d printer, i reckon it wouldn't be hard to use for a lathe.
Just need a company to make the in the EU since they won't ship here.
I think I know the video/project you are thinking about. EDM is EDM, it isn't going to replace traditional chip making operations. As far as that video/demo goes I would expect electrode wear to make that thing mostly useless as a mill replacement. I would expect you would get a lot more utility putting that money towards one of the little gantry cncs.
It's the only way you'll be able to diy stuff on the cheap and in places you can't use the regular stuff. It's small amd light enough to be used in an apartment, rigidity becomes less on an issue since it isn't actually touching the metal part so it can be made out of plastic without any major issues.
I think I know the video/project you are thinking about. EDM is EDM, it isn't going to replace traditional chip making operations. As far as that video/demo goes I would expect electrode wear to make that thing mostly useless as a mill replacement. I would expect you would get a lot more utility putting that money towards one of the little gantry cncs.
I live near a bunch of industrial machine shops, and I'm told they use wire EDM whenever they can. It's slow, but it's all cnc, super precise, and the parts need minimal processing before or after. They just need their engineers to design for it. That's the part of any "it's the future!" process everyone forgets.
>the parts need minimal processing before or after
EDM affects surface structuring (white layer) which means it is is not a suitable technique for many load-bearing applications. However, the unique geometry it allows for is what makes it so powerfuL wire EDM actually has a decent material removel rate once you cut away large chunks - that is the nature of seperation processes as opposed to subtractive processes.
Take, for example, a Remington 700 receiver. You could try to mill or turn all of that out, but that wouldn't get the right geometry. You could use a shaper, but that takes ages to make all of the chips - or you could hog it out with wire EDM, and then turn and grind the critical surfaces afterwards.
Why are minilathes so expensive for what they are REEEEEEE
I just want to turn some fancy bolts and bullets and they're all like 700EUR new here and used ones aren't even that much cheaper. Want an actual decent manual lathe? Get ready to fork over anywhere from 2K (for a clapped out 380V model, of course) to 5K+... absolutely moronic. And I'd love CNC, but that rabbit hole/money drain is so deep I'm not even considering it...
Yes, even Emco Unimats are like 400+ EUR nowadays. Unimats! Those are kids toys man, not even someway proper.
I bought a Jet 9x20 for $300 if I remember correctly. And a couple craftsman/atlas lathes for around $400 a piece. One is a 10" swing and the other is a 12" They're not super heavy duty, but are a nice size for making small parts.
If you're poor then fix that first or help out at a machine shop to get shop time or take a machinist course. Access to CNC and machining a lathe means you'll still need to source the metal but if you do manage to machine a proper lathe that's a hell of a resume as a junior machinist.
Some hobbies like collecting vehicles and machining require space and money. This is always painful to learn but every enthusiast eventually grows up then the determined build shop and fit them out. If you're not utterly determined that virtue is worth acquiring.
Find something you are stone cold fricking serious about then do it. Watchmakers lathes fit apartments and can turn very high quality parts. Remember that's how instruments were built for a very long time. If you'd spend a couple grand on a gaming PC or notebook the same on a lifetime tool is reasonable.
The GameStop employees are probably getting paid the same as you. How you ended up with a sub $19 hourly wage in CALIFORNIA, one of the just expensive cost of living states, is beyond me. You need to stop being a cuck and get a new job ASAP assuming you can actually do the work competently. They are israeliteing you hard core.
Machining is absolutely dog shit in California unless you got a job for an aerospace/missile company.
I worked with a guy that left machining to dig ditches and that was 15 years ago. It's even worse now. The illegals come in and a lot of them get jobs as machinists
Yes and No. I looked into it a great deal and they have one problem.
Aluminum beds and ways. You will need to be super anal about keeping them clean so they do not wear like dogshit.
The best way to acquire industrial machine tools for home use is either getting dirty with rebuilding a not too badly worn used machine you can get reasonably priced or buying chinese built shit with external quality control.
There are importers that impose their own quality control on their imported machines and will adjust the machines in areas where they are lacking.
Kami-Maschinen in Germany is one such case.
All the old school manufacturers only build manual machines for the education market mostly now. In the modern industrial enviroment there is simply no more serious money to be made doing manual (non special) machines mostly.
someone wanted to charge me 110$ like 5 years ago to make something on a lathe. i told him he could shove it. then my hotmail got "hacked" never could get back on it again even tho I answered their stupid questions. next one I made too got "hacked". stupid prick.
its like a 5 inch wide, no taller than, and 1/2" thick geared moon thing, like 8 teeth cut out with 2 holes drilled in it.
if i could buy something to do that with for like 3x that amount id do it. espeically since these could be sold like hotcakes
What is your shops flat labor rate per hour for machining, minimum job rate, how do you price materials and how would you accurately assume such a low price to be unreasonable when a century note is low even for a very simple one-off part?
That price is not bad but being ignorant you expect individual custom pieces to be as cheap as mass-produced parts done on CNC or screw machines in volume which captures economies of scale. You are a dumbfrick of the lowest order.
$100 is a banging good price for anything custom machined what are you smoking
>$100 is a banging good price for anything custom machined what are you smoking
Shit-covered leper wieners. People who are not machinists should not have opinions on machining.
Men have our shops because as men we plan our lives appropriately. We don't make excuses, we do things. Imagine not having room to shoot rifles on your own land, have bonfires in your yard, have room to build or store whatever you want and do it cheaply, then remember those restrictions are self-inflicted.
Imagine choosing to be poor because being "you" in whatever maladapted waterfall of weakness you wallow in is more important than changing your life.
Let me guess you drive Tesla, work in an office, have horn rimmed glasses and believe trans rights are human rights?
Your butthurt feelings do not effect the actual market rate.
I would not want a part from a machinist charging me less than a plumber anyway. You're crazy
My brother tried to get some custom pulleys machined and they wanted $150 each and that was piss easy shit. And that was 20 years ago when $150 was worth something
The dudes who make $18 an hour as a "machinist" are literal monkeys pushing a green button. If he really works in a machine shop, he outed himself.
My first machinist job in a production shop (which pays far less than job shops), I was getting paid $17 an hour. That was with 0 experience learning on the job, non union, and it was over a decade ago.
3 months ago
Sieg
Sup man, I wrote most gcode by hand, but try to cheat with surfcam as much as possible since trig isn’t my strong suit. I do take a lot of short cuts to limit the trig use, like step the z height on proofing my programs to get the chafer near what the print says so I admit I’m not the best programmer but everything else is literal brain dead monkey shit like setting tools, probes edge finders, fixturing, and squaring up scrap
It’s not a difficult job but there soooo many little things you gotta memorize like depth of cut being 40% of diameter, making sure I’m climbing for best finish, memorizing the drill sizes for form or cut taps and or memorizing if that part is going to type 3 ano and oh shit what’s 5 thou more than Q or #1 drill etc
Honestly the pay isn’t worth it, it’s cool seeing some lines of code you wrote being turned into something someone uses and the guys touring the shop going this is awesome when you programmed that part and turned it out for him
But I could literally be doing anything else in life and be making drastically more money
And have less stress and not have to have this constant pressure of being perfect all the time because if I break a tap or frick a setup piece I get yelled at by the owner for wasting materials and or tool budget
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I wrote most gcode by hand
So you used conversational programming, for very basic parts?
And you "cheated" using CAM software?
Yeah, you're a monkey and yeah you worked in a shop paying $18 an hour.
kek
Those are stepping stone shops you work in for a year and a half and then dip
3 months ago
Sieg
Didn’t know 1995 haas Vf-0s had conversational programming settings built into the controller but I guess if you say so
3 months ago
Anonymous
I didnt know people unironically took jobs in shops that forbade workers from using CAM software and forced them to write Gcode by hand for old clapped out VMCs.
You are your own worst enemy for taking said job
3 months ago
Sieg Heil
I'm allowed to use cam, i just short cut the math with cam rather than sit there and figure out the depth of the shoulder of the drill i used to run a form tap into a blind hole for.
I walk over to the desk make 3 clicks click the hole and analyze the element then have the computer do the math
then just set my chamfer high on purpose and dial in the z rather than sit thee and do the math to figure out the exact height from the get go.
yeah i know i'm fricking moronic thats why im paid less than a mcdonalds worker. im really shit with trig
and i know being shit with trig means i'll never make it far in the production field, manufacturing engineer never a title i'll get because of it but idc
im not about to go back to school to get a masters in math just to work for $22 an hour at a new shop
3 months ago
Sieg Heil
**do the math to put a 60 degree 0.020" chamfer on a part with a drill mill the first time everytime**
i just b***h step it down in z while proofing my program like some community college machining student
is this better or worse than the gingery lathe
A gingery lathe might be more rigid and might have more power and ability to work with larger material, but for small items this is a decent lathe IF YOU CAN'T GET A BIGGER ONE. There are lots of videos and tutorials on how to make this toy a bit better. I suppose one nice aspect of this is you can spend a few hundred dollars and find out if you really want or need a lathe, and then sell it and get a better one.
>ability to work with larger material
it can only go 6x12" i think
can you use this or gingery lathe to make a bigger lathe
>it can only go 6x12" i think
Only? That's pretty decent, especially for steel. OP's lathe can barely do an inch diameter steel, maybe close to 3" aluminum.
>can you use this or gingery lathe to make a bigger lathe
NO
if you can build a lathe from no lathe then why can't you build a bigger lathe from small lathe
you could use the gingery lathe to build this
looks like a commie block
>interrupted cut
>headstock starts chipping
Not mine. I lived in a manner that I would have space for machine tools and convenient ways to move them safely without a rigger.
No one needs a metal lathe until they already have a decently equipped shop that supports adding machine tool capability and benefits from that. That shop can certainly be in a trailer or go military style using shipping containers as I did with 40' High Cubes.. I should have bought a 20 standard or two when I rented but made the mistake of a shop bus which is a constraint. A box truck or trailer can also work.
Gingery lathes are fun projects for people who already have machine shops, not a good way to obtain machine tools. Over the last few centuries every practical and impractical way to obtain hobby machine tools has been exhaustively explored. Noobs should know this.
There are some levels of DIY that require planning your entire life to make practical and useful. Machining is not a poverty hobby and doing it instead of improving your economic position is bikeshedding.
There are complexity and precision thresholds that make a MIX of buying and making the wise choice which is why that's been standard for as long as machine tools existed. You know nothing useful about the subject so your opinion is garbage.
Instead of spoonfeeding go to the internet archive and study the history of machine tools. That's the best way to begin with the theory you must understand to be a hobby machinist.
Because it does not work.
All used machine tools sell easily and any worth doing can be rebuilt. My bro took a scraping course for fun then we scored a Bridgeport with a stuck gib. Few know the Forrest Addy method of removing those and fewer still want to disassemble a knee mill but it's not hard with previous mechanical experience.
He scraped the ways, replaced what needed that and now has a very nice dovetail ram mill.
You've never machined anything if you imagine that monkey work.
>already have a decently equipped shop that supports adding machine tool capability and benefits from that
I don't really disagree with anything you say, but you can drive a truck of peace through your 'decently equipped shop' statement. If you are doing metal work, I think the right time to get a lathe would be just after a drill press, and that is fairly early on.
My personal view is that people should only explore machining and machine tools after they get some experience in fabrication so cutting, welding, drilling, grinding. A mistake I made was getting obsessed with machining as a teen without having the fabrication knowledge.
>My personal view is that people should only explore machining and machine tools after they get some experience in fabrication so cutting, welding, drilling, grinding.
true, you should be using a drill press and grinder regularly before you need a lathe, not to mention being competent with all the essential hand tools
>Gingery lathes are fun projects for people who already have machine shops
that's not what he says
>history of machine tools
i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools
Clickspring has a recent video where he makes a crude lathe from scratch, and winds up with impressive results, albeit on tiny pieces.
Cutting with gravers on israeliteelers style lathes does work but is mostly useless unless your goal was like his just a demonstration.
If you want to waste time on something for a few weeks then toss it aside then have at it. I use my lathe and mill to make and modify useful tools and components, not at all to have them for the sake of having them.
I could cobble together some treadle lathe easily enough but at it's best it would be feeble crippled shit compared to a proper screwcutting lathe.
i saw some zoomer type guy create a floor sized one with a welder, angle grinders and I sections
>Why are you people like this?
idk a mix of self dependent ethic, circumstance and pique of mechanical interest
it's not going to take years most optimal guess is that you can create the entire fleet in a year
How much machining and fab have YOU done and what kind?
>Gingery lathes
What a pain in the dick. Weeks of work to produce a shitty meme lathe when you could just get a real job and work for like 2 days to buy a superior lathe. If you're in it for the fun of it, sure. But if you want to actually make shit you are doing the equivalent of reinventing the wheel.
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools
Yeah but back then the reward for creating a "precision" metal cylinder were much higher which justified the effort. Now they are more or less free.
more like rebuilding the wheel what even is reinventing the wheel
oh come on
>",this extremely simple tool/concept can be done even better but through a much more time consuming/costly/labor intensive process
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
The chain of precursor tools and processes includes those made by casting and smithing. You're being deliberately obtuse since anyone with actual subject knowledge knows it's moronic to waste literal years trying to perform a historical reenactment IF the goal is to make parts. For example the screwcutting lathe in its most primitive form was made without modern machine tools but doing it that way is extremely idiotic in 2023.
Why are you people like this?
The important question is "do you have the skills and patience to make this lathe something useful? Can the lathe be used to make the parts that make it a useful lathe?"
Gingery lathe is substantially worse
Is Adventures with a very small lathe still putting out vids?
notice how this board always talks about buying shit instead of actually making them?
consume consume consume
it's all you people ever do
the entire website is filled with hostile buttholes, that makes people stop posting their creations.
like i build shit for myself and not this god forsaken place
>the entire website is filled with hostile buttholes, that makes people stop posting their creations.
Shutup dumbass and go back to redit. Nobody is hostile here, just painfully honest.
>Nobody is hostile here, just painfully honest
The irony is lost on you, I'm sure
How about you lose your irony on deez nutz b***h
you seriously woke up and decided PrepHole board on 4chin was the place to take your anger out. i feel sorry for your dogass, hope your disorder gets better.
Yeah, it takes tools to build things anon.
Nobody is actually fricking stupid enough to think their tools need to be handbuilt. That logic falls steeply down a slippery slope where said moron shouldn't be using a computer because he didn't hand dig up the silicon to make it from scratch.
Post pics of scratch built computer anon.
that's not even the logic at play here and nice analogy that doesn't even compare
Yes, it is if you actually want to USE a metalworking lathe in a practical manner rather than make a toy you'll set aside.
>that's not what he says
That however is the real history of their use and why they are so rare in practice.
>i'd imagine the first ones were built without machine tools unless there is some magical alien intervention
The precursor lathes were built by blacksmiths and foundrymen who made precursor manual machine tools as may be found in contemporary blacksmithing books. For example they would make simple non-screwcutting manual lathes quite like modern wood lathes. Some early lathes were operated by treadle. They made manual drill presses using what were basically bit braces with flat spade drill bits. They hand filed screw threads to make taps then used those to make dies, or hand filed multipiece dies. The book Practical Blacksmithing shows some precursors. Remember advanced tools were produced in workshops already advanced for the time.
Then came Harry Maudslay who had access to non-screwcutting lathes (like israeliteelers lathes using gravers to cut threads). See picrel.
so those primitive jigs is your definition of a machine shop that were used to make the first machine tools yet at the same time you're too skeptical about a diy lathe being useful?
>so those primitive jigs is your definition of a machine shop that were used to make the first machine tools yet at the same time you're too skeptical about a diy lathe being useful?
NTA but yes. That is how the first machine tools were made, but it would be impractical to do it that way now. Yes, a DIY lathe could be useful, but you're going to need access to an almost complete machine and fabrication shop in order to practically build one therefore negating even needing it in the first place. Yeah there are some work around ways of skinning the cat, but each thing you do in a crude fashion will make the finished product a bit more crude and less accurate. You will have more time, money, and effort into building it than finding and restoring an old lathe that is all there just needing some TLC. Both will be useful in the end. A factory built lathe more-so because you should have all the change gears and threading options, power feed, etc.
But hey, go ahead and build your own lathe and document it on here. We would love some good entertainment.
You're missing the context, natural for someone with no experience who still dares to have an opinion.
"Useful" in the early 1800s meant useful in an era where labor was dirt cheap making very long build times acceptable. Highly labor-intensive methods are stupid today for people who actually want to produce parts rather than go on a retro-tool building quest for arts sake or Youtube views.
You can hand file your own screw threads like blacksmiths used to after forging a chisel to cut the file teeth then forging the file then cutting the teeth then hardening the file etc but doing that is fricking stupid in 2023 from the POV of making useful (by 2023 standards AKA current reality). Most blacksmiths quit making their own files over a century ago and Nicholson etc made bank.
Labor even if free still takes time to execute. Spending years piecing together a half-arsed machine from junk is so absurd not even thirdies do it often, preferring used machine tools they patch up sufficient for their purposes.
Cast iron grain structure is useful hence cast machine beds with steel lead screws, transmissions, etc
No hobbyist not already having full foundry and machine shop access is building a turret lathe like picrel either, but they're often quite reasonable used. Some modern shops buy them because they can often beat CNC cycle time and are ideal for small jobs of which one pays for the lathe. That's why I got outbid on the last one I lusted for.
yeah man and look at what you're doing with all that saved up labor time repeating yourself with same set of moronic assumptions
Post your home machine shop.
a machine shop is not a substitute for personality
that what this thread is all about moron simple being able to turn shit for bearing to fit up your tool game.
Because you will waste a collosal amount of time, money, and energy trying to build your own lathe from scratch. And most people will frick it up royally and build a sloppy piece of shit with little to no precision and extremely high runout. See the countless diy lathes built on youtube. The end result is almost always a sloppy piece of shit and the creator would've been far better off just buying a taiwanese lathe and scraping it into parallelity and perpendicularity.
>just make ur own lathe bro
Honestly Reddit is better for this type of stuff.
why are you using english?
all you do is reuse words that you don't really know the meaning
make your own language bro
is cast iron more rigid than aluminium as in it doesn't flex right? steel obviously flexes so why is it used in machines
as for weight of the machine why not cast your machine pieces with provisions for placing weights in them like large stones
Everything flexes, but to different degrees But in this case the thing preventing the flex is the mass, and it's easier to manufacture this by casting first. Cast iron also is naturally dampening due to the carbon inclusions in the microstructure. But there are steel lathe beds, like the Hardinge toolroom lathes. Aluminum is not generally used because lathes and machines benefit from being heavy to reduce vibration. Aluminum is also not as wear resistant and has a greater tendency to gall.
Cast iron is more rigid than aluminum, but it's also brittle.
Steel is tougher than cast iron, which is why it's used in machinery. The same force that would flex steel could just break cast iron.
Glass is extremely rigid, yet you can't use it for machinery because its yield strength isn't all that much, despite its rigidness. That initial slope on this diagram shows how rigid a material is, so a rigid material like cast iron or glass will have a very steep line on this diagram up to their yield strength, at which point they shatter and that's the end of the line. A tough material like steel won't have as much of a steep line going up, but it has a higher yield strength, meaning under forces that would shatter cast iron, it would spring back and not deform. Exceeding the yield strength for whatever reason won't necessarily end in catastrophic failure if you're using steel, instead deforming the part up to the ultimate strength point, which is a nice property to have for machinery parts.
Hardening steel increases its rigidness while moving its yield strength further up towards the ultimate strength point. So for applications where you want something very rigid, like a drill bit, you could use cast iron, although hardened steel would be superior. But if the yield strength is exceeded, the hardened steel would shatter just like glass or cast iron would.
Glass I used on machinery
whats with the creepy selfie shots where he looks like bill gates the more he ages
I dont know why anyone would build a gingery lathe when you could honestly buy a dirt cheap or be given a clapped out ww2 era lathe and be time and money ahead. They will be more accurate than any home made lathe unless you are already a machinist and know how to make precision stuff.
I have a couple old lathes i was given and a few more i bought for dirt cheap.
not an option everywhere
and the ultimate goal of having these machines is to make machines so why not just start by making these machines
>the ultimate goal of having these machines is to make machines so why not just start by making these machines
People use lathes to do lots of things that aren't "making machines". And before you think about making a gingery lathe you should familiarize yourself with how much scraping, scraping, and yet more scraping is involved. That's the step where many gingery guys hit the wall.
like what making handles and stuff? lol gay
i cut my pulley wheels with a rasp anyway its not a project for now i also want to do the rest of the machines
tell me you've never touched a lathe, and will never begin to make a gingery lathe, without whatever
Why is it bothering you so much worried that your clapped out garbage collection will not sell?
>Why is it bothering you so much worried that your clapped out garbage collection will not sell?
I'm sure you thought
was
But apparently there is more than one person on here who has actually done machine work in their life...
Go touch a lathe.
either way you're not the hotshot that you think you are for doing some monkey work
Never said or thought I was a hotshot. Merely stated the obvious fact that unless you are bored out of your mind and don't value your time at anything you would be money AND time ahead buying a used lathe. I am in one of the most machine tool/industry deserts in the entirety of the United States and have gotten stuff for dirt cheap or free...
As the other anon said, having a way to load and move machine tools from point a to point b and a place to store them once you get there is the biggest hurdle you have to overcome and where most people fall flat. Once that is in place the sky is the limit. Most people have no clue about machine tools and just want them gone from their property once the guy that used them passes away.
they don't actually need a lathe so they build one instead of buying one and not knowing what to make with it. it's also instant bragging rights
>VAR I ABLESPEED
Great kerning
ECM is the future, some guys made an open source powersupply for it that can be rigged to a 3d printer, i reckon it wouldn't be hard to use for a lathe.
Just need a company to make the in the EU since they won't ship here.
My bad, EDM
>EDM
"Yeah I need to make a hole 2" deep in this piece of material. Should be done by Tuesday."
I can’t stop dun dun dun derrrrr derrr burrrr
>I don’t think those guys know what the frick they’re doing
It's the only way you'll be able to diy stuff on the cheap and in places you can't use the regular stuff. It's small amd light enough to be used in an apartment, rigidity becomes less on an issue since it isn't actually touching the metal part so it can be made out of plastic without any major issues.
I think I know the video/project you are thinking about. EDM is EDM, it isn't going to replace traditional chip making operations. As far as that video/demo goes I would expect electrode wear to make that thing mostly useless as a mill replacement. I would expect you would get a lot more utility putting that money towards one of the little gantry cncs.
I live near a bunch of industrial machine shops, and I'm told they use wire EDM whenever they can. It's slow, but it's all cnc, super precise, and the parts need minimal processing before or after. They just need their engineers to design for it. That's the part of any "it's the future!" process everyone forgets.
>the parts need minimal processing before or after
EDM affects surface structuring (white layer) which means it is is not a suitable technique for many load-bearing applications. However, the unique geometry it allows for is what makes it so powerfuL wire EDM actually has a decent material removel rate once you cut away large chunks - that is the nature of seperation processes as opposed to subtractive processes.
Take, for example, a Remington 700 receiver. You could try to mill or turn all of that out, but that wouldn't get the right geometry. You could use a shaper, but that takes ages to make all of the chips - or you could hog it out with wire EDM, and then turn and grind the critical surfaces afterwards.
i have tough something similar often, edm is slow yes, but is not volumetric, which has its big advantages
Why are minilathes so expensive for what they are REEEEEEE
I just want to turn some fancy bolts and bullets and they're all like 700EUR new here and used ones aren't even that much cheaper. Want an actual decent manual lathe? Get ready to fork over anywhere from 2K (for a clapped out 380V model, of course) to 5K+... absolutely moronic. And I'd love CNC, but that rabbit hole/money drain is so deep I'm not even considering it...
Yes, even Emco Unimats are like 400+ EUR nowadays. Unimats! Those are kids toys man, not even someway proper.
I bought a Jet 9x20 for $300 if I remember correctly. And a couple craftsman/atlas lathes for around $400 a piece. One is a 10" swing and the other is a 12" They're not super heavy duty, but are a nice size for making small parts.
>$
There's the thing, apparently they're overpriced here in Yurop.
If you're poor then fix that first or help out at a machine shop to get shop time or take a machinist course. Access to CNC and machining a lathe means you'll still need to source the metal but if you do manage to machine a proper lathe that's a hell of a resume as a junior machinist.
Some hobbies like collecting vehicles and machining require space and money. This is always painful to learn but every enthusiast eventually grows up then the determined build shop and fit them out. If you're not utterly determined that virtue is worth acquiring.
Find something you are stone cold fricking serious about then do it. Watchmakers lathes fit apartments and can turn very high quality parts. Remember that's how instruments were built for a very long time. If you'd spend a couple grand on a gaming PC or notebook the same on a lifetime tool is reasonable.
>Watchmakers lathes fit apartments and can turn very high quality parts
those are very overpriced where i live
youre doing it wrong...you're supposed to buy a 5 axis wit patreon money and just make griddles over and over again
I have a suspicion that this tripgay
is actually AVE. Low quality bait, low quality shitposting, and low quality machining all rolled into one low quality tripgay person.
You work at GameStop what do you know about machining other than whatever titans of cnc posted and you half -understandingly repeat
Not even remotely close. Try harder at everything you do.
The GameStop employees are probably getting paid the same as you. How you ended up with a sub $19 hourly wage in CALIFORNIA, one of the just expensive cost of living states, is beyond me. You need to stop being a cuck and get a new job ASAP assuming you can actually do the work competently. They are israeliteing you hard core.
Machining is absolutely dog shit in California unless you got a job for an aerospace/missile company.
I worked with a guy that left machining to dig ditches and that was 15 years ago. It's even worse now. The illegals come in and a lot of them get jobs as machinists
It’s min wage and I buy all the high end tools the shop use’s nobody legit cares
It’s not a job shop it’s a production shop in house products from metal to ano
Jobs are few and far between I made my own lock picks and socket trays before here
Pretty sure Ave posts anonymously. I don't think he's been around for 4 years really
Delusional
It's sieg, no one likes him over on k so it's no surprise that people feel the same here. Iirc he is mexican.
are proxxon minilathes any good?
Yes and No. I looked into it a great deal and they have one problem.
Aluminum beds and ways. You will need to be super anal about keeping them clean so they do not wear like dogshit.
The best way to acquire industrial machine tools for home use is either getting dirty with rebuilding a not too badly worn used machine you can get reasonably priced or buying chinese built shit with external quality control.
There are importers that impose their own quality control on their imported machines and will adjust the machines in areas where they are lacking.
Kami-Maschinen in Germany is one such case.
All the old school manufacturers only build manual machines for the education market mostly now. In the modern industrial enviroment there is simply no more serious money to be made doing manual (non special) machines mostly.
Everyone with even a passing interest should, as an introduction to the technology, read the gingery books.
And then buy a machine tool, unless they really just want to get into metal casting and everything else is just a bonus.
jesus that casting looks horrific even in this marketing photo
When you strip the paint there is filler too
someone wanted to charge me 110$ like 5 years ago to make something on a lathe. i told him he could shove it. then my hotmail got "hacked" never could get back on it again even tho I answered their stupid questions. next one I made too got "hacked". stupid prick.
its like a 5 inch wide, no taller than, and 1/2" thick geared moon thing, like 8 teeth cut out with 2 holes drilled in it.
if i could buy something to do that with for like 3x that amount id do it. espeically since these could be sold like hotcakes
what sort of drugs are you on
just b***hing about this 100$ lathe in this thread and how some guy wanted for a 5"x5" x 1/2" wide piece of crap 100$
$100 is a banging good price for anything custom machined what are you smoking
Let me guess you drive Tesla, work in an office, have horn rimmed glasses and believe trans rights are human rights?
That was butthurt not a rebuttal.
What is your shops flat labor rate per hour for machining, minimum job rate, how do you price materials and how would you accurately assume such a low price to be unreasonable when a century note is low even for a very simple one-off part?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/17sjwcc/shop_rates_and_industries/
>1/2" thick geared moon thing,
That price is not bad but being ignorant you expect individual custom pieces to be as cheap as mass-produced parts done on CNC or screw machines in volume which captures economies of scale. You are a dumbfrick of the lowest order.
>$100 is a banging good price for anything custom machined what are you smoking
Shit-covered leper wieners. People who are not machinists should not have opinions on machining.
Men have our shops because as men we plan our lives appropriately. We don't make excuses, we do things. Imagine not having room to shoot rifles on your own land, have bonfires in your yard, have room to build or store whatever you want and do it cheaply, then remember those restrictions are self-inflicted.
Imagine choosing to be poor because being "you" in whatever maladapted waterfall of weakness you wallow in is more important than changing your life.
Your butthurt feelings do not effect the actual market rate.
I would not want a part from a machinist charging me less than a plumber anyway. You're crazy
My brother tried to get some custom pulleys machined and they wanted $150 each and that was piss easy shit. And that was 20 years ago when $150 was worth something
$450/hr shop rate and materials is just cost x2.
They pay me $18/hr
Guess who does the work on your $150 part start to finish…
Someone a lot smarter than you? Start your own husiness if you're such hot shit. You could btfo of chink machinists for that rate
The dudes who make $18 an hour as a "machinist" are literal monkeys pushing a green button. If he really works in a machine shop, he outed himself.
My first machinist job in a production shop (which pays far less than job shops), I was getting paid $17 an hour. That was with 0 experience learning on the job, non union, and it was over a decade ago.
Sup man, I wrote most gcode by hand, but try to cheat with surfcam as much as possible since trig isn’t my strong suit. I do take a lot of short cuts to limit the trig use, like step the z height on proofing my programs to get the chafer near what the print says so I admit I’m not the best programmer but everything else is literal brain dead monkey shit like setting tools, probes edge finders, fixturing, and squaring up scrap
It’s not a difficult job but there soooo many little things you gotta memorize like depth of cut being 40% of diameter, making sure I’m climbing for best finish, memorizing the drill sizes for form or cut taps and or memorizing if that part is going to type 3 ano and oh shit what’s 5 thou more than Q or #1 drill etc
Honestly the pay isn’t worth it, it’s cool seeing some lines of code you wrote being turned into something someone uses and the guys touring the shop going this is awesome when you programmed that part and turned it out for him
But I could literally be doing anything else in life and be making drastically more money
And have less stress and not have to have this constant pressure of being perfect all the time because if I break a tap or frick a setup piece I get yelled at by the owner for wasting materials and or tool budget
>I wrote most gcode by hand
So you used conversational programming, for very basic parts?
And you "cheated" using CAM software?
Yeah, you're a monkey and yeah you worked in a shop paying $18 an hour.
kek
Those are stepping stone shops you work in for a year and a half and then dip
Didn’t know 1995 haas Vf-0s had conversational programming settings built into the controller but I guess if you say so
I didnt know people unironically took jobs in shops that forbade workers from using CAM software and forced them to write Gcode by hand for old clapped out VMCs.
You are your own worst enemy for taking said job
I'm allowed to use cam, i just short cut the math with cam rather than sit there and figure out the depth of the shoulder of the drill i used to run a form tap into a blind hole for.
I walk over to the desk make 3 clicks click the hole and analyze the element then have the computer do the math
then just set my chamfer high on purpose and dial in the z rather than sit thee and do the math to figure out the exact height from the get go.
yeah i know i'm fricking moronic thats why im paid less than a mcdonalds worker. im really shit with trig
and i know being shit with trig means i'll never make it far in the production field, manufacturing engineer never a title i'll get because of it but idc
im not about to go back to school to get a masters in math just to work for $22 an hour at a new shop
**do the math to put a 60 degree 0.020" chamfer on a part with a drill mill the first time everytime**
i just b***h step it down in z while proofing my program like some community college machining student