Electrician friends I need your help.
I have a bit of electrical experience, I wired in a few breakers etc. but other than that I am clueless.
There is an electrical pole in my backyard which has triplex service connected to my house which goes into a 200amp meter socket and then from there into my 100amp panel.
I'm splitting the property into 3 units(main floor, basement and detached garage in the back) which all need their own meter sockets and utility bills etc.
I think I need 100 amps in each unit.
What is the best way of doing this?
If I could somehow get 3 100amp meter sockets that go into 3 100amp panels that would be ideal. Is this possible?
Would they have to upgrade the transformers on the pole or something or am I okay? I would like to avoid this if possible because it looks like it could take months.
I can't do subpanels because each unit needs their own bill.
scumbag landlord, hope you burn your place down
let me guess, caligay?
There's no need to cry, envious moron.
I know you people hate the poor and the concept of building more housing but I think you should close the tab and go back to /leftypol/
yeah, I mean-- you're basically doing this as an act of charity in order to take in poor homeless people out of the goodness fo your heart, right? It's fine to be a landlord/slumlord but don't break your arm jerking yourself off.
>Do they typically need to upgrade transformers if someone wants to upgrade from 200amp to 300-400?
Possibly. The transformers have a rating, and if it's not enough then they will swap it out for a bigger unit. It depends on the particulars of your situation though, as sometimes several houses share a single larger capacity transformer which isn't normally swapped out when one of the houses upgrades. Also apparently some utilities use a largish transformer as their standard unit and it may not need to be swapped.
>If it's not enough don't they charge me for upgrading it?
That depends on the particulars of your situation. FWIW my local power company doesn't charge for transformer upgrades/swaps but they DO charge for the initial transformer install. You need to call your power company and get guidance on this. The fact that you're adding new services/meters may cause you to incur fees whereas you may not have if you were simply upgrading your current service.
>How am I going to split this service into 3 100amp meter sockets?
The easiest way to do it would be to use a 3-gang meter socket. With these, you have a single drop coming in from the weatherhead and it is wired to a bus connection inside the meter pack which connects all the meters in parallel. Basically you just swap it out for your current single gang meter socket. Again, your local utility company is going to tell you what type of unit they want to see. When I did this, they gave me a pdf with a list of approved sockets and told me to contact the site engineer and ask if I wanted to use a different model that wasn't already on their list.
>yeah, I mean-- you're basically doing this as an act of charity in order to take in poor homeless people out of the goodness fo your heart, right? It's fine to be a landlord/slumlord but don't break your arm jerking yourself off.
I only say these things to leftists or natsoc crybabies when they give me shit about it due to them being confused economic illiterates.
Obviously I'm doing this for my own benefit, in the same way a restaurant owner acts in his own benefit. Society still benefits even if people in the market act in their own self interest.
>The transformers have a rating, and if it's not enough then they will swap it out for a bigger unit. It depends on the particulars of your situation though, as sometimes several houses share a single larger capacity transformer which isn't normally swapped out when one of the houses upgrades
When they initially install the transformers do they account for houses upgrading their service in the future by installing a larger transformer(or more of them)?
How common is it that the power company would need to install a new transformer if a house wanted to upgrade their service?
I wonder if they would need to upgrade the wires coming from the pole to my house too. It's only around 20 feet span.
>The easiest way to do it would be to use a 3-gang meter socket. With these, you have a single drop coming in from the weatherhead and it is wired to a bus connection inside the meter pack which connects all the meters in parallel. Basically you just swap it out for your current single gang meter socket.
Okay. Is it really this simple?
Also, I only need 100amp for each unit, is 300amp service a common thing(I heard it's uncommon and they don't usually do it). Could I just do what you're saying but with 300amp service from the electrical pole?
Also what should the meter sockets be rated for? 100amps each?
Can you give me a link to an example of this 3 gang meter socket with bus connection?
Thanks.
Pic related is a wiring diagram from the above linked meter main. It's pretty simple.
Here's another link with a few more things to know about the process (it is coming from the POV of installing a brand new service, but it doesn't matter--- the principles are the same)
https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/Publications-and-media/Blogs-Landing-Page/NFPA-Today/Blog-Posts/2022/01/06/Considerations-for-Single-Family-Residential-Electrical-Services-Based-on-the-2020-NEC
>Also, I only need 100amp for each unit, is 300amp service a common thing(I heard it's uncommon and they don't usually do it). Could I just do what you're saying but with 300amp service from the electrical pole?
most residential doesnt need more than 200 amp service thats why its uncommon. if you going to have 3 separate units they all need their own drops from the pole/transformer. they will have their own service. you dont divide one 300 amp service into 3 100 amp services. the power from the transformer can handle multiple services. each one will be dedicated for what you need. 100 amp or 200 amp. you need an appropriate meter base for each service. the power company should supply the meter base. you have to install the base, and the conduit and weatherhead and have it wired to the meter base. the power company will then come and connect the main to the drop and install the meter after your install is inspected and approved. if its not the power company will not hookup power to your meter.
What are you talking about? You absolutely do 3 meters from a single drop.
So in a 100 unit apartment building, do you think the power company runs 100 drops to each unit?
moronic argument, israelite
Socialist manchildren(national socialist losers) aren't welcome on PrepHole. If we had it your way, people wouldn't be allowed to do anything themselves.
OP is turning a likely normal, family house into 3 pods, and trying to do it as quickly and cheaply as possible.
>1 bedroom apartments should not exist
>if you want to live anywhere you must buy or rent an entire massive single family home, NO EXCEPTIONS!
You NIMBYs are autists and you have caused the housing crisis.
How
Restrictive zoning laws and regulations restrict the supply of new units and jack up prices.
It's basic supply and demand.
Look at San Francisco's housing market if you want to see the damage NIMBYs have done.
Wrong.
Illegal immigrants that think living 4+ adults in a house are what caused it.
Nothing else could drive up rents like this. There is no way for 1 or 2 adults to support a household because all the landlords are looking for 4 or 6 or 8 adults in a house and they don't care that's its 4k/month because that's easily affordable.
>Illegal immigrants that think living 4+ adults in a house are what caused it.
How does that make any sense at all?
Poor immigrants have always shared homes like this to save money. Throughout all american history this is how immigrants got started. Why didn't we see massive housing bubbles when the immigration rate was much higher in the late 1800s?
>Nothing else could drive up rents like this.
What about massive money printing and government restrictions on supply? That seems like the most likely cause.
>There is no way for 1 or 2 adults to support a household because all the landlords are looking for 4 or 6 or 8 adults in a house
Landlords do this because there is a market demand for it. If there wasn't a market demand for it, landlords wouldn't split units like this.
Why do you want to force people to pay more money for housing they don't even need. Does a single guy need a 3 bedroom house?
>splitting up a house
Hahaha
Lol
You don't even know because you are the rich fricker. A whole family shares a bedroom, another family shares the other, and the other, and the living room. There's like 15 or 18 people in a house designed for a 3 bedroom house.
The market pays what demand is there for the supply.
Rhe biggest things stopping housing in this area is fricking water, and we have to dump all our water into the ocean to save the river smelt.
YOUR supply bullshit is dumb. Who cpupd possibly have foreseen letting a million illegals in a year would effect housing costs?!
>We must blame every problem on the victims, regardless of reason, logic or fact.
>victims
>coming here voluntarily. Living like this because they're used to it and don't mind. Breaking the law by being here. Breaking the law by not paying income tax. Sending their kids to public school and getting free lunch and Healthcare. Sending half their money to their family back home.
>victims
Fricking rub your brain cells together. The entire reason illegal immigration is not stopped is because they are the only thing holding up the property values the boomers based their retirement off of.
>You don't even know because you are the rich fricker
I'm not even rich, I'm not even a landlord lmao
>A whole family shares a bedroom, another family shares the other, and the other, and the living room. There's like 15 or 18 people in a house designed for a 3 bedroom house.
First off that number is extremely exaugurated and second, you're too stupid to understand that this is typically a temporary situation with people, they aren't going to live like this forever.
Thirdly, if this is their only option, who are you to say it's wrong?
It's better than having nothing or being forced to pay 90% of your income to rent a massive mansion.
>The market pays what demand is there for the supply.
lmao producers don't just produce things and force others to buy them
If there was a demand for larger units, they would be more profitable and built more.
People want cheap housing you absolute moron.
Why won't you answer the elephant in the room?
Why didn't we have a massive unsustainable housing bubble back when we had a higher immigration rate?
Why didn't all of those irish and italian immigrants create a crazy housing bubble?
Clearly immigration is not the cause of the housing bubble.
They're illegal and poorly tracked. There's 10-40 million more than official num ers suggest because they don't want you to freak out.
It is not an exaggeration I've worked in these homes. There's two sleeping bags in the living room, 4 in the bedroom. 4 in the other bedroom, and that was literally in a shotgun shack.
And there was a huge outcry about immigration on the 1900s. Don't you remember how everyone used to hate Irish people?
>And there was a huge outcry about immigration on the 1900s.
yeah but not about them raising housing prices though, which was the main point
> Why didn't we have a massive unsustainable housing bubble back when we had a higher immigration rate?
nta but the raw numbers compared to proportion in the image you posted tell the story that there’s way more people and by extension way less available land. Not disagreeing with your stance on zoning laws and regulations. I think they’re both contributing factors as well. But to say endless open immigration isn’t a ticking bomb (in more ways than one) is a great way to end up in a third world shithole without ever leaving your beautiful little hometown.
it's his property why don't you go cry about it pussy
Based, total landlord death
go back to readit, sweaty
to be quite honest though, OP's unwillingness to just call the power company and his questions about how likely it is that the current transformer and service drop can sustain 3 meters lead me to believe that he is trying to figure out how to do this himself without getting any permits or calling anyone.
Rent's due, bootlicker.
rentlet spotted
>I can't do subpanels because each unit needs their own bill.
You aren't going to be able to do this yourself. The utility has to get involved for the new meters.
>The utility has to get involved for the new meters.
Yeah obviously, but I think I can install the meter sockets if I know which ones to use. As far as I know, they just come later to inspect it and put the actual meters on the meter sockets.
I plan to call the utility company but I want to get more information first and determine what the ideal course of action is.
Generally you put in a weatherhead and conduit down to your meter then the power company plates the drop and terminates to their side of the meter and put a meter in either that day or the next.
Just have to talk to them. Tall to whoever is subdividing your lot. If you try to get it before the subdivision they might charge you extra for the installs.
You don't need to worry about the transformer. It's either enough or it's not, it's their problem.
>weatherhead and conduit down
yeah I already have one on my house.
The wire goes from the pole in the back to the weatherhead, through the conduit into my meter socket.
> plates the drop and terminates to their side of the meter and put a meter in either that day or the next.
Okay you lost me. Explain these things.
How am I going to split this service into 3 100amp meter sockets?
>Just have to talk to them.
Yeah okay.
>Tall to whoever is subdividing your lot.
That's not what is happening. I live in an existing area and I want to split the electrical into 3 services on my own property.
>It's either enough or it's not, it's their problem.
If it's not enough don't they charge me for upgrading it?
I briefly looked on their website and it said it could take months to upgrade it.
Do they typically need to upgrade transformers if someone wants to upgrade from 200amp to 300-400?
You’re overthinking all of this. Your responsibility will vary based on the rules for your specific area. The transformer is their problem like the other poster said, you’re responsible for everything back to the meters. Sounds like you want to save money on hiring an electrician but have no idea what you’re doing, you should at least pay one for a consult so you have clear instructions for what to do
>I have a bit of electrical experience, I wired in a few breakers etc
Tell us more about "etc." Because wiring in "a few breakers" isn't what I'd call "experience."
Electrician and electrical engineer here. Do not do this yourself OP. If you were doing works on your own private residence that's one thing, you are actively endangering future tenants and you /will/ face jail time if someone gets hurt. I have seen it happen first hand. It's not a situation of DIY here, don't play with other people's lives to cut corners. This is a major rework and beyond your capabilities, I'd even go as far as saying beyond the scope of many qualified electricians.Do you want to be responsible for the death of a child trying to use a kitchen tap?
Any electrician bringing out his electrical engineer stamp is lying about both.
All you have to do is do it by the book.
The first time I installed a power pole with meter enclosure and main disconnect panel, the inspector laughed at me for having used a sawzall to cut the 2/0 wires (I didn't have a nice cutting tool), but he approved my install.
>How common is it that the power company would need to install a new transformer if a house wanted to upgrade their service?
It just depends, but for what it's worth-- in my area the power company installs a 200A transformer as their standard unit if you're building a residence unless you tell them that you're using a larger panel.
>300amp service from the electrical pole?
IDK if its common or not, but they make 300A rated meter packs, so I assume it's not out of the question. Around here they jump straight from 200A to 400A but that may be because of stocking/logistical convenience?
Just call the builders number for your power company and find out. I know it's kinda awkward to call them and ask about questions like this when you're an inexperience homeowner, but it's okay. Just tell them what you're going to do and ask what the process is or what the next step is. They'll get your info and put you in touch with a site engineer who will come out and talk over the process with you.
Sometimes they have a "blue book" that shows how they want things done.
>Okay. Is it really this simple?
Assuming that your jurisdiction allows a homeowner to pull electrical permits and do this kind of work (most red states apparently do, IDK about your region)...
>Can you give me a link to an example of this 3 gang meter socket with bus connection?
something like https://www.se.com/us/en/product/MP43200
They make them in all kinds of different ratings and configurations, so find one that works for your application. You can always get one that has a larger rating and then just run it using a 100A main breaker for each of your tenants. Whatever is economical and most convenient.
also be aware that you may run into some hiccups such as they may not allow 100A service to a residence or other adjustments to local codes.
You'll need a 3 gang meter socket with emergency disconnects/main breakers, then feeder to the 3 separate electrical panels for each space. You'll need to divert all wiring for each space to new panels, and any circuit altered will need AFCI protection. As for the drop the utility will guide you through that as most locations the demarc is the point of connection on the house.
You're a fricking idiot if you think you can do all that, and insurance/liability would be a major concern should you try.
i really want to become an electrician, easiest route for me seems to be getting an et card by taking some classes in community college. tried ibew but ranked really far back.
Youll need to call and see if they can provide a higher amperage service. Good luck on that too, because you will also need a certified electrician to come wire that in for you. Youll spend a few thousand easily for this upgrade, on top of renting out to people that will destroy your property.
each meter needs its own drop from the pole. and its own service.
This is incorrect.
Check the diagragm from SE:
Does that look like separate drops to you?
call an electrician
OP, I would highly recommend you get a copy of the NEC electrical codebook…you need to learn about wire ampacities.
It’s up to the utility company, so get in contact with them and ask them how this gets done. They will have their rules laid out in a public document somewhere, and ultimately you will need to pay them to come to your property and accomplish the necessary work. You can also hire an experienced electrician in your area who is familiar with this type of work, as very often the local sparky is the guy who actually put the meter box on your house originally
Stop being a slumlord and hire an electrition gay
>>the power company should supply the meter base
>Now this I haven't heard of. Everyone else tells me you have to buy your own, but it has to be one they approve of.
I've had them supply me with a meter base free-of-charge before but it was a standard single meter for a residence. IDK if that's a common practice among other PoCo's or if it's a regional thing, and IDK if it's a different story when you need something like a triple stack. They also provided me with a printed list of other pre-approved units that I could buy and use if I didn't want the standard single.
>Are you saying I need to have 3 masts and have new wiring from the electrical pole to 3 new meter sockets?
You're not going to need 3 separate masts and drops; that guy was just incorrect.
I'm sorry I don't have an answer about the emergency disconnect thing; they aren't required yet in my area (except for solar and backup generator installs) and IDK if the new code requires it. A lot of juridictions run several code cycles behind with their adoption of the new rules.
Congrats OP on being the most stubborn israelite on PrepHole. ALL of your dumb fricking questions could be answered by a phone call to the power company, but you'd rather solicit advice from a bunch of yak farmers on a Khazakhstani basket weaving forum.
Here's what happens: You install the new panels, breakers, and wiring. You connect the new panels to a meter base outside. Once the inspector signs off on your panels, the power company turns up and connects each panel to the pole.
You only need 100a meter bases. They aren't all wired together, each meter is fed separately off the pole. They won't need a new transformer on the pole just to connect two new 100a connections (unless you live in some third world favela). They'll install your meters and put seals on them and you're done.
That said, I sure hope you got zoning approval and permits to convert your house into a multi-family apartment. I guarantee your property isn't zoned for it now. Of course, you'll also need permits and inspections for the remodel work, a license to operate as a landlord, liability insurance, and occupancy permits (which require safety upgrades and more inspections). Oh, and don't forget to report all that rent money to the IRS at the end of the year too.
I hope the city gets wind of your illegal apartments and fist fricks you with fines and penalties.
>call the power company
I already said I planned on doing that, and was simply asking PrepHole for a quick breakdown so I can get an idea what what to ask them.
>I guarantee your property isn't zoned for it now. Of course
Except it is. My area allows split units like this. I know another guy that renovated and rents out his detached garage.
>license to operate as a landlord
Don't exist in my area.
>liability insurance
I already had that years ago.
>Oh, and don't forget to report all that rent money to the IRS at the end of the year too.
Yes, obviously. I have been doing that already.
>illegal apartments
They're literally legal.
Anyway thanks for the electrical advice.
>>call the power company
I already said I planned on doing that, and was simply asking PrepHole for a quick breakdown so I can get an idea what what to ask them.
Your quick breakdown was you posting your moronic idea and then taking offense when everyone shit on you for it. You never needed to post here, you could've just called and got your answers.
>>I guarantee your property isn't zoned for it now. Of course
Except it is. My area allows split units like this. I know another guy that renovated and rents out his detached garage.
"I know a guy who's getting away with it" is not the same thing as "I applied for a permit and got a variance from the zoning board". I'm 100% sure you don't have the proper zoning approval.
to operate as a landlord
Don't exist in my area.
Bullshit. Every state requires landlords to obtain either a license or permit to rent property and they all require safety inspections before occupancy. You never even checked.
insurance
I already had that years ago.
You have property insurance, sure. If you don't amend the policy to cover use as a rental you'll be screwed if you have to make a claim. "Sorry Mr. Sheckelberg, your policy doesn't cover the house if it's used as a rental." Oy vey!
>>Oh, and don't forget to report all that rent money to the IRS at the end of the year too.
Yes, obviously. I have been doing that already.
>illegal apartments
They're literally legal.
It might be legal to do but you aren't doing it legally.
>Your quick breakdown was you posting your moronic idea
What moronic idea? It was a great idea and anons explained why.
>then taking offense when everyone shit on you for it
What offence? lmao are you even in the right thread? Anons gave me legit advice that I thanked them for.
> You never needed to post here, you could've just called and got your answers.
Sure I'll just call them not knowing what a meter socket or transformer is. Good idea.
>I'm 100% sure you don't have the proper zoning approval.
It's literally allowed in my area. I researched this.
>Every state requires landlords to obtain either a license or permit to rent property
False
>If you don't amend the policy to cover use as a rental
Wow good thing I got liability insurance for my renters then years ago.
>Every state requires landlords to obtain either a license or permit to rent property
you're just fricking wrong, stupid, and autistic
>Every state requires landlords to obtain either a license or permit to rent property and they all require safety inspections before occupancy. You never even checked.
Not in SC, NC, GA or NY where I've variously rented then been a landlord. You spergtards should be killed.
This anon is correct for Georgia. I own four duplexes in Gwinnett County. There are no requirements of any kind for private rentals. The only time requirements come into it is when you are going to accept Section 8 vouchers, which no self-respecting independent landlord would ever do. BTW, I have never even paid a single penny of income tax on the rent I've collected for many years. Never reported any of it.
You will have to have engineered drawings produced, and then get them approved for construction at your local government planning and development department. If approved, you will be issued a building permit. The work must be completed by a state-licensed Electrician. You will not get an electrical meter set by the utility company for initial service until the work passes final inspection and is signed off by the local electrical inspector.
t. God-tier Electrician
>The work must be completed by a state-licensed Electrician.
This isn't true in many states. Why do you people say these things?
probably because he's larping
Wanna bet some money on that, homosexual?
I tell you what, son:
If you're an electrician then I'll let you suck my dick, but if you're not an electrician then you have to suck my wiener.
Uh huh sure thing, homosexual. Next time, keep your mouth shut, or be prepared to put your money where your wienersucker is.
Name one STATE that permits an unlicensed noob to install a multi-meter service. Post link to that.
Don't worry. I'll wait.s8gpmn
In some areas, you can get a homeowners permit. You would still have to pass inspection, and that is something you would not be able to do as a result of your lack of experience, knowledge, skill, and understanding. But if you want a shit-install that is potentially dangerous, go for it. I'm sure your insurance company will drop you quick. Please, post pics of your "electrical work".