Because a) pinfire systems became obsolete during the 1860s (right after this specific gun was invented) and are more expensive to make than standard centerfire cartridges, and b) it's a silly experimental design that isn't really useful for anything.
The main reason this gun was made was because it allowed the use of standard Minié muzzle-loading bullets and percussion caps, and allowed for 60-grain charges of black powder (which is fairly powerful) in a rifle made from 1860s quality steel, which was much less sturdy than even the steel used in most pre-WWI era firearms.
It's just one of a zillion different wierdo cartridges that came out during the first days of cartridge development. It was one of the bad ideas and it fell to the wayside of history. Same as lipfire (picrel), teatfire (
https://i.imgur.com/TpAXbzV.jpg
Booba
), etc.
https://i.imgur.com/lQkjXgi.png
What the frick? What would one want that for? Extra recoil for better cycling?
An article on these said they could penetrate 15 inch thick wooden boards with a 60 grain charge.
That sounds completely impossible for a lead bullet pushed by black powder.
I'd believe it if it was softwood boards, no way for hardwood.
Anyway, it's a .577 diameter slug with 60 grains of powder behind it out of a rifle-length barrel, that makes it a little weaker than a .577 Snider, or roughly comparable to a modern 20ga slug. It's certainly not anything insane, but it's no joke either.
Unironically I think something like this will be the new NATO 5.56 round in the next 20-30 years, it just makes sense if you can afford the maintenance costs.
Unironically I think something like this will be the new NATO 5.56 round in the next 20-30 years, it just makes sense if you can afford the maintenance costs.
Maybe it looks a bit like a pencil crayon, but i wouldnt say it looks funny, it looks great, efficient, imagine the magazine capacity.
>50% less volume >The same or greater power
Why not put the super-powder in the original case and get ass blasting mach four 5.56 rounds shattering level IV armor and blowing fist sized holes through frickers?
That's not entirely how powders work. There's a whole bunch of weird shit that goes on with cartridge design including the volume of the cartridge, the fill percentage, and the overall pressure in the cartridge that change how the powder behaves. There are a few powders out there that work well when packed tightly into a case, but do really weird stuff and pressure spike unpredictably if used in smaller quantities in the same sized case. Hodgedon H-110/WW296 (same powder, different label) is one of the most notorious powders for this. It's known to be one of if not the best powder for magnum handgun loading. However, if you reduce the charge more than 20%, there's a decent chance you will blow your gun up. Also, it's not like we don't have more energy-dense powders than those used in modern 5.56x45 rounds. Pistol powders contain way more energy in a smaller quantity. The kicker is, they burn too fast to really take advantage of a rifle barrel. The pressure spikes quickly, and then by the time the bullet moves down the barrel most of the powder has converted to gas. Meanwhile, magnum handgun powder contains a bunch of moronants that make it less energy efficient, but slow the burn down so that there's still powder converting to gas the whole time the bullet is moving down the barrel, keeping the pressure more consistent. Rifle propellents do the exact same thing one step further, and magnum rifle propellents a step further than that, using the larger case capacities to make up for the fact the propellents are less efficient but allow for more consistent pressure to achieve greater muzzle velocity.
I imagine something similar might be going on with this powder, for whatever reason it doesn't like the standard 5.56x45 case but works well in the smaller straight-walled case. Another possibility is, they upped the pressure while using a more efficient and faster burning powder, and are using the extra chamber thickness to handle the higher pressure spike.
>, magnum handgun powder contains a bunch of moronants
They don't just use a larger grain size? You know, as has been the main method of controlling burn rate since the 16th century.
Eh, different grain size and shape is used a little bit in modern smokeless propellent, but to a large extent it really is just a handful of different base propellent formulas and a thousand different moronants and methods of applying those moronants that make up all the different propellent formulas on the market. For example, Green dot, red dot, and blue dot are all the same propellent just with progressively greater moronation, as are hp-38, HS-6, HS-7, and (I think) H110. There's a limit to what can be done with most propellent via manipulating grain size, as there's a large focus in modern commercial loading and handloading on making sure the propellent flows and meters well during the loading process and isn't sensitive to vibration, temperature, or case position.
Smokeless powder is a lot more complicated than the name "powder" suggests. Look at it up close with a magnifier and its' almost never powder, but tiny engineered shapes sort of like pasta. Sometimes the powder is tiny spheres, partially-flattened spheres, discs, very often hollow or lobe-shaped rods or sticks. The shape is carefully made to control the burn rate. There are also coatings applied to the powder grains which affect how fast the powder first burns.
These are pieces of smokeless "gunpowder" from a 16" naval gun. Note the holes down the center of each grain which increase surface area. Different number and shape holes affect the burn rate and therefore the pressure curve in different ways. This site is about rocketry but it explains the general principle:
https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/th_grain.html
3 months ago
Anonymous
>anon links nakka
First time I have ever seen anyone else talk about that site, have you fricked around with solid motors? I made a few in the ~200N range out of PVC years ago, good fun.
Maybe it looks a bit like a pencil crayon, but i wouldnt say it looks funny, it looks great, efficient, imagine the magazine capacity.
Looks too much like a crayone - Marines will try eating them. Military wwill lose tens of millions on medical& dental care.
[...]
[...] >50% less volume >The same or greater power
Why not put the super-powder in the original case and get ass blasting mach four 5.56 rounds shattering level IV armor and blowing fist sized holes through frickers?
Because the idea that the US is ever going to fight an army of people all wearing level 4 armor is a fantasy. Likewise, the idea that US forces will ever fight outside of artillery support range is a fantasy
>Better propellent and better alloys allow a smaller cartridge
Makes sense to me. Like going from 30-06 to 7.62 NATO. Same bullet and performance in a smaller case.
7.62 is ~20% smaller, but also about ~10% less powerful.
Still impressive, but not nearly as much so as that crayon boolit (assuming that it actually met its claims)
Apparently it was supposed to help with the exact principle I outlined here
That's not entirely how powders work. There's a whole bunch of weird shit that goes on with cartridge design including the volume of the cartridge, the fill percentage, and the overall pressure in the cartridge that change how the powder behaves. There are a few powders out there that work well when packed tightly into a case, but do really weird stuff and pressure spike unpredictably if used in smaller quantities in the same sized case. Hodgedon H-110/WW296 (same powder, different label) is one of the most notorious powders for this. It's known to be one of if not the best powder for magnum handgun loading. However, if you reduce the charge more than 20%, there's a decent chance you will blow your gun up. Also, it's not like we don't have more energy-dense powders than those used in modern 5.56x45 rounds. Pistol powders contain way more energy in a smaller quantity. The kicker is, they burn too fast to really take advantage of a rifle barrel. The pressure spikes quickly, and then by the time the bullet moves down the barrel most of the powder has converted to gas. Meanwhile, magnum handgun powder contains a bunch of moronants that make it less energy efficient, but slow the burn down so that there's still powder converting to gas the whole time the bullet is moving down the barrel, keeping the pressure more consistent. Rifle propellents do the exact same thing one step further, and magnum rifle propellents a step further than that, using the larger case capacities to make up for the fact the propellents are less efficient but allow for more consistent pressure to achieve greater muzzle velocity.
I imagine something similar might be going on with this powder, for whatever reason it doesn't like the standard 5.56x45 case but works well in the smaller straight-walled case. Another possibility is, they upped the pressure while using a more efficient and faster burning powder, and are using the extra chamber thickness to handle the higher pressure spike.
. In theory, the folded design would mean more complete burning of slower-burning powders, resulting in both more efficient and more powerful ammunition that can also work better in shorter barreled weapons. Also, because the case is polymer, they were supposed to be much lighter than standard brass-cased ammunition. They also designed several versions that would shoot three projectiles out of three barrels with a single chamber. It's one of those ideas that looks good on paper, but is pretty obviously moronic when you step back and actually consider things beyond that narrow scope.
my penis looks like this. should I visit a doctor?
you're just a healthy growing young man, don't worry about it
All I know is that you didn't have a nice day
are you epstien?
Should we start calling you Egg Dick?
It's Weinstein with the egg dick, anon. I know, it's hard to keep all the rapey israelites straight nowadays.
i need someone like you in my ranks, how tall are you my precious boy
Shut the frick up Fritz
Do you like your nipples rubbed during sex?
egg rifle
You have to eat all the eggs
Who will drop first, PSA or those crackheads?
Redpill me on the egg. Why does no one use it anymore?
Because a) pinfire systems became obsolete during the 1860s (right after this specific gun was invented) and are more expensive to make than standard centerfire cartridges, and b) it's a silly experimental design that isn't really useful for anything.
The main reason this gun was made was because it allowed the use of standard Minié muzzle-loading bullets and percussion caps, and allowed for 60-grain charges of black powder (which is fairly powerful) in a rifle made from 1860s quality steel, which was much less sturdy than even the steel used in most pre-WWI era firearms.
It's just one of a zillion different wierdo cartridges that came out during the first days of cartridge development. It was one of the bad ideas and it fell to the wayside of history. Same as lipfire (picrel), teatfire (
), etc.
shorter overall length, mostly.
More Teatfire cartridges here.
An article on these said they could penetrate 15 inch thick wooden boards with a 60 grain charge.
That sounds completely impossible for a lead bullet pushed by black powder.
I'd believe it if it was softwood boards, no way for hardwood.
Anyway, it's a .577 diameter slug with 60 grains of powder behind it out of a rifle-length barrel, that makes it a little weaker than a .577 Snider, or roughly comparable to a modern 20ga slug. It's certainly not anything insane, but it's no joke either.
hehe, It looks like small penis
check this out then
spicy ice cream
my peanits :DDD
Look Kim, it's my microphone.
Epstien lives and he's on this thread
Gon?
neat, all the wild old stuff that got tried in the past is always fun to see
Haha, can you imagine putting it in your butt and having the bullet poking out and mooning people while saying "I'm mr. bullet butt".
If I shoved that up my ass would I die?
It would be extremely painful…
It's a big bullet
For you
This is now a funny looking cartridge thread. post em.
>pencil
Unironically I think something like this will be the new NATO 5.56 round in the next 20-30 years, it just makes sense if you can afford the maintenance costs.
Maybe it looks a bit like a pencil crayon, but i wouldnt say it looks funny, it looks great, efficient, imagine the magazine capacity.
>50% less volume
>The same or greater power
Why not put the super-powder in the original case and get ass blasting mach four 5.56 rounds shattering level IV armor and blowing fist sized holes through frickers?
That's not entirely how powders work. There's a whole bunch of weird shit that goes on with cartridge design including the volume of the cartridge, the fill percentage, and the overall pressure in the cartridge that change how the powder behaves. There are a few powders out there that work well when packed tightly into a case, but do really weird stuff and pressure spike unpredictably if used in smaller quantities in the same sized case. Hodgedon H-110/WW296 (same powder, different label) is one of the most notorious powders for this. It's known to be one of if not the best powder for magnum handgun loading. However, if you reduce the charge more than 20%, there's a decent chance you will blow your gun up. Also, it's not like we don't have more energy-dense powders than those used in modern 5.56x45 rounds. Pistol powders contain way more energy in a smaller quantity. The kicker is, they burn too fast to really take advantage of a rifle barrel. The pressure spikes quickly, and then by the time the bullet moves down the barrel most of the powder has converted to gas. Meanwhile, magnum handgun powder contains a bunch of moronants that make it less energy efficient, but slow the burn down so that there's still powder converting to gas the whole time the bullet is moving down the barrel, keeping the pressure more consistent. Rifle propellents do the exact same thing one step further, and magnum rifle propellents a step further than that, using the larger case capacities to make up for the fact the propellents are less efficient but allow for more consistent pressure to achieve greater muzzle velocity.
I imagine something similar might be going on with this powder, for whatever reason it doesn't like the standard 5.56x45 case but works well in the smaller straight-walled case. Another possibility is, they upped the pressure while using a more efficient and faster burning powder, and are using the extra chamber thickness to handle the higher pressure spike.
>, magnum handgun powder contains a bunch of moronants
They don't just use a larger grain size? You know, as has been the main method of controlling burn rate since the 16th century.
Eh, different grain size and shape is used a little bit in modern smokeless propellent, but to a large extent it really is just a handful of different base propellent formulas and a thousand different moronants and methods of applying those moronants that make up all the different propellent formulas on the market. For example, Green dot, red dot, and blue dot are all the same propellent just with progressively greater moronation, as are hp-38, HS-6, HS-7, and (I think) H110. There's a limit to what can be done with most propellent via manipulating grain size, as there's a large focus in modern commercial loading and handloading on making sure the propellent flows and meters well during the loading process and isn't sensitive to vibration, temperature, or case position.
Smokeless powder is a lot more complicated than the name "powder" suggests. Look at it up close with a magnifier and its' almost never powder, but tiny engineered shapes sort of like pasta. Sometimes the powder is tiny spheres, partially-flattened spheres, discs, very often hollow or lobe-shaped rods or sticks. The shape is carefully made to control the burn rate. There are also coatings applied to the powder grains which affect how fast the powder first burns.
These are pieces of smokeless "gunpowder" from a 16" naval gun. Note the holes down the center of each grain which increase surface area. Different number and shape holes affect the burn rate and therefore the pressure curve in different ways. This site is about rocketry but it explains the general principle:
https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/th_grain.html
>anon links nakka
First time I have ever seen anyone else talk about that site, have you fricked around with solid motors? I made a few in the ~200N range out of PVC years ago, good fun.
Looks too much like a crayone - Marines will try eating them. Military wwill lose tens of millions on medical& dental care.
Because the idea that the US is ever going to fight an army of people all wearing level 4 armor is a fantasy. Likewise, the idea that US forces will ever fight outside of artillery support range is a fantasy
>Better propellent and better alloys allow a smaller cartridge
Makes sense to me. Like going from 30-06 to 7.62 NATO. Same bullet and performance in a smaller case.
7.62 is ~20% smaller, but also about ~10% less powerful.
Still impressive, but not nearly as much so as that crayon boolit (assuming that it actually met its claims)
https://militarycartridges.com/category/033-5-56mm-folded/
What the frick? What would one want that for? Extra recoil for better cycling?
Apparently it was supposed to help with the exact principle I outlined here
. In theory, the folded design would mean more complete burning of slower-burning powders, resulting in both more efficient and more powerful ammunition that can also work better in shorter barreled weapons. Also, because the case is polymer, they were supposed to be much lighter than standard brass-cased ammunition. They also designed several versions that would shoot three projectiles out of three barrels with a single chamber. It's one of those ideas that looks good on paper, but is pretty obviously moronic when you step back and actually consider things beyond that narrow scope.
Plant in soil, let grow for 6 months, then harvest bollets
Booba
?si=JLl7wf7yUNixjOpE