Dry Fire Laser System
Which dry fire / laser system is best?
Looking into Mantis Laser Academy
Most laser systems don't allow multiple shots with a Glock.
Something like Cool Fire with CO2 seems decent with kickback, but the site recently pulled most options.
What are /k/'s thoughts?
They're a gimmick and you'll get nothing out of them that you won't get out of just paying attention when you dryfire, which you should be doing anyway.
Look at what high-level comp shooters use with their dry fire practice. (Hint: it's IPSC targets on the wall scaled for distance and an empty gun)
Save the money and buy ammo.
FIPPY BIPPY
Mantis works pretty well, never gone for anything fancier but it's cheap and straight forward.
fpwp what a fricking moron. You can do drills with them you can't with regular dry fire.
>comp shooters
Nobody cares about those homosexuals who can spend unlimited money and are training for comp not just basic self defense.
>save the money
Yeah an entire $30 for a laser cartridge is going to buy just loads of ammo good one gay.
Will they help everyone for everything? No of course not. Are they a potentially useful fun tool particularly for people on a tight budget and with perhaps minimal easy shooting opportunities? Sure.
Nta, but your argument makes no sense:
>Nobody cares about those homosexuals who can spend unlimited money and are training for comp not just basic self defense.
Comp shooters have lots of money to spend, therefore their opinion on not spending money on gimmicky products is invalid?
These products may be helpful for people who have difficulty putting shots on target at all, but beyond that I don't really see the point. A simple paper target will suffice. I have nothing against them, I just don't see the point.
>Comp shooters have lots of money to spend, therefore their opinion on not spending money on gimmicky products is invalid?
Yes. Because
>don't spend $30-100 on this cheap training thing you can do for free for the next 10 years in some apartment with no range within a half hour
>spend $10000/year on ammo and range time instead!
is dumb.
>but beyond that I don't really see the point. A simple paper target will suffice. I have nothing against them, I just don't see the point.
They're more fun then regular dry fire. You can practice stuff like shooting from draw as well. Comp people are pros and like any serious sports pro will be motivated regardless of if given training is boring or not. For a lot of regular people having something more interesting and being able to do an indoor set of interesting targets they can practice using their regular gun with will get them to practice more. For good understandable reasons.
Like come on anon, you can't be unaware that there are a billion different things to spice up exercise in general. Some people love it and have no problem being disciplined about hitting the treadmill/rowing machine/bike or whatever. Lots don't.
$10000/year on ammo and range time instead!
Anon literally every serious comp shooter on the planet, pro or not, will tell you that for every live round they fire, they probably dryfire 100 times. And these are people who put 10k rounds through their guns a year.
If the mantisX wasn't a waste of money they'd all use it.
If you think it's fun, that's fine. But it's not making you a better shooter, at all.
Anon I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but like much of this site you have severe autism.
>But it's not making you a better shooter, at all.
This is wrong, for two reasons as I explained to you. #1 being doing stuff that isn't really doable with dry fire, that you could do with real shooting, but that a lot of normal people cannot do with real shooting more than once in a blue moon. And #2 because
>they probably dryfire 100 times
which normal people don't do either. Anything that helps get people to actually do this stuff therefore is indeed helping make them a better shooter.
Again, this is identical to regular exercise. If you asked an Olympian their training routine, it wouldn't necessarily be very useful to the majority of people. Obviously it works. If you tell someone "just go jog/bike an hour or two a day then lift weights for a half hour in silence while you mentally go over your opponents" well if they did that they'd get PrepHoleter. But most people don't even get the bare minimum of 20 minutes 3x a week. But a lot of people will get exercise from fitness games, or those fancy exercise bikes with video built-in or whatever else.
>Anon I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but like much of this site you have severe autism.
Lol. Lmao
Whatever makes you feel better about wasting money on gimmicks and still being a shit-tier shooter, anon.
>all this seethe at the truth
lmao hit a nerve. Keep sperging out though!
>doing stuff that isn't really doable with dry fire, that you could do with real shooting
Once again, provide an example of what you mean by this
>Anything that helps get people to actually do this stuff therefore is indeed helping make them a better shooter.
training wrong is better than zero exercise at all but is shit compared to actual practice.
this is pokemon go for 30 minutes vs walking for 30 minutes. okay pokemon go got you out of the house and its way better than sitting at home but when you goal was walking for 30 minutes its shit as you stop every 10 ft for a few minutes to catch pokemon.
I love how this moron has pivoted from "these provide a tangible benefit to the quality of your training over regular dryfire which is literally free" to "regular dryfire is BORING I need it to be a heckin videogamarino or I won't do it!"
I just want to make sure I'm understanding you here: is your argument not that "dryfire training aids" like the mantisX provide a tangible improvement in the benefits of dryfire training, but that they make it personally more stimulating to you?
It does both. You're just too fricking stupid anon. It's ok though, there's no IQ test for this place.
The IQ test is whether you fell for the MantisX and Dryfire mag meme lmao
Maybe dry fire systems are Giffen goods. If you have tons of money to spend on ammo, you might not see the utility in an elaborate dry fire system, opting instead to just practice live fire instead. A poorgay on the other hand, lacking the financial means to engage in frequent live fire, may choose one of these systems in lieu of time at the range.
Literally all it will tell you is if your muzzle moves when you pull the trigger and guess the frick what, so will using your eyes to look at what your sights or dot does in relation to the target when you pull the trigger lmao.
>comp shooters who can spend unlimited money choose not to spend money on these gimmicks and instead just dryfire with an empty gun or maybe snap caps, and several of them will outright say "yeah I checked out mantisX/whatever, it didn't really do anything for me"
Do you see the issue with what you're saying? If they have unlimited money to improve their performance and these devices aren't a waste of money, why would they not use them?
>You can do drills with them you can't with regular dry fire.
Name one.
>Yeah an entire $30 for a laser cartridge
Know what's less that $30 and will do a frickload more to improve your shooting than some gimmick bullshit? Pic related.
the guys with unlimited money decide not to use those, not a very good sign
Room temp IQs like you decide not to use them, very good sign.
This is so insanely wrong
My trigger control grew leaps and bounds because of training with one of these
Literally all it does is tell you if you jerked the muzzle when you pulled the trigger dude. Are you legitimately not able to tell whether or not the alignment of your eye, the sights/dot, and target changed when you pulled the trigger?
Again
>if you pay attention while dry firing and are honest about what you're doing, which you should be doing regardless, devices like the MantisX should be giving you no data that that your eyes are not already providing. Did the fricking muzzle move when you pulled the trigger or did it not? Why do you need to spend $100 on a laser and another $100 on a magazine that resets the trigger for you to tell you that
This is poorgay cope
Its 1000 times better not only can you see your impacts and know if you had good follow through,
But you can also pull the trigger multiple times in a row instead of training in bad habbits like racking the slide after every shot
Not having to rack the slide every time you shoot alone makes it worth it
The only reason to be against it is because your broke ass saw the price tag and then justified yourself not needing it in your own head
I love how earlier in the thread I have unlimited money because I shoot USPSA and now I'm a poorgay because I think dryfire mags and meme laser trainers are a waste of money that you could be spending on ammo lmao
>rack the slide every shot
Anon, I want you to go to the website YouTube dot com and I want you to watch Jerry Miculek, Ben Stoeger, and Joel Park do some dryfire drills, then I want you to realize you have been dryfiring wrong which is why you're bad at shooting
You obviously don't know what the frick you're talking about
Hur dur seeing if you hit your target doesn't matter
Just fling shots into the air
Thats how you get good
>They're a gimmick and you'll get nothing out of them that you won't get out of just paying attention when you dryfire, which you should be doing anyway.
imagine having an opinion so bereft of Black persondom that you post it
I can't tell if you agree with me or just don't know what "bereft" means
Snap caps for malfunction drills, TRT to prevent slide lock, and the cheapest mantis for easier “coin/casing on front sight post” drills. The rest are all terrible, I tried the cool fire during the pandemic when ammo was gone and the ranges in my liberal area were closed and it was very temperamental. I traded it for a SIRT, which I soon traded for the fancy mantis.
The double alpha dry fire magazine, just weighted practice mags are fun for reloading drills without having to drop your real magazines.
for pistol a dry fire mag would be fine
for rifle, the mantis is good
>but why
multiple target drills or anything that would require follow up shots, also practicing not pinning the trigger to the rear
>multiple target drills or anything that would require follow up shots, also practicing not pinning the trigger to the rear
learning how to game a laser on a zero recoil gun will not help you with followup shots.
its just going to help you practice wrong
>tools of dry fire
>revolver
>6 snap caps
Revolver chads keep winning.
>have 22 revolver
>snap caps flatten over time because the firing pin hits the rim instead of the center
its over, revolverbros
Aaaaaaand we're winning again...
https://www.amazon.com/Hillman-370326-Ribbed-Plastic-100-Pack/dp/B000H5WVCS
Reminder, dryfire practice done incorrectly can negatively impact your shooting technique. bad practice = bad habits = you dead in the streets
>people who tell you to buy these things all have affiliate links
>people who tell you not to buy these things are national champion Grand Master level shooters
HMMM INTERESTING
Min/maxing enthusiasts and gun industry marketing ruin shit and confuse the frick out of noobs and normies. Most gun owners don't shoot or practice. If you go to the range 12 times a year and practice your draw and presentation at home for even 15 minutes a month you are probably in the top 30% of all gun owners.
Shit is not that complicated. 60IQ Black folk manage to get hits on center mass every day.
Pic related is cheaper than every "Dry Fire Training Aid" and will do much, much more to make you not shit with a pistol, and at no point in the book will it tell you to buy a "Dry Fire Training Aid"
SRT pistol and some tape on the wall
Then you can get the DFAT if you want to practice long range scope work indoors.
I don't know a single person who owns any of this shit who can shoot worth a frick lmao
>but the site recently pulled most options.
They did?
Normal dryfire training will never compare to a SIRT pistol or Mantis Blackbeard because pulling the trigger is only a portion of marksmanship
With laser trainers you can actually see your impact and see if its a big blur meaning you are flinching
>spending the cost of a case of 115gr 9mm fmj on a laser pistol will provide more benefit than conscientious dryfire practice plus applying the lessons learned in that dryfire practice while shooting that case of 115gr 9mm fmj.
>spending the cost of a case of 115gr 9mm fmj on a laser pistol will provide more benefit than conscientious dryfire practice plus applying the lessons learned in that dryfire practice while shooting that case of 115gr 9mm fmj.
Yes 100%
You can use it infinitely
And it increases how often you do dryfire training and how useful that dryfire training is
I can get in more trigger presses in a minute than you can in 10
And I am not poor so I can also get ammo and know for a fact that my dryfire training is helping my shot immensely
I literally know for a fricking fact that these things work
You can cope all you want in this thread about how poor you are
But thats not my problem
>With laser trainers you can actually see your impact and see if its a big blur meaning you are flinching
Seeing where you hit isnt important. It never was.
lets put it this way somebody shooting steel who has to wait till he hears the gong for that positive reinforcement that he actually hit before he takes the next shot is going to be slower than somebody who just pulls the trigger twice.
knowing where you hit is irrelevant to dryfire practice. if you are focusing on target results you are doing it wrong. these training aids make you focus on the wrong shit.
>Seeing where you hit isnt important. It never was
This is the dumbest thing that will ever be said on /k/ without a doubt
You will never be a marksman
When you go to the range you don't check the target after?
LMAO You're literally fricking moronic
>When you go to the range you don't check the target after?
when you shoot something thats not paper it falls over and isnt in the same spot it was when you shot it.
if you did it right you know if you fricked up during the the trigger pull.
its like a bowler knowing if he missed or before the bowling ball hits the pins cause he knows his muscle memory.
If I gave you a SIRT pistol for free you would take it and use it no doubt
You're posting cope
Just because you don't want to pony up for it doesn't mean its not better than normal dryfire
Its also 100 times safer than normal dryfire
>If I gave you a SIRT pistol for free you would take it and use it no doubt
what does it do that a da/sa gun doesnt? oh wow i can pull the trigger twice
i dont need or want an sirt to do that my gun already has that function
His only gun is probably a glock, which makes it even funnier that he's trying to cry poorgay lol
GUYS DON'T GET A SHOT TIMER EITHER YOU CAN JUST COUNT IN YOUR HEAD IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LONG THINGS TAKE AND IT DOESN'T MATTER SEEING IF YOU HIT ANYTHING
Here's my shot timer and the gun I've been dryfiring with while reading this moronic conversation anon
let's see YOUR shot timer and a gun you own ;^)
> no shot timer
Hmm
Also couldn't afford a nicer optic for the $2000 gun huh
My ACOG is on my LMT
>still no shot timer
Hmmmm
>that whole rifle
If you think this is impressive it's not. I'm glad you own guns even if you set them up like a moron but we're discussing dryfire practice and specifically YOU mentioned shot timers.
Being able to spot your hits and tell if your trigger press was ass is hugely important
And you are poorgay coping cause you can't afford one
>it doesn't matter if you hit the target
This is literally the stupidest thing I have ever read on /k/. I'm not sure if you're pretending to be moronic, but it's honestly remarkable. Congratulations
>it doesn't matter if you hit the target
its not that you didnt hit
its that you hit and dont particularly care exactly where you hit because the specifics dont matter. because that doesnt carry over to livefire. your gun isnt a laser pointer.
when you are paying attention to where exactly you hit you are focusing on the wrong shit. you should be paying attention to being able to pull the trigger while maintaining a good sight picture without the gun moving at all.
>and tell if your trigger press was ass is hugely important
a competent person who knows what they are doing doesnt need fancy tools to tell that. you know if you fricked up during the pull. something like oh the sight dipped i did it wrong.
if you need additional tools to tell you hey your doing it wrong you are a novice shooter.
>you should be paying attention to being able to pull the trigger while maintaining a good sight picture without the gun moving at all.
b***h I've literally been saying this the entire thread. I disagree with you that "knowing where you hit is irrelevant to dryfire practice" becuase having a good sight picture and not fricking that sight picture up pulling the trigger = you hit the target.
But your eyes will tell you that, you don't need a laser to tell you that. When you dryfite you should be focusing on building the muscle memory that allows you to hit the target in live fire.
But a laser trainer and a dryfire mag don't help you do that
>becuase having a good sight picture and not fricking that sight picture up pulling the trigger = you hit the target.
exactly
does adding a dot on the picture on your phone change that?
no it doesnt
that phone target pic or laser pointer is superfluous
That's what I've been saying since I posted this
lmao
>With laser trainers you can actually see your impact
No, you can't. At least not if you're actually focussed on your sights, like you should be. You could use some sort of laser target to tell you if you got a hit tho.
I thought there was a new option out that reset the glock trigger like the mantis blackbeard does for the AR, but it turns out it has no moving parts and it's just an overpriced mantis unit with accelerometers. Something blue tech it's called, it's two fake magazines for 300 bucks.
The mantis being a rail-mounted unit, even for the same price, is vastly superior. I'd like to see something like the blackbeard for a glock, so far coolfire is it and the price of entry has always kept me away, looks like a lot of people feel that way because the website is kind of fricked. I don't see how they would sell even one if the laser can't be bought with it.
The mantis is pricey but if it gets you to do dry fire practice and gives you useful feedback with issues, that's worth the buy-in. You should try plain dry fire for a week without shelling out money, as people have been doing that for decades to improve their skill.
DRYFIRE TUTORIAL FOR moronS:
NOTES: THIS PRIMARILY APPLIES TO PISTOLS, BUT MUCH OF IT CARRIES OVER TO DYNAMIC CARBINE SHIT. FOR MORE INFORMATION ON RIFLE TRAINING, SEE THE BOOK "ADAPTIVE RIFLE". FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ON GENERAL HANDGUN DRYFIRE, SEE "PRACTICAL SHOOTING TRAINING", "REFINEMENT AND REPETITION" "DRYFIRE RELOADED", ETC.
1. SETUP
>if striker gun
PLACE A FOLDED UP STRIP OF PAPER, A ZIP TIE, ETC. IN BETWEEN THE CHAMBER AND SLIDE IN ORDER TO HOLD THE SLIDE SLIGHTLY OUT OF BATTERY. THIS WILL ENABLE THE TRIGGER TO "RESET" BETWEEN PULLS. YOU CAN NOW DO THINGS THAT INVOLVE MULTIPLE TRIGGER PULLS. WOW. YOU WILL NOT FEEL THE WALL. THIS IS FINE. YOU DO NOT NEED TO FEEL THE WALL. YOU SIMPLY NEED TO BE ABLE TO PULL THE TRIGGER THROUGH ITS RANGE OF MOTION WITHOUT FRICKING MOVING THE GUN.
>if DA/SA gun
USE A DOUBLE ACTION FIRST SHOT, AND THEN FOR SUBSEQUENT SHOTS, SIMPLY DON'T RELAX YOUR FINGER FAR ENOUGH FOR DOUBLE ACTION RESETS.
>if 1911/2011
CONGRATS ON HAVING NO TRIGGER TRAVEL. YOU CAN TAP THE DEAD TRIGGER WITH YOUR FINGER. ALTERNATIVELY, USE TAPE OR SOMETHING TO SECURE YOUR HAMMER TO THE BEAVERTAIL. NOW YOU HAVE A TRIGGER THAT RETURNS FORWARD
2. TIMING
YOU CAN USE A DRYFIRE PAR TIMER APP OR YOU CAN USE AN ACTUAL SHOT TIMER SET TO PAR TIMES. AS YOU BEGIN TO WORK ON MORE COMPLEX, DYNAMIC DRILLS, YOU MAY FIND THAT YOU NO LONGER NEED OR BENEFIT FROM A TIMER OUTSIDE OF ISOLATED FUNDAMENTALS.
3. TARGETS
YOU CAN USE LIGHT SWITCHES, PAINTERS TAPE ON THE WALL, OR SPECIALLY PURCHASED SCALED DOWN CARDBOARD USPSA/IPSC TARGETS. IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER
4. DRILLS
THE SKY IS THE LIMIT, BUT THE DRILLS FROM REFINEMENT AND REPETITION ARE A GOOD PLACE TO START:
You're so full of angry cope lmao one day you'll come out of your 16 year old brain and learn there's other perspectives you haven't considered yet. one day
Lmao that's literally cope. Until you can prove otherwise, I'm not interested in the perspective of someone who is demonstrably worse at shooting than I am on how to get good at shooting.
>shit physique
>shit stance
>dressed like a homosexual
>wet ass from all the cum inside you
lmao stay hurt homosexual, ofcourse you're a competition Black person. probably suck off that homosexual armed.asian too pretending that your splits equate to real life skills or some gay shit
Cope and see the, skill-less loser
>boomer homosexual sunglasses
you would homosexual
>IT'S NOT A BINARY OPTION
I'm not the guy shilling dry fire products. I'm just pointing out that there's a plausible economic argument for why competitive shooters with lots of money might eschew the use of an elaborate dry fire system, even if it were effective.
competitive shooters with not a lot of money (way more than you might expect) also eschew the use of elaborate dry fire systems. the reason for this is that they are either detrimental or significantly less beneficial than conventional practical dryfire training. It's very frustrating that when people hear "dryfire" the immediate assumption is simply pulling the trigger on an empty chamber. Literally "dryfiring" the gun. That's not what effective dryfire practice is.