go take a video of you shooting clays with a normal shotgun. every time you miss at least one of your squad mates gets turned into a screaming pile of hamburger.
shotguns aren't the tool to defeat drones.
Disciplined and effective EWAR is the only way to do anything meaningful against drones.
and weigh down your troops with worthless bullshit.
or you could invest in something that actually works.
Why don't we have thousands of videos of rag heads blowing up Americans troops with drones? is it because Americans had shotguns or because they had disciplined and effective EWAR? >NOOOO, I won't go to the skeet range, I don't know how to use a shotgun!!!1!1!1
>he thinks you can just mass produce and send every squad EW >he thinks it's viable for a bunch of slav rats to carry around packs all day long but having a 4-5lb auto loader sitting in the trench is unrealistic
Lel
Jej
Kek
EW >actually works >doesn't rely on the skill of the operator beyond setting it up >can cover a fairly large area and offer protection to a bunch of troops
Lol I love how you morons think thar they will magically accumulate enough EW to make any kind of difference overnight when they already have shotguns in the country that aren't being utilized
>4-5lb auto loader sitting in the trench is unrealistic
ok, show me a 4-5lb semi-automatic shotgun that you have shot. >NOOOOO I KNOW A LOT ABOUT SHOTGUNS, JUST NOT HOW TO SHOOT THEM OR HOW MUCH THEY WEIGH!!1!!1!1!
Americans weren't blown up by drones because they had effective and disciplined EWAR, not because they had shotguns.
Tac14
Only third worlders don't invest in ewar. The writing has been on the wall for communication disruption to be a basic necessity since the advent of the handheld radio.
Correct, which is why issuing them things they understand makes sense
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Tac14
damn that's crazy how it is neither sub 5 pounds nor semi-automatic. >also I expect people to be hitting high-speed, low visual contrast target under the stress of combat WITH A FRICKING STOCKLESS, PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN
you are a fricking pathetic clown.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Oh yeah? Well yor gay
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Unloaded
Now how much does it weigh loaded
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well my guess is it would depend on what ammo you insert
>4-5lb auto loader sitting in the trench is unrealistic
ok, show me a 4-5lb semi-automatic shotgun that you have shot. >NOOOOO I KNOW A LOT ABOUT SHOTGUNS, JUST NOT HOW TO SHOOT THEM OR HOW MUCH THEY WEIGH!!1!!1!1!
Americans weren't blown up by drones because they had effective and disciplined EWAR, not because they had shotguns.
>America and the most impoverished c**t in Europe should be compared in any way shape or form
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
yes, because both of them don't want their soldiers blown up by drones. if you don't want your troops to be blown up by drones you invest in effective and disciplined EWAR.
if you want your troops blown up by drones you do anything except that.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
The Ukrainians/Russians have had billions of dollars and years to develope EWAR and they just won't, why do you think that is?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anyone have an answer for this?
Is it because they think losing their troops.to drones is a nothing burger or is it because this tech is beyond their grasp?
light beam controlled drones will make EWAR useless. a cheap laser will be able to control a drone from miles away, and in turn it will be controlled via cheap landline maybe a mile long that will be unrolled off a wheeled spool by one dude, or maybe even a large work dog.
Only third worlders don't invest in ewar. The writing has been on the wall for communication disruption to be a basic necessity since the advent of the handheld radio.
Communication disruption has been known since spoken word.
Kill a runner and you stop an order.
Jam a signal and you stop an order.
Same end with different means.
Turdies really are just that bad at war.
How did you miss 20% on a clear range, well rested, under no stress, calling the brightly colored predictable targets with 0 surprise whatsoever while nobody is shooting at you?
because at any good skeet course, where the clays come from varies from station to station and each presents a different challenge. you may not even know where it's coming from
wow Black person it's almost like the fricking drones you're trying to shoot at, only the first time you miss you get turned into bone shards and ground meat
Barrel length barely matters, I bust clays with an 18.5" and have no issue with Accounting for the fact that the barrel is so far under the sights may be a pain at first but shotties are rather intuitive weapons, to begin with.
The biggest problem is that most people who get droned are oblivious to the drone's presence.
You won't shoot it if you don't see it.
electronic countermeasures are not going to be sufficient. you need some sort of kinetic kill vehicle.
the reason i say this is i think pretty obvious if you understand what "electronic countermeasures" actually means. what it means is, for example, your controller for the drone is talking to the drone with radio waves.
if i have a big radio transmitter that just sends out loads of radio waves around me, i can overpower your transmitter's signal and the drone won't be able to talk to you.
that's it. that's what jamming does. that's the electronic countermeasure. you make it so noisy that real signals are blocked out.
how big is that sphere of radio jamming? it's not that frickin big. i don't have numbers but i can't imagine it being that big.
here's how you beat it: you have cameras on the drone already. it's not very intense to run a computer vision model on the drone that recognizes objects. you can do this on a smartphone, it's not very intense.
so, you have the drone outside of the jamming sphere, and you're controlling it remotely. on your screen, you can see a tank and there's a little box drawn around it. you click the tank, and the drone locks on. from here on out, the drone is just flying directly to the tank. it gets close enough and contact-detonates. the jamming doesn't matter, because the guidance is running on the drone. so long as you can identify and pick the target outside of the jammed area, it'll fly itself there.
there is no practical electronic countermeasure to that. that will be the next step in drone warfare. computer vision assisted suicide drones.
the point is it doesn't matter. if you have something in a backpack, or mounted on a tank, you're not going to project a sphere that can drown out all radio signals for a mile, or however far you can visually recognize a tank.
i think you're in the weeds if you're taking issue with that aspect of it.
you need about 50 yards of protection (probably less)to completely negate FPV. You need more range to stop drones that drop things probably 2-300meters, but those are far outside of effective engagement range of shotguns anyway. that kind of transmission power is available to lightly mobile vehicles or small and relatively cheap ground based systems. and again, you are only approaching it as a single aspect of EWAR, you could also invest in situational awareness systems that detect the transmissions of drones and just give a direction for an approaching drone.
EWAR is more than jamming.
i guess you only read the first half of the post there
https://i.imgur.com/rVmUJe0.png
electronic countermeasures are not going to be sufficient. you need some sort of kinetic kill vehicle.
the reason i say this is i think pretty obvious if you understand what "electronic countermeasures" actually means. what it means is, for example, your controller for the drone is talking to the drone with radio waves.
if i have a big radio transmitter that just sends out loads of radio waves around me, i can overpower your transmitter's signal and the drone won't be able to talk to you.
that's it. that's what jamming does. that's the electronic countermeasure. you make it so noisy that real signals are blocked out.
how big is that sphere of radio jamming? it's not that frickin big. i don't have numbers but i can't imagine it being that big.
here's how you beat it: you have cameras on the drone already. it's not very intense to run a computer vision model on the drone that recognizes objects. you can do this on a smartphone, it's not very intense.
so, you have the drone outside of the jamming sphere, and you're controlling it remotely. on your screen, you can see a tank and there's a little box drawn around it. you click the tank, and the drone locks on. from here on out, the drone is just flying directly to the tank. it gets close enough and contact-detonates. the jamming doesn't matter, because the guidance is running on the drone. so long as you can identify and pick the target outside of the jammed area, it'll fly itself there.
there is no practical electronic countermeasure to that. that will be the next step in drone warfare. computer vision assisted suicide drones.
not trying to dismantle what you're saying here, but yes, for the current implementation of drones, jamming them works. because they are directly controlled by a human.
however, we already have a solution that will defeat those countermeasures, in computer vision. it doesn't seem worthwhile to pursue widespread radio jamming considering how cheap it would be to render the jamming obsolete.
instead it would be wise to work on a hard-kill solution. i don't know what that looks like, maybe switchblade style counter drones or something.
shotguns are a stupid solution. jamming is a temporary solution.
An anti-drone under barrel shotgun sounds like a good idea within a hundred yards.
I hypothesize that a cartridge with the range of a 10 gauge and the burn of a 300.blk will be made for this purpose.
man, if only you knew anything about internal ballistics you wouldn't say moronic shit like comparing the burn rate of fricking shotgun powders to fast rifle powders.
Figure out how to fit miniature air burst EMP nukes into a 12 gauge shot shell and it might actually be useful rather than short under mounted cope stick
>Muh computer vision
Even ignoring processing power, power consumption and other constraints. Lets say the computer vision is flawless and the russians dont scrim their tanks.
FPVs only work because they are cheap
Ukranians burn 2/hr with a 50% success rate
This is fine because its ~$300 per
They are $300 per because chinks mass mfg the components and ukranian children and old women assemble them in their apartments
If you complicate the FPVs with additional computer boards, software and complexity the price skyrockets overnight
Which in turn means fewer FPVs that might be more effective
Fewer FPVs means more target selection
More target selection means less individual FPV strikes
>Even ignoring processing power, power consumption and other constraints.
It makes sense to ignore them since they're negligible. >If you complicate the FPVs with additional computer boards, software and complexity the price skyrockets overnight
It's being done right now with ~$150 worth of components.
Wait... didn't Russia have these? Why not try making good extended range ammo for it and reissuing these? They should be cheap to manufacture; I know the old barrels were cut down from AA guns or whatever the frick, but with modern RU manufacturing can't they just remake these?
Because shotguns are not actually effective against small drones. People always compare them to clay pigeons but the drones fly faster, fly significantly higher, and are not as easy to spot.
go take a video of you shooting clays with a normal shotgun. every time you miss at least one of your squad mates gets turned into a screaming pile of hamburger.
shotguns aren't the tool to defeat drones.
Disciplined and effective EWAR is the only way to do anything meaningful against drones.
Shut up Black person not everyone has EW, shotguns are cheap and easy to mass distribute as a supplement for EW
and weigh down your troops with worthless bullshit.
or you could invest in something that actually works.
Why don't we have thousands of videos of rag heads blowing up Americans troops with drones? is it because Americans had shotguns or because they had disciplined and effective EWAR?
>NOOOO, I won't go to the skeet range, I don't know how to use a shotgun!!!1!1!1
>he thinks you can just mass produce and send every squad EW
>he thinks it's viable for a bunch of slav rats to carry around packs all day long but having a 4-5lb auto loader sitting in the trench is unrealistic
Lel
Jej
Kek
EW
>actually works
>doesn't rely on the skill of the operator beyond setting it up
>can cover a fairly large area and offer protection to a bunch of troops
Shotgun
>doesn't actually work
Lol I love how you morons think thar they will magically accumulate enough EW to make any kind of difference overnight when they already have shotguns in the country that aren't being utilized
Tac14
Correct, which is why issuing them things they understand makes sense
>Tac14
damn that's crazy how it is neither sub 5 pounds nor semi-automatic.
>also I expect people to be hitting high-speed, low visual contrast target under the stress of combat WITH A FRICKING STOCKLESS, PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN
you are a fricking pathetic clown.
Oh yeah? Well yor gay
>Unloaded
Now how much does it weigh loaded
Well my guess is it would depend on what ammo you insert
>4-5lb auto loader sitting in the trench is unrealistic
ok, show me a 4-5lb semi-automatic shotgun that you have shot.
>NOOOOO I KNOW A LOT ABOUT SHOTGUNS, JUST NOT HOW TO SHOOT THEM OR HOW MUCH THEY WEIGH!!1!!1!1!
Americans weren't blown up by drones because they had effective and disciplined EWAR, not because they had shotguns.
>America and the most impoverished c**t in Europe should be compared in any way shape or form
yes, because both of them don't want their soldiers blown up by drones. if you don't want your troops to be blown up by drones you invest in effective and disciplined EWAR.
if you want your troops blown up by drones you do anything except that.
The Ukrainians/Russians have had billions of dollars and years to develope EWAR and they just won't, why do you think that is?
Anyone have an answer for this?
Is it because they think losing their troops.to drones is a nothing burger or is it because this tech is beyond their grasp?
>he thinks you can just mass produce and send every squad EW
So why couldn't you? Do they use hand-wound wire coils?
I redirect you to
Yes, you literally can do all of those things. The US does.
>comparing the USA to the brokest and beggerist country in Europe is even remotely possible
light beam controlled drones will make EWAR useless. a cheap laser will be able to control a drone from miles away, and in turn it will be controlled via cheap landline maybe a mile long that will be unrolled off a wheeled spool by one dude, or maybe even a large work dog.
screen cap this
Only third worlders don't invest in ewar. The writing has been on the wall for communication disruption to be a basic necessity since the advent of the handheld radio.
Communication disruption has been known since spoken word.
Kill a runner and you stop an order.
Jam a signal and you stop an order.
Same end with different means.
Turdies really are just that bad at war.
>Shut up Black person not everyone has EW, shotguns are cheap and easy to mass distribute as a supplement for EW
I mean they did win a contract for this exact reason.
If EW was easy to produce and distribute either the Hohols or the Ziggers would.have done it by now.
you ever shot clays? at any range i've been to 80%+ accuracy isn't unreasonable
How did you miss 20% on a clear range, well rested, under no stress, calling the brightly colored predictable targets with 0 surprise whatsoever while nobody is shooting at you?
because at any good skeet course, where the clays come from varies from station to station and each presents a different challenge. you may not even know where it's coming from
wow Black person it's almost like the fricking drones you're trying to shoot at, only the first time you miss you get turned into bone shards and ground meat
>mistakes skeet for sports clays
huh.
anon they're not pieces of brightly colored clay flying away from you though at relatively low speed though
consider reality and facts next time
>Disciplined and effective EWAR
This is only effective for one more year at most.
You're not hitting a drone with a shotgun. Especially with a short ass barrel like that.
Go bust some clays before you even pretend to know what you're talking about you stupid coon.
Barrel length barely matters, I bust clays with an 18.5" and have no issue with Accounting for the fact that the barrel is so far under the sights may be a pain at first but shotties are rather intuitive weapons, to begin with.
The biggest problem is that most people who get droned are oblivious to the drone's presence.
You won't shoot it if you don't see it.
electronic countermeasures are not going to be sufficient. you need some sort of kinetic kill vehicle.
the reason i say this is i think pretty obvious if you understand what "electronic countermeasures" actually means. what it means is, for example, your controller for the drone is talking to the drone with radio waves.
if i have a big radio transmitter that just sends out loads of radio waves around me, i can overpower your transmitter's signal and the drone won't be able to talk to you.
that's it. that's what jamming does. that's the electronic countermeasure. you make it so noisy that real signals are blocked out.
how big is that sphere of radio jamming? it's not that frickin big. i don't have numbers but i can't imagine it being that big.
here's how you beat it: you have cameras on the drone already. it's not very intense to run a computer vision model on the drone that recognizes objects. you can do this on a smartphone, it's not very intense.
so, you have the drone outside of the jamming sphere, and you're controlling it remotely. on your screen, you can see a tank and there's a little box drawn around it. you click the tank, and the drone locks on. from here on out, the drone is just flying directly to the tank. it gets close enough and contact-detonates. the jamming doesn't matter, because the guidance is running on the drone. so long as you can identify and pick the target outside of the jammed area, it'll fly itself there.
there is no practical electronic countermeasure to that. that will be the next step in drone warfare. computer vision assisted suicide drones.
>i don't have numbers but i can't imagine it being that big.
it'd be useful if you knew anything related to the conversation.
the point is it doesn't matter. if you have something in a backpack, or mounted on a tank, you're not going to project a sphere that can drown out all radio signals for a mile, or however far you can visually recognize a tank.
i think you're in the weeds if you're taking issue with that aspect of it.
you need about 50 yards of protection (probably less)to completely negate FPV. You need more range to stop drones that drop things probably 2-300meters, but those are far outside of effective engagement range of shotguns anyway. that kind of transmission power is available to lightly mobile vehicles or small and relatively cheap ground based systems. and again, you are only approaching it as a single aspect of EWAR, you could also invest in situational awareness systems that detect the transmissions of drones and just give a direction for an approaching drone.
EWAR is more than jamming.
i guess you only read the first half of the post there
not trying to dismantle what you're saying here, but yes, for the current implementation of drones, jamming them works. because they are directly controlled by a human.
however, we already have a solution that will defeat those countermeasures, in computer vision. it doesn't seem worthwhile to pursue widespread radio jamming considering how cheap it would be to render the jamming obsolete.
instead it would be wise to work on a hard-kill solution. i don't know what that looks like, maybe switchblade style counter drones or something.
shotguns are a stupid solution. jamming is a temporary solution.
Blind the drone with a laser pointer.
Just build giant duga antenna relay spanning the entire border like the china wall and point it at russia/ukraine
The answers to suicide drones is simple, reactive body armor.
It wouldn’t even be effective with a combat shotgun, let alone this dummy.
need a proxy fused HE 12ga AAA shell
also need cheap AI SkyWatcher app for phones, maybe with upgraded or plug in camera unit with 360deg coverage.
An anti-drone under barrel shotgun sounds like a good idea within a hundred yards.
I hypothesize that a cartridge with the range of a 10 gauge and the burn of a 300.blk will be made for this purpose.
man, if only you knew anything about internal ballistics you wouldn't say moronic shit like comparing the burn rate of fricking shotgun powders to fast rifle powders.
Figure out how to fit miniature air burst EMP nukes into a 12 gauge shot shell and it might actually be useful rather than short under mounted cope stick
>m203 but birdshot
Shotguns dont work against FPVs
Shotguns work against loitering drones that are already blown the frick out by EW
>Muh computer vision
Even ignoring processing power, power consumption and other constraints. Lets say the computer vision is flawless and the russians dont scrim their tanks.
FPVs only work because they are cheap
Ukranians burn 2/hr with a 50% success rate
This is fine because its ~$300 per
They are $300 per because chinks mass mfg the components and ukranian children and old women assemble them in their apartments
If you complicate the FPVs with additional computer boards, software and complexity the price skyrockets overnight
Which in turn means fewer FPVs that might be more effective
Fewer FPVs means more target selection
More target selection means less individual FPV strikes
>Even ignoring processing power, power consumption and other constraints.
It makes sense to ignore them since they're negligible.
>If you complicate the FPVs with additional computer boards, software and complexity the price skyrockets overnight
It's being done right now with ~$150 worth of components.
>another 'shotguns r anti dron!' thread made by someone who has probably never FIRED a shotgun before
>Another shotguns work post from someone who has never flown a drone
Honestly two virgins arguing about sex
like the last thread, shut the frick up you stupid Black person.
>no Timestamp
Aha
Wait... didn't Russia have these? Why not try making good extended range ammo for it and reissuing these? They should be cheap to manufacture; I know the old barrels were cut down from AA guns or whatever the frick, but with modern RU manufacturing can't they just remake these?
Because shotguns are not actually effective against small drones. People always compare them to clay pigeons but the drones fly faster, fly significantly higher, and are not as easy to spot.