Will never happen I'm afraid, the convenience of single use plastic and the power of the plastic industry just has way too strong a hold over modern society, banning all single use plastic would be an absolute dumpster fire.
Sure, people will be all like "yay, that's what we wanted" when it's first announced but the moment they realize just how much of their lives rely on that shit they'll throw a collective shitfit that will make the Saint Floyd riots look like it actually was a peaceful protest and the government will cave in and undo it.
Lead is less of an environmental concern than plastic, because it's not as pervasive nor can it spread through the biosphere to the same degree. They've recently found plastic microparticles in vivo in human placenta for the first time, which is deeply concerning; the human body has means for dealing with small amounts of heavy metal contaminants without harm, but it's powerless against estrogenic polymers.
He's entirely right. We've been using lead for millennia. It's not good for us and we've know that for about as long. We're still here and we don't have lead in our system as children. You can ban lead in waterfowl hunting in paints, prevent the formations of superfund sites and the problem is basically solved. Recycling lead has gotten to the point where we basically don't need to mine it anymore.
Plastic is in the air you breath and the water you drink. It very hard to recycle and no one cares to try. Whenever you mention the health risks you're called a scitzo.
>we don’t have lead in our system
Stop posting please.
Uncle teas should have flown to whatever shithole your from and bombed your Black person ass back into an age without access to the internet.
while you're right about heavy metals, the body does contain ways to deal with plastics in the body, doesn't stay there forever thankfully. Most of what is ingested, regarding plastics, is excreted out in the feces, macrophages still do their job of uptaking those foreign particles (though they still have trouble processing those) particles small enough to be carried into the bloodstream in vivo experiments are also small enough to be carried out of the body, through urine, provided they are not functionalized, had their surface altered for a purpose, which would make it have more affinity for specific tissues in some cases.
there's the matter of the sheer variety involved here. Even regarding the same materials from the same source you can deal with multiple presentations and shapes, fibers, and fragments of varying lengths and sizes, from micro to nano. Things behave differently on the nanoscale as I mentioned, easier time getting in, but also getting out.
But yeah, it's a serious environmental concern for obvious reasons, while we cannot avoid chronic exposure 100%, it's everywhere, we can work towards making lifestyle changes that limit higher doses of the stuff, particularly regarding things for children; of which there is legislation for regarding additives used in those products, those we know for a fact have metabolic and endocrine-disrupting capabilities and in most times are carcinogenic.
tldr, plastics the way we do them bad, additives bad, don't drive yourself crazy over them
It's really not. Indoor shooting ranges will literally give you brain damage if you work there for long enough. Outdoor is fine-ish.
If you applied OHSA construction lead safety rules to indoor ranges I'd wager 8/10 would be condemned immediately.
some people believe the intense ventilation at gun-range is for the gases from burning powder lmfao
it's mostly for the fine lead particles in the air that are guaranteed to give you horrific neurological disorders
the lead in bullets is a "non-issue" and "mostly-inert" when it's wrapped in a copper jacket and hasn't been fired, the fricking explosion behind it and the hard surface that stops will absolutely send lead everywhere, including teeny tiny bits that end up ON YOU
ever heard of a gunshot residue test, lead and antimony are two of the key things they're testing for
some people believe the intense ventilation at gun-range is for the gases from burning powder lmfao
it's mostly for the fine lead particles in the air that are guaranteed to give you horrific neurological disorders
the lead in bullets is a "non-issue" and "mostly-inert" when it's wrapped in a copper jacket and hasn't been fired, the fricking explosion behind it and the hard surface that stops will absolutely send lead everywhere, including teeny tiny bits that end up ON YOU
ever heard of a gunshot residue test, lead and antimony are two of the key things they're testing for
wash your hands
yep, i go to indoor ranges only when I need to zero an optic and that's it
Seriously? I love the indoor range!
The ceaseless intense noise and concussion!
The RSO in the other room jacking off instead noticing Jimbob who points his XD at himself every time he loads it.
The pigs that come to practice (pic related)
Now I hear you can get a tasty dose of lead while you're there by just BREATHING?
on cue the anti lead shill appears
will you shut the frick up, for the millionth thread in a row youre wrong and also moronic, and you didnt even need lead poisoning to get there
>anti-lead shill
Yes, clearly this is a plot by BIG ANTI-LEAD to prevent us from using our CLEAN wholesome 100 chungus metal. They have taken it out of our drinking water, our paint, our gasoline, even our own children's TOYS.
THEY.
MUST.
BE.
STOPPED.
If I want to inhale lead vapors and turn moronic whenever I shoot my M14 and M1911 and my favorite Black Widow™ Luger (my dear great great great grandpa took it from Himmler himself) then by God I will do so.
Horrifically. It's as bad for them as it is for us, and just works its way up the food chain from the teeny stuff to the fish we eat.
Lead in the ocean is lead in your food.
Don't eat fish? It's present in non-trivial amounts in the blended fish-meal made from by-catch and waste from gutting and packaging. That fish-meal makes it into the fertilizer that grows your food you vegan pussies, and like most heavy metals it ends up in the plants.
Unlike copper, it's not a problem for the majority of plants, but it is for the things that eat them.
Lead in the AIR from burning leaded fuel back in the day (and still in shit countries) leeches into the ground and ends up in whatever shit they farm.
It was one of the major health concerns surrounding the eventual banning of leaded fuel by the majority of the developed world. As you can imagine, breathing that exhaust was also bad.
Lead is less of an environmental concern than plastic, because it's not as pervasive nor can it spread through the biosphere to the same degree. They've recently found plastic microparticles in vivo in human placenta for the first time, which is deeply concerning; the human body has means for dealing with small amounts of heavy metal contaminants without harm, but it's powerless against estrogenic polymers.
https://i.imgur.com/v2vjNcD.jpg
Will never happen I'm afraid, the convenience of single use plastic and the power of the plastic industry just has way too strong a hold over modern society, banning all single use plastic would be an absolute dumpster fire.
Sure, people will be all like "yay, that's what we wanted" when it's first announced but the moment they realize just how much of their lives rely on that shit they'll throw a collective shitfit that will make the Saint Floyd riots look like it actually was a peaceful protest and the government will cave in and undo it.
Yay, more plastic fricking everywhere!
The material TV uses isn't single use plastic, it's both recyclable and made from recycled polymer
The case does actually have to withstand some amount of pressure, otherwise you can't extract the damn thing from the rifle. Also, brass is usually the primary heat extraction method for cooling a firearm down. Plastic isn't going to cut it.
That's not how it works, the polymer case insulates the heat inside the cartridge, preventing it from being transferred to the chamber, the outside of the case is cool to the touch, inside it's smoking hot
That's really interesting.
I could have sworn I heard that thing about brass extracting heat as well but the more I think about it, I think that was in relation to a video on the G11 which is caseless, not polymer case.
No worries, that meme definitely floated around for a long time and yeah it was related to caseless. If you really think about it it never made sense, the heat capacity of a super thin bit of brass is crap and that it feels hot means it conducted heat to the chamber, whereas most of the heat otherwise goes into the much much longer higher capacity barrel or right out the gun. An insulator is a good thing all else being equal. But it also doesn't "feel" wrong at first glance either, like yeah a little heat is indeed obviously going out with a hot brass case. Just not anything significant to the chamber vs the total and what's conducted.
The anons laughing probably would have said the same thing 10 years ago, it's only with the rise of possible actual polymer ammo that the knowledge has spread widely.
>Can't you just 3d print them?
technically yes but not in the sense you're thinking of (FDM). You could do some kind of SLA photoresin or sintered polymer, but that would never be economic w.r.t. regular injection molding even at scale.
The reason for this is that they actually do have to withstand some pressure, hence the steel primer base in OP
The case does actually have to withstand some amount of pressure, otherwise you can't extract the damn thing from the rifle. Also, brass is usually the primary heat extraction method for cooling a firearm down. Plastic isn't going to cut it.
Wrong on both accounts. The heat only winds up in the chamber because the brass case conducts it. If it didn't the propellant gasses would maintain temperature and be used more efficiently.
What exactly did they make the case out of? They called it a composite, but a composite of what? Google says polymer with a steel base.
Seems stupid. You can recycle brass, you can recycle steel. You can reload brass if it is in good condition. Can you recycle polymer? Seems like this is all a bunch of expensive shit that is worse than before. I also don't believe the 30% reduction in weight. That has to be for some corner case bullet, not across the board.
Probably glass filled nylon. That's what it looks like.
Can you offer any details? It's cool that an plastic bullet fired, but it doesn't tell us much.
I'd guess somewhere in the 75gr-125gr range, but what kind of loading? Have you chrono'd one?
If it pulled 350FPS and was putting down pellet-gun energy, that'd be neato, but at 1000FPS that'd be a formidable round obviously.
Any information? Others I've seen playing with the same idea have their best luck with black powder loadings, I'm assuming there's some advantage to the burn characteristics that I'm unaware of. With smokeless, I mostly see smoke-shows.
I haven't seen anyone produce something that'll actually run in an autoloader of any kind though, just revolvers, break-actions, and bolt-actions. Case isn't strong enough to hold up without the chamber supporting it, any blowback action is almost a guaranteed blow-out, though with 3D printed cases it's less "blow-out" and more "disintegration."
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's a .590" 435 grain soft lead slug on 70 grains of Fg goex. It wasn't at supersonic velocities, but 900-1000fps seems like a decent bet based on the recoil. The trick was to make the cases TPU instead of PLA. It's softer, but the chamber walls does all the support for brass anyway (in the snider, at least) so it worked great. It was even kind of a composite case too, I used a .38spl case as the primer. I got total obturation, though and they shot great!
2 years ago
Anonymous
Waaaay bigger than I expected from the photos.
Very good work, thanks for sharing!
What exactly did they make the case out of? They called it a composite, but a composite of what? Google says polymer with a steel base.
Seems stupid. You can recycle brass, you can recycle steel. You can reload brass if it is in good condition. Can you recycle polymer? Seems like this is all a bunch of expensive shit that is worse than before. I also don't believe the 30% reduction in weight. That has to be for some corner case bullet, not across the board.
>I also don't believe the 30% reduction in weight. That has to be for some corner case bullet, not across the board.
It should be the same for most rifle cartridges since the weight of the case represent the largest portion of the overall cartridge weight. I don't know if it will be the same for other cartridges where the bullet represent a larger portion of the case instead, but there will still weight savings because the brass is just that heavy and the composite case will eliminate that extra weight.
So, the heavy side for a 55gr .223 round: 11.6g, the case making up >53% of the weight.
6.2g of brass is about 0.71ml. Let's assume they have to use a LOT more plastic for strength, we'll just pretend the total volume of plastic is 1.5x what they need of brass even though that's a totally bullshit made-up number.
So, 1.06ml of PA6-GF30, that's 1.43g of plastic for the case.
So, heavy 223 round: 11.6g
Theoretical Nylon Cased 223 round: 6.83g
That's a 42% weight reduction versus the brass, well past the 30% reduction goal, and that's assuming they have to use an unrealistically large volume of plastic.
10lbs of 223 in brass is ~390 rds (a little over 400 in the real world)
10lbs of 223 in our theoretical nylon case, >660rds
The math is easy, but I'll give you a tip if you don't want to waste your time: a weight reduction of less than 30% will be the far corner-case, >30% sweeps the board of the vast majority of rifle cartridges.
Pistols are where you're more likely to see bullets as heavy or even heavier than their cases.
45 ACP is an easy example, that's a 230gr/14.9g bullet in a ~5.82g case.
Pistol powder is more diverse, but we can "typically" assume 5-10gr. 0.33-0.66g
The plastic equivalent at 1.5x total volume would be 1.35g.
So a "light" 230gr 45 ACP would be 21g in brass, and 16.5g in plastic, a mere 22% reduction in weight.
if only we had used plastic cases in the middle east for the last 20 years, all the kids born since would be weak troony freaks from all of the microplastic poisoning. BASED!
I'm not sure it should make reloaders seethe at all. As I understand it both TV's and Textrons cases were far, FAR easier to produce when compared to traditional brass cases. (IIRC one of them said the all machines needed to manufacture them could fit inside a single shipping container)
Imagine every boutique ammo manufacturer now has 10x the floor space and the most expensive and complicated part of a bullet is now the simplest and cheapest to make.
I wouldn't be surprised if we even saw the apparatus needed to make custom cases marketed to the average consumer.
plastic casings?
isn't that bad for ballistics?
seriously curious
also doesn't it burn and get stuck inside the barrel or something?
again, I'm just browsing, don't know anything about guns practically speaking
also why stop there, why not
wood casings
cellulose casings
Lol the militaries new round uses harder case materials to contain the pressure and these fools think plastic will take over and catch on. Also op you fricking dipshit, why would people bother trying to make brass when they could melt and mold some plastic cases? You fricking dumbass with your ignorant what if scenarios.
I don't think anyone is planning on replacing any cartridges that don't currently have billions of rounds of brass case with polymer cased ammo. Also, are we sure the poly stuff isn't reloadable?
why would we seethe? FIND ME A RELOADER THAT WOULDN'T JUMP AT THE CHANCE TO BUY NEW SHIT TO RELOAD A CALIBER HE DOESN'T EVEN SHOOT. TRY TO FIND JUST ONE, AND SAYING YOURSELF DON'T COUNT wienerSUCKER. YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT AND ITS IRREFUTABLE.
and? you couldnt find me a reloader that wouldnt jump at this, and hte chance to make his own ammo cases whole cloth for wildcat calibers.
you're seething
no im not. im being an obnoxious prick. theyre not the same thing. I have a raging hard on at the thought of being able to create brand fricking new cases for obsolete milsurp that hasnt has a single fireable round for sale in 30 years. you should do. lets jerk it at the thought.
again my dude. reloaders. tell them you can just press a button and have a perfectly in spec casing for 4.829 lebel fartmouse to make Ian jelly, they will trade off the family homestead.
okay why dont they buy the machinery to make their own brass then?
why dont I have a hydroforming setup?
why don't most reloaders have a precision lathe to make their own barrels and chambers to their specs? or a cnc machine?
some things are always going to be financially out of reach for ordinary people
2 years ago
Anonymous
because brass forming takes up big space. most of them are fricking inept morons and cant do more than pull a lever or push a button.
plastic forming isnt going to need enough heat to burn a house down either.
plastic is the future.
2 years ago
Anonymous
oh okay, you literally just don't know what youre talking about, thats fine then
please look into how the TV cartridge cases are made and what type of polymer they're made of and maybe you can be less moronic in the future
2 years ago
Anonymous
Naw dood I print 300 lapua cases at home on my perfectly safe 3D pronter from China that's only been linked to thousands of house fires from shitty wiring and complete lack of quabbity assuance.
Plastic doesn't require heat to form, the heat you need to work with brass is so much more dangerous because there's a lot of it, lots of heat is bad! Sure a gas stove can tear through fuel faster than my actual forge I use to melt brass and aluminum, but it's safe because it's not as hot, therefor been safening it.
Injection molding at home is future! You'll see. First, desktop CNC machines will inexplicably become as cheap as 3D printers, because that will totally happen. At that point, making molds for injection molding becomes no big deal at all! Why even bother with 3D printing at that point. I'll just injection mold my own mini-figs and Funkopops, it's not even hard.
because brass forming takes up big space. most of them are fricking inept morons and cant do more than pull a lever or push a button.
plastic forming isnt going to need enough heat to burn a house down either.
plastic is the future.
>moronic homosexual
2 years ago
Anonymous
this, but unironically
2 years ago
Anonymous
Naw dood I print 300 lapua cases at home on my perfectly safe 3D pronter from China that's only been linked to thousands of house fires from shitty wiring and complete lack of quabbity assuance.
Plastic doesn't require heat to form, the heat you need to work with brass is so much more dangerous because there's a lot of it, lots of heat is bad! Sure a gas stove can tear through fuel faster than my actual forge I use to melt brass and aluminum, but it's safe because it's not as hot, therefor been safening it.
Injection molding at home is future! You'll see. First, desktop CNC machines will inexplicably become as cheap as 3D printers, because that will totally happen. At that point, making molds for injection molding becomes no big deal at all! Why even bother with 3D printing at that point. I'll just injection mold my own mini-figs and Funkopops, it's not even hard.
[...] >moronic homosexual
samegay
2 years ago
Anonymous
>NOOOO TWO PEOPLE CALLED ME A moron IT MUST BE A SAMEgay NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2 years ago
Anonymous
Pretty confident that you're just that moronic, inexperienced anon.
I looked into making casings from scratch using washers and thin steel tubing. I would be looking at ~60c per round (not including equipment costs) which includes .243 bullets, powder, and primers and would get me something on par with .308 for case capacity but would be for propriety chambers that I would also have to make. If thread is still alive tomorrow I'll post more info.
If/when polymer case ammo becomes widely accepted I can see it becoming even cheaper than steel (with a normal market)
The polymer part isn't even a full case, it's literally just a tube with a slight reduction in diameter on one side. This means that unlike a traditional case with only one opening polymer case halves could be injection molded by the millions.
Meanwhile because the steel heads don't have to be drawn through a set of dies like traditional cases they too can be stamped out by the millions. Of course primers still remain the big bottleneck.
The biggest advantage I can see for polymer case ammo is that many common calibers share the same rim. 7.62 Tokarev, 7.63 Mauser and 9mm Para for example. Lots of military cases have many variants as well.
And considering polymer is much easier to work with than brass, I can see a big revival of custom wildcat cartridges.
I for one, am excited to see what the future will hold.
This is probably the future for homemade ammunition, as drawing plastic is much easier than drawing brass. Nobody has put any effort into it because even now brass cases are cheap and available.
>seethe
Use words you knew before 2022, copy-paste thinker.
???
Assmad newbie trying to prove he's not a newbie. Best ignored
Plastic is bad for the environment and our health.We need to ban single use plastic not guns.
Will never happen I'm afraid, the convenience of single use plastic and the power of the plastic industry just has way too strong a hold over modern society, banning all single use plastic would be an absolute dumpster fire.
Sure, people will be all like "yay, that's what we wanted" when it's first announced but the moment they realize just how much of their lives rely on that shit they'll throw a collective shitfit that will make the Saint Floyd riots look like it actually was a peaceful protest and the government will cave in and undo it.
>banning all single use plastic would be an absolute dumpster fire
yeah because that shit is poisonous and we really should burn it all
This isn't a valid concern until the overwhelming use of lead in both bullets and primers is resolved.
Lead is less of an environmental concern than plastic, because it's not as pervasive nor can it spread through the biosphere to the same degree. They've recently found plastic microparticles in vivo in human placenta for the first time, which is deeply concerning; the human body has means for dealing with small amounts of heavy metal contaminants without harm, but it's powerless against estrogenic polymers.
You are actually fricking moronic.
He's entirely right. We've been using lead for millennia. It's not good for us and we've know that for about as long. We're still here and we don't have lead in our system as children. You can ban lead in waterfowl hunting in paints, prevent the formations of superfund sites and the problem is basically solved. Recycling lead has gotten to the point where we basically don't need to mine it anymore.
Plastic is in the air you breath and the water you drink. It very hard to recycle and no one cares to try. Whenever you mention the health risks you're called a scitzo.
Take your meds
schizo, plastic has been proven to be perfectly safe
No it’s fricking not
>he doesn't know about BPA
>he doesn't know about phthalates
keep eating your plastic
>plastic bad lead is good
Go back Black person
>we don’t have lead in our system
Stop posting please.
Uncle teas should have flown to whatever shithole your from and bombed your Black person ass back into an age without access to the internet.
truth
while you're right about heavy metals, the body does contain ways to deal with plastics in the body, doesn't stay there forever thankfully. Most of what is ingested, regarding plastics, is excreted out in the feces, macrophages still do their job of uptaking those foreign particles (though they still have trouble processing those) particles small enough to be carried into the bloodstream in vivo experiments are also small enough to be carried out of the body, through urine, provided they are not functionalized, had their surface altered for a purpose, which would make it have more affinity for specific tissues in some cases.
there's the matter of the sheer variety involved here. Even regarding the same materials from the same source you can deal with multiple presentations and shapes, fibers, and fragments of varying lengths and sizes, from micro to nano. Things behave differently on the nanoscale as I mentioned, easier time getting in, but also getting out.
But yeah, it's a serious environmental concern for obvious reasons, while we cannot avoid chronic exposure 100%, it's everywhere, we can work towards making lifestyle changes that limit higher doses of the stuff, particularly regarding things for children; of which there is legislation for regarding additives used in those products, those we know for a fact have metabolic and endocrine-disrupting capabilities and in most times are carcinogenic.
tldr, plastics the way we do them bad, additives bad, don't drive yourself crazy over them
All ammo I have as clearly marked as lead free primers.
Lead from bullets is basically a non issue as its mostly inert unless messed with
It's really not. Indoor shooting ranges will literally give you brain damage if you work there for long enough. Outdoor is fine-ish.
If you applied OHSA construction lead safety rules to indoor ranges I'd wager 8/10 would be condemned immediately.
some people believe the intense ventilation at gun-range is for the gases from burning powder lmfao
it's mostly for the fine lead particles in the air that are guaranteed to give you horrific neurological disorders
the lead in bullets is a "non-issue" and "mostly-inert" when it's wrapped in a copper jacket and hasn't been fired, the fricking explosion behind it and the hard surface that stops will absolutely send lead everywhere, including teeny tiny bits that end up ON YOU
ever heard of a gunshot residue test, lead and antimony are two of the key things they're testing for
wash your hands
yep, i go to indoor ranges only when I need to zero an optic and that's it
Seriously? I love the indoor range!
The ceaseless intense noise and concussion!
The RSO in the other room jacking off instead noticing Jimbob who points his XD at himself every time he loads it.
The pigs that come to practice (pic related)
Now I hear you can get a tasty dose of lead while you're there by just BREATHING?
How could anyone avoid the indoor range?
on cue the anti lead shill appears
will you shut the frick up, for the millionth thread in a row youre wrong and also moronic, and you didnt even need lead poisoning to get there
>anti-lead shill
Yes, clearly this is a plot by BIG ANTI-LEAD to prevent us from using our CLEAN wholesome 100 chungus metal. They have taken it out of our drinking water, our paint, our gasoline, even our own children's TOYS.
THEY.
MUST.
BE.
STOPPED.
If I want to inhale lead vapors and turn moronic whenever I shoot my M14 and M1911 and my favorite Black Widow™ Luger (my dear great great great grandpa took it from Himmler himself) then by God I will do so.
Copper fricks with trees and plants way worse than lead.
how strong is Lead vs aquatic life ?
Horrifically. It's as bad for them as it is for us, and just works its way up the food chain from the teeny stuff to the fish we eat.
Lead in the ocean is lead in your food.
Don't eat fish? It's present in non-trivial amounts in the blended fish-meal made from by-catch and waste from gutting and packaging. That fish-meal makes it into the fertilizer that grows your food you vegan pussies, and like most heavy metals it ends up in the plants.
Unlike copper, it's not a problem for the majority of plants, but it is for the things that eat them.
Lead in the AIR from burning leaded fuel back in the day (and still in shit countries) leeches into the ground and ends up in whatever shit they farm.
It was one of the major health concerns surrounding the eventual banning of leaded fuel by the majority of the developed world. As you can imagine, breathing that exhaust was also bad.
take the macro plastic pill
The material TV uses isn't single use plastic, it's both recyclable and made from recycled polymer
>overheats your gun
>doesn't withstand kerosene contac
How does it overheat your gun?
I thought it was supposed to run cooler the metal cased cartridges
>I thought it was supposed to run cooler
it does, that anon is just a fricking idiot
Heh?
Can't you just 3d print them?
It is not as if the case is designed to withstand any pressure from the explosion. It is just there to hold the powder.
The case does actually have to withstand some amount of pressure, otherwise you can't extract the damn thing from the rifle. Also, brass is usually the primary heat extraction method for cooling a firearm down. Plastic isn't going to cut it.
That's not how it works, the polymer case insulates the heat inside the cartridge, preventing it from being transferred to the chamber, the outside of the case is cool to the touch, inside it's smoking hot
That's really interesting.
I could have sworn I heard that thing about brass extracting heat as well but the more I think about it, I think that was in relation to a video on the G11 which is caseless, not polymer case.
No worries, that meme definitely floated around for a long time and yeah it was related to caseless. If you really think about it it never made sense, the heat capacity of a super thin bit of brass is crap and that it feels hot means it conducted heat to the chamber, whereas most of the heat otherwise goes into the much much longer higher capacity barrel or right out the gun. An insulator is a good thing all else being equal. But it also doesn't "feel" wrong at first glance either, like yeah a little heat is indeed obviously going out with a hot brass case. Just not anything significant to the chamber vs the total and what's conducted.
The anons laughing probably would have said the same thing 10 years ago, it's only with the rise of possible actual polymer ammo that the knowledge has spread widely.
>Also, brass is usually the primary heat extraction method for cooling a firearm down.
lmao
>brass is usually the primary heat extraction method for cooling a firearm down
that's bubba-tier bullshit.
>Can't you just 3d print them?
technically yes but not in the sense you're thinking of (FDM). You could do some kind of SLA photoresin or sintered polymer, but that would never be economic w.r.t. regular injection molding even at scale.
The reason for this is that they actually do have to withstand some pressure, hence the steel primer base in OP
Sort of.
Wrong on both accounts. The heat only winds up in the chamber because the brass case conducts it. If it didn't the propellant gasses would maintain temperature and be used more efficiently.
Probably glass filled nylon. That's what it looks like.
Your fingers are so short.
He can 3D print some extensions.
Preferably not in blue.
How many times are you going to post this picture? What is the actual context behind this even and does it even fricking work?
>Hello I'm a newbie and now I'm mad I don't understand another thing
Of course it works, dipshit, why wouldn't it?
You’ve literally posted that same fricking image dozens of times and I’ve never seen you post the actual results of you firing it
They've definitely fired one before, look how short their fingers are.
Ok.
Can you offer any details? It's cool that an plastic bullet fired, but it doesn't tell us much.
I'd guess somewhere in the 75gr-125gr range, but what kind of loading? Have you chrono'd one?
If it pulled 350FPS and was putting down pellet-gun energy, that'd be neato, but at 1000FPS that'd be a formidable round obviously.
Any information? Others I've seen playing with the same idea have their best luck with black powder loadings, I'm assuming there's some advantage to the burn characteristics that I'm unaware of. With smokeless, I mostly see smoke-shows.
I haven't seen anyone produce something that'll actually run in an autoloader of any kind though, just revolvers, break-actions, and bolt-actions. Case isn't strong enough to hold up without the chamber supporting it, any blowback action is almost a guaranteed blow-out, though with 3D printed cases it's less "blow-out" and more "disintegration."
It's a .590" 435 grain soft lead slug on 70 grains of Fg goex. It wasn't at supersonic velocities, but 900-1000fps seems like a decent bet based on the recoil. The trick was to make the cases TPU instead of PLA. It's softer, but the chamber walls does all the support for brass anyway (in the snider, at least) so it worked great. It was even kind of a composite case too, I used a .38spl case as the primer. I got total obturation, though and they shot great!
Waaaay bigger than I expected from the photos.
Very good work, thanks for sharing!
You are welcome, it was a fun project.
back in my day we could recycle ammo
What exactly did they make the case out of? They called it a composite, but a composite of what? Google says polymer with a steel base.
Seems stupid. You can recycle brass, you can recycle steel. You can reload brass if it is in good condition. Can you recycle polymer? Seems like this is all a bunch of expensive shit that is worse than before. I also don't believe the 30% reduction in weight. That has to be for some corner case bullet, not across the board.
>I also don't believe the 30% reduction in weight. That has to be for some corner case bullet, not across the board.
It should be the same for most rifle cartridges since the weight of the case represent the largest portion of the overall cartridge weight. I don't know if it will be the same for other cartridges where the bullet represent a larger portion of the case instead, but there will still weight savings because the brass is just that heavy and the composite case will eliminate that extra weight.
It's really not a hard thing to wrap your head around.
.223 boolet: ~3.6g (55gr)
.223 brass: ~6.2g
Hogdon CFE 223 powder: ~1.8g (27.8gr)
So, the heavy side for a 55gr .223 round: 11.6g, the case making up >53% of the weight.
6.2g of brass is about 0.71ml. Let's assume they have to use a LOT more plastic for strength, we'll just pretend the total volume of plastic is 1.5x what they need of brass even though that's a totally bullshit made-up number.
So, 1.06ml of PA6-GF30, that's 1.43g of plastic for the case.
So, heavy 223 round: 11.6g
Theoretical Nylon Cased 223 round: 6.83g
That's a 42% weight reduction versus the brass, well past the 30% reduction goal, and that's assuming they have to use an unrealistically large volume of plastic.
10lbs of 223 in brass is ~390 rds (a little over 400 in the real world)
10lbs of 223 in our theoretical nylon case, >660rds
The math is easy, but I'll give you a tip if you don't want to waste your time: a weight reduction of less than 30% will be the far corner-case, >30% sweeps the board of the vast majority of rifle cartridges.
Pistols are where you're more likely to see bullets as heavy or even heavier than their cases.
45 ACP is an easy example, that's a 230gr/14.9g bullet in a ~5.82g case.
Pistol powder is more diverse, but we can "typically" assume 5-10gr. 0.33-0.66g
The plastic equivalent at 1.5x total volume would be 1.35g.
So a "light" 230gr 45 ACP would be 21g in brass, and 16.5g in plastic, a mere 22% reduction in weight.
if only we had used plastic cases in the middle east for the last 20 years, all the kids born since would be weak troony freaks from all of the microplastic poisoning. BASED!
what about shotgun shells?
I'm not sure it should make reloaders seethe at all. As I understand it both TV's and Textrons cases were far, FAR easier to produce when compared to traditional brass cases. (IIRC one of them said the all machines needed to manufacture them could fit inside a single shipping container)
Imagine every boutique ammo manufacturer now has 10x the floor space and the most expensive and complicated part of a bullet is now the simplest and cheapest to make.
I wouldn't be surprised if we even saw the apparatus needed to make custom cases marketed to the average consumer.
one of my favorite webms of all time. Just the vibe of nukes going off as you fly your 19050s bomber deep into the soviet union to end the planet
plastic casings?
isn't that bad for ballistics?
seriously curious
also doesn't it burn and get stuck inside the barrel or something?
again, I'm just browsing, don't know anything about guns practically speaking
also why stop there, why not
wood casings
cellulose casings
ceramic casings?
Do shotgun shells melt and get stuck inside guns?
12gs dont operate in mgs and rapid firing rifles
>he doesn't have an AK sear in his Saiga
Lol the militaries new round uses harder case materials to contain the pressure and these fools think plastic will take over and catch on. Also op you fricking dipshit, why would people bother trying to make brass when they could melt and mold some plastic cases? You fricking dumbass with your ignorant what if scenarios.
Polymer handles the pressure better than brass does.
I don't think anyone is planning on replacing any cartridges that don't currently have billions of rounds of brass case with polymer cased ammo. Also, are we sure the poly stuff isn't reloadable?
if the rounds were really cheap then i wouldnt need to reload
Reloaders have spent the past two years "seething" about primer availability. They don't have time to worry about your bullshit OP.
>Does this make reloaders seethe hard
yes.
ALSO I WILL BUY IT IN BULK JUST TO GET THE BRASS israeliteS TO STFU
>hey bud are you gonna use that bra-
HHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
GET FRICKED
why would we seethe? FIND ME A RELOADER THAT WOULDN'T JUMP AT THE CHANCE TO BUY NEW SHIT TO RELOAD A CALIBER HE DOESN'T EVEN SHOOT. TRY TO FIND JUST ONE, AND SAYING YOURSELF DON'T COUNT wienerSUCKER. YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT AND ITS IRREFUTABLE.
You've missed the point. You can't reload plastic safely.
and? you couldnt find me a reloader that wouldnt jump at this, and hte chance to make his own ammo cases whole cloth for wildcat calibers.
no im not. im being an obnoxious prick. theyre not the same thing. I have a raging hard on at the thought of being able to create brand fricking new cases for obsolete milsurp that hasnt has a single fireable round for sale in 30 years. you should do. lets jerk it at the thought.
its not gonna be any easier for the non industrial hobbiest to make these plastic cases than it is to make brass cases.
again my dude. reloaders. tell them you can just press a button and have a perfectly in spec casing for 4.829 lebel fartmouse to make Ian jelly, they will trade off the family homestead.
okay why dont they buy the machinery to make their own brass then?
why dont I have a hydroforming setup?
why don't most reloaders have a precision lathe to make their own barrels and chambers to their specs? or a cnc machine?
some things are always going to be financially out of reach for ordinary people
because brass forming takes up big space. most of them are fricking inept morons and cant do more than pull a lever or push a button.
plastic forming isnt going to need enough heat to burn a house down either.
plastic is the future.
oh okay, you literally just don't know what youre talking about, thats fine then
please look into how the TV cartridge cases are made and what type of polymer they're made of and maybe you can be less moronic in the future
Naw dood I print 300 lapua cases at home on my perfectly safe 3D pronter from China that's only been linked to thousands of house fires from shitty wiring and complete lack of quabbity assuance.
Plastic doesn't require heat to form, the heat you need to work with brass is so much more dangerous because there's a lot of it, lots of heat is bad! Sure a gas stove can tear through fuel faster than my actual forge I use to melt brass and aluminum, but it's safe because it's not as hot, therefor been safening it.
Injection molding at home is future! You'll see. First, desktop CNC machines will inexplicably become as cheap as 3D printers, because that will totally happen. At that point, making molds for injection molding becomes no big deal at all! Why even bother with 3D printing at that point. I'll just injection mold my own mini-figs and Funkopops, it's not even hard.
>moronic homosexual
this, but unironically
samegay
>NOOOO TWO PEOPLE CALLED ME A moron IT MUST BE A SAMEgay NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Pretty confident that you're just that moronic, inexperienced anon.
>You can't reload plastic safely.
Source?
you're seething
Yay, more plastic fricking everywhere!
I looked into making casings from scratch using washers and thin steel tubing. I would be looking at ~60c per round (not including equipment costs) which includes .243 bullets, powder, and primers and would get me something on par with .308 for case capacity but would be for propriety chambers that I would also have to make. If thread is still alive tomorrow I'll post more info.
If/when polymer case ammo becomes widely accepted I can see it becoming even cheaper than steel (with a normal market)
The polymer part isn't even a full case, it's literally just a tube with a slight reduction in diameter on one side. This means that unlike a traditional case with only one opening polymer case halves could be injection molded by the millions.
Meanwhile because the steel heads don't have to be drawn through a set of dies like traditional cases they too can be stamped out by the millions. Of course primers still remain the big bottleneck.
The biggest advantage I can see for polymer case ammo is that many common calibers share the same rim. 7.62 Tokarev, 7.63 Mauser and 9mm Para for example. Lots of military cases have many variants as well.
And considering polymer is much easier to work with than brass, I can see a big revival of custom wildcat cartridges.
I for one, am excited to see what the future will hold.
This is probably the future for homemade ammunition, as drawing plastic is much easier than drawing brass. Nobody has put any effort into it because even now brass cases are cheap and available.