Does such an product exist?
This is European.
If i purchase an 4 socket wall mounted can i put 4 individual phases???
I dont know.
Thank you!
Does such an product exist?
This is European.
If i purchase an 4 socket wall mounted can i put 4 individual phases???
I dont know.
Thank you!
if you have to ask you cant afford it
Well the colors and connections are really wrong in your picture, but in principle, yes, that is definitely possible and would work. It could be made for maybe 30 euros or so.
What about this.
I understood my mistake.
They all connect to one N
Yeah that should be fine. You'll probably have to buy 3 individual 220V sockets to wire them up to an individual phase. Better yet you could probably ask the shop/an electrician to make the assembly for you, it'd probably come out safer.
this makes no sense to build.
its not like you can use 3x16A because then your Neutral would have to carry 48A
you could just put a CEE plug on a regular power strip and call it a day. (only use one phase)
you can use the phases individually for devices that do not need a neutral, like electric motors or welders.
but then you need to use CEE sockets without a N connection since N is not protected by a breaker.
What if i use a really big cable?
Theyre used for big water boilers and theyre all in the same place
If your entire circuit is rated for handling 50A then you can use 50A, but everything needs to be rated that all the way from the first mains connection
IF you have a 16A cee socket, the wire from the breaker to the socket is rated for 16A so you can plug in one consumer with 16A*230V 3680W
if you plug a 16A water heater to every phase the single N has to carry 48A which it is not rated for.
you could use a 3 phase motor, or a welder that does not need a N between all 3 phases then you could draw 16*400*srt3 = 11085W
maybe you could use a boiler which gets hooked up to all 3 phases instead of 3 boilers on every phase.
The boilers themselves can run on 1 Phase individually but powering 3 at once recquires 3 phase 16A
Im just trying to make it compact and instead of having 3 cables with 1 phase i have 1 big cable running more
>if you plug a 16A water heater to every phase the single N has to carry 48A which it is not rated for.
That does not sound correct. Even if they are identical, single phase appliances, the unbalanced current wouldn't be more than a single appliance.
>its not like you can use 3x16A because then your Neutral would have to carry 48A
>drooling onions brain with extension lead plugged into itself.jpg
did you just assume all 3 of my loads are impedance matched?
do the calcs that show what you think is correct and then come back and we can talk about it
Too much work. Thankfully someone else has already done them at https://wiraelectrical.com/unbalanced-three-phase-systems/.
These are the results you should talk about.
three currents on three legs that would trip any of ops phase breakers.
zero calculation of current through neutral.
if you don't understand what you are talking about then stfu.
And you know how you find current through neutral? You add them you stupid moron. Those currents don't add up to zero.
if those are your three phase peak currents the peak through the neutral is 76A, about half of the largest phase current
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=Max%2856.78*sin%28x%29+%2B+24.46*sin%28x%2B%28135%2F360%29%29+-+155*sin%28x%29%29
The largest phase current in that set is very clearly 56.78 amps
thats not how it works
when all three live wires are loaded equally
the current on the neutral wire is zero.
the currents cancel each other out.
its a day to learn how to install receptacles
it takes a lot longer to understand what you are actually doing
Perhaps that's why OP is asking if it can be done and if so how to do it.
That's only for motors.
Because op wants 3 separate heating elements, the neutral would burn out
The currents in the neutral wire cancel each other out, when all three loads are equal.
The only way to burn a neutral wire is to have big capacitve or inductive loads, which change the timing of current.
And what if I were feeling particularly devilish? What if I plugged a 50 mF capactor directly into one leg of my power strip? What then?
purely capacitive? nothing.
show me your cap, we can work out its impedance, then we can do the calcs.
>purely capactive
>nothing
it's like you don't even know what reactive power is. like actually don't know what it is other than 'it's imaginary.'
no i get it, but i know that three phase power exists in the world and the people use it regularly as three single phase legs without issue
electricians when designing circuits are allowed to use discrimination to work out a realistic load instead of over designing for some practically impossible use case that will never occur.
thats why i'm asking you to show me a real world example.
you tell me a capacitance will cause an issue, but lag is found by impedance, not just capacitance.
so put up some real numbers or shut up.
As the other anons are saying, I'm pretty sure the currents cancel out. Worst case scenario you've got 16A on one socket and nothing on the others. If you try to pull 16A from one socket and 16A from another, the result is like 6A or 12A or whatever on the neutral going back to the breaker box.
That said, that assumes power factor is equal. If you have one outlet pulling 16A resistively, one outlet pulling 16A with an inductive load, and another pulling 16A with a capacitive load, you may well find the current in neutral to be higher than 16A. Still not as bad as 48A though.
But seriously though, if you're combining loads like that you should put the capacitive loads with the inductive loads on the same phase. You'll never come across a situation where you see more than maybe 20A on that neutral line, unless you do so deliberately.
Also for you anons trying to define it mathematically, use LTspice instead of wolfram or whatever.
That's what americans do with their split-phase 220V outlets. For ovens and such. Neutral and live can effectively be swapped with no consequence on 99.9% of appliances anyhow, not actually having a neutral and having two lives instead is a non-issue, and is arguably better for noise reasons since it's a differential pair.
>an universal
Do you pronounce it "ooniversal"?
Wat?
We actually do, btw
>use LTspice instead of wolfram or whatever.
how about you duck my dick
this 'bit' is really starting to wear thin anon
but op wants to make a power strip, now what if OPs sister comes and plugs one heater out and plugs something else in it.
"Europe" doesn't use "live" and "neutral" lines, only the UK does. Both lines are connected arbitrarily and should be considered live. You can easily verify that by looking at a Schucko plug, which can be plugged either way around.
So a continental European appliance can work on US 240, frequency difference aside?
most devices dont care about the frequency.
anything with an AC motor will spin faster at 60hz, but beyond that it does not matter. Older TVs could handle both because Japan uses 50hz and 60hz.
yes euro outlets are basically US dryer outlets.
the range is from 220V to 250V, depending on the country.
I wonder, because would an outlet with the two lines of 120 creating 220, just a ground, an no neutral work fine with these Euro appliances?
Thats how it was done in pre war housing.
But its not safe for reasons.
>if the neutral wire gets disconnected you have 230v at the metall case of the device.
Its against the code to build a system like this in 1973 in germany.
>if the neutral wire gets disconnected you have 230v at the metall case of the device.
If the device has a metal case, the case should be grounded, not tied to neutral. If the device does not have a metal case, then it doesn't need a ground.
>inb4 germans don't differentiate between ground and neutral
>inb4 Germans don't differentiate between ground and neutral
before 1973 our code makers didn't.
when the US used two wires and underground sockets for metal appliances,
Germans used two wires and grounded sockets, inside the socket neutral and earth pin were bridged. (this was called a zeroed socket.)
it prevented electric shock in case of a body fault inside a device. it did cause electric shock if the PEN broke somewhere.
Oh that's kinda neat. I still prefer the modern method that allows for RCDs tripping when live leaks down ground though.
the problem with the PEN is if it breaks then every earthed body behind the fault is life.
voltage is connected through t the consumers to the N and N is bridged with PE,
also in modern times with all the switch power supply's it can cause all sorts of bugs in IT-devices, because current flows in the earth wire.
>our code makers didn't
Just the BRD or the GDR too?
Don't be a revisionist.
both.
BRD banned "zeroing" in 1973.
GDR allowed until 1999
https://katalog.ub.uni-weimar.de/tgl/TGL_200-0602-03_09-1982.pdf
Most devices don't even care about tension; 90–240 volt input range is common.
in the past, before everything had a switched mode power supply, both frequency and voltage were important to check.
still plenty of devices that are not universal, usually anything high current or with a heater.
microwave oven usually transforms line voltage to hv so that will care. tea kettle, toaster, shower are pretty bad examples because you don't travel with them. but hairdriers are a typical travel item.
What's an universal plug?
USB ports in outlet are a meme, don't do this
There's countless such sockets, if it was such a bad idea, we'd know by now.
Almost. European power is 400v 3 phase (400v between any 2 phases, 230v between any phase and neutral), so assuming you have all 5 wires (3 phases, neutral, ground), you can have 3 230v sockets each with a phase and neutral, not 4.
These are called something along the lines of 'CEE Distribution box/board' and come with breakers installed to prevent you from melting your 230v cables. You'll often find that they have three 230v sockets with phase/neutral each, or four 230v sockets where two have a phase each and two share the remaining phase.
They can be pretty cheap, usually €110 or less.
Don't try to make it yourself unless you're a trained electrician. Unless you enjoy potential burning your house down, I'm not your boss, you do you.
>trained electrician.
to correctly connect 5 color coded wires? jesus fricking christ on a bicycle made from bananas.... people have no ability to do anything anymore... this is why velcro closing shoes were invented I guess
I have a friend in Moscow who can make this for you
he is right grampa, but I guess its true we just let idiots die back then
He's right, bro. You need 5 years of schooling and working as an apprentice to know how to tighten a screw and identify colors.
Lol yeh it actually does. I've seen the work people like you produce, it's atrocious.
Anon are you trying to tell me this wasn't done by someone with proper electrical experience?
If you cant even figure out 3 phase colour coordination in Europe, you are not made to connect anything. Hire an electrician you absolute goddamn moron.
Even first day apprentice electricians in my sector know more than you.
its just people not knowing the dangers of electricity because they are never confronted with it and / or cannot fathom what they can't see
most dont understand about the dangers of electric current in excess of >50mA flowing through their body
pretty sure shop class doesnt teach the dangers of electricity these days other than its dangerous, don't touch probably to prevent curiosity accidents and later in school noone picks up on that knowledge gap when people are "wise" enough to not frick around with electricity
not even talking about fire prevention and so on
>clearly made of chicken didn't even bother to use correct amount of fingers and the ones that are there are too short
Clearly click bait.
Meds schizo
This has to be the moronestest question ever, and the replies don't fall behind it.
The answer is you could even connect 40 sockets, you need to understand the concept of "phase" before realizing how stupid that question is: no matter how many sockets you put there, you'll still only have ONE phase, not even two; domestic lines being *monophasic* n sheit...
since he posted a CEE plug i doubt he only has one phase.
in Germany most houses get supplied with 3phase
Not in Portugal; you can get triphasic, but everywhere is mono.
>Let me just connect your neighbours using your personal roof.
Why did they do this?
It might be simpler to buy/make a connector with a 3 phase plug and three 1 phase sockets on separate cables.
Your idea will also work, assuming you don't connect it anything like in the picture.
Average Finnish electrician
Assuming you want to power an engine/generator, forget it. Just hire an electrician, they should install new 5-pole wiring with fitting socket and breaker for you. Groups of sockets like in your pic share a single phase while the other two are used somewhere else. You can't power a bigger machine with that because there's no phase shift.
homie what?