Does a giant capital spaceship with maxxed out armor and shield make tactical sense???
Does a giant capital spaceship with maxxed out armor and shield make tactical sense???
Does a giant capital spaceship with maxxed out armor and shield make tactical sense???
Only if it exists in a time when defence>offence
the reasons why battleships fell out of favour irl basically boil down to that defensive measures have fallen far short of offensive capabilities. The thickest, strongest, best-designed armour we can come up with still don't protect ships against weapons a tiny fraction of their cost. Since apparently in Star Wars you can just launch rocks at great speed and pierce through any capital ship destroying it instantly, I would wager these massive ships are not worth it. But it's hypothetically possible for it to make sense in a setting where defence has caught up to or surpasses offence.
Wow, SW is felled by one of science fictions oldest tropes.
the trope isn't supposed to exist in starwars outside of scifi bs like the suncrusher and its quantum armor.
disney retardation is not canon and never will be.
god the suncrusher was such a dumb idea. Though it did play a hand in starting the "Wedge must suffer" trope. We also got Dalaa out of it. Who apparently also had to suffer.
dunno, I thought it was kind of funny how it was technically quite vulnerable to being hit in the right spots despite its armor.
the weapons and engines were vulnerable.
it was a funny maguffin who's durability made it something to build better plot points around, and Kype made sure to erase it afterwards so it can't be recreated.
And yes, we got Dalaa out of it, which was by far the best character produced from that place.
>We also got Dalaa out of it
Her and Isard I think were the ones to give me my fetish for evil crazy bitches.
gay.
moron.
Reminder that the New Republic was such a mismanaged shitshow, Daala, a fucking IMPERIAL admrial ended up being the chancellor.
reminder that the bothans colluded with the yuuzhan vong to defeat their political rivals in the senate
>b*thans
How has nobody genocided these furry little cunts already?
I hate that character so much. Absolute loathing. I celebrated every time the protagonists defeated his schemes.
Sheev gave it a shot but stopped short of Total Bothan Death. Though in the Hand of Thrawn books just the knowledge that Bothans were involved in helping carry out a xenocide was enough pretense for much of the galaxy to start openly calling for it.
I blame the bothans and the emperor's hand.
Because Daala was actually one of the few competent enough to rise to the task. Which isn't saying much since the new Republic was as effective as a bunch of headless chickens running around
Daala wasn't competent. She was an idiot that got by due to writers giving everyone around her a sudden case of the retards. At best you could say that she was good at the organization destroying backstab game of Imperial politics, but that just makes her queen of the paste eaters. She's the Holdo of the EU.
>Her and Isard I think were the ones to give me my fetish for evil crazy bitches
This is me to a T. Throw in Asajj Ventress and Darth Talon for good measure. Mara Jade for about half of the Thrawn trilogy counts. Hell you even have Durga the Hutt for those into xeno-BBW. The Star Wars universe is a gold mine for hot evil women, its too bad Disney has to insist on every female being a flawless hero so they all get sent down the trash compactor.
I mean at least Disney canon points out the retardation of the Empire by investing VAST resources into giant mega projects rather than improve the actual military core.
In the comics the admiral choked by Darth Vader in Episode 4 complaints that for the cost of the Death Star they could have built hundreds of super star destroyers, which are each equally able to lay waste to a rebelling world by orbital bombardment alone.
>Disney canon points out the retardation of the Empire by investing VAST resources into giant mega projects
anon...
Yeah one thing you have to keep in mind though is that ships need size and mass for endurance against their own environment, which is partially why you get "destroyers" today that are as big as pre-dreadnought battleships. While memes like the Death Star are obviously impractical, star destroyers themselves are fine for their job as mobile military bases, where one SD has the room to store enough armaments to glass the surface of a solar system. Hence their name.
Ah the good ol base delta zero
>the reasons why battleships fell out of favour irl basically boil down to that defensive measures have fallen far short of offensive capabilities
While I largely agree with you on the subject of space ships, thats simply not the case. Battleships have always been primarily large gun platforms. Their sole purpose ultimately boils down to bringing large guns to bear against the enemy. The armor merely serves to aid with this.
When aircraft dropped bombs made naval gunnery redundant and missiles made it irrelevant, battleships ceased to have any practical application.
>The armor merely serves to aid with this
Uh uh, no
Armour is the raison d'etre of a battleship, otherwise what you'd have is a very big torpedo boat.
Battleships could theoretically be armed with smaller guns if there was ever a need to, but their main purpose was to be able to soak fire from other ships. IOW to act on the seas as a tank does on land today.
Hence, battleships were obsoleted when advances in firepower (in missiles, bombs, AND battleship guns) made it impossible to armour a ship enough to enable to take hits.
The purpose of a battleship has always been to get its guns to where they're needed and to use them effectively. A sunken ship can't fire its guns, so it must be armored against the kind of weapons used by shore batteries and other ships.
If you need proof of this, just look to the name "battleship". It comes from "line of battle ship" which descends from "ship of the line of battle", which you should already know were unarmored wooden ships. Their sole purpose was to bombard shores and ships.
Ships of the line developed into broadside ironclads, because broadside ironclads could get closer to shore to bombard without fear of being sunk. Then broadside ironclads were replaced by turret ships, which had better guns. Then turret ships developed into pre-dreadnought battleships, which carried more guns than their predecessors. The pre-dreadnoughts developed into dreadnoughts, which had superior accuracy, more large guns, and bigger engines, which allowed them to move their guns more swiftly. Finally culminating in fast battleships with radar directed guns and incredibly fast engines.
There is a clear through line of development from the ship of the line to the fast battleship. That line is gunnery. Once gunnery became outdated, the battleship ceased to be.
If the armor truly was the purpose of battleships, then you would've seen battleships transition to APS rather than steel plate for defense like tanks did. Surely a 45,000 ton hull could hold better radar, more guns and missiles, and more chaff than any smaller hull.
But they didn't. Instead smaller ships took over the surface combatant role, because they offered the same offensive capability as any hypothetical guided missile battleship.
>unarmored wooden ships
nice bait
fuck off
Fuck you, strong hull =/= armor. Any decently sized shot would go straight through the hull of even 1st rate ships of the line.
uh no, lighter shot would bounce off of 1st rates even at closer ranges, at distance even heavier shot like 24 pounders could be stopped. Their hulls are nearly 3 feet thick in some spots man
>strong hull =/= armor
Wrong
Thickening the hull of Age of Sail warships was exactly how they armoured them
>Any decently sized shot
You have to be specific. It takes 24pdr shot and above, and from middling range, to penetrate the best-armoured Age of Sail warships. And as
says some sections on first-rates would be even more resistant.
But the rest of that post was bait anyway, it was just that line which gave it away most conclusively.
basically what first post said.
ever heard of a scifi book called "Footfall"? the aliens in that story literally just grab asteroids and hurl them at earth, and they're more effective and destructive than nukes. why spend money on a death star when you can literally just throw rocks?
Is there a way to even defend against such other than going full on nomadic?
can you rephrase your question? you've got some strange syntax going on. otherwise i'd say no. the only think i can think of is extremely advanced surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) that blow the shit out of anything big, and then reacts to small pieces breaking up and falling in the atmosphere by sending more SAMs at the smaller pieces, until there's a bunch of tiny shit left. the speed at which the missiles are shot would have to be extremely fast and would have to be done by A.I.... i don't think humans could react or think fast enough for the secondary and tertiary payloads
Preemptively wiping out every powerful alien civilization you encounter a la The Killing Star.
depends on the setting
but space is really big, so anything designed to traverse it would need to be built for endurance
so expect size in the hundreds of meters long at the minimum
what constitutes "big" is highly dependent on the technology that exists at the time
No, you're in zero gravity, why would you concentrate everything in one giant sitting duck?
It all depends on the ATK vs DEF technology
Historically DEF > ATK, which led to giant dreadnoughts with massive armor and culminated somewhere around/after the first world war. Same thing with castles prior to the invention of gunpowder.
But over time, ATK > DEF, so then it's smarter to invest in lots and lots of smaller, lighter, stealthier ships, or carriers which carry lots of small light vulnerable (but fast) planes which can carry enough firepower to sink even dreadnoughts.
However, if shields are actually magic and can stop momentum or something (at the expense of energy) and you just need a lot of energy to power them and you need a big ship to produce a lot of energy, then you're back at battleships.
But the golden rule for stories: cool story > boring reality.
>However, if shields are actually magic and can stop momentum or something (at the expense of energy) and you just need a lot of energy to power them and you need a big ship to produce a lot of energy, then you're back at battleships.
They do, and additionally, the giant ships are essentially forward operating bases for terrestrial assaults via air, and space being the destroyer can fire giant fuck off lasers.
>no missiles
>star wars lore is so dogshit, I refuse to take anyone who even considers it seriously
you say it's dogshit, but don't know shit about it. They have missles, it's just a lot of craft don't have them because they strip them in favor of low profile guns.
The ones that use em are bombers. A few bombers can take out the op ship if it gets in the shields or the shields get downed. Those are countered by interceptor or fighter class ships, etc. It's all very simple.
>Very ineffective.
They blew up the deathstar twice along with other ships. It was only ineffective because the Destroyers are essentially space carrier vessels that launch hundreds of crafts and drop ships.
>It's stupid because they don't have missiles
*Pushes glasses back up nose*
Well, *sniff* Actually,
>only if supported by 2-3 Imperial-class Star Destroyers as a secondary gunline
>with a squadron of anti-starfighter escorts as a third group.
>Ideally a squadron of Lancer frigates staged outside of the battlezone
>have them ready to hyperspace in once the main force's TIE fighters pin down the enemy fighters
>while the fighters are engaged by your TIEs and Lancers just steamroll the rebel capital ships with your own
>no missiles
star wars lore is so dogshit, I refuse to take anyone who even considers it seriously
Also
>magic FTL comms
oh fuck off
>magic FTL comms
Is that a thing in Star Wars? It's a thing in Trek but that's because Warp travel works differently, it seems like once you go to lightspeed in Star Wars then you're out of reach of anything
>Is that a thing in Star Wars?
in the movies at least
and in the EU media
you can phone home from anywhere in the galaxy
oh and it's only a few hours from one end of the galaxy to the other
SW has torpedoes and missiles.
You'd be amazed what you can do with no time constraints on production.
a squadron of Lancer frigates staged outside of the battlezone
Are these some kind of flak fortress frigates? Sorry, dont know star wars lore.
basically, yes. they're slow as shit but covered in AA guns and were specifically designed to counter enemy fighter-swarms.
Only if FTL drives and their required power generation, cooling, etc. by themselves require a fuckoff-huge and expensive spaceship. Then you might as well make them as well-protected as you can afford. That's not the case in Star Wars though, even fighters have FTL.
I kind of.like the way battletech handled ftl drives
Reminder the Executor returned to Kuat Drive Yards under its own power.
even after crashing into the deathstar?
it came out fine on the other side
didn't crash, it was a smoking accident
Are you sure that was Executor and not just one of the other SSD's? I swear that they were handing those things out like candy right there at the end. I can name five of the things off the top of my head, and I'm pretty sure that I'm forgetting another two or three.
Technically there were 2 executors…
Old EU or new EU? If it's old it's retconned out of existence.
>not being a carrier and a battleship
You mean
>not being incredibly modular from going full blown battleship to hyperdrive speeder to theatre command
For example the invisible hand was a carrier-ground assault version of the class.
Yeah it makes pretty good sense in the videogame, these badboys can take on so many Mon Calamari Cruisers and ISDs at once. You can probably get through an entire capital ship battle in ICW using only half of the ship's total hp, and basically just that ship. Pentastar alignment is permanently busted for getting one of these out of the gate
no, because the rebels never engaged in a pitched battle with a huge fleet up until endor.
even a huge fleet of ISDs makes little sense, the empire would've probably needed more small and medium sized ships that allowed them to cover more space at a fraction of the cost, as they were acting more like a big police force fighting guerrillas rather than fighting a conventional enemy.
having some anti-fighter corvettes is always good, also maybe a light carrier to get fighters of your own.
>small and medium sized ships that allowed them to cover more space at a fraction of the cost, as they were acting more like a big police force fighting guerrillas
Never should have gotten rid of the Acclamator class.
>having some anti-fighter corvettes is always good, also maybe a light carrier to get fighters of your own.
It functions as a carrier already. Not sure which game he is talking about, but if its Empire at war the light carrier would just be a smaller star destroyer and it'd get destroyed pretty quickly. Corvettes were always useful.
>Never should have gotten rid of the Acclamator class.
Get with the times grandpa, if your combat ship doesnt have ion cannons you're basically a floating waste of scrap in any real man's battle
Real men use transport shuttles? Acclamators know what the LAATs like. Also retrofit.
Why are you two nerds fighting over discount combat barge like Acclamator?
Venator is straight up better & larger version of it with no downsides aside the launch bay being on the top of spine but also letting much larger & more rapid starfighter/landing craft deployment.
Forgot image.
Should have kept the Acclamators and Venators around. They accommodate ISDs well. Venators in a rebel/pirate hunting or carrier support role would have been really useful.
Can Venators do this?
meant for
Acclamators are assault ships. They're for ferrying and supporting armies but aren't well suited for space battles. Venators are carriers but undergunned for their size in slugging matches. Meanwhile ISDs are fast battleships with crazy amounts of firepower, using a limiyed carrier capacity as point defences. While also ferrying around 10k stormtroopers. Tarkin's one size fits all solution of questionable optimization.
Rebels didn't have a large number of capital ships. Not much benefit to using the larger ships most of the time.
Yeah, the ISD was the right ship for the wrong war. It'd been beastly in the Clone Wars. In fact the danger dorito+TIE spam doctrine seems to have been informed by the later parts of the Clone Wars where battles like Coruscant had huge knife range clusterfucks of ships giving each other broadsides and larger hyperspace capable multirole fighters got shat all over by smaller and more agile fighters. Then after the Empire commits to ISDs and TIEs income finally learns how to cram shields and hyperdrives into an actually agile platform, but by that point there's neither a need or room for it doctrinally or logistically within the Empire.
Same as aircraft carriers, not cost effective putting hyper drives into all of your fighters. Then orbital bombardment and hyperlane interdiction (gravity wells) and more than enough freight capacity to garrison ground assault or supplies. They're less effective if isolated or not full compliment for the aforementioned reasons ITT, but that's down to deploying them correctly and circumstances not requiring being spread thin. This
baste
Rebels sort of proxy French commerce raiding destroyer emphasis
Yes, yes it could.
" Since it was capable of entering a planet's atmosphere and landing on its surface, the pre-Imperial Venator-class had a standard complement of 40 LAAT/i gunships and 24 military walkers for planetary operations."
Yes.
Venators can do atmospheric operations and land at dedicated yards, but they were reliant on LAATs for getting troops to the ground. They couldn't do the Accalamtor thing of dropping down onto a random dirt field and acting like a cruiser sized huey. It's a whole different ball game when you can actually touch down under fire and disgorge 16,000 troops and 6 months of supplies directly onto the planet.
they have landing gears and ramps like the acclamator, they show it in episode 3
I'm pretty sure that one is just resting on it's hull. All the other images I've seen of them require a landing cradle of some sort
On one hand yeah, on the other they clearly have big loading offloading ramps like the Acclamators so you'd think they would be able to at least make a field landing to deploy their ground assets. Then again they could be used more as heavy transports and deploy their forces from ports while the Acclamators act as your LHD/LHA/LPD or whatever you want to call the various ships that have well decks to more directly off load units. Idk
Well the wiki says they can land but only at prepared strips so I guess you're right
>the Acclamators act as your LHD/LHA/LPD or whatever you want to call the various ships that have well decks to more directly off load units
Do you need anything else to storm a secret rebel base?
Yeah
>Never should have gotten rid of the Acclamator class.
true, but maybe coming up with a new design of similar size and scope along with fleets of smaller patrol vessels would've been a good combo
>It functions as a carrier already. Not sure which game he is talking about, but if its Empire at war the light carrier would just be a smaller star destroyer and it'd get destroyed pretty quickly. Corvettes were always useful.
depending on which mod you play they have a limited complement of fighters, meaning that if you go with just one super star destroyer against an entire fleet of rebels you risk running out of fighters
some acclamators were converted to pure battleship
ok but the empire didnt need huge fleets of venators just like they didnt need huge fleets of ISDs
yes, they show it in episode 3 on kashyyyk
If you play Empire At War, you rapidly realise the need for fleets in being composed of powerful Imperial-class Star Destroyers.
because of hyperdrive tech, Rebels can pop up anywhere. there's no point building small ships like Acclamators and Venators because it's wasting credits, they're much more fragile and will be smashed wholesale by raiding Y-wings for a fraction of what it costs the Rebels. conversely, a heavy battle squadron of ISDs is nearly invincible, and the Rebels will not engage because you can beat anything short of a Mon Cal squadron, and if THEY show up you bring in Vader and the Grand Fleet. Rebels should never be in a position to invite a fleet action.
one very good way to win therefore is to patrol the galaxy with these battle squadrons and keep knocking down Rebel concentrations while building the Death Star and searching for Mon Mothma, just like the Empire was doing in ANH and ESB.
Venators are Acclamators upscaled.
Victorys are the true battleships.
>Top spine hanger is only a disadvantage if you point the top of your ship towards enemy
The Venator's spine hanger takes up forward firepower space, contrast with Victory ISDs.
To be fair Venators in that game deployed pretty sizeable squadrons of fighters so they were good in bulk or with some smaller escort as the middle man ship where you want to knock out annoying raiding fleets but not engage the large proper ones.
Tartan Cruisers raped fighters no joke, so I always used those and ISDs, nothing else
>middle man ship where you want to knock out annoying raiding fleets
no reason to. any ship not an ISD or a Tartan is a waste in the Imperial fleet, because they're neither cost-effective against Y-wings nor viable against these bastards
>but not engage the large proper ones
as the Empire you *should* be out looking for the large proper ones, because pound for pound your capital ships are better than Rebel ones.
>Tartan Cruisers raped fighters no joke, so I always used those and ISDs
I did the same but with a bunch of TIE Defenders added in for some extra fuck you Ion shots and torps.
Fuck it, I'm installing EAW right now. Any good mods for it?
No idea, I only played vanilla
I didn't even play the Force of Corruption expansion, people said Consortium was OP and I wasn't interested anyhow
Thanks bois
Consortium is like the rebels but they have vastly more money than everyone and units that kick the shit out of their empire or rebel equivalents. You either stomp them in the early game before everything gets upgraded to cheese ball levels of rape and you're spending 2/3rds of your income removing corruption, or you get raped.
NTA but thrawns revenge and/or Fall of the Republic
I second this hard. Thrawn's Revenge and Fall of the Republic are just about the best vidya that I've ever played.
>iirc the base game itself was made by former Westwood employees who did Command and Conquer, which explains why the game has good bones
>there's no point building small ships like Acclamators and Venators because it's wasting credits, they're much more fragile and will be smashed wholesale by raiding Y-wings for a fraction of what it costs the Rebels.
Bring tartans and those Y-wings aren't cost effective. OT Rebels weren't building a fleet on the same scale as the empire.
As I said in later posts, ISDs and Tartans FTW
>Rian flipping the game board while screaming "THIS AIN'T YOUR DADDY'S STAR WARS!"
This retard is a total hack. Every single one of his movies I watched (skimmed) has been subversion after subversion after subversion for the sake of nothing but subversion. He's like a five year old child with that one cheeky joke that he can't resist saying over and over and over and giggling to himself. No one in their right mind should have put him in charge of anything serious let alone an episode of a movie series. Having him put in charge is just more evidence that Kathleen fucking Kennedy rubber stamped his script without reading it and then went back to hoovering crack off her girlfriend's minge.
Brick is a legit good film that doesn't rely on subversion.
>This retard is a total hack. Every single one of his movies I watched (skimmed) has been subversion after subversion after subversion for the sake of nothing but subversion. He's like a five year old child with that one cheeky joke that he can't resist saying over and over and over and giggling to himself.
Unfortunately that joke never fails to make insufferable midwits (the only people that actually like The Last Jedi) pat themselves on the back so he has a guaranteed steady hollywood career even if he never actually makes another Star Wars film again.
>Unfortunately that joke never fails to make insufferable midwits (the only people that actually like The Last Jedi) pat themselves on the back so he has a guaranteed steady hollywood career even if he never actually makes another Star Wars film again.
I will always love teh last jedi because it's hilarious. I just wish I still had the mexican camrip I first saw, because when Leia flew across space you could hear nervous mexican laughter that said "man what the FUCK is going on?"
My favorite part ws how Poe was literally always right, but admiral hotdog tells him he's wrong for no reason, then she gets the ships destroyed because he did what he said not to do that she disregarded, and that's meant to be heroic. I think the funniest part was when Leia shot Poe because I thought he was dead at first, and then his realization that she got everyone killed.
Followed by the ugly Bobby lookin Chinese girl who goes out of her way to stop Finn from having a character arc, killing half the remaining resistance just so she could get laid.
Nothing on the bombing sequence on the pizza slice? I was wondering where all the missile launchers from the previous film went and why they thought a scene with (not)B-17 bombing a battleship was a good idea.
>why they thought a scene with (not)B-17 bombing a battleship was a good idea
clear case of trying to copy something without understanding why it was done in the first place
the contrast between ST and Rogue One, where the production team knew what had been done and WHY and riffed off of that, is just breathtaking
The yo mama thing was the dumbest shit I'd heard and it shocked me stiff for a bit. That's about it. I didn't have a huge issue with the destroyer bombing outside of the stupid slow motion sister death scene. Was a nice WWII parralel which is something George might've done.
One thing I will give the sequels, the first two are cinematographally (is that a word?) competent . Pacing, visuals, cuts, etc, all very well done, well shot, looks like a star wars movie should. Good mix of practical and CGI, that interquel movie was better for it, but that one retcons Katarn so I'm not sure how I feel about it.
The big problem with them is the writing was dogshit and I think in the case of 1-2 it was written by dyed hair obese cat ladies who hated star wars, iirc.
>Was a nice WWII parralel which is something George might've done.
High level bombing of ships was something that was done and they discovered it didn't work. They essentially went from designs that did work to designs that didn't. Its something that George might've done, but not everything he did turned out well.
>One thing I will give the sequels, the first two are cinematographally (is that a word?) competent . Pacing, visuals, cuts, etc, all very well done, well shot, looks like a star wars movie should. Good mix of practical and CGI, that interquel movie was better for it, but that one retcons Katarn so I'm not sure how I feel about it.
Some great shots, movie pacing was good, character development was terrible.
Its more about the ship itself being a garbage design made to be destroyed and the antagonists sitting there waiting to die. Even commenting on hot stupid they were acting. Scene would of made more sense in context of the movie if it the plan did fail.
>Pacing
>pacing
TLJ pacing was utter shit, mainly due to the overlong casino world sequence
ROS wasn't great either
TFA just rips of ANH so lmao
>TLJ pacing was utter shit, mainly due to the overlong casino world sequence
The casino was cool, and definitely could've fit if it wasn't a completely pointless escapade you could cut that whole thing out and lose nothing of the movie.
>ROS
I specifically didn't bring up that shitheap because the pacing was so spastic I got physically sick watching it and had to take breaks because so much shit was happening at once to the point where nothing made sense until it ended in the most insane bullshit
They apparently want to make another 3 movies starring Rey in the role Luke should've had all along because fuck you. Dunno how that's working out since the second movie killed most interest in star wars and had the third underperform by more than half what they anticipated.
>TFA just rips of ANH so lmao
if it ain't broke.
ROS also has terrible camerawork
I was going to screenshot a particular scene, but I found this Youtube movie clip playlist which makes my point for me hilariously just using the video thumbnails alone
>thumbnails 1, 2 and 5
the most BASIC of photography errors: zooming in so fucking close you chop off the top of their heads
this is repeated over and over and over throughout the movie
>thumbnails 4 and 6
instead of grand panoramic shots or at least waist-up shots so more background can be seen, tons of upper-chest shots, leaving no room to appreciate the surroundings
>thumbnail 3
violating the first rule of photography, the rule of thirds. for fuck's sake, they even have overlays on your fucking smartphone to help you do it right
a fucking teenager with a fucking smartphone taking their daily Instagram update literally takes better shots than this horseshit!
You have ot understand that ROS was cut together in a couple of months with a desperate JJ Abrams trying to salvage this flaming dogshit bag of a series that Rian had dumped on his doorstep.
IIRC it had to be shot, and reshot a dozen times, with people being called in to do new scenes and other crap constantly. It turned out awful but it was gonna be a lot worse.
I'd say swapping directors in the middle of a trilogy is just a bad idea anyway, but then what
describes makes everything sound so much worse.
The Dreadnought is the worst design ever conceived because the only reason it turned out the way it did visually is that Rian wanted to make a two dimensional WW2 space bombing sequence. The ship was made as flat as possible to be a giant flying ground target with a big shoot me here dome (blue circle) and only given 26 dorsal defensive guns (green circles) for Poe to solo like he was a P-47 pilot strafing AAA targets in Germany. Standard ISDs over thirty years older and nearly five times smaller in length outgun it by an order of magnitude. The space B-17 bomber ripoffs could have approached the ship from any other angle than they did (red arrow) and not been threatened by it at all. The ship literally was designed for the scene it was featured in to be destroyed in the way it was rather than any consideration given to its actual role as a spacecraft or weapon platform.
Specs for the hapless set piece.
Poe did what he did out of desperation and because he had to. The plan literally couldn't work if he didn't perform like a schizophrenic red baron in space germany. And then Leia and hotdog chastize him, then demote him for.....saving the day and allowing their dumbshit plan to even work.
Could you imagine if every military worked like that?
"sorry Patton, your tactics work and you pulled off the bullshit plan we had that shouldn't have worked and was basically a suicide mission, but we're demoting you and putting Weenus in charge"
It's frankly insulting that it took the Mandator name too when it doesn't look anything like them other than being a giant space triangle but taken to the laziest aesthetic extreme. You also have to love how when it appears they think the priority target is blasting the base that's already being abandoned and is physically incapable of going anywhere instead of the enemy flagship that's about to flee, truly a movie that can only happen because every character involved continuous makes stupid decisions.
Since when do ships have to look alike to share a name?
Probably something to do with class upgrade progression.
The entirety of TLJ is just the Resistance and FO competing to see which of them can be the most mind numbingly stupid and incompetent.
>My favorite part ws how Poe was literally always right, but admiral hotdog tells him he's wrong for no reason
A good way to convey that would've been to have Poe launch all the fighters again the moment the moment they realize the First Order followed them through hyperspace only to get swarmed and overwhelmed because they're ready this time. Instead they all get destroyed in their hangars by 3 (three) TIE fighters who then proceed to cripple the entire Resistance 'fleet' by themselves before suddenly leaving because the writer realized there isn't a story if they don't.
>admiral hotdog
ah yes, good old subverting Rian. "psych! the evil-looking apparently-incompetent toxic bitch boss wasn't evil or incompetent after all! ahaha gotcha! ahaha you shoulda seen the look on your face! ahahaha wheee aren't I clever isn't this fun!"
I thought hotdog was in the OT somewhere but I was thinking of Mon Mothma.
A lot of her problems and the trilogy is centered around girl power bullshit, when there's plenty of good strong women in starwars, and they just, don't understand how to write a strong woman unless she's
1.always right no matter what
2.does backflips through explosions
3.is the best at everything for no reason
4.constantly gets her dick sucked so you know she's top tier
5.always in the scene and if she's not there people should be asking "where's female character?"
going back to the weapons and tactics of starwars, this shit warped them , especially concerning tactics in the ship scramble hotdog used, which then later led to the light speed suicide bombing which invalidates the need to have a fucking death star, or any space weapons at all really.
Why bother making a giant death laser when you get the same effect from teleporting a giant hunk of shit at light speed through a planet.
>centered around girl power bullshit
she literally had the entire task force destroyed out of sheer incompetence, if she hadn't killed herself they would've tried her for treason as suspected imperial spy
>she literally had the entire task force destroyed out of sheer incompetence, if she hadn't killed herself they would've tried her for treason as suspected imperial spy
that's what was hilarious about it, they wrote it like she was right, and you should hate Poe and her sacrifice was heroic, when really she acted like a schizophrenic retard imperial plant.....but you're not supposed to think that!
It's liek when they had the redskull speech in the marvel comics and he was 100% right, but because it was written by brain rotted liberals they didn't understand that what he was saying was sound advice because they're so insulated in their little bubble they couldn't fathom anything else.
Same kinda thought process when you talk to shitlibs who hate guns and point out that should they get jumped, or accosted in anyway, their limp dick ass couldn't do anything about it. They don't even fathom it as a possibility. Zero critical thinking skills, insular world view, and ultimately that's all of Hollywood.
the thing about Holdo is that it's not even gurl power (which I don't exactly mind, when it's done well and not at anyone else's expense)
Holdo is straight up a toxic and incompetent bitch. End of story. There's nothing else to it.
The "twist' doesn't work.
She doesn't magically become redeemed just because she kamikazes the entire fucking fleet.
It's like, what if at the end of ESB Darth Vader turned out to be carrying out some super Xanatosian Good Guy plan and he was right all along - you wouldn't suddenly praise him for killing all those Jedi and all those Rebels in order to carry out his Master Plan. No, he's still a colossal fucking dick.
To be an antihero, you need to be heroic 95% of the time and an asshole only 5% of the time, like Malcolm Reynolds.
To be a redeemed villain, you need to actually apologise, change your ways, sacrifice something, and even then you will still justifiably be called "mostly villain", like Prince Zuko. You don't get to say "it was all a brilliant ploy, I'm not a villain".
Holdo is neither, and Rian Johnson and whoever greenlit her stupid arc should unironically be shot.
She's not meant to be an anti hero, she's meant to be "girl power is correct and right and men are stupid" the character. That's what makes the whole thing such a hilarious farce, the writers are so amateur and stupid they actually though she came off as heroic the whole time and not some insane retard.
Unironically Tommy Wisau's Star Wars, except at least Johnny was a likable protagonist.
>character development was terrible.
yep, my point exactly, visually stunning and competent, but it has no soul, and the writing is terrible.
>Its more about the ship itself being a garbage design made to be destroyed and the antagonists sitting there waiting to die. Even commenting on hot stupid they were acting. Scene would of made more sense in context of the movie if it the plan did fail.
The movie was all about looking cool first with nobody behind the scenes to say "hey wait maybe this should be done better" or to make the scenes tie together well. Their first huge mistake was not having the Empire to still be a large faction, since something that big is inevitably going to split into warlord factions, some even decent at their job. This is what Thrawn was, and they hint at this in Mandalorian s3 but it's still retarded because they keep shilling the new republic as absolute good guys and the empire as absolute evil, which they're not, and s1 did a better job of showing the grey area.
>The movie was all about looking cool first with nobody behind the scenes to say "hey wait maybe this should be done better" or to make the scenes tie together well.
All the star wars movies have a a bit of this. TLJ just takes it to the next level and is proud of it.
>ROS wasn't great either
Didn't watch it.
>All the star wars movies have a a bit of this
That was al George was, and he was good at cool looking shit and concepts, however he needed those editors and writers to go "george this is shit but we can make this work"
This is probably why the prequels are remembered fondly despite being terrible. The backbone he wrote was cool, and it's a really great playground of toys to use. He just lacked the editorial overhead to refine his blob of clay.
>the writers are so amateur
its truly amazing how they can make a movie with budget in hundreds of millions yet completely fail to include anyone who has ever even read a sci-fi novel (singular) in its creation
>its truly amazing how they can make a movie with budget in hundreds of millions yet completely fail to include anyone who has ever even read a sci-fi novel (singular) in its creation
Because this was Kathleen's abortion, if you look at all her planning after she kicked her former fucktoy George out, she wnet all in on "the force is female" and hired on a bunch of female left wing ideologues only for their politics, along with yes men like Rian Mongson. She even went along with the whole "star wars isn't for incels and my political enemies!" which is insane. The result was a cacophany of wasted talent, nonsensical battles, and an incomprehensible story that nearly killed a billion dollar GIANT of a franchise.
It's certainly permanently damaged the brand to the point where the only media anybody consumes of it are the disney + series, of which Ms Kennedy was so livid it did well she fought to get it shitcanned.
Yet, s1's Space Clint Eastwood is exactly what everybody wanted.
ISD are only necessary of they field something bigger than a corvette. They are going to be more useful that a smaller ship, but without dealing with something bigger than a corvette or frigate normally it's not worth the extra cost. RTS don't include maintenance and upkeep.
Yes (but no need for armor and shield), just crash it into a planet.
Estimated weight of star destroyer is 40,000,000,000 kg. If it travels at 1% of speed of light and impacts a planet, it would create an impact as big as the one that killed the dinosaurs.
In fact, no need for a "ship" at all, just take giant asteroids floating in space, attach thrusters to them and lob them into planets.
Mass production of space engines would be fucking wild.
Outside of hyperspace where ships were supposed to be completely ineffective at ramming, ships in Star Wars move very slowly. Fighters pass ships like they're standing still and they're almost always portrayed as moving under mach 1.
Depends on the setting. In a basic space fantasy setting with shields which match guns, it's easy to see that bigger=better. Imagine a very simplistic combat scenario, with a ship costing twice as much with twice the shields and twice the guns, facing two ships with half the shields and half the guns each. By the time the bigger ship has lost half its shields, one of the smaller ships has been destroyed and fleet firepower has been cut in half. Of course, this is doesn't include complexities like maneuvering, retreat, blind spots, economies of scale etc. But in many computer games where you design ships, most players would quite happily get the biggest ships they are allowed to make, and the only real reason not to to just make one megaship is the number of solar systems to defend and the time it takes to construct.
>gets mogged under full coverage and dies long before either smaller ship loses shields because less than half it's guns can focus on either at a time
That sure as shit depends ship shape and weapons layout. The largership can also pack stronger shields and weapons.
Things we need that scifi assumes we'll master
Artificial Gravity
Power sources
Shields
These things are all basically magic.
As much as I love Dune, the whole setting operates on Bullshit Technology to allow for sword fights.
The honor Harrington universe is guilty of this…. Jesus do I love the detail in all the battles, it’s well written, feels smart, and is super engaging… but it’s all based on magic drives that act like shields and essentially reverting capital ship combat back to British ships of the line…. Which makes sense since it’s really “horatio hornblower…IN SPACE!!!!”
>Jesus do I love the detail in all the battles
And ellipses
Isaac Asimov said "suffciently advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic"
It's true too, UFOS presumably have decent power sources and turn off our fucking missiles and weapons by floating around like fags, they also took our space tether.
It's possible, for certain, but who knows how far we'll get. Even Bob Lazar didn't tell us how far it got.
>"suffciently advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic"
Arthur C. Clarke
I always get them mixed up since I remember them via Isaac Clarke.
they mostly think "I really wish I was fucking somebody in the ass right now RUSSIA STRONK"
Wonder if that’s what the russians think when they see that video of the US air war against Iraq lol.
In 1991, Desert Storm mentally broke the Soviet Union.
That webm and Youtube video has probably broken today's generation of Russhits, because they know now that even 30 years later, they still can't pull off anything approximating that, and NATO is 30 years more advanced now. That's why they seethe so much about NATO transferring weapons - they know they have no answer if the full force of NATO tech is unleashed.
>something George might've done
George knew better than to have gravity bombs; his starfighter attacks were based on skip bombing and torpedo runs
>proton TORPEDOES
Top spine hanger is only a disadvantage if you point the top of your ship towards enemy fire while releasing the smaller craft.
Just do like they did in the cartoon, point the bottom of the ship towards the enemy to act as a shield, release the craft. Then re-normalize so you can fire.
The Empire had the Secutor-class Star Destroyer as its venator replacement and Venators were the main ship for the early Empire during like most of the Reconquest of the Rim while ISD production kicked into high gear
Best star destroyer class ship coming through
My man
I like the change of weapons placement to the middle and from what I remember it was suppose to be smaller/mobile compare to it's predecessors
The answer is the opposite to the question "does the other side have the means to destroy it?"
And even then the cost of doing so could be to your advantage.
What would win, one of these or the Battlestar Pegasus?
Doesn't that thing have no shields? I assume a flak barrage won't stop a turbolaser
on one hand, the battlestars have fucking absurd amounts of armor and guns plus their super carrier level airwings, but they still are a low tech sci-fi setting. Battletech would be a far more even match up which i would honestly love to see. an ISD even with some of the lower end calcs would eat them for breakfast a SSD isn't even a crumb
>*bids one Perigard Zalman*
>heh nothing personnel surat
>you may fire when ready
>m-m-my Khan
>yes what is it
>the Galactica
>spit it out
>it has jumped away! and it was not anywhere near a Lagrange or pirate point!
>N-N-NANI?!?!
Battlestar would wipe the floor with any class of Star destroyer.
Insanely thick armor vs the Star destroyer's thin armor and for what ever reason Star wars space battles happen at point blank range. Shields in Star wars only seem to stop Lasers and kinetic attacks seem to go clean through them (Asteroids, A-Wing, nearly every fucking space battle that has missiles)
So that means that all of BSG weapons will be going clean through the shields and hitting the paper thin hulls that Star Destroyers have. Since an A-wing flying at ~600 mph can disable the bridge on a Super Star destroyer and cripple it, I'm guessing their Railgun batteries which have a really really long range will be punching holes clean through said ships.
as much as I like to dunk on SW, all ships have two shield systems one for energy one for physical objects and Pegasus or Galatica's shells are going to bounce off that considering ME or halo spinal railguns tend to fail which are orders of magnitude more powerful. The SSD that went down had already been pounded by multiple ships for an hour at that point the A wing flies into the bridge. The ISDs in the asteroid belt had been hunting the falcon for days before their own shields began to fail
>all ships have two shield systems one for energy one for physical objects
I thought only some had that?
Based on the original PS2 star wars battlefront II they are hard enough to take down that they are worth it. They need an entire flock of fighters bombing them for like 45 minutes straight for the main shields to go down (which can be reinstated), are armed to the teeth with turrets that will instakill your fighter, and have an entire army brigade waiting onboard to murder you if you try to board it through the gate
If they are as easy to take out as they are in the awful new movies then no, building them isn't worth it
A single bomber can just run alongside the ship for about 5 minutes to disable shields and then about 2 minutes for each module. Not to mention flight js really blocky feeling and lacks soul. Space battles sorta sucked. If redone with a more modern flight sim type engine, I'm sure it'd be one of the best parts of the game.
t. 300 hours in SWBF2 on PC and countless hours on the PS2
>Space battles sorta sucked
For 2005 it was fuckawesome
It doesnt even make sense in star wars once yoh consider episode 8. Just make a drone ship out of a bunch of tungsten or whatever fantasy beskar metal thats really dense and hard that they have, put a shield and a hyperdrive system on it and you have an undefeatable torpedo that you can use on HVTs like in your picrel, or for any given star destroyer considering that even x wings and basic transport ships get hyperdrives, so they're not prohibitively expensive
>but episode eig—
Shhhh we don't talk about that one
In all seriousness the most unrealistic part about space battles is the way they are fought. They would not really be fought in close quarters or deploying hundreds of fighters.
It would be a couple of dreadnoughts firing large antimaterial autocannons with high RPM or smart "loitering" plasma missiles that constantly correct their heading, at each other from many thousands of kilometers away from one another and the ships trying their best to dodge the incoming fire or tank it better than their opponent's ship. In the real future I think it will be very much like mechanized 1700s line combat
I don't know why they always teleport their motherships right next to each other. Seems like a very bad plan
>very much like mechanized 1700s line combat
t. doesn't understand even the most basic concept of orbits or how to move from one place to another in space.
LOGH a shit.
No, I made my statements precisely because I know how orbits work. Even the most mediocre load of fuel on an absolutely massive hypothetical rocket on a mothership that is parked in Earth orbit could easily take it out of interstellar orbit and fuck Voyager in the ass on its way to the Oort Cloud. Atmospheric drag doesn't exist and gravity is a meme force in the orbit of most bodies so you have the weird predicament of every weapon on your mothership having near-infinite range. And you would take advantage of that
>massed formations just slugging out
>I know how orbits work
You're one of those brainlets who thinks you catch up to something ahead of you in orbit by going faster, aren't you?
>You're one of those brainlets who thinks you catch up to something ahead of you in orbit by going faster, aren't you?
Yes. Yes, you literally can do that. It's called direct transfer
Are you really so braindead as to think moving to an entirely different orbit is the same as intercepting something on a nearly similar orbit to what you already have?
>Reddit frog
Honestly, why is this cancer still a thing?
Because pepe and apu are our defacto reaction images. Slept under a rock all these years?
Wojak reactions are from reddit and cat reactions are from discord
>frog moron thinks hes better than tranimal posters and sòyteens
Lmao
You are all the fucking same.
Go back to frènchan
The escape velocity at a given height is sqrt(2) times the circular orbit velocity at the same height. Earth's orbital velocity is 30 km/s. Therefore, the Sun's escape velocity from Earth orbit is 42.4 km/s. Since we're already moving at orbital velocity, the required increase in velocity is 12.4 km/s. If we ignore Earth itself, you still need at least that much dV to escape the solar system.
There currently exists no weapon system capable of launching projectiles or warheads this fast. An ICBM, which has infinite range on Earth's surface, only has about 8 km/s of dV. While the widespread militarization of space must assume some technological progress, and such a weapon could feasibly be constructed even with current technology by simply packing more fuel, it is still not correct to say that EVERY weapon on a space ship has infinite range.
get fucked. FTL particle beams and missiles being used in line formation works fine for a setting where the battles aren't for spectacle
be thankful you even got ship classes and fighters
>a 20,000 ship fleet in LOGH only has about 200 space fighters assigned to it
damn shame because the fighters are SEX and their pilots are BASED
>battles aren't for spectacle
No, the battles in LOGH are just a vehicle for some barely adult to upstage everyone with their dues ex machina levels of cheeseball "genius".
julian literally only delivers the killing blow on already won battles and disposes of rabble
the final gauntlet is moreso reinhardt's autism than julian's sucking of the writer
>that speech about how each of those shots hit like hiroshima x3 in me2 and how you should aim carefully
>massive barrage towards earth in final battle, some shots clearly missing reapers
not like earth wasnt already fucked up but still funny
>I don't know why they always teleport their motherships right next to each other. Seems like a very bad plan
limited hyperspace lanes and entry/exit points mean you can just set up close range ambushes on enemy fleets. It makes it harder for the defending fleet to either retreat or fix their formation
>In the real future I think it will be very much like mechanized 1700s line combat
For sure, as long as we get the warship production levels of LoGH to sustain that
Thrawn's Revenge/Fall of the Republic are great like the other anon said
There's reasons people don't consider the ST canon, retarded shit like hyperspace ramming is one of them. If that was even remotely feasible, hyperspace kill vehicles would have been the norm for several thousand years and the OT would have been Dr. Strangelove in space. There'd either be no wars out of fear of MAD or no galactic society the way we see it.
>There's reasons people don't consider the ST canon, retarded shit like hyperspace ramming is one of them.
though, you don't even need the actual hyperspace ramming part for this maneuver to break how warfare works, you have same results if you just fire a heavy torpedo filled to brim with anti matter and small hyperdrive that only needs to work once
It invalidates the Death Star as a concept too. ST is a soulless cash grab that toes the line between awful on purpose and terrible on accident quite well
Why dont they just upscale a lightsaber and use it to defkect laser beams, or put a jedi on each ship, or clone darth vader, or teach their stormtroopers how to shoot? Man the empire really fucking sucks
It does if you're the Empire, dabbing on desert/ice/farm worlds with little in the way of orbital defenses. Otherwise not really.
Rebel scum HATE this one simple trick.
>Desire to protect Harpax III intensifies
I was going to call you butthurt, but then you got dubs and also
this soiboi roleplaying like a fucking gay lol
moron.
>hyperspace jump
>in a mass shadow
The lore is made up at the whim of the writer to suit whatever plot they want to do at very moment regardless of anything written before. It's always been this way and is the reason the EU is such a disorganized garbage pile.
Things used to be fine when hyperspace lanes where supposed to be limited in number and entrance/exits. Now they just jump anytime anywhere most of the time not even bothering with the calculations
the writers are lazy, unskilled, and disreputable
That was never canon though.
unfortunately they control the IP
The book has it leaving atmosphere before jumping, but at some point you either accept a level of retardation or dont.
That particular jump doesn't sit right with me either. Especially since it just leaves all of the rubble behind. However I've always thought that jumping into/out of gravity wells was never really a hard and fast rule. It's not like gravity wells are some binary thing where you're in it or out of it. It's a gradient as you approach the center of mass. That theoretically you could jump into or out of a planet's atmosphere, but in practice doing so would require calculations that were too complex and a hyperdrive calibrated to the point where it could operate within extremely thin margins of error. From one perspective, isn't that essentially what happened with the Millenium Falcon and Han's boasting about the Kessel Run? That the Falcon was capable of plotting a course far closer to the gravity wells of those black holes than most other ships were capable of? Logically that implies that a sufficiently advanced hyperdrive would be capable of jumping into and out of increasingly "deep" gravity wells. Maybe it would be the kind of trick that a desperate smuggler might do to try to get past customs, but for every one that succeeds a dozen go splat. Or maybe glow in the dark special forces could do the jump after some super computers spent forever calculating the jump and they waited for the stars to precisely align for their narrow jump window.
Regardless, I don't think that the Lusankya was equipped with such a hypothetically advanced hyperdrive. The whole "kool-aid man" through the city streets thing probably would have thrown off the calibration of such a precise machine too.
could also be a time thing? A fighter zipping around in atmo would spend years trying to do it and wouldn't have the computing power but a fuck huge capital which is planned to leave at a know point and has thousands of times more computing power would be able to do it in say hours
it angers, it does
cool video though
Whoa whoa whoa, who the FUCK made an animation out of the Rogue Squadron books? PLEASE tell me there's more? God that series was one of the best of the Star Wars EU books. Wedge is fucking S tier and should've been considered as the best Rebel Alliance pilot behind Luke.
%3D%3D
Cringy dialogue aside its mind boggling some random autist can make better content than multibillion dollar media corporations
That's pretty damn good for just a few people and succeeding where a multi-billion dollar company couldn't, making stars wars feel like a star war. The EU had such potential.
Holy shit I'm impressed. I always thought they should just turn the Star Wars EU books into movies as they would've made fucking bank and this video just confirms how good it would have been. Could've had the Thrawn series of books made into a trilogy, turn the entire Rogue Squadron series of books into 6 movies, make movies about the rebuilt Jedi Order, etc. (just fucking avoid the Yuuzhan Vong shit). Why Disney did what they did with the plot of Episodes 8+ just boggles my mind and the fact that there were still a bunch of ravenous Star Wars fans to eat it up makes me cringe.
And yes, for the record I know that for every good EU book there was almost equally a horrible one too, such as the fucking zombie stormtroopers book with Han and Chewie.
>Holy shit I'm impressed. I always thought they should just turn the Star Wars EU books into movies as they would've made fucking bank and this video just confirms how good it would have been
Im of the same mind and all these years later i am still confused as fuck as why they executed the EU full stop. They coulda kept it going and contiune with their new shit but nooo. Guess it would have drawn too many eyes to the shit they were ripping off and making worse, somehow.
Why they just killed the EU is beyond me. There was already established lore that was loved by the Star Wars fandom and could have EASILY been made into amazing movies. Maybe it had something to do with Disney not wanting to even bother getting permission from the authors, but I suppose it's not surprising in the end with seeing what Disney has become as a company. Their signs of decay had already been seen for decades and we hit the point of no return over a decade ago.
As a vidya game enjoyer too, it's depressing to know that we'll never get games like the Jedi Outcast series, or the Rogue Squadron games, because they all belonged to the previous now-declared dead EU. FUCK it just pisses me off to even think about it because obviously this whole shitshow doesn't affect just Star Wars, but pretty much any well-loved fandom from the 80s - early 00's that's been milked and destroyed by Hollywood or the gaming industry.
>Disney not wanting to even bother getting permission from the authors
this
current Disney has a political agenda to wipe out the IP it inherited from the white patriarchy, and reestablish a new history. That's why it insists on its shitty live action remakes of everything, because all those remakes are woke AF. Once the remakes are done, the previous media can be stuffed into the "Disney Vault" and never rotated out again. When future generations ask "What is the Disney Pinocchio movie?" they will be pointed at the one where the Blue Fairy is the black man; Little Mermaid is the one where Ariel is black; Beauty and the Beast is the one where Cogsworth is gay; etc
Similarly Star Wars has been rewritten so that clone troopers were never "just following orders", they were mindfucked by an actual chip; the Jedi way is bad and you shouldn't practice self-restraint, you should follow your heart's desire and "save the ones we love"; also Vader didn't defeat Palpatine, Rey did
This is how media is used to erase a culture and rewrite it.
>current Disney has a political agenda to wipe out the IP it inherited from the white patriarchy, and reestablish a new history.
good luck with that, current writers can't even name the sci-fi works star wars drew influence from
Why would that matter? In fact it's a win. Nobody cares any more that a Jedi is supposed to be a kind of honourable samurai paladin. Or that the ANH trope is supposed to be WW2 Guns of Navarone / Dam Busters in SPAAACE. All they will know is whatever gay feminist shit that will be rolled out in future, and that all the Empire villains are British-sounding white men because white men are villains, natch.
>Why would that matter?
the new movies are actual garbage made up of disjointed fever dream scenes without any internal continuity
yeah and the Disney live action remakes are shit. so what? they won't back down. they'll just buy more reviews hyping it up. at some point long in the future, they'll look back and say oh yeah it sucked. but not because of the wokeshit we stuffed in and the affirmative action hiring and studio meddling that made the film production so schizoid. no no, it's something else entirely. I don't know what. oh and white men hated it so that was a problem.
after all, that's what they did with The Last Jedi. don't you remember?
>so what?
i am not going to pay for you to subject me to a psychotic break in video format
I watched 7 and was disappointed that the authors did a record scratch to completely undo all of the successes of the previous movies to reset the status quo of the story being about a plucky underdog resistance vs an Empire with infinite resources. It would have been far more interesting to see stories with the roles reversed. Where the New Republic holds the seat of power but is undergoing growing pains as it tries to cement the legitimacy of its rule in the eyes of the galaxy at large, and likewise the Imperial Loyalists are reduced to the insurgents that have swapped to cloak and dagger tactics to try to strangle the fledgling republic in its crib. Instead it was just Episode IV:2 “Member the memberberries?”
I decided to give them one more chance with 8. Let's imagine for a moment that the bitch didn't exist and not dock the movie any points for her stupidity. The movie portrayed Luke completely out of character by transforming him from Luke “there's still good in him” Skywalker to Luke “My troubled nephew is experiencing some angst in his adolescence. Better kill him in his sleep” Skywalker.
That was the end. They don't get another dime from me.
That's exactly what happened to me.
Oh, thanks for reminding me why I dont watch films anymore, if I want campy comedy I watch flavour of the season anime, if I want action I just play MW or Total Warhammer, if I actually want some historical tale I put some youtube podcast with some waspy narrator while painting miniatures, life is good.
>the new movies are actual garbage made up of disjointed fever dream scenes without any internal continuity
Do you really think it matters? They still made fucking disgusting money and it's only taken every single thing star wars that disney has made for normies to stop eating the shit up. Disney hasn't hired a single person who truly gives even the most remote of fucks about the series and they knew they didn't need to. That's why Kathleen Kennedy said that they didn't have any movies, books, comics, games, etc. to build the new sequels off of. Even if they didn't want to adapt EU content directly they had decades upon decades worth of shit to at least steal from. They didn't bother and just got talentless fuckwits to butcher the series and it worked since normies just look at the flashy lights and hear the epic music that tells them how to feel just eat it up.
I would argue that some of it came from Foundation.
>Similarly Star Wars has been rewritten so that clone troopers were never "just following orders", they were mindfucked by an actual chip;
God I hate The Clone Wars and Disney so much.
Same, its the ship for the man with excellent taste.
To be fair, the brain chip thing was from when George was still in charge. Disney star wars still sucks though.
Also, nice digits.
>the brain chip thing was from when George was still in charge
we know
at that point George was just "eh fuck it" and snorting blow off the tits of hookers dressed like Slave Leia in Skywalker Ranch, or whatever he does, while letting Filoni write his own fanfiction
I could believe that George just decided that on a whim. Most of his creative decisions in star wars strike me as though they originated with him just saying "wouldn't it be cool if...". Thats how you get Jango Fett being the donor for the clones, or Anakin creating C-3po.
I know of a few stories of George fucking up various Lucas Arts projects because he just waltzed in and started making incredibly disruptive creative decisions.
>Similarly Star Wars has been rewritten so that clone troopers were never "just following orders", they were mindfucked by an actual chip; the Jedi way is bad and you shouldn't practice self-restraint, you should follow your heart's desire and "save the ones we love"; also Vader didn't defeat Palpatine, Rey did
>God I hate The Clone Wars and Disney so much.
In the original canon, and yes this was canon, the clones were genetically bred to follow the order, and a lot of them didn't want to do it, but did so anyway.
This caused a giant clone civil war on the clone production planet where the clone army basically fought itself, and the emperor deemed all clones of one man to be way too dangerous since they were too monogenous that a rogue idea could be adopted widely and lead to rebellion. This led to them making more alternative clones, and rotating in actual hired soldiers which explained the drop in quality for the empire's troops.
>In the original canon, and yes this was canon
I know.
I was there, anon.
From AOTC, the comics, the novels, the games, the Tartakovsky shorts, to ROTS.
>the Tartakovsky shorts
the most kino shorts. I still don't get how they're not canon, that's how Grevious got his wheeze, and also DIRGE, who at least is still alive in the new canon and cannonically hundreds if not thousands of years old.
They also made the HK droids canon, which....I don't know what that means.
>I still don't get how they're not canon
They are?
They're not, somehow, go figure.
The clone wars show has grievous with a raspy cough and acting like a bumbling klutz well before the kidnapping of palpatine, so arguably it could be viewed as a retcon
>This caused a giant clone civil war on the clone production planet where the clone army basically fought itself,
Are you talking about the Kamino Uprising? That was because the Kaminoan knew the empire was going to fuck them over so they started breeding a clone army that was loyal to them. The empire caught wind of it and sent their army to kill them all, which is what happened and why the clone program was shut down.
Bad Batch robbed of us this, but on the other hand, it made a lot more sense that the Empire would immediately work to end the clone program since it would otherwise give the Kaminoians incredible leverage and make them a power rival to Sheev and how expensive the program was to keep up. Things the EU never got around to addressing.
>Are you talking about the Kamino Uprising? That was because the Kaminoan knew the empire was going to fuck them over so they started breeding a clone army that was loyal to them. The empire caught wind of it and sent their army to kill them all, which is what happened and why the clone program was shut down.
Yeah, that but it was both. A lot of the clones didn't like what they did, but had ot do it anyways. The chips were gay and I feel robbed the clones of their agency a bit. Maybe it was for the best since it was basically the same thing in the end, and the clone wars series canonized the republic commando game.
>Maybe it had something to do with Disney not wanting to even bother getting permission from the authors
That is not how any of this works at all.
they didn't want to pay royalties, and also do their "own thing" ripping off bits and pieces.
>they didn't want to pay royalties
Stop repeating this fucking nonsense
Frankly I'm glad they shitcanned the EU at this point, not because le EU was always bad, but because they can't ruin the good parts anymore. Disney would be incapable of adapting an EU storyline without turning it into extremely pozzed nonsense.
Well, Episode 9 did end up being an exceptionally retarded adaptation of Dark Empire.
It was reportedly in the plans of LucasFilms to do so before the Disney acquisition, but rather than "LMAO everything new" that Disney did, they were going to do a review process of "this is canon, this is not" to smooth out things like there being 4 books, 3 comics, etc all claiming to be the true story on how given things went down like the stealing of the death star plans or that bounty hunter argument at the start of Episode V. They were also going to recalc the ship capabilities to something more reasonable because those were inflated due to Star Trek beef. Probably would have included edits in the recanonized ones so that all them were cohesive.
Essentially, Justinian Reforms so there's less but it is all of high and cohesive quality. That was thrown out the window by the mouse.
>Holy shit I'm impressed. I always thought they should just turn the Star Wars EU books into movies as they would've made fucking bank and this video just confirms how good it would have been.
Literally all of the new canon is bastardized old EU. Rey is a shit version of Jaina Solo, Kylo is a shit version of her brother. The only things that are remotely good are the disney plus shit, and most of that is in Mando/book of Boba.
Honestly, they would be better off tossing the sequel trilogy or retconning it somehow with how shit it was. I don't know how they hired the writers they did, but it was complete shit tier.
Thrawn is teased in Mando season 3 even. So he's gonna be a thing.
Kylo even looks like Jacen for fucks sake
I'm honestly surprised that they basically just wrote it as they went along. If anyone competent was heading the project, then the overall plot of the new trilogy would have been set in stone before even starting filming for the first movie. Obviously the fine details of the scripts would have to be written over time, but the core plot points should have been defined. Instead it was some bullshit mishmash where it was obvious that people weren't communicating on the plot between films, and it honestly felt like several people involved simply had axes to grind against the franchise.
That's always been a weird complaint to me because the OT wasn't written like that either. Also TLJ was being written while TFA was still in production, with only RoS having issues because of Trevorrow's script being rejected. The real problem with the ST is that it starts with a toothless rehash that is followed by Rian flipping the game board while screaming "THIS AIN'T YOUR DADDY'S STAR WARS!" and capped off by Abrams trying to desperately trying to ignore Rian by reassuring everyone that it is, in fact, their daddy's Star Wars.
The original trilogy grew into being a trilogy, so ANH was written to stand alone since there was no knowing if future films would ever exist. Then Lucas was able to just kind of grow from there as it proved successful. But when you start a project where you fully intend to create a trilogy from square 1, then it helps to do some planning to decide what you want to fucking accomplish over the course of all 3 films. Or if you're going to wing it, at least hire an autist that cares about the setting instead of ones that want to desecrate it.
Because the EU was full of shit and considering the sheer interconnectivity due to EU autism you'd need massive changes anyways to excise it while keeping the good parts.
SW shields have never been all encompassing. Plus given all the various canon and EU tech you can make an argument that hyperspace ramming is a highly effective but highly situational and easily countered tactic so doesn't get seen much. The film main issue is that the handwave didn't even bother to give a pretense of why it wouldn't work a second time.
>Because the EU was full of shit and considering the sheer interconnectivity due to EU autism you'd need massive changes anyways to excise it while keeping the good parts.
There was a ton of good shit, with solid ideas that they just shitcanned and replaced with objectivelyt worse tripe. It would've been much easier to get a seasoned script writer, and an editor to grab some of the most well regarded stories and adapt them better for teh silver screen.
Instead we got short round incel girl, DEY FLY NOW?!?!?, palpatine has returned, and many more garbage ideas that were just EU stories but several times worse.
>And yes, for the record I know that for every good EU book there was almost equally a horrible one too, such as the fucking zombie stormtroopers book with Han and Chewie.
that was good tho.
I remember reading it as an audio drama. I liked it
A treasure trove of interconnected videogame, cartoon, comic and books full of stories to pull from. All rendered useless as far as nuwarz is concerned
It's a damn shame but there is a simple reason why?
Disney spent 4 billion on Star Wars and they werent about to pay royalties to Timothy Zahn, Micheal Stackpole and Kevin Anderson no matter how good their stories or beloved their characters were.
While I don't pay for star wars content anymore as a direct result of the Thrawn trilogy not getting adapted as 7, 8 and 9 at least Thrawn is back in the canon. That fact alone means they know they fucked up. The first new thrawn book that introduces him and how he came to join the empire was actually pretty good. Probably because it was written by Zahn.
>Thrawn trilogy
Overrated imo, he was too much of a fedora tipper.
Yeah the whole “I use their art to defeat them,” thing was cool as a kid, but now looking back it’s super cheesy. Still, they could have taken some liberty with the adaptation and figured it out
>Does a giant capital spaceship with maxxed out armor and shield make tactical sense???
siege ship for bombarding enemies who can't shoot back
The bellator makes me hard because it’s just big enough to fuck up anyone in a fight but not big enough to be insane in size
its probably faster than the usual SSD too
someone post the greentext about that max-size star destroyer that has its own death star cannon
where the ship is so large it takes almost a week by train to get from end of the ship to the other and gang warfare breaks out across different regions of the vessel
>... both our engineering crew and ground forces complements have built tent cities within their own sections
lost. involuntarily laughed immediately
Makes almost no sense whatsoever. Perfect space weapon would be relativistic tungsten drone-spheres launched from an even larger spherical carrier ship. Make 'em as small, stealthy and fast as possible. But that doesn't follow the rule of cool.
Depends on the enemy:
>rebel alliance using mostly small fighters
Very ineffective.
>yuuzhan vong using super large capital ships
Not the worst idea
>Depends on the enemy:
>rebel alliance using mostly small fighters
>Very ineffective.
efficiency goes up if you count the use as troop ships for occupation
First rule of space operas is always assume the universe is still running on Age of Sail tactics for ship to ship warfare
In that case yes, a big fuckoff ship with lots of armor and guns makes perfect sense
Star wars was a WW2 movie not age of sail
>mfw your average destroyer can broadside the opposition's armored command battleship and win it
venators are just that good.
The Allegiance-class is my favourite. Yeah I know it doesn't have a fighter complement so it's not particularly versatile, but it's perfect for massive fleet engagements.
Excellent taste, also mine
I like them alot, but in Empire at War and another modded 4X RTS that I've played their role tends to be a lame duck. For example:
>space opera theater-wide operations
>fleet of 30-40 ISDs, 1-5 Allegiance-class as flagships/heavy gun line + minor support ships are responsible for assaulting/patrolling a given area of space
>in big fleet engagements, the enemy tends to focus on the big gun ships so despite their armor they tend to have lower survivability than the ISDs
>after repeated engagements (3-4 battles) these heavier cruisers tend to fall to attrition while there are plenty of ISDs left
>the area still needs patrolled, and with an entire galaxy to deal with you don't always fight with the navy you want but the navy you have
tl:dr
>I think its better to just spam ISDs since the Allegiance doesn't offer a big enough improvement over the ISD to be worthwhile and it's too small to work as a proper dreadnought
I'd argue that their main purpose is to push a line of battle slightly over the edge in terms of firepower; it's more a "decisive battle" type of ship that's supposed to go up against capital ship-heavy enemy fleets in a single cataclysmic engagement that determines the fate of the war rather than something that you use in lengthy campaigns with multiple inconclusive engagements that usually require more speed and tactical flexibility. Basically it's the Empire's equivalent of the Yamato-class.
In old SW lore it would have made some sense since they have enormous shields along with armor, but nu lore says that if you throw enough debris at hyperspace speeds at and object, at least one is bound to hit it. I do like how that one event probably just made to make audiences say WOOOW in a movie theater basically ruined the entire plot for every star wars movie from now on
>Master Kenobi, the Death Star is going to destroy us, what are we going to do
>ALLAHUAKBAR
It would have been better if it just made a flashbang/EMP effect tht didn't destroy the ships outright but put them out of commission long enough for the resistance to escape. Hyperspace ram still effectively ruins stra wars because they could now just develop hyperspace suicide drones like how we have suicide drone now
It's dumb that for decades the lore had expanded the setting and gone over how hyperspace was this alternate dimension that loosely correlates to real-space but where you can cross distances faster. That crossing gravity wells was dangerous to you in hyperspace but harmless to the stuff in real-space.
Then this shit happened.
They tried to backtrack in the next movie saying it was a one in a million chance it would work only to show it working again as a background scene.
Depends. How big is your navy? If it is your only ship or even represents 10% of the tonnage you have, it doesn't matter in the slightest because the ship is too valuable to lose, so it is too valuable to be used.
>Not making FTL weapons to destroy enemies from distances of hundreds of LY away
>Not building oversized EM cannons to guarantee one shot kills
The Only Empire that does futuristic space combat right was the Humankind Empire of Abh.
They made some in the EU. There was the Galaxy Gun which basically was the Gustav Gun in space with shells that would use a hyperdrive to traverse the distance to the target world before existing hyperspace at the last moment. There also was the Sun Crusher, which technically doesn't have interstellar range but the thing was bullshit, virtually undeadable, and could just jump into the system and detonate a star.
Those were honestly from the really shitty period of the EU. With shit like one of Palpatine's clones showing up with an evil clone of Luke named Luuke.
I didn't mind the Palpatine clone hopping in Dark Empire. It also helps that a third of Dark Empire just focuses on Wedge and Lando trying to win a 3+ way space war while Luke does his Jedi shit and Han and Leia do space underworld shit. Cam Kennedy draws some great battle art and regularly introduced new ship and robot types with his background scripples. Basically where the Bellator comes from. As a kid who was also mostly into the War part of Star Wars, Dark Empire was the shit. Before I could read I just looked at pictures of huge battles.
I'm mindful of the founding of the US Navy. In the late 1700's it broke down into two camps. One side wanted a Navy (and a standing Army) while the other didn't want anything at all thinking you'd just end up with England under a different flag.
Shortening the story up a lot, one Administration got authorization for six frigates and the next said fuck that we're paying off the national debt and coastal defense will be handled by hundreds of small sloops armed with a single gun.
Eventually the sloops were tried and proved to be worse than useless as men were killed and guns lost to absolutely zero effect. Well, beyond giving the jack tars some gunnery practice I guess. I don't think any of those sloops exist now. Meanwhile, we still have one of the Six with a storied battle history.
It's really all about how much damage you can do with the weaponry of the time. In the 1700's you needed big ships, because big ships carried lots of guns, which on their own were inaccurate and didn't do much damage for their size. Fast forward to the modern era where it only takes one or a few missiles to cripple a ship. As other anons pointed out already, it's all about defensive vs offensive capabilities - if future defenses outstrip the damage potential of weapons then ships will be able to safely grow into the sci-fi cap ship sizes we enjoy. If on the other hand it's simply too easy to do a lot of damage with relatively little effort, then (military, there are plenty of civilian/peaceful uses for big) ships will never get large.
No, and only because you can't rule an empire with a single battleship. The frigates and cruisers and other workhorses that show the flag and can actually patrol the empire are most important. Close second is to have mobile battlefleet that can quickly crush anything found by those patrols.
Starkiller base, deathstar, etc are weapons of terror because their military practically is poor.
The death star is like a nuclear bomb. It makes sense if you have a powerful enemy state to threaten with it. It doesn't make sense for terrorizing a decentralized alliance of rebel cells.
They're probably more efficient than smaller crafts and make more sense for projecting power across the galaxy
Assuming it's a scenario like mass effect, where ships engage at range using massive railguns at extreme distances. There's also shields, which basically means bigger ship = bigger engine = guns + bigger shields=win. This is due to fighters lacking sufficient punch to take on dreadnoughts
On the other side was something like the UNSC before they met the covenant, sure they had MAC cannons, but their primary doctrine was focused around fighters, because the defensive capabilities was outmatched by the offense of fighters
What do you guys think of the modernized AT-TEs the empire has been deploying to some of the hotter outer rim worlds?
retarded.
its like some sort of fucked up stolen cope camo nets half assedly draped on it at random, with what looks like a cope cage on the front.
nevermind the stupid smoke launchers.
did those always have what looks like a stolen unarmored air conditioner unit on the side?
I think that copula gun is gonna block the main cannon from having much rotation and is retarded.
Not like they'd be able to hit anything anyways. Clearly they're pinning their hopes on the dual fixed mount rotary cannons.
thats a stryker MGS's turret photoshopped on. the copula and the main gun are one piece that rotates together.
how many washing droids did they steal to up armor that?
xaxaxa clonepiggies are deploying cope cages on their AT-TEs
let me guess, Geonosis was a feint?
CIS lost both geonosis and the war you dumb clankmoron
God i hate Star Wars ships so fucking much.
They dont make sense, like at all.
Every other sci-fi setting ever made at least attempted to make some sense with their ships and space combat.
But Star Wars? whoa boy, they just do whatever the fuck they want and fits the situation.
>9000 mile huge motherfucking dreadnought
>1 x-wing blows it up
>apparently, x-wing pew-pew lazors can now blow half a mile holes in reinforced dreadnought armor
Galactica flak screens give ma hard-on to this day, it actually looked like a god damn unbreachable wall of fire.
Star Wars should have at least double that, as in 90% of the fucking ships should be anti-fighter.
retarded ass setting.
Remember: star wars is fantasy, not scifi
Reminder that disneymorony isn't canon ;^)
agreed
how would (You) improve the droid army?
clonemuttoids need not apply.
less biped droids
more shit like spider-, crabdroids and droidekas
more autonomous commerce raiders
scrap all of the b1s. they aren't worth the metal that they're made out of.
Redirect all B1 production to Droid dekka(?)
those were built on another planet by an alien race that traded them for raw meat
And noone in the confederacy was smart enough to try and reverse engineer them or build something similar at least?
I wouldn't change them, but I'd equip the Separatist Army with neutron bombs. Lots of them.
Relegate B1s to occupation/garrison duty and go all-in on B2 production for frontline use. Frankly not much needs to be done to get them to 'win' since in a vacuum without Sheev playing both sides they were going to roll over the Republic through sheer industrial might before it could fully mobilize.
Aquire more tanks and commando droids
Create a droid that can autopilot a ship and do high level hyperdrive calculations (ship doesn’t have to be that big, maybe twice the size of vulture droid) and use it to make the jump to light speed into a planet, ala the Holdo maneuver. Using this weapon I proceed to destroy a single Republic planet and threaten to destroy many more if the CIS isn’t allowed freedom. The ensuing intergalactic gold war isn’t my problem
Ships like this are built purely for the propaganda of fear and intimidation. Who's gonna want to go against a power with a ship big enough to eclipse the sun *and* fuck the planet below it?
In Star Wars, no.
Anything other than hyperspace ramming drones is utterly obsolete for any space battle.
hyperspace ramming is simply something that must be dispelled, it undermines the operation of the extant IP universe, was a mistake to bring it into being, and must be destroyed.
rebels HATE them!
Kneel fightershits
I remember finding that book in my local library.
so fucking cool.
Colicoids should have been given exclusive priority in producing their droids. Only the B2s and BX Commando series droids were any good from Bacta
you need some meat to throw into the grinder though. B1s have their purpose
also decent enough for patrols in occupied territory
B2s are that meat even if more costly. B1s are just too fragile and probably less cost effective in how much for example 10 of those achieve compared to a single B2.
But yes, they could cycle old B1s out for backline duty while B2s do the fighting
Things like this or more droidekas were never going to happen for the simple reason of the Sheevster and his lackeys being behind everything. He wanted to bruise the republic enough for the normies to support him becoming emperor, not completely topple it.
And even if some elements of the confederacy decided to innovate and produce more out of their own volition he would find out and "leak" the information of the factories and labs to the republic
>shut it cishiter, your droids ain't worth nothi-AACK!
>my ancestor 🙂
Prequels fucking suck, sequels fucking suck, only good Star Wars content is OT and EU that was written before Episode 1: The Phantom Menace was released
Ok there Reddit Letter Media.
except he's right
Gilad Pellaeon is probably still my favorite character out of the entire franchise. Just a regular boomer veteran captain trying to do what he can with whatever the fuck remains out of empire every time some retard tries to wrangle it
Gilad Pellaeon was based as fuck and now that disney featured him in their "canon" i dread how they will treat my favorite Star Wars geezer
>NEW Disney+ Ashoka character Pellaeon is a powerful figure for genderqueer representation
>it's a good thing
I hate everything about this, specifically how likely it is to happen and all the retards will clap for it. That or him being completely emasculated and humiliated by some stronk independent female officer who is better than the old evil white dude
Fuck I hate this
Kreia was right about everything.
No. Because the movies show that you can just fly into one at warp speed. Easy then, build out smaller automated vessels with the sole intent of using them as projectiles.
Comfy thread
Personally I was proud to serve in the Old Man's fleet. Never was there a finer Imperial.