If it's got a decent filter in it, then yes it's doing something to clean the air. If it's one of those things that claim to purify the air by ionizing it, then it's complete bullshit.
Well to remove chemicals you need a carbon filter in addition to the HEPA/particulate filter, but most commercial machines are built for this; lots even have the filter replacements come together as a single part. Downside of that is, in most settings, carbon filters have a much shorter effective service life than particulate.
gay...just need a strong fan and some merv14s
MERV/HVAC filters are only particulate, and can be appropriate but there's tradeoffs. Pros are lower MERV levels (like 13/14, the usual HVAC MERV 11 stuff is for protecting the machines, bullshit for protecting people) will usually have a lower pressure drop = more air passes through per unit of time = more clean air gets delivered, even if each pass through has a lower filtration efficiency. Clean Air Delivery Rate/CADR = volume of air per time (usually cfm or m^3/s) * filtration efficiency, like 70% for MERV 13 and upper 90s for stuff sold as HEPA by reliable companies (it's supposed to be 99.97% or something like that, might be confusing the exact digits with the standard for 100-rated respirators.)
The other thing is nearly all MERV filters rely in part on electrostatic effects for part of their filtration effiency, which moisture, some smoke, etc will attenuate over time. Nearly all HEPA filters are made of fiberglass, and maintain the same filtration efficiency across their service life, you only need to replace them when they get too full of gunk for good airflow.
Anything 0.3 micrometers or larger.
This is a myth, filtration efficiency is spec'd at .3 because that's the size filters are *least* efficient at. Larger and smaller particles – including much, much smaller ones – will be captured at higher efficiency than spec. Why? Because physics is weird.
Any particular device may or may not work or work effectively, and there are certainly claims made that don't hold up to scrutiny, especially as regards direct health benefits of breathing ionized air...
but ionization as a method or valuable component of air purification is a well established principle and practice; only shills invested in selling competing technology (or morons) dismiss it out of hand.
>Particulate matter (PM) is a major air pollutant that affects human health. Experimental data showed that NAIs could be used to high-efficiently remove PM.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213340/
>Ionizing air affects influenza virus infectivity and prevents airborne-transmission
Ionization has lots of bad tradeoffs and there's a reason no independent HVAC/filtration experts recommend it for routine human occupied space filtration.
LOL, it's not a single technology or method; "driving" has lots of bad tradeoffs but that doesn't mean any partucular vehicle isn't worth using or displays every potential " bad tradeoff" in use. Lame shill is lame.
>there's a reason no independent HVAC/filtration experts recommend it for routine human occupied space filtration.
More shill bull crap that only proves the original point- "independant" sounds important until you realize that all you are saying is that "experts" who don't have any direct experience with developing or installing the technology (and sell something else) are the most likely to say that it doesn't work.
Conversely, the input and experience of HVAC experts who *do* sell and service ionization technology is deemed irrelevant or worse because they don't meet your "independent" qualification.
It's like saying flying has too many "bad tradeoffs" to be worthy of consideration and then preemptively declaring any input from pilots, aeronautical engineers and manufacturers to be meaningless because they aren't "independent" of that industry.
>NPBI technology is not corona discharge ionization. NPBI does not produce ozone or other harmful byproducts and the company providing the pictures for this article is certified by UL 2998 and UL 867 as an ozone and byproduct free technology... The production of unwanted byproducts, including ozone, associated with corona discharge ionization air cleaners are avoided when using NPBI. The newer NPBI technology should NOT be associated with corona discharge ionization. This should be made clear to all, especially the readers of the ASHRAE Journal. The ASHRAE Journal’s peer review process clearly failed for this article and experts in the ionization industry were apparently not consulted prior to publishing.
>just a gimmick? >>> > Anonymous 01/31/24(Wed)14:19:15 No.2751654▶
Any particular device may or may not work or work effectively, and there are certainly claims made that don't hold up to scrutiny, especially as regards direct health benefits of breathing ionized air...
but ionization as a method or valuable component of air purification is a well established principle and practice; only shills invested in selling competing technology (or morons) dismiss it out of hand.
>Particulate matter (PM) is a major air pollutant that affects human health. Experimental data showed that NAIs could be used to high-efficiently remove PM.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213340/
>Ionizing air affects influenza virus infectivity and prevents airborne-transmission
Ionizing air purifiers do work, but the problem is that they put a positive charge on dust particles in the air which then are attracted to negatively charged objects where they fall out of the air, leaving everything coated in fricking dust.
just avoid ionizing bullshit entirely, the ozone will give you lung cancer
>
https://i.imgur.com/VMWqMyh.jpg
Do retail air purifiers actually work are they just a gimmick? (OP) >If it's got a decent filter in it, then yes it's doing something to clean the air. If it's one of thos
Don't buy any of the round ones. They use proprietary filters that are far more expensive. Ones with rectangular filters are easier to get aftermarket or even bulk custom filters made for and are cheaper to own/use.
They won't do shit if you aren't also replacing your furnace filter regularly.
>They won't do shit if you aren't also replacing your furnace filter regularly.
logic fail. furnace filters do little to clean the air. and how about the summer time.
the ac runs through the same filter, unless you have ductless minisplits or window units. furnace in this scenario is an air handler for the coil & condenser.
Any particular device may or may not work or work effectively, and there are certainly claims made that don't hold up to scrutiny, especially as regards direct health benefits of breathing ionized air...
but ionization as a method or valuable component of air purification is a well established principle and practice; only shills invested in selling competing technology (or morons) dismiss it out of hand.
>Particulate matter (PM) is a major air pollutant that affects human health. Experimental data showed that NAIs could be used to high-efficiently remove PM.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213340/
>Ionizing air affects influenza virus infectivity and prevents airborne-transmission
Ionizing air purifiers do work, but the problem is that they put a positive charge on dust particles in the air which then are attracted to negatively charged objects where they fall out of the air, leaving everything coated in fricking dust.
I've got a drum fan like your pic. Somebody gave it to me, but it didn't have a filter. The filters are more costly than the fan. So I simply coiled a heavy cotton town inside the filter compartment at the bottom. After a month that towel is choked with dust.
Well a fan is one of the simplest devices known to man, and a HEPA filter is very much not. That said they're still price gouging the shit out of consumers.
Yeah mine has been chugging alone for a few years now and i notice quite quickly when there's a fresh filter in since my lungs start itching less, in a dusty as hell room it might be a waste without first cleaning probably though since it will just clog up on dust you kick up, like it does for me..
These units don't move enough air to be of much use. Make your own with a filter and a powerful fan. Can make it smart with a micro controller and a BME680
If you are american, get a box fan and strap a hepa filter on it. It doesn't even have to be hepa, lower grade filters have better air flow and filter 98% of crap. For more efficiency and to prevent the fan bearing from overheating, build a Corsi-Rosenthal box. Check youtube for instructions.
To answer your question, yeah they work. They're a godsent in allergy season
Got it built.... way better than the single 5in filter. Need to put the cardboard cover on the fan and start practicing how I'm going to explain it to women.
We have several in our house and I clean the filters a couple times a month and they're always full of dust and dog hair. They're definitely doing something
They are good, as long as it’s no more than a fan and a filter. Good home chemistry is a real thing and anything that claims to kill, neutralize etc. is fuelling chemical reactions which is not desirable.
Depends on your definition of 'actually work'. They filter the air, but the volume of air they work is pretty small. Probably fine for typical household use, but if you have a specific dust hazard concern you need da big bois like they use in woodworking shops. The unit I use has three filters (5 micron, 1 micron, .3 micron) and moves 1500 CFM. It's also far too loud for in a typical home.
Do they help with smells or is it just for dust? My building gets smelly whenever anyone is smoking weed inside, would be nice to flip this on and freshen up the air
I have a one that has a sensor and increases the fan speed when more particulate matter is in the air. If you smoke weed or even just vape the light on it goes from blue to red and the fan goes nuts. It helps a bit with the smell but with smoking it only can do so much. With vaping it helps more noticeably
I got one some years ago, and it's been incredibly useful. I've had one running constantly in my work room, and there's less dust landing on every surface than in the barely used storage.
Photocatalytic air cleaner. Before you say muh ozone no, go look up what it is. UVC bombards TiO2 and creates a shortlived particle that destroys VOC's.
A particulate air cleaner (HEPA) and a DIY PCAC and you've got spring air.
Buy a single or dual lamp UVC duct light. These are short fluorescent lights. Short enough that most air cleaners you pick up from thrift without a good filter, should be able to have the old filter removed, and use the duct template to cut the holes, or figure out another way to mount it.
Once the fitment is good, temporarily remove the lamp.
Take it apart. May not be necessary, as the filter exchange process usually gives you the access you need. Tape off anything that isn't in the filter/light area. Like the internal motor blower housing. Spray the interior with 3M 90, then powder it with TiO2. Let it cure, then tap out the excess. White dust will be everywhere, unless you do a decent job tapping it out. It's used as a pigment, even in food. Paint, etc.
Reinstall the lamp. Turn on the lamp and then the air cleaner. You will immediately notice an improvement in smells that will blow you away.
E.G. I've used one of these to knock the smell out of a nail parlor, within 10-15 minutes. It went from that horrible chemical smell, to a spring breeze.
There is no ozone or other harmful effects. Read the post completely. Go do your own research before posting a reddit-level response.
I kinda want to make an ionising air filter that never needs replacing, so I can shove it in my roof and forget about it. The positively charged road dust and pollen would be attracted to a deliberately negatively charged plate, then I could have water periodically flush over that plate. Especially if I can figure out a reliable way of washing it based on when it's getting full of dust. May also need to produce additional ozone to decompose any funky VOCs, assuming I could then decompose most of the ozone before it gets into a living compartment, not sure what could catalyse that at room temperature. Maybe a UVC chamber would be a better idea, with LEDs these days it wouldn't eat as much power as if I had to use a mercury lamp.
I'd like to see a teardown of an industrial ionising filter unit, to see what kind of geometry they use.
Can't imagine how clogged a HEPA filter gets if there are wildfires nearby, thankfully I don't live in Melborne or California.
Oh, hadn't heard of that TiO2 interaction. Very cool, sounds superior to ozone in all but the most extreme cases. >PCAC
What does that stand for?
> PCAC
I made it up. Photo Catalytic Air Cleaner. Bears no resemblance.
Do either of you read for comprehension? Or just wait for the letters to leap off the page and beat you around the head?
>Buy a single or dual lamp UVC duct light.
Looking to build up a home bio lab here at some point, would these be strong enough to also help sterilize my work area?
I kinda want to make an ionising air filter that never needs replacing, so I can shove it in my roof and forget about it. The positively charged road dust and pollen would be attracted to a deliberately negatively charged plate, then I could have water periodically flush over that plate. Especially if I can figure out a reliable way of washing it based on when it's getting full of dust. May also need to produce additional ozone to decompose any funky VOCs, assuming I could then decompose most of the ozone before it gets into a living compartment, not sure what could catalyse that at room temperature. Maybe a UVC chamber would be a better idea, with LEDs these days it wouldn't eat as much power as if I had to use a mercury lamp.
I'd like to see a teardown of an industrial ionising filter unit, to see what kind of geometry they use.
Can't imagine how clogged a HEPA filter gets if there are wildfires nearby, thankfully I don't live in Melborne or California.
Oh, hadn't heard of that TiO2 interaction. Very cool, sounds superior to ozone in all but the most extreme cases. >PCAC
What does that stand for?
>They won't do shit if you aren't also replacing your furnace filter regularly.
logic fail. furnace filters do little to clean the air. and how about the summer time.
'furnace filter' is a generic reference, and could strictly mean fiberglass mesh filters. They don't do anything. Only prevent larger objects from getting sucked in.
Or it could refer to a pleated polyester mesh filter with a MERV rating of 13.
The first has a 'rating' of 1. Out of 20. It's the only kind used in the US Miltary multi-man training barracks, and that's why there is such a huge mold problem in them. That in turn gets soldiers sick, giving them also environmental asthma and thus, brain damage when they go to run next morning. The mycotoxins attack their system, also, giving them a wide range of issues.
Been going on 30 years and no one has done anything about it. Don't clean the ducts, nothing. Makes the soldiers stupider (asthma+exercise=low body oxygen brain damage) and less healthy (mycotoxins).
I've got a drum fan like your pic. Somebody gave it to me, but it didn't have a filter. The filters are more costly than the fan. So I simply coiled a heavy cotton town inside the filter compartment at the bottom. After a month that towel is choked with dust.
Build the photocatalytic air cleaner out of it.
I'm allergic to dust or dust mites along with having asthma
Iodine 46%. 1 drop a day. 10ml bottle from buyiodine. Put in water then chug it down. AM, every morning. Will cure asthma. I've personally walked many people through it. Attacks stopped.
A true physician is concerned with cause and cure. A doctor is someone who makes something natural, unnatural, and limits his myopic view to the acute symptom. Basically a shill for patent pharma. The bromine and fluorine in your inhalers make the issue WORSE over time.
How fine should this TiO2 powder be anyhow? Assuming the reactive layer remains on the surface of the powder coating, finer stuff would have more surface area and would interact better. But might be worse for cleaning or being hazardous. Would normal TiO2 pigmented paint work after sanding it, I wonder?
What kind of fan should i get for the absolute most quiet operation? I'm thinking either:
>HVAC fan like Papst or Ziehl-Abegg, slowed down with a pwm controller
>silenced bathroom/kitchen extractor fan
>huge bank of ~50 PC case fans
I think in theory a big fan can move the same amount of air quieter than a bunch of smaller fans, but in practice the design of the blades and housing of silent PC fans will prove better. Some youtuber has probably done a video on the topic.
I had the same question. Michael's (big box hobby store) has a high-Ti white paint I considered. I know the powder works, and I wouldn't want an enamel or coating covering up the TiO2. I don't spray anything over the TiO2 after coating. And I know that works.
As far as 'how fine' I used ordinary pigment powder. Ebay and paint stores should have it.
If your spray adhesive and application of TiO2 is any good, it should not be hazardous. Except for an inhalation hazard if you're no good at applying the adhesive then the powder. Tapping the sides will release loose powder.
Cleaning? You mean as in accumulated dust? If you have a HEPA air cleaner in the same room, as I specified, you shouldn't ever have to clean the photocatalytic air cleaner. It's strictly for VOC's, which is what HEPA sucks at.
I've had a Xiaomi Mi Air Purifier C3 for a few years now, and I think it does noticeably reduce the amount of dust in the air and on surfaces.
I have it set to run on auto most of the time, where it'll run quietly at low rpm and only ramp up when it detects increased particulate matter such as when I'm cooking. But I do have it set to run full blast for 3 hours on weekdays when I'm at work, cause it filters out particulate matter smaller than it detects, so leaving it to only auto is a waste of potential.
I will say though, don't get the one I got, it has only two buttons and anything beyond on/off and auto/full blast requires a fricking app, that includes the timer settings. I only got it cause it was a gift.
Also the filters are expensive, but since absolute top filter performance is not mission critical in any way, I just take it out to the shop to vacuum and blow compressed air through it in reverse, reset the purifier to make it think I've put in a new filter and it stops bugging me about it and works just as well as a new one as far as I can tell.
the wikipedia talk page exposes why its a dogshit encyclopedia >multiple people say design is much older >please cite sources >here is a source, the 'inventors' blog where he says he based his design on earlier designs >we dont accept blogs as sources >here are multiple magazine articles for designs >well i cant be bothered renaming the article
LOL
NO non of these filters work because the fan is substantially undersized to agitate air or premote flow in the majority of the space.
dust settles on the other side of the room and you breathe it in when you kick it up by walking around. the fan cant suck it from across the room before you breathe it in.
if you live next to a plastic melting factory or own a 3d printer it might be better than nothing.
if you run a wood shop its useful because of the sheer density of particuate in the air means it does something. if you vaccuum your house once a quarter this wont do much.
bissel is probably decent but too small imho.
depends on the brand and maker. would suck to buy one and then the filters are no longer made for whatever reason. i have one like that and i just vacuum and wash the filter. i notice a difference, less sneezing. you get what you pay for. i regret not getting the Vornado when it was $99 (pre-2020) now it's much more. i think Vornado is good, i have a heater by them.
Unless you need something that is compact and/or looks pretty: Rosenthal box. Take large fan, tape a cube of furnace filters to it (not just one over the fan, using 4/5 reduces the flow restrictions to allow increased total flow), done.
Marketers like to wank over particle filtration rates, but all that means is how many passes are needed for a given air volume to scrub an absolute particle mass from it - i.e. filtration efficiency only affects required flow rate per unit time. Single-pass efficiency is important for PAPR or other masks, or for high ISO-class cleanrooms, but not for bulk room air filtration.
If it's got a decent filter in it, then yes it's doing something to clean the air. If it's one of those things that claim to purify the air by ionizing it, then it's complete bullshit.
so the ones with the HEPA filters actually remove dust and chemicals and shit?
>so the ones with the HEPA filters actually remove dust and chemicals and shit?
yes. all of them.
Well to remove chemicals you need a carbon filter in addition to the HEPA/particulate filter, but most commercial machines are built for this; lots even have the filter replacements come together as a single part. Downside of that is, in most settings, carbon filters have a much shorter effective service life than particulate.
MERV/HVAC filters are only particulate, and can be appropriate but there's tradeoffs. Pros are lower MERV levels (like 13/14, the usual HVAC MERV 11 stuff is for protecting the machines, bullshit for protecting people) will usually have a lower pressure drop = more air passes through per unit of time = more clean air gets delivered, even if each pass through has a lower filtration efficiency. Clean Air Delivery Rate/CADR = volume of air per time (usually cfm or m^3/s) * filtration efficiency, like 70% for MERV 13 and upper 90s for stuff sold as HEPA by reliable companies (it's supposed to be 99.97% or something like that, might be confusing the exact digits with the standard for 100-rated respirators.)
The other thing is nearly all MERV filters rely in part on electrostatic effects for part of their filtration effiency, which moisture, some smoke, etc will attenuate over time. Nearly all HEPA filters are made of fiberglass, and maintain the same filtration efficiency across their service life, you only need to replace them when they get too full of gunk for good airflow.
This is a myth, filtration efficiency is spec'd at .3 because that's the size filters are *least* efficient at. Larger and smaller particles – including much, much smaller ones – will be captured at higher efficiency than spec. Why? Because physics is weird.
Ionization has lots of bad tradeoffs and there's a reason no independent HVAC/filtration experts recommend it for routine human occupied space filtration.
>Ionization has lots of bad tradeoffs
LOL, it's not a single technology or method; "driving" has lots of bad tradeoffs but that doesn't mean any partucular vehicle isn't worth using or displays every potential " bad tradeoff" in use. Lame shill is lame.
>there's a reason no independent HVAC/filtration experts recommend it for routine human occupied space filtration.
More shill bull crap that only proves the original point- "independant" sounds important until you realize that all you are saying is that "experts" who don't have any direct experience with developing or installing the technology (and sell something else) are the most likely to say that it doesn't work.
Conversely, the input and experience of HVAC experts who *do* sell and service ionization technology is deemed irrelevant or worse because they don't meet your "independent" qualification.
It's like saying flying has too many "bad tradeoffs" to be worthy of consideration and then preemptively declaring any input from pilots, aeronautical engineers and manufacturers to be meaningless because they aren't "independent" of that industry.
>NPBI technology is not corona discharge ionization. NPBI does not produce ozone or other harmful byproducts and the company providing the pictures for this article is certified by UL 2998 and UL 867 as an ozone and byproduct free technology... The production of unwanted byproducts, including ozone, associated with corona discharge ionization air cleaners are avoided when using NPBI. The newer NPBI technology should NOT be associated with corona discharge ionization. This should be made clear to all, especially the readers of the ASHRAE Journal. The ASHRAE Journal’s peer review process clearly failed for this article and experts in the ionization industry were apparently not consulted prior to publishing.
https://hvacinsider.com/needlepoint-bi-polar-ionization-just-gets-better-and-better/
Anything 0.3 micrometers or larger.
>just a gimmick?
>>>
> Anonymous 01/31/24(Wed)14:19:15 No.2751654▶
but ionization as a method or valuable component of air purification is a well established principle and practice; only shills invested in selling competing technology (or morons) dismiss it out of hand.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3228-air-ionisers-wipe-out-hospital-infections/
Particles Removal by Negative ionic Air Purifier in Cleanroom
https://massless.info/images/9_AAQR-10-06-OA-0048_179-186.pdf
>Particulate matter (PM) is a major air pollutant that affects human health. Experimental data showed that NAIs could be used to high-efficiently remove PM.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213340/
>Ionizing air affects influenza virus infectivity and prevents airborne-transmission
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4477231/
>
Do retail air purifiers actually work are they just a gimmick? (OP)
>If it's got a decent filter in it, then yes it's doing something to clean the air. If it's one of thos
Don't buy any of the round ones. They use proprietary filters that are far more expensive. Ones with rectangular filters are easier to get aftermarket or even bulk custom filters made for and are cheaper to own/use.
They won't do shit if you aren't also replacing your furnace filter regularly.
>They won't do shit if you aren't also replacing your furnace filter regularly.
logic fail. furnace filters do little to clean the air. and how about the summer time.
the ac runs through the same filter, unless you have ductless minisplits or window units. furnace in this scenario is an air handler for the coil & condenser.
Any particular device may or may not work or work effectively, and there are certainly claims made that don't hold up to scrutiny, especially as regards direct health benefits of breathing ionized air...
but ionization as a method or valuable component of air purification is a well established principle and practice; only shills invested in selling competing technology (or morons) dismiss it out of hand.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3228-air-ionisers-wipe-out-hospital-infections/
Particles Removal by Negative ionic Air Purifier in Cleanroom
https://massless.info/images/9_AAQR-10-06-OA-0048_179-186.pdf
>Particulate matter (PM) is a major air pollutant that affects human health. Experimental data showed that NAIs could be used to high-efficiently remove PM.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213340/
>Ionizing air affects influenza virus infectivity and prevents airborne-transmission
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4477231/
Ionizing air purifiers do work, but the problem is that they put a positive charge on dust particles in the air which then are attracted to negatively charged objects where they fall out of the air, leaving everything coated in fricking dust.
just avoid ionizing bullshit entirely, the ozone will give you lung cancer
gay...just need a strong fan and some merv14s
I've got a drum fan like your pic. Somebody gave it to me, but it didn't have a filter. The filters are more costly than the fan. So I simply coiled a heavy cotton town inside the filter compartment at the bottom. After a month that towel is choked with dust.
Well a fan is one of the simplest devices known to man, and a HEPA filter is very much not. That said they're still price gouging the shit out of consumers.
Yeah mine has been chugging alone for a few years now and i notice quite quickly when there's a fresh filter in since my lungs start itching less, in a dusty as hell room it might be a waste without first cleaning probably though since it will just clog up on dust you kick up, like it does for me..
>lungs itch
What kind of bullshit is this?
I'm allergic to dust or dust mites along with having asthma
damn homie, you weak
your immune system is a lil b***h
These units don't move enough air to be of much use. Make your own with a filter and a powerful fan. Can make it smart with a micro controller and a BME680
If you are american, get a box fan and strap a hepa filter on it. It doesn't even have to be hepa, lower grade filters have better air flow and filter 98% of crap. For more efficiency and to prevent the fan bearing from overheating, build a Corsi-Rosenthal box. Check youtube for instructions.
To answer your question, yeah they work. They're a godsent in allergy season
I use a box fan with a MERV14 filter and it's great for the vast majority of shit I need to deal with. Plus it costs nothing.
>Rosenthal
sounds israeli, no thanks
Anon it's a fricking fan blowing into an air filter calm your breasts about the israelites
you know for a fact that fricker didn't invent it...and i will not acknowledge anyone that humors the idea by using that name
>tape four filters together and put a fan on top
OY VEY I INVENTED IT
Jews just like to also their name on a good idea and then promote themselves endlessly. Look up the story of Dr Heimlich and his son
Works but loud. I wonder how effective it is with out a box. Taped a 5in filter even it has some air pushing out the wrong way.
Going to try that Corsi box upgrade
Got it built.... way better than the single 5in filter. Need to put the cardboard cover on the fan and start practicing how I'm going to explain it to women.
We have several in our house and I clean the filters a couple times a month and they're always full of dust and dog hair. They're definitely doing something
They are good, as long as it’s no more than a fan and a filter. Good home chemistry is a real thing and anything that claims to kill, neutralize etc. is fuelling chemical reactions which is not desirable.
bumping for interest. What is a high quality brand?
Idk but don't put a blueair in your bedroom if you want to ever sleep. Loud AF and the lights can't be turned off.
Depends on your definition of 'actually work'. They filter the air, but the volume of air they work is pretty small. Probably fine for typical household use, but if you have a specific dust hazard concern you need da big bois like they use in woodworking shops. The unit I use has three filters (5 micron, 1 micron, .3 micron) and moves 1500 CFM. It's also far too loud for in a typical home.
Do they help with smells or is it just for dust? My building gets smelly whenever anyone is smoking weed inside, would be nice to flip this on and freshen up the air
I have a one that has a sensor and increases the fan speed when more particulate matter is in the air. If you smoke weed or even just vape the light on it goes from blue to red and the fan goes nuts. It helps a bit with the smell but with smoking it only can do so much. With vaping it helps more noticeably
Just get some plants.
I got one some years ago, and it's been incredibly useful. I've had one running constantly in my work room, and there's less dust landing on every surface than in the barely used storage.
No
I have one and it just made the area around it super dusty and theres nothing in the filter when I check
its pretty decent one too
Gimmick unless you live in a disgusting shithole. I use mine for white noise when I sleep, that's about the extent of its usefulness.
That is one expensive white noise machine to run. Is electricity dirt cheap where you live?
I don't know what kind he has, but my xiaomi uses less than 1kwh/day. Even with expensive electricity thats not exactly a lot.
>unless you live in a disgusting shithole
where do you think you are?
Photocatalytic air cleaner. Before you say muh ozone no, go look up what it is. UVC bombards TiO2 and creates a shortlived particle that destroys VOC's.
A particulate air cleaner (HEPA) and a DIY PCAC and you've got spring air.
Buy a single or dual lamp UVC duct light. These are short fluorescent lights. Short enough that most air cleaners you pick up from thrift without a good filter, should be able to have the old filter removed, and use the duct template to cut the holes, or figure out another way to mount it.
Once the fitment is good, temporarily remove the lamp.
Take it apart. May not be necessary, as the filter exchange process usually gives you the access you need. Tape off anything that isn't in the filter/light area. Like the internal motor blower housing. Spray the interior with 3M 90, then powder it with TiO2. Let it cure, then tap out the excess. White dust will be everywhere, unless you do a decent job tapping it out. It's used as a pigment, even in food. Paint, etc.
Reinstall the lamp. Turn on the lamp and then the air cleaner. You will immediately notice an improvement in smells that will blow you away.
E.G. I've used one of these to knock the smell out of a nail parlor, within 10-15 minutes. It went from that horrible chemical smell, to a spring breeze.
And except for the lamp, it never needs renewing.
They charge $600+ for these. You're welcome.
enjoy your lung cancer
There is no ozone or other harmful effects. Read the post completely. Go do your own research before posting a reddit-level response.
> PCAC
I made it up. Photo Catalytic Air Cleaner. Bears no resemblance.
Do either of you read for comprehension? Or just wait for the letters to leap off the page and beat you around the head?
enjoy your lung cancer
Here's your (YOU).
> i'm just going to repeated spam my line, without any evidence or links or anything at all. Just a claim without details.
Other people can search the internet, too, you know? Boilerplate jealous behavior from a clipped-dick male.
have fun with that lung cancer little bro
>Buy a single or dual lamp UVC duct light.
Looking to build up a home bio lab here at some point, would these be strong enough to also help sterilize my work area?
I kinda want to make an ionising air filter that never needs replacing, so I can shove it in my roof and forget about it. The positively charged road dust and pollen would be attracted to a deliberately negatively charged plate, then I could have water periodically flush over that plate. Especially if I can figure out a reliable way of washing it based on when it's getting full of dust. May also need to produce additional ozone to decompose any funky VOCs, assuming I could then decompose most of the ozone before it gets into a living compartment, not sure what could catalyse that at room temperature. Maybe a UVC chamber would be a better idea, with LEDs these days it wouldn't eat as much power as if I had to use a mercury lamp.
I'd like to see a teardown of an industrial ionising filter unit, to see what kind of geometry they use.
Can't imagine how clogged a HEPA filter gets if there are wildfires nearby, thankfully I don't live in Melborne or California.
Oh, hadn't heard of that TiO2 interaction. Very cool, sounds superior to ozone in all but the most extreme cases.
>PCAC
What does that stand for?
>What does that stand for?
probably "Photocatalytic Air Cleaner".... It's in the post
Ah, yeah that makes sense. I was googling it, assuming the AC stood for air conditioning, and came up nothing. Did anon just invent that acronym?
Yes.
'furnace filter' is a generic reference, and could strictly mean fiberglass mesh filters. They don't do anything. Only prevent larger objects from getting sucked in.
Or it could refer to a pleated polyester mesh filter with a MERV rating of 13.
The first has a 'rating' of 1. Out of 20. It's the only kind used in the US Miltary multi-man training barracks, and that's why there is such a huge mold problem in them. That in turn gets soldiers sick, giving them also environmental asthma and thus, brain damage when they go to run next morning. The mycotoxins attack their system, also, giving them a wide range of issues.
Been going on 30 years and no one has done anything about it. Don't clean the ducts, nothing. Makes the soldiers stupider (asthma+exercise=low body oxygen brain damage) and less healthy (mycotoxins).
Build the photocatalytic air cleaner out of it.
Iodine 46%. 1 drop a day. 10ml bottle from buyiodine. Put in water then chug it down. AM, every morning. Will cure asthma. I've personally walked many people through it. Attacks stopped.
A true physician is concerned with cause and cure. A doctor is someone who makes something natural, unnatural, and limits his myopic view to the acute symptom. Basically a shill for patent pharma. The bromine and fluorine in your inhalers make the issue WORSE over time.
Why the TiO2? Beside for giving you lung cancer.
Not him, but there's plenty of info on the topic. Just search:
>UVC TiO2 photocatalysis
See? It's possible to search and learn. With a little inquisitiveness.
lmao watch as he labels us a samegay.
How fine should this TiO2 powder be anyhow? Assuming the reactive layer remains on the surface of the powder coating, finer stuff would have more surface area and would interact better. But might be worse for cleaning or being hazardous. Would normal TiO2 pigmented paint work after sanding it, I wonder?
I think in theory a big fan can move the same amount of air quieter than a bunch of smaller fans, but in practice the design of the blades and housing of silent PC fans will prove better. Some youtuber has probably done a video on the topic.
I had the same question. Michael's (big box hobby store) has a high-Ti white paint I considered. I know the powder works, and I wouldn't want an enamel or coating covering up the TiO2. I don't spray anything over the TiO2 after coating. And I know that works.
As far as 'how fine' I used ordinary pigment powder. Ebay and paint stores should have it.
> cleaning or hazardous
If your spray adhesive and application of TiO2 is any good, it should not be hazardous. Except for an inhalation hazard if you're no good at applying the adhesive then the powder. Tapping the sides will release loose powder.
Cleaning? You mean as in accumulated dust? If you have a HEPA air cleaner in the same room, as I specified, you shouldn't ever have to clean the photocatalytic air cleaner. It's strictly for VOC's, which is what HEPA sucks at.
I've had a Xiaomi Mi Air Purifier C3 for a few years now, and I think it does noticeably reduce the amount of dust in the air and on surfaces.
I have it set to run on auto most of the time, where it'll run quietly at low rpm and only ramp up when it detects increased particulate matter such as when I'm cooking. But I do have it set to run full blast for 3 hours on weekdays when I'm at work, cause it filters out particulate matter smaller than it detects, so leaving it to only auto is a waste of potential.
I will say though, don't get the one I got, it has only two buttons and anything beyond on/off and auto/full blast requires a fricking app, that includes the timer settings. I only got it cause it was a gift.
Also the filters are expensive, but since absolute top filter performance is not mission critical in any way, I just take it out to the shop to vacuum and blow compressed air through it in reverse, reset the purifier to make it think I've put in a new filter and it stops bugging me about it and works just as well as a new one as far as I can tell.
The commercial filters work, this works better
>Corsi Rosenthal
Yea, it's just a fan in a box
the wikipedia talk page exposes why its a dogshit encyclopedia
>multiple people say design is much older
>please cite sources
>here is a source, the 'inventors' blog where he says he based his design on earlier designs
>we dont accept blogs as sources
>here are multiple magazine articles for designs
>well i cant be bothered renaming the article
LOL
NO non of these filters work because the fan is substantially undersized to agitate air or premote flow in the majority of the space.
dust settles on the other side of the room and you breathe it in when you kick it up by walking around. the fan cant suck it from across the room before you breathe it in.
if you live next to a plastic melting factory or own a 3d printer it might be better than nothing.
if you run a wood shop its useful because of the sheer density of particuate in the air means it does something. if you vaccuum your house once a quarter this wont do much.
furnace filters don't remove VOCs. They're good for dust and keeping large crap from getting burned up that's it.
why is the fan placed to pull air through the filters instead of pushing?
I have a winix, I drop trow and fart right into it to see the light go from blue to red while the fan spin up to max
Body sheds skin cells constantly
You buy more filters
Total scam
Point a window fan out
I bought one of these lil homies a year ago and I haven't had an allergy flare up since
>filters air and humidifies
love this little guy, fricking expensive though
my favorite part is dumping out the sludge water afterwards that's full of dust and shit
wrong pic
Have already been proven to be full scam.
Yes, it removes particles from air. Then air can absorb particles more easily, and at the end, you'll get the exact same air.
bissel is probably decent but too small imho.
depends on the brand and maker. would suck to buy one and then the filters are no longer made for whatever reason. i have one like that and i just vacuum and wash the filter. i notice a difference, less sneezing. you get what you pay for. i regret not getting the Vornado when it was $99 (pre-2020) now it's much more. i think Vornado is good, i have a heater by them.
Unless you need something that is compact and/or looks pretty: Rosenthal box. Take large fan, tape a cube of furnace filters to it (not just one over the fan, using 4/5 reduces the flow restrictions to allow increased total flow), done.
Marketers like to wank over particle filtration rates, but all that means is how many passes are needed for a given air volume to scrub an absolute particle mass from it - i.e. filtration efficiency only affects required flow rate per unit time. Single-pass efficiency is important for PAPR or other masks, or for high ISO-class cleanrooms, but not for bulk room air filtration.
What kind of fan should i get for the absolute most quiet operation? I'm thinking either:
>HVAC fan like Papst or Ziehl-Abegg, slowed down with a pwm controller
>silenced bathroom/kitchen extractor fan
>huge bank of ~50 PC case fans
Why not... now hear me out
Why not... just blow the air out a window or something?
i have a dog and a cat and have a air purifier in every room
the shit it collects in between filter changes is unreal and worth it for me.