It kind of makes sense in that training neural nets to work in the physical world is a lot more difficult and expensive than training them to simply process data. So skilled physical labour will probably be done by humans for a lot longer than most office jobs. Also any task in which human lives are at stake will be supervised by a human for reasons of legal liability. For example, the latest autopilots can do an entire flight with no human input, but if you get rid of the pilot then who is responsible for the passenger's safety? No manufacturer would want that, so they won't call their product an "autonomous aircraft", even though it basically already is.
The unemployment problem won't last though, as the world population is on track to peak a lot sooner than we used to think. The latest data indicate there will be severe labour shortages in around 20 years from now, followed by a decline in the total number of people around 20 years after that. So there will likely be a period of extreme competition as corporations and entire nations try to poach workers from each other, after which the only way to continue growth will be to invest in automation. >https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736(20)30677-2
So if you learn to weld or do any other trade you'll probably be fine, with the added bonus that you'll get some very lucrative contract offers later in life when the supply/demand ratio hits rock bottom. Any kind of PrepHole related skill will also become more valuable around this time, so even if you don't have a trade job it's worth knowing how to do (especially if your day job is coding or data entry or something else that could be replaced before we hit peak workforce).
If you want to code, your best bet would be to study learning algorithms and make yourself indispensable to the automation process. You might just keep your job longer than your peers, and if you get really lucky you might even make a fortune from the population decline.
>So skilled physical labour will probably be done by humans for a lot longer than most office jobs.
Unskilled physical labour will exist even longer, specifically in smaller firms that don't have the capital or scale to fully automate. It will always be cheaper for a local or regional manufacturing, logistics or service firms to hire a bunch of minimum wagies to do a dozen tasks each that would each require a separate automated replacement.
eg. for a small scale lumber yard, it will be cheaper to hire a bunch of labourers to pile logs into an automated splitter/saw, stack and package the finished beams, clean the whole place daily and do periodic upkeep on the machine parts than investing in automated piling machines, stackers, packers and cleaning robots.
I made an apprenticeship as an electronic technician but am now doing my bachelors in cs (which I really like, I also code in my free time). Do you think security is a good bet?
If you lost your "coding" job to ChatGPT, you were a low skilled Indian copying code snippets off of Stack Exchange anyway. Mechanical Turk, more like Solid State dothead.
>you were a low skilled Indian copying code snippets off of Stack Exchange
That’s literally all programmers though. That’s why everything is shit now. Thank God AI will free us from this tyranny and genocide all Indians.
I don't th8nk it is. It sure seems like everyone sucks shit now. Everyone has to write web apps because they're moronic even though it's easier than ever to write portable native apps.
California spent like 30 million dollars on the dmv website and it completely ate shit on launch and its still garbage.
There's a couplengood programmers somewhere. They probably work at Google or their own statups. Microsoft doesn't even have any good coders anymore. They don't know how to use the features in their own OS
I'm an apprentice in the pipefitters union. Sometimes I get calls that pay something stupid like $96.22 an hour for 12 hour shifts when there's a shutdown somewhere. Sometimes its a few days sometimes it's a few weeks. After that the phone doesn't ring for a few weeks, sometimes months. Shitty thing is, when I do this shutdown I've just walked out on my 9-5 joe job and am scrambling to call every hall in the country to find my next shutdown gig, or alternatively starting at yet another fab shop for like $26 an hour and frick off in 6 weeks when I get my next call. And who knows if the place is a dump or if its unsafe or full of poojeets.
The money isn't bad but I average like 80k before getting raped by taxes... and its such a fricking headache to have like 6 jobs in a year.
if I had a worker as good as five workers, then I can fire four and keep productivity constant?
if suddenly every worker became five times more effective, then I could fire three of five, have double productivity, and fire any of the remaining staff for stepping out of line, knowing there's a large pool of replacements.
Welding is getting replaced by robots lol, meanwhile coding will never be replaced because AI needs CS specialists to maintain and upgrade it so in the end learn 2 code tradegays.
^Confirmed not to know shite about field welding, boiler repair etc. Non-welders have no valid opinions on welding.
To the average idiot all "welding" is the same.
BTW welding is best used as an entry to more advanced careers which incorporate it. Learn to weld then learn to machine and work with controls and you'll always have work.
I also worked in IT for a while and have comptia certs etc, I got out of it because the people are genuine bugmen onions creatures probably much like yourself, and do nothing productive while lording that over others WHILE being some form of meme communist (what is use value for 100)
nah brotha, over the next 5 years, tons of white collar work is going to be streamlined. Everyone is already using chat gpt in the office. (even the 65 year old boomers)
Rn people are building "expert" a.is for pretty much every aspect of the workplace. You may still have a job but your wages will go way the frick down. Competing with Pajeets and Ai to make a living is a hell path. I worked in tech for a decade and am now a handyman, much better imo
11 months ago
Anonymous
Cool, I'll keep making 325k for now though. An idiot could hang a door or whatever.
I used to braze, arc and mig; they actually taught us in middle/highschool but I grew up on a farm and was destined to learn regardless.
I'm hoping to use it to help me in my plumbing/hvac endevours, but worst case at least I can stack dimes on my buddies project car for a couple beers and cold pizza.
You'll have the skill for life, easily revived by a few hours practice if needed.
It saves gobs of money making what many could not otherwise afford like much of my shop equipment and the shop foundation (welded I-beam perimeter filled with concrete slab, the foundation is the form) itself.
Yeah, part of me wishes I pursued it as a career but with all the meth heads in welding these days I'd probably be kicking myself for doing so.
Plus there's the imposter syndrome thing, not sure if I was ever very good as it because I'm out of practice.
this is also genuinely untrue and you will not be automating stuff like repair or structural work or even most fabrication anytime soon, even just due to logistics (AI has a hard time making judgement calls and working with incomplete information, and you pretty much can't make a robot that does most welding work unless it is ambulatory and can think on its feet, that's why you only see this in assembly lines) and even when you do the people running the machines will be welders who learned to code and manage them and not silicon valley limp wrists because to troubleshoot the process one must understand the process and be able to do it
>Welding is getting replaced by robots
As a robotics welder, you still need to know what the frick your doing if you want the b***h to run and fix it's frick ups. Plus it just means you can now go into robotic welder repair. Now when laser welders start becoming a thing you can start make threads on PrepHole.
Robots can already replace humans (and have since the 70s) but it's going to be a long time before it's cheaper to use a robot than to just use a human. Remember, after the 250K initial investment and 60K/yr maintenance costs, you still have to pay a guy to operate it. Even if technology and programming improves, I don't see hardware getting any cheaper.
The only time that a welding robot is preferable to a human:
>QA specifications are beyond what a human is capable of (see particle accelerator), >repetitive production welding that no human is willing to do for long periods of time >job requires production speed higher than what a human or team of humans is capable of >there's a shortage of skilled humans
I will, however, say that technology may emerge that makes welding a far simpler and more user friendly process... IE a completely unskilled laborer just does a shaky handed sloppy weld with inconsistent speed, and the machine compensates with >1MS latency. I don't know how much this is going to impact the labor market for skilled welders except to disincentivize people from improving their skill set and credentials.
>Welding is getting replaced by robots lol
morons said that same shit back in the 80's when robots were being deployed in manufacturing, especially in auto manufacturing.
Robots took over SOME jobs, but welding is a big frick spectrum, and most of it will be done by a human.
Granted, you don't just hang a "Weldur 4 hier" on your garage door and the money starts rolling in.
The reality is, there will always be a need for welding as a SKILL, not as a career. And, welding machines have gotten so cheap, most people who would have hired someone to weld a bracket onto their tractor just do it themselves now.
If ALL you can do is run a stick welder...you have pretty fricking limited job prospects and a dwindling job market freelance. But it's a damned good skill to have, in thousands of other professions.
PrepHole has turned welding into this wierd fetish, like it's something difficult to learn, or that once you can lay a bead you'll be makig $150k an hour...but that's what you get when autists daydream.
>PrepHole has turned welding into this wierd fetish, like it's something difficult to learn, or that once you can lay a bead you'll be makig $150k an hou
homie that's orders of magnitude more of an IRL and generalized thing than on PrepHole specifically
The way non-welders talk about the kind of money they assume we make everywhere is fricking ridiculous and completely disconnected from reality.
Yeah the field guy with his own company and equipment and many niche certs is gonna make good money, doesn't mean that a lazy frick like me who just wants to go do his hours in the shop no questions asked, grab his paycheck and frick off is gonna be another millionaire.
welding robots are basically only good for large-scale mass-production
nearly all of them just follow a programmed path and nothing else, they're closer to a printer than a robot
anything else and using a robot just doesn't make sense, with modern machine vision and ai maybe you could make a robot work more like how a human does, for smaller-scale jobs, maybe that exists already, i haven't looked recently
I learned to weld and the environment is sick and the people are great and the welding itself is extremely enjoyable but do not get into welding thinking you will actually be welding, you're going to be fitting bullshit 99% of the time
You get to talk to a guy who is paid to explain all the books in the library. If you don't understand something you can ask him for help and he'll recommend books you might not have thought of.
Alternatively you can go to PrepHole and admit you don't understand something. Someone psychotically obsessed with that specific niche area will then explain it for free, demand that you read all his favourite books and repeatedly call you "moron" and "homosexual" for not already understanding.
>You get to talk to a guy who is paid to explain all the books in the library.
Your philosophy degree's required classes are the only things that keep that guy from having to ask if you want fries with that.
Philosophy classes are very poor, the entire history of Philosophy is boot licking the powers that be while pretending they aren't and they're super serious investigators of life and everything
Lots of majors are like that. Philosphy just has you reading a bunch of books and then you write some fairly basic papers and maybe write some big piece in your final year about how [CURRENT EVENT] relates to [ETHICAL DILEMMA] from [OBSCURE PHILOSOPHY TEXT] and then you graduate and go to law school where you actually begin studying for what you're planning on working with.
Them >Philosophy majors explore intellectual, political, and social theories about human existence and interaction. Studying philosophy builds critical thinking, writing, and communication skills. By learning to analyze and solve problems, philosophy majors can succeed in business, education, and technology careers.
You >flailing around in your own shit for two weekends just understanding the multi-sylabillic words
Only philosophy majors i know are now either homeless, struggling to get more hours at minimum wage jobs, or living large on their parent's money. You know what degree prepares you better for coding? Computer Science.
From the basic philosophy I took in college it seemed like they were ok with any stance you took on a given problem as long as the reasoning was well constructed.
>student debts are forgiven
You are one dumb goy, it was a political stunt targeted at morons like the military paying for transgender surgeries which equal to less than 1% of the DoD annual budget because trannies don't join the military. The debt forgiveness will never make it through SCOTUS, Biden knew that when he did it. It's called a win-win
left out the part where all internships post 1980 require you to currently be pursuing a Bachelor's degree (as in spending at least 20k a year on tuition)
moron, nobody gets a philosophy degree to get a job in philosophy. College degrees are not job titles. The CEO of my company has a history degree from Harvard. He didn't get it to get a job in history.
AI has always been here, and it’s always been pretty much a dead end. it’s only recently the smooth brains have started hyping it because people saw through the “NFTs are the next currency” lie, so it would. E more accurate to say that AI is the next NFT.
Sure they'll just build/program a robot for every random welding job that comes up, that has to be cheaper than simply paying a person to do the welding.
Just imaging a tig robot gives me the chills. When I see that then we can have the trade cope memes because we've advanced to a point of not needing manual labor.
I once was at the ESAB offices in Gothenburg around 2010. They probably had 20 welders or so just burning rods on various plates with all kinds of parameters to see which positions and amps they could work on. But what caught my attention was a guy in a lab coat and hard hat in a little shed inside the shop fiddling with a robot. Dude had hooked it up with a MIG, TIG and Stick welder on the same arm. I went up and asked him why.
Working a trade job is not the same as a factory job.
A trade skill is much more transferable and usable than some tech job. Depending on which and where, it may or may not be more financially lucrative than a tech job. An electrician can do work in any townnfor nearly anyone. Every home has electricity and can have electrical issues. A web designer or some programming thing is much more specific.
Yet, trade jobs are infinity more physically demanding and dangerous.
Half way through my welding degree
What are some of the best ways for me to specialize and rake in money after I finish? I'm a non traditional student at 30 so I have catching up to do
Get some time on the road to make money. Learn to fit. Get your CWI early. Take a CAD course and some machine shop training goes with everything and like welding changes the way you view metal.
>Can people work together instead of arguing
No. We got gender wars, class wars, brand wars, ethics wars, blood wars, ect etc. Someone isn't like me they are wrong and stupid >Can't we all just be friends?
All my friends fight me the hardest. It's why I'm friends with them and not you.
resource scarcity brings out the best in everyone : )
TPTB know that we're all about to be bottle-necked on certain key elements and resources that will cause our comfy 1st world Sunday drive society turn into mad max world real quick
The only people being pushed out are probably rock bottom teir labor in massive companies. Until AI is sold at harbor freight people will still have work. Expect for maybe sub 60 IQ but they really need die since the future will not be kind at all.
>The only people being pushed out are probably rock bottom teir labor in massive companies
The people getting axed right now are below bottom tier. Lots of them were hired by companies that knew they were hiring pointless people they didn't need. Facebook for example hired people fresh out of college for no other reason than to make sure that those people didn't make competing startups. This was possible because tons of big companies lived in absurdly cheap debt and grew every year and had absurd market caps. Like if you're a 10 billion dollar company and you grow by another billion every two years, you can borrow hundreds of millions in that time and not even begin to worry.
Now interest rates are going up, stock prices are tanking and revenue is all over the place. So those people are getting laid off and enter a job market which isn't looking to hire these kinds of pointless people anymore. AI isn't really that disruptive other than in places like schools where teacher now realize that students can spit out essays in two minutes and it completely invalidates their grading methodology.
So you agree that AI was disruptive element on how teachers grades essays to the point at which its no longer a viable element in classes?
12 months ago
Anonymous
AI still spits out recognizable responses when all the idiots in a class type the literal question is as a prompt. So you grade those on the merits of their often barely coherent content and then give everyone else extra credit for originality.
Stack exchange was said to have killed programming jobs too.
Unfortunately, the programmers it replaced were too stupid to copy-and-paste the answer, and copied the question by mistake.
Now you get actual programmers that have to fix all the damage. It will take years, like y2k did.
Now imagine AI, feeding off itself on a mass scale.
I’m going back to analog electronics.
Welding wont make you rich but it will make you Black person rich. You can earn 20k or more per month as a unionized welder (journeyman's rate is 96.22 for weekend work or past 8 hours in a day, per diem of 150 for travel work)... IF you're working. In most cases, unless your dad's dad was a union man, the phone can go weeks without ringing, and months in the winter. So you spend half the year just stacking racks and the other half scrambling to find shop work for $28/hr. Now, if you have good financial management skills this is no issue, but most welders are white Black folk who go out and get new tattoos, Carhartt everything, and Nitto tires for their trucks the minute the check clears. They end up the type of subhuman who buys a new truck in August and defaults on payments by April. That and it's not a matter of if, but when, you get divorced and/or develop a substance abuse problem.
But if you're a degenerate white Black person living for the occasional strip club coke binge and a few Cuban link gold chains, welding is the life for you.
why are welders like this? the majority of them that i've met, and one that is a friend all act like white Black folk. if they're not hooked on meth then they're at least completely full of themselves and think they're god's gift to the world.
Dunno what subhumans you've worked with but that's for the bottom tier white trash who deserve to die for existing. Meth is a choice like being a drunk or ignoring PPE then getting the ailments that deserves. People who refuse to be professional deserve to die horribly but the tend to take bystanders (see Chinese forklift videos) with them.
Avoid stupid people (they'll easily kill you on a jobsite so avoiding them doesn't mean not to watch out for them).
man I've been welding for 7 years now and the most hardcore shit I do is sometimes having a cigarette after the last shift of the week, I don't even drink alcohol anymore
>instead of paying a guy $30 an hour to weld, let's pay a guy $40 an hour to program it, a repairman $300 an hour to fix it when it breaks, and a guy $25 an hour to operate it!
Robots are way more unreliable than people unless you're a large enough company to constantly have tech support on location. Even CNC laser cutting machines break down constantly and you need to call up people who charge hundreds of dollars an hour to show up and just go "Yeah this is the P152 model, oh bot that's a beauty. Just sucks that they don't make BZ breakers anymore, gotta have them custom made. That'll be 2000 dollars and it'll take a week to get them. Also your aux mirror needs replaced, that's why you keep getting those wide cuts towards the end of your program since its heating up and warping, and that'll be another 10'000" and its just non-stop shit like that. Everything you'd think they'd have figured out and updated with modern software knowhow is completely gone. Want to change the program 10 years into the robots life time, cool gotta get a laptop running some weird custom windows XP with custom drivers that cost thousands of dollars and has an interface that is straight out of Win 3.1 and uses proprietary compression just because their biggest client wanted hackers to be incapable of using the files
Industrial machines are a pain in the ass to deal with. Yeah they work great when they work, but you need like 10 years of experience to even use them properly or someone who has is around to teach you every single frick up you can possibly make and how each machine on the floor differs. You can't even error search a lot fo them properly because they're fricking built to never specify a fricking thing about anything. Even 5000 dollar welding machines that comes with a list of error codes will still spit out codes that aren't even listen in the fricking manual. Oh cool ERr 25 again, I'll just go the manual and see what's wrong so it doesn't happen again. Oh ERr 24 means I overheated a compontent and ERr 26 means I overheated the torch handle. That's great information, sure sucks that they for some reason skipped ERr 25 for no fricking reason
that's the business though but it's going to change in the near future as ros is already deprecating those companies
they're all howling mad about it and saying they will never support ros et cetera.
Study engineering in college and do some machining for your projects. Build your own CNC machine. Apply for job as technician at a company that makes them. Enjoy life as a repair-salesman while traveling around fixing fricked machines in shop with unbelievable morons working in them and learning to hate your career.
> working in automotive factory > hundreds of robots welding shit > lines put out thousands of auto parts everyday > each robot make the same welds on the same part for years > their entire job and existence is to each make one weld > somehow still frick it up
Watching robots attempt welding has convinced me skynet will never exist. This isn't some mom and pop shop either, this is in a billion dollar manufacturing corporation
"Learn to code" was always bad advice, especially in 2010 just after the market crashed.
Getting into a job you don't like just for the money is always bad advice.
AI isn't replacing anyone's job. A bunch of managers over hired to inflate their egos. Now the economy is going to shit, they need to fire those hires. So they get to say "oh we are replacing them with AI" which allows them to pretend to be smart and hip to the new thing.
The current round of AI boosterism is just a bunch of (admittedly impressive) party tricks. Getting AI to write your code is great as long as you don't care if the code is correct.
AI isn't replacing programming jobs for White people, it's replacing HR goons, middle managers, and checkbox tickers. Sure, you could argue that there aren't any entry level programming jobs, but that's due to probably 10 million imported third world coders and IT critters (the ones being replaced).
It's pretty funny watching blue collar types (or paid shills larping as blue collar types) rage against white collar workers, when you getting booted off social media was due to a lack of White Republican white collar workers. Same reason you don't want to give up control of major institutions to your enemies or their third world allies: there will be no one around to monkeywrench things when those institutions turn against you.
I'm a neet.
my mom owns a construction company.
she bought me a house and I just neet all day.
when I'm bored I do diy stuff. sometimes I make her leather accessories.
she regularly stops by and cooks me food.
anyone else?
i redesigned my mining equipment designs to be pretty much entirely riveted instead of welded, thanks to computers and cad software making the added design complexity easier to draw
it's amazing what you can make with just carefully designed sheet metal
Welding is so Black person tier as a trade that there's nothing else to discuss. This is why every time we bring up quality of life and money the welders start giving you all these feminine, gay copes about living simple and lowering your standards.
I worked a trade for years and hated it. The work itself is fine, fun even, but the environments and people suck. Domestic work would sometimes be painful dealing with some nigard or moron and commercial/industrial wad an upgrade but it became more demanding and the coworkers were bad. Almost everyone was an alcoholic at best, a smoker at minimum, or a coke head blowing his paycheck at the hotel before he even went home. Sometimes demands were just unreasonable too.
Work is for money and I would rather sit at a desk fiddling around doing boring easy crap to save my energy for my hobbies. Doing PrepHole for work just killed my desire to do it at home. At least I have a full toolbox now though, although I never bought my own welder but I've never needed one yet and I doubt I've lost it entirely.
Plumber/welder. I'm not just talking about other mechanical tradies though the electricians did more drugs although less alcohol and half of the civils were like cave men. I lost count of how many times we had to fix up or redig the trench we were given it got to the point where we had our own digger driver because of it.
I really genuinely do enjoy welding and the best days were when we had a welders den outside and I was just being fed stainless pieces and flanges on the ground to just mindlessly tig weld together. I would love track of time just pounding out butts all day long. That was maybe 30% of the work though. I suppose I'd be at home in a fabrication yard or something but a big part of the appeal of trade work is seeing something come into existence and how every site is a bit of a new thing. If I'm groundhog day then I'd rather be in an air condition office half asleep.
Really though it wasn't the work that killed it it was the fact I'm a weirdo and I just couldn't fit in nor did I really want to which hasn't changed much but you really need to work in a team in trades because you physically can't do it alone a lot of the time.
I'm on the team rolling out Microsoft cognitive services at my corporation and it will unironically replace coders in the next 10 years. All bullshit aside coding is no longer a viable long term job prospect.
In 10 years chatgpt 17 will be in Tesla bot version 9 and they’ll be doing all jobs. We might live in a post scarcity utopia like Star Trek, or the hellscape of terminator.
>AI is taking up programming
Will never happen. You don't even have to finish school. I know dropouts who got 100gorillion dollars/ month wfh jobs where they jerk off all day.
>make 20x less money going into a field that is also saturated with no jobs, but can be done by people with down syndrome
Good thread op, Welding has been the last resort job for morons for a long time
Not sure if this thread is still alive, but I live in an apartment and work a 9-5. I wanna learn to weld, but not sure where I can do it... Anyone in a similar situation had success?
First read exhaustively (fora like Weldingweb are outstanding) and watch videos then you'll know enough to choose from available hardware to suit your situation.
Welding can pay but not running a wire welder in a fab shop. It does however go magnificently with other DIY skills (for example every mechanic should learn to weld).
>make 20x less money going into a field that is also saturated with no jobs, but can be done by people with down syndrome
Good thread op, Welding has been the last resort job for morons for a long time
Pipe and other high end welding are feast or famine but most welders aren't good enough to pass pipe tests.
>tfw electrician with PLC cert
whynotboth.gif
>>tfw electrician with PLC cert
^Wisdom. Learn to weld and spin wrenches and you'll always have work. They all go together in industry.
All welding is profitable as long as you know when to use which process. The issue with making money doing MIG is that you as a welder are going to doing mostly low quality work that focuses much more on speed and volume of output rather than the best possible welds. Its an extremely easy to learn skill, especially if your shop is doing well enough to afford fancy synergic machines with pulse settings. Its simply not a very high skill level, people mostly just quit because its a hassle to do it. All that means that your pay is unlikely to be high but it can be. Once you get into TIG welding and you're welding stainless, aluminium, titanium, and other stuff, that's when you actually get out of the minimum wage moron zone.
Its about adding skills together. Don't do one thing, learn many skills that work with each other. Welder, mechanic, electrican, hydrualics tech, rigger, machine operator, etc etc. Don't just be a welder, be a millwright or a fitter or a fabricator.
>joined the military >just have to make it 20 years and I'll get out with a decent pension, free healthcare for life for myself and my kids and my spouse
Sounds like a cheat code but after 5 years it's starting to grind on me (and my joints). Just 15 more years to go >tfw
Not really. You have x amount of years to stay at x rank before the Army gives you the boot, but it's so long that your have to be an incomprehensible moron baboon to hit those time gates. I hit E5 within 3.5 years- it's not hard to promote fast when you have half a brain.
I spent 6 years in the Marine Corps. Make sure you're utilizing your VA home loan and BAH to build equity in a home near your base. If you move duty stations then rent the old house and reuse your VA home loan, repeat the process. Also make sure you're going to medical and getting your injuries documented, it'll help when you file with the VA when you get out. If you make it to 20 years you'll have your pension, VA disability, and rent money coming in. Don't forget to utilize your gi bill to get educated, I really recommend checking out the warrant officer pipeline if you can hack it.
Why limit yourself to one skillset to earn money with?
I worked in a fabrication shop while putting myself through college. The skills I developed were awesome but not really applicable to my degree (BS in Respiratory Therapy).
Six years ago I started working as a contractor doing travel contracts and, while the contracts pay well, I found I only ended up working ~6 months/year and wanted income between contracts.
Hit up a couple old coworkers and started working in between contracts. The money isn't quite as good but welding is a hell of a lot less stressful.
Not even close to reality. While software programmers are probably useless now, robot and PLC programmers are in extremely high demand. Where I live, they are paying $130K USD to start after 3 months probation at $90K
I just got out of that industry into software after 5 years. The reason? They literally want you to do 10 people's job. They want you to be an electrician, fab guy, safety controls engineer, process controls engineer, construction manager, electrical engineer, project manager, finance guy, an operator sometimes, and a plc programmer. That's if you're tied to a plant. If you're an integrator, expect all those jobs crammed into a smaller timeline while on-site all over the world now. Factory management tends to be coneiving, and somewhat too machevelian for my taste. If you need the money, go for it. There's a reason every old head in that trade got out or are completely bitter at the world/divorced. It's a high stress job with minimal rewards. Also, plcs will be replaced with embedded systems in ur lifetime for complex processes, Allen Bradley got too greedy.
They're definitely overworking them but that's because of the shortage. Your experience is a bit excessive so I wonder if you were at a small shop. I'm a controls engineer intercompany manager and it's the only thing I do. I push back on anything extra and I'm almost at $320k USD salary. I also have the entire summer off for vacation because it only gets busy in fall, winter, spring. I do check emails and stuff and occasionally do some minor things on vacation. They also pay for all travel expenses and bonuses. I make way more than any software dev by far, can never be unemployed, and mostly work with young people now anyways. Anything too stressful, tedious or grunty we just subcontract to Indians
Allen Bradley is not going away for anything safety critical. Neither is Siemens.
But you got some things right on the divorced bitter old boomers who let themselves be fricked instead of having a quiet union among coworkers. That's why small companies are a million times worse but they're improving now. Compensation for 5-10 years is worth it to retire 15 years early
>1$ has been put into your corporate account, the post
Lol nice b8, I bit.
Meanwhile, go on linked in and find a controls position with 2 years experience required that is more than 90k. Also plcs are on there way out for safety critical items already
>Discuss
Why
It kind of makes sense in that training neural nets to work in the physical world is a lot more difficult and expensive than training them to simply process data. So skilled physical labour will probably be done by humans for a lot longer than most office jobs. Also any task in which human lives are at stake will be supervised by a human for reasons of legal liability. For example, the latest autopilots can do an entire flight with no human input, but if you get rid of the pilot then who is responsible for the passenger's safety? No manufacturer would want that, so they won't call their product an "autonomous aircraft", even though it basically already is.
The unemployment problem won't last though, as the world population is on track to peak a lot sooner than we used to think. The latest data indicate there will be severe labour shortages in around 20 years from now, followed by a decline in the total number of people around 20 years after that. So there will likely be a period of extreme competition as corporations and entire nations try to poach workers from each other, after which the only way to continue growth will be to invest in automation.
>https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736(20)30677-2
So if you learn to weld or do any other trade you'll probably be fine, with the added bonus that you'll get some very lucrative contract offers later in life when the supply/demand ratio hits rock bottom. Any kind of PrepHole related skill will also become more valuable around this time, so even if you don't have a trade job it's worth knowing how to do (especially if your day job is coding or data entry or something else that could be replaced before we hit peak workforce).
If you want to code, your best bet would be to study learning algorithms and make yourself indispensable to the automation process. You might just keep your job longer than your peers, and if you get really lucky you might even make a fortune from the population decline.
>So skilled physical labour will probably be done by humans for a lot longer than most office jobs.
Unskilled physical labour will exist even longer, specifically in smaller firms that don't have the capital or scale to fully automate. It will always be cheaper for a local or regional manufacturing, logistics or service firms to hire a bunch of minimum wagies to do a dozen tasks each that would each require a separate automated replacement.
eg. for a small scale lumber yard, it will be cheaper to hire a bunch of labourers to pile logs into an automated splitter/saw, stack and package the finished beams, clean the whole place daily and do periodic upkeep on the machine parts than investing in automated piling machines, stackers, packers and cleaning robots.
I made an apprenticeship as an electronic technician but am now doing my bachelors in cs (which I really like, I also code in my free time). Do you think security is a good bet?
Those valies are 100% going to have ended up being overestimates.
If you lost your "coding" job to ChatGPT, you were a low skilled Indian copying code snippets off of Stack Exchange anyway. Mechanical Turk, more like Solid State dothead.
>you were a low skilled Indian copying code snippets off of Stack Exchange
That’s literally all programmers though. That’s why everything is shit now. Thank God AI will free us from this tyranny and genocide all Indians.
>That’s literally all programmers though.
This is of course completely false.
I don't th8nk it is. It sure seems like everyone sucks shit now. Everyone has to write web apps because they're moronic even though it's easier than ever to write portable native apps.
California spent like 30 million dollars on the dmv website and it completely ate shit on launch and its still garbage.
There's a couplengood programmers somewhere. They probably work at Google or their own statups. Microsoft doesn't even have any good coders anymore. They don't know how to use the features in their own OS
/^discuss|thoughts???$/i;op:only;boards:diy;
Not PrepHole frick off moron. If you're too stupid to find a career rope yourself.
I'm an apprentice in the pipefitters union. Sometimes I get calls that pay something stupid like $96.22 an hour for 12 hour shifts when there's a shutdown somewhere. Sometimes its a few days sometimes it's a few weeks. After that the phone doesn't ring for a few weeks, sometimes months. Shitty thing is, when I do this shutdown I've just walked out on my 9-5 joe job and am scrambling to call every hall in the country to find my next shutdown gig, or alternatively starting at yet another fab shop for like $26 an hour and frick off in 6 weeks when I get my next call. And who knows if the place is a dump or if its unsafe or full of poojeets.
The money isn't bad but I average like 80k before getting raped by taxes... and its such a fricking headache to have like 6 jobs in a year.
tl;dr
it ain't all its cracked up to be
You need to find an employer who will give you the unpaid time off in return for retaining a skilled fitter
Very accurate.
Only the big brains will be able to retain their desk jobs.
The current understanding of AI's effect is that it makes programmers better at their jobs.
It doesn't replace programmers, it makes them better.
Only on PrepHole would you hear people argue that being better at your job is a bad thing.
Typical tradie mindset.
if I had a worker as good as five workers, then I can fire four and keep productivity constant?
if suddenly every worker became five times more effective, then I could fire three of five, have double productivity, and fire any of the remaining staff for stepping out of line, knowing there's a large pool of replacements.
Welding is getting replaced by robots lol, meanwhile coding will never be replaced because AI needs CS specialists to maintain and upgrade it so in the end learn 2 code tradegays.
^Confirmed not to know shite about field welding, boiler repair etc. Non-welders have no valid opinions on welding.
To the average idiot all "welding" is the same.
BTW welding is best used as an entry to more advanced careers which incorporate it. Learn to weld then learn to machine and work with controls and you'll always have work.
I also worked in IT for a while and have comptia certs etc, I got out of it because the people are genuine bugmen onions creatures probably much like yourself, and do nothing productive while lording that over others WHILE being some form of meme communist (what is use value for 100)
>i decided to sacrifice my own wealth making potential because i was annoyed by my coworkers
homie you will not have a job in 5 years
Sounds like wishful thinking.
nah brotha, over the next 5 years, tons of white collar work is going to be streamlined. Everyone is already using chat gpt in the office. (even the 65 year old boomers)
Rn people are building "expert" a.is for pretty much every aspect of the workplace. You may still have a job but your wages will go way the frick down. Competing with Pajeets and Ai to make a living is a hell path. I worked in tech for a decade and am now a handyman, much better imo
Cool, I'll keep making 325k for now though. An idiot could hang a door or whatever.
literally me
I used to braze, arc and mig; they actually taught us in middle/highschool but I grew up on a farm and was destined to learn regardless.
I'm hoping to use it to help me in my plumbing/hvac endevours, but worst case at least I can stack dimes on my buddies project car for a couple beers and cold pizza.
You'll have the skill for life, easily revived by a few hours practice if needed.
It saves gobs of money making what many could not otherwise afford like much of my shop equipment and the shop foundation (welded I-beam perimeter filled with concrete slab, the foundation is the form) itself.
Yeah, part of me wishes I pursued it as a career but with all the meth heads in welding these days I'd probably be kicking myself for doing so.
Plus there's the imposter syndrome thing, not sure if I was ever very good as it because I'm out of practice.
this is also genuinely untrue and you will not be automating stuff like repair or structural work or even most fabrication anytime soon, even just due to logistics (AI has a hard time making judgement calls and working with incomplete information, and you pretty much can't make a robot that does most welding work unless it is ambulatory and can think on its feet, that's why you only see this in assembly lines) and even when you do the people running the machines will be welders who learned to code and manage them and not silicon valley limp wrists because to troubleshoot the process one must understand the process and be able to do it
>Welding is getting replaced by robots lol
Yep. Has been since the early 80s.
el oh el
>Welding is getting replaced by robots
As a robotics welder, you still need to know what the frick your doing if you want the b***h to run and fix it's frick ups. Plus it just means you can now go into robotic welder repair. Now when laser welders start becoming a thing you can start make threads on PrepHole.
>Welding is getting replaced by robots lol
>he thinks humans are used for the repetitive simple shit
Weldgays on suicide watch. Enjoy that $20/hr salary for the rest of your life.
Robots can already replace humans (and have since the 70s) but it's going to be a long time before it's cheaper to use a robot than to just use a human. Remember, after the 250K initial investment and 60K/yr maintenance costs, you still have to pay a guy to operate it. Even if technology and programming improves, I don't see hardware getting any cheaper.
The only time that a welding robot is preferable to a human:
>QA specifications are beyond what a human is capable of (see particle accelerator),
>repetitive production welding that no human is willing to do for long periods of time
>job requires production speed higher than what a human or team of humans is capable of
>there's a shortage of skilled humans
I will, however, say that technology may emerge that makes welding a far simpler and more user friendly process... IE a completely unskilled laborer just does a shaky handed sloppy weld with inconsistent speed, and the machine compensates with >1MS latency. I don't know how much this is going to impact the labor market for skilled welders except to disincentivize people from improving their skill set and credentials.
People who say this shit never went outside of an office in their entire lives.
>Welding is getting replaced by robots lol
morons said that same shit back in the 80's when robots were being deployed in manufacturing, especially in auto manufacturing.
Robots took over SOME jobs, but welding is a big frick spectrum, and most of it will be done by a human.
Granted, you don't just hang a "Weldur 4 hier" on your garage door and the money starts rolling in.
The reality is, there will always be a need for welding as a SKILL, not as a career. And, welding machines have gotten so cheap, most people who would have hired someone to weld a bracket onto their tractor just do it themselves now.
If ALL you can do is run a stick welder...you have pretty fricking limited job prospects and a dwindling job market freelance. But it's a damned good skill to have, in thousands of other professions.
PrepHole has turned welding into this wierd fetish, like it's something difficult to learn, or that once you can lay a bead you'll be makig $150k an hour...but that's what you get when autists daydream.
>PrepHole has turned welding into this wierd fetish, like it's something difficult to learn, or that once you can lay a bead you'll be makig $150k an hou
homie that's orders of magnitude more of an IRL and generalized thing than on PrepHole specifically
The way non-welders talk about the kind of money they assume we make everywhere is fricking ridiculous and completely disconnected from reality.
Yeah the field guy with his own company and equipment and many niche certs is gonna make good money, doesn't mean that a lazy frick like me who just wants to go do his hours in the shop no questions asked, grab his paycheck and frick off is gonna be another millionaire.
welding robots are basically only good for large-scale mass-production
nearly all of them just follow a programmed path and nothing else, they're closer to a printer than a robot
anything else and using a robot just doesn't make sense, with modern machine vision and ai maybe you could make a robot work more like how a human does, for smaller-scale jobs, maybe that exists already, i haven't looked recently
learn both shitter
I learned to weld and the environment is sick and the people are great and the welding itself is extremely enjoyable but do not get into welding thinking you will actually be welding, you're going to be fitting bullshit 99% of the time
>staring at an arc for 8 hours vs doing all the auxiliary tasks associated with welding
Probably a good thing
Throwback to twitter banning people for telling laid off “””journalists””” to learn to code
Not saying it's worth a hefty price tag, but philosophy surprisingly prepares you very well for coding
>philosophy surprisingly prepares you very well for coding
I suppose. I always heard that a solid background in grilling hot dogs was excellent preparation for coding.
Is there anything from a philosophy class you can't get from two weekends worth of library books and internet access?
You get to talk to a guy who is paid to explain all the books in the library. If you don't understand something you can ask him for help and he'll recommend books you might not have thought of.
Alternatively you can go to PrepHole and admit you don't understand something. Someone psychotically obsessed with that specific niche area will then explain it for free, demand that you read all his favourite books and repeatedly call you "moron" and "homosexual" for not already understanding.
>You get to talk to a guy who is paid to explain all the books in the library.
Your philosophy degree's required classes are the only things that keep that guy from having to ask if you want fries with that.
They didn't do shit.
t. the philosophy major taking your order at the drive through
>video
wordcellism
Philosophy classes are very poor, the entire history of Philosophy is boot licking the powers that be while pretending they aren't and they're super serious investigators of life and everything
That explains why the homie that started philosophy was executed by the state
That's part of the story. The first one was, then the rest went 'whoa'
Lots of majors are like that. Philosphy just has you reading a bunch of books and then you write some fairly basic papers and maybe write some big piece in your final year about how [CURRENT EVENT] relates to [ETHICAL DILEMMA] from [OBSCURE PHILOSOPHY TEXT] and then you graduate and go to law school where you actually begin studying for what you're planning on working with.
Them
>Philosophy majors explore intellectual, political, and social theories about human existence and interaction. Studying philosophy builds critical thinking, writing, and communication skills. By learning to analyze and solve problems, philosophy majors can succeed in business, education, and technology careers.
You
>flailing around in your own shit for two weekends just understanding the multi-sylabillic words
Only philosophy majors i know are now either homeless, struggling to get more hours at minimum wage jobs, or living large on their parent's money. You know what degree prepares you better for coding? Computer Science.
>Only philosophy majors i know are now either homeless, struggling to get more hours at minimum wage jobs, or living large on their parent's money
you haven't met the masses of Philosophy students turned lawyers? I mean that's the whole point in the modern paradigm
From the basic philosophy I took in college it seemed like they were ok with any stance you took on a given problem as long as the reasoning was well constructed.
>meanwhile Adams student debts are forgiven so paid for by chris
isn't this world lovely
>Adams student debts are forgiven
>believing the senile pedo
top kek
>student debts are forgiven
You are one dumb goy, it was a political stunt targeted at morons like the military paying for transgender surgeries which equal to less than 1% of the DoD annual budget because trannies don't join the military. The debt forgiveness will never make it through SCOTUS, Biden knew that when he did it. It's called a win-win
They're not going through with that
As someone working on a PhD in philosophy this checks out.
left out the part where all internships post 1980 require you to currently be pursuing a Bachelor's degree (as in spending at least 20k a year on tuition)
LOL, autismologic
moron, nobody gets a philosophy degree to get a job in philosophy. College degrees are not job titles. The CEO of my company has a history degree from Harvard. He didn't get it to get a job in history.
Fricking autists, lol.
AI has always been here, and it’s always been pretty much a dead end. it’s only recently the smooth brains have started hyping it because people saw through the “NFTs are the next currency” lie, so it would. E more accurate to say that AI is the next NFT.
bump
right, image
Can it scale a wall or go inside a tube or work underwater?
How does it climb a building?
Sure they'll just build/program a robot for every random welding job that comes up, that has to be cheaper than simply paying a person to do the welding.
Fun fact: You've never seen a robot welder that did anything other than MIG.
Just imaging a tig robot gives me the chills. When I see that then we can have the trade cope memes because we've advanced to a point of not needing manual labor.
I once was at the ESAB offices in Gothenburg around 2010. They probably had 20 welders or so just burning rods on various plates with all kinds of parameters to see which positions and amps they could work on. But what caught my attention was a guy in a lab coat and hard hat in a little shed inside the shop fiddling with a robot. Dude had hooked it up with a MIG, TIG and Stick welder on the same arm. I went up and asked him why.
>Because nobody has ever done it before.
How well did it run? Stick should be easy to program but how would it be able to mimick the dipping actions?
Don't ruin fite club
Stupid fricking homosexual c**t have a nice day
Man, I had no idea you could reply to yourself. Cool.
Working a trade job is not the same as a factory job.
A trade skill is much more transferable and usable than some tech job. Depending on which and where, it may or may not be more financially lucrative than a tech job. An electrician can do work in any townnfor nearly anyone. Every home has electricity and can have electrical issues. A web designer or some programming thing is much more specific.
Yet, trade jobs are infinity more physically demanding and dangerous.
So each one has its ups and downs.
Half way through my welding degree
What are some of the best ways for me to specialize and rake in money after I finish? I'm a non traditional student at 30 so I have catching up to do
Get some time on the road to make money. Learn to fit. Get your CWI early. Take a CAD course and some machine shop training goes with everything and like welding changes the way you view metal.
>welding degree
Sounds like you've got a PhD in mouthbreathing already, kiddo
it does no one good to characature each other, we are all fricked
Can people work together instead of arguing who's job is more useless than the others? What's this competition is for? Can't we all just be friends?
>Can people work together instead of arguing
No. We got gender wars, class wars, brand wars, ethics wars, blood wars, ect etc. Someone isn't like me they are wrong and stupid
>Can't we all just be friends?
All my friends fight me the hardest. It's why I'm friends with them and not you.
have a nice day sasuke
resource scarcity brings out the best in everyone : )
TPTB know that we're all about to be bottle-necked on certain key elements and resources that will cause our comfy 1st world Sunday drive society turn into mad max world real quick
The people who were saying learn to code were non-coder journogays writing articles and seething about blue collars.
They're also the ones actually being replaced by AI, code automation is only really hitting the lowest glue-code jobs.
>They're also the ones actually being replaced by AI
former journo here, every journo I know is working easier *because* of AI. everything from transcription to writing itself
>oh but you'll be replaced
no, people will just push out more content. AI also isn't editing any video outside of meme hallucinations so there's that.
The only people being pushed out are probably rock bottom teir labor in massive companies. Until AI is sold at harbor freight people will still have work. Expect for maybe sub 60 IQ but they really need die since the future will not be kind at all.
>The only people being pushed out are probably rock bottom teir labor in massive companies
The people getting axed right now are below bottom tier. Lots of them were hired by companies that knew they were hiring pointless people they didn't need. Facebook for example hired people fresh out of college for no other reason than to make sure that those people didn't make competing startups. This was possible because tons of big companies lived in absurdly cheap debt and grew every year and had absurd market caps. Like if you're a 10 billion dollar company and you grow by another billion every two years, you can borrow hundreds of millions in that time and not even begin to worry.
Now interest rates are going up, stock prices are tanking and revenue is all over the place. So those people are getting laid off and enter a job market which isn't looking to hire these kinds of pointless people anymore. AI isn't really that disruptive other than in places like schools where teacher now realize that students can spit out essays in two minutes and it completely invalidates their grading methodology.
>and it completely invalidates their grading methodology
lol no, they just do more in-person work now lol
So you agree that AI was disruptive element on how teachers grades essays to the point at which its no longer a viable element in classes?
AI still spits out recognizable responses when all the idiots in a class type the literal question is as a prompt. So you grade those on the merits of their often barely coherent content and then give everyone else extra credit for originality.
This makes sense. No one can read journos except other journos or AI, so they're also written by AI. Perfect
A.I. is a long way from totally doing that, and you also have to know what youre doing in the first place for GPT to be an effective tool.
Stack exchange was said to have killed programming jobs too.
Unfortunately, the programmers it replaced were too stupid to copy-and-paste the answer, and copied the question by mistake.
Now you get actual programmers that have to fix all the damage. It will take years, like y2k did.
Now imagine AI, feeding off itself on a mass scale.
I’m going back to analog electronics.
Welding wont make you rich but it will make you Black person rich. You can earn 20k or more per month as a unionized welder (journeyman's rate is 96.22 for weekend work or past 8 hours in a day, per diem of 150 for travel work)... IF you're working. In most cases, unless your dad's dad was a union man, the phone can go weeks without ringing, and months in the winter. So you spend half the year just stacking racks and the other half scrambling to find shop work for $28/hr. Now, if you have good financial management skills this is no issue, but most welders are white Black folk who go out and get new tattoos, Carhartt everything, and Nitto tires for their trucks the minute the check clears. They end up the type of subhuman who buys a new truck in August and defaults on payments by April. That and it's not a matter of if, but when, you get divorced and/or develop a substance abuse problem.
But if you're a degenerate white Black person living for the occasional strip club coke binge and a few Cuban link gold chains, welding is the life for you.
why are welders like this? the majority of them that i've met, and one that is a friend all act like white Black folk. if they're not hooked on meth then they're at least completely full of themselves and think they're god's gift to the world.
i'm not trying to shitpost, this is a genuine question.
>got a welding job 6 months ago
>slightly addicted to caffeine
Is this how it starts? How long before I'm shooting meth and sucking dick for cash?
>sucking dick for cash
Why weren't you charging before? Career advice, get your CWI ASAP and don't neglect the balls.
That's my plan. Just don't want to fall down the meth trap that every welder seems doomed to.
Dunno what subhumans you've worked with but that's for the bottom tier white trash who deserve to die for existing. Meth is a choice like being a drunk or ignoring PPE then getting the ailments that deserves. People who refuse to be professional deserve to die horribly but the tend to take bystanders (see Chinese forklift videos) with them.
Avoid stupid people (they'll easily kill you on a jobsite so avoiding them doesn't mean not to watch out for them).
They were methheads before becoming welders.
man I've been welding for 7 years now and the most hardcore shit I do is sometimes having a cigarette after the last shift of the week, I don't even drink alcohol anymore
learn to code welding bots
>instead of paying a guy $30 an hour to weld, let's pay a guy $40 an hour to program it, a repairman $300 an hour to fix it when it breaks, and a guy $25 an hour to operate it!
>so it can weld better then any $30 hour guy ever could with a lower risk of getting from drugs or arrested
>robots
>reliable
>never frick up or break down
Want to know how I know you don't work in robotics?
Robots are way more unreliable than people unless you're a large enough company to constantly have tech support on location. Even CNC laser cutting machines break down constantly and you need to call up people who charge hundreds of dollars an hour to show up and just go "Yeah this is the P152 model, oh bot that's a beauty. Just sucks that they don't make BZ breakers anymore, gotta have them custom made. That'll be 2000 dollars and it'll take a week to get them. Also your aux mirror needs replaced, that's why you keep getting those wide cuts towards the end of your program since its heating up and warping, and that'll be another 10'000" and its just non-stop shit like that. Everything you'd think they'd have figured out and updated with modern software knowhow is completely gone. Want to change the program 10 years into the robots life time, cool gotta get a laptop running some weird custom windows XP with custom drivers that cost thousands of dollars and has an interface that is straight out of Win 3.1 and uses proprietary compression just because their biggest client wanted hackers to be incapable of using the files
Industrial machines are a pain in the ass to deal with. Yeah they work great when they work, but you need like 10 years of experience to even use them properly or someone who has is around to teach you every single frick up you can possibly make and how each machine on the floor differs. You can't even error search a lot fo them properly because they're fricking built to never specify a fricking thing about anything. Even 5000 dollar welding machines that comes with a list of error codes will still spit out codes that aren't even listen in the fricking manual. Oh cool ERr 25 again, I'll just go the manual and see what's wrong so it doesn't happen again. Oh ERr 24 means I overheated a compontent and ERr 26 means I overheated the torch handle. That's great information, sure sucks that they for some reason skipped ERr 25 for no fricking reason
that's the business though but it's going to change in the near future as ros is already deprecating those companies
they're all howling mad about it and saying they will never support ros et cetera.
How do you become the guy who troubleshoots CNC machines?
Study engineering in college and do some machining for your projects. Build your own CNC machine. Apply for job as technician at a company that makes them. Enjoy life as a repair-salesman while traveling around fixing fricked machines in shop with unbelievable morons working in them and learning to hate your career.
Useful if you gotta make a weld 4000 times thougbeit
> working in automotive factory
> hundreds of robots welding shit
> lines put out thousands of auto parts everyday
> each robot make the same welds on the same part for years
> their entire job and existence is to each make one weld
> somehow still frick it up
Watching robots attempt welding has convinced me skynet will never exist. This isn't some mom and pop shop either, this is in a billion dollar manufacturing corporation
Those aren't ai though. Just some programmer's algorithms
"Learn to code" was always bad advice, especially in 2010 just after the market crashed.
Getting into a job you don't like just for the money is always bad advice.
AI isn't replacing anyone's job. A bunch of managers over hired to inflate their egos. Now the economy is going to shit, they need to fire those hires. So they get to say "oh we are replacing them with AI" which allows them to pretend to be smart and hip to the new thing.
The current round of AI boosterism is just a bunch of (admittedly impressive) party tricks. Getting AI to write your code is great as long as you don't care if the code is correct.
AI isn't replacing programming jobs for White people, it's replacing HR goons, middle managers, and checkbox tickers. Sure, you could argue that there aren't any entry level programming jobs, but that's due to probably 10 million imported third world coders and IT critters (the ones being replaced).
It's pretty funny watching blue collar types (or paid shills larping as blue collar types) rage against white collar workers, when you getting booted off social media was due to a lack of White Republican white collar workers. Same reason you don't want to give up control of major institutions to your enemies or their third world allies: there will be no one around to monkeywrench things when those institutions turn against you.
Also: basil.
>it's replacing HR goons, middle managers, and checkbox tickers.
So white """"people""""
White woman
ai will replace neither, but it will help with learning and training for coding in the future
Ye
i am literally leaving the tech industry to become a welder lmao. tech shit just isn't fun
I'm a neet.
my mom owns a construction company.
she bought me a house and I just neet all day.
when I'm bored I do diy stuff. sometimes I make her leather accessories.
she regularly stops by and cooks me food.
anyone else?
what will you do when she dies? you don't know how to run the company do you?
tbf he could just pay someone to run it and live off dividends and bonds
what kinda leather accessories do you make for your lesbo dyke mother
wienersleeve for now, and a set of dilators in a few years when his dad is fully done transitioning.
Capitalism harms workers of all types, yes
i redesigned my mining equipment designs to be pretty much entirely riveted instead of welded, thanks to computers and cad software making the added design complexity easier to draw
it's amazing what you can make with just carefully designed sheet metal
oh and if you're wondering why, well, welders are expensive, having someone assemble something with rivets is cheaper because it's unskilled
Dipshit lawyer gets caught using chatgpt
>chatgpt will replace [$135k/year salaried job]!
>assembly line robotic welders will replace $80/hr tradesmen!
you knobs are all the same saying the same dumb shit
me? i sell pictures of women's feet i found on google to people on onlyfans.
FootGPT will put you out of business sir!
It's still a million times better to have a computer science degree
cope, moron
a cs major can get a welding ticket in a few months
What's that got to do with what I said
Welding is so Black person tier as a trade that there's nothing else to discuss. This is why every time we bring up quality of life and money the welders start giving you all these feminine, gay copes about living simple and lowering your standards.
hvac homies will inherit the earth
Will keep my $315k programming job, thanks. I'll learn to weld when it pays $320k.
Worthless because the maker of that image cannot think without wojacks telling him what is right and what is not. KYS your self, OP.
I worked a trade for years and hated it. The work itself is fine, fun even, but the environments and people suck. Domestic work would sometimes be painful dealing with some nigard or moron and commercial/industrial wad an upgrade but it became more demanding and the coworkers were bad. Almost everyone was an alcoholic at best, a smoker at minimum, or a coke head blowing his paycheck at the hotel before he even went home. Sometimes demands were just unreasonable too.
Work is for money and I would rather sit at a desk fiddling around doing boring easy crap to save my energy for my hobbies. Doing PrepHole for work just killed my desire to do it at home. At least I have a full toolbox now though, although I never bought my own welder but I've never needed one yet and I doubt I've lost it entirely.
Which trade? Roofer?
Plumber/welder. I'm not just talking about other mechanical tradies though the electricians did more drugs although less alcohol and half of the civils were like cave men. I lost count of how many times we had to fix up or redig the trench we were given it got to the point where we had our own digger driver because of it.
I really genuinely do enjoy welding and the best days were when we had a welders den outside and I was just being fed stainless pieces and flanges on the ground to just mindlessly tig weld together. I would love track of time just pounding out butts all day long. That was maybe 30% of the work though. I suppose I'd be at home in a fabrication yard or something but a big part of the appeal of trade work is seeing something come into existence and how every site is a bit of a new thing. If I'm groundhog day then I'd rather be in an air condition office half asleep.
Really though it wasn't the work that killed it it was the fact I'm a weirdo and I just couldn't fit in nor did I really want to which hasn't changed much but you really need to work in a team in trades because you physically can't do it alone a lot of the time.
if you aren't self employed being a tradie is gay, start you're own company. (I worked in startup world for a decade)
Machines already do a lot of welding
Also most of a software developer's job nowadays is configuration rather than coding.
>muh welding is better!
>muh programming is better!
What a homosexual dispute.
Learn both, build killbots.
I'm on the team rolling out Microsoft cognitive services at my corporation and it will unironically replace coders in the next 10 years. All bullshit aside coding is no longer a viable long term job prospect.
In 10 years chatgpt 17 will be in Tesla bot version 9 and they’ll be doing all jobs. We might live in a post scarcity utopia like Star Trek, or the hellscape of terminator.
>AI is taking up programming
Will never happen. You don't even have to finish school. I know dropouts who got 100gorillion dollars/ month wfh jobs where they jerk off all day.
I made about 78k last year working a trade.
My brother finished his bachelor, starting pay was 1900 a month.
I think meme is true
What did he get his bachelor's in?
>tfw electrician with PLC cert
whynotboth.gif
>make 20x less money going into a field that is also saturated with no jobs, but can be done by people with down syndrome
Good thread op, Welding has been the last resort job for morons for a long time
Markets change, people need to adapt
Not sure if this thread is still alive, but I live in an apartment and work a 9-5. I wanna learn to weld, but not sure where I can do it... Anyone in a similar situation had success?
First read exhaustively (fora like Weldingweb are outstanding) and watch videos then you'll know enough to choose from available hardware to suit your situation.
Welding can pay but not running a wire welder in a fab shop. It does however go magnificently with other DIY skills (for example every mechanic should learn to weld).
Pipe and other high end welding are feast or famine but most welders aren't good enough to pass pipe tests.
>>tfw electrician with PLC cert
^Wisdom. Learn to weld and spin wrenches and you'll always have work. They all go together in industry.
>Welding can pay but not running a wire welder in a fab shop
Does tig count as running wire?
>Welding can pay but not running a wire welder in a fab shop.
please elaborate for the simple ones me
are mig/tig not profitable? where's the money in welding (other than deep sea stuff)/
TIG can be quite profitable as can TIG + stick in the pipe welding world. If you care, you'll read. I did.
All welding is profitable as long as you know when to use which process. The issue with making money doing MIG is that you as a welder are going to doing mostly low quality work that focuses much more on speed and volume of output rather than the best possible welds. Its an extremely easy to learn skill, especially if your shop is doing well enough to afford fancy synergic machines with pulse settings. Its simply not a very high skill level, people mostly just quit because its a hassle to do it. All that means that your pay is unlikely to be high but it can be. Once you get into TIG welding and you're welding stainless, aluminium, titanium, and other stuff, that's when you actually get out of the minimum wage moron zone.
Its about adding skills together. Don't do one thing, learn many skills that work with each other. Welder, mechanic, electrican, hydrualics tech, rigger, machine operator, etc etc. Don't just be a welder, be a millwright or a fitter or a fabricator.
/g/entooman here, AI is not going to replace programmers. God knows I tried to replace myself at my job lmao.
Life is a contribution, and everyone must play a part. One can’t exist without the other.
>joined the military
>just have to make it 20 years and I'll get out with a decent pension, free healthcare for life for myself and my kids and my spouse
Sounds like a cheat code but after 5 years it's starting to grind on me (and my joints). Just 15 more years to go
>tfw
Donm you still have to promote or quit every year?
Not really. You have x amount of years to stay at x rank before the Army gives you the boot, but it's so long that your have to be an incomprehensible moron baboon to hit those time gates. I hit E5 within 3.5 years- it's not hard to promote fast when you have half a brain.
I spent 6 years in the Marine Corps. Make sure you're utilizing your VA home loan and BAH to build equity in a home near your base. If you move duty stations then rent the old house and reuse your VA home loan, repeat the process. Also make sure you're going to medical and getting your injuries documented, it'll help when you file with the VA when you get out. If you make it to 20 years you'll have your pension, VA disability, and rent money coming in. Don't forget to utilize your gi bill to get educated, I really recommend checking out the warrant officer pipeline if you can hack it.
learn to code an automated welder?
Why limit yourself to one skillset to earn money with?
I worked in a fabrication shop while putting myself through college. The skills I developed were awesome but not really applicable to my degree (BS in Respiratory Therapy).
Six years ago I started working as a contractor doing travel contracts and, while the contracts pay well, I found I only ended up working ~6 months/year and wanted income between contracts.
Hit up a couple old coworkers and started working in between contracts. The money isn't quite as good but welding is a hell of a lot less stressful.
Not even close to reality. While software programmers are probably useless now, robot and PLC programmers are in extremely high demand. Where I live, they are paying $130K USD to start after 3 months probation at $90K
I just got out of that industry into software after 5 years. The reason? They literally want you to do 10 people's job. They want you to be an electrician, fab guy, safety controls engineer, process controls engineer, construction manager, electrical engineer, project manager, finance guy, an operator sometimes, and a plc programmer. That's if you're tied to a plant. If you're an integrator, expect all those jobs crammed into a smaller timeline while on-site all over the world now. Factory management tends to be coneiving, and somewhat too machevelian for my taste. If you need the money, go for it. There's a reason every old head in that trade got out or are completely bitter at the world/divorced. It's a high stress job with minimal rewards. Also, plcs will be replaced with embedded systems in ur lifetime for complex processes, Allen Bradley got too greedy.
They're definitely overworking them but that's because of the shortage. Your experience is a bit excessive so I wonder if you were at a small shop. I'm a controls engineer intercompany manager and it's the only thing I do. I push back on anything extra and I'm almost at $320k USD salary. I also have the entire summer off for vacation because it only gets busy in fall, winter, spring. I do check emails and stuff and occasionally do some minor things on vacation. They also pay for all travel expenses and bonuses. I make way more than any software dev by far, can never be unemployed, and mostly work with young people now anyways. Anything too stressful, tedious or grunty we just subcontract to Indians
Allen Bradley is not going away for anything safety critical. Neither is Siemens.
But you got some things right on the divorced bitter old boomers who let themselves be fricked instead of having a quiet union among coworkers. That's why small companies are a million times worse but they're improving now. Compensation for 5-10 years is worth it to retire 15 years early
>1$ has been put into your corporate account, the post
Lol nice b8, I bit.
Meanwhile, go on linked in and find a controls position with 2 years experience required that is more than 90k. Also plcs are on there way out for safety critical items already
What's teh new goodness for controlling critical processes?
Except ai isn't replacing programming jobs.
>ig:@trad_west
cringe