Apparently hunter gatherers existed everywhere throughout Europe. Then out of nowhere these yamnaya people and their horses and chariots moved in murdering all the males and raping all the females? How does that happen so easily and over a continent?
There were hunter-gatherers only in Scandinavia by the time the Indo-Europeans arrived (c.3000 BC). Yamnaya didn't have chariots. Sintashta were the first about a thousand years later, and they weren't in Europe.
>How does that happen so easily and over a continent?
Thanks to horses and chariots, they were nomadic and could move around while the Neolithic Farmers were sedentary. They may have used hit-and-run tactics. Also maybe disease played a role. No one knows for certain how it went down.
Ahhhh ok. My bad. But I remember reading how the whole male population of European hunter gatherers simply dissappear from a genetic point of view and a huge increase and admission of a different haplogroup. Also, they found Graves around the time period filled with males with blunt force trauma. No females.
>Sintashta were the first about a thousand years later, and they weren't in Europe.
Sintashta formed in modern Belarus.
Do you know why it’s called Sintashta? It’s named after the Sintashta river in a Russian oblast bordering Kazakhstan.
It's not right to call them Sintashta at that point. Sintashta came from Abashevo culture, which came from Fatyanovo, which came from Middle Dnieper culture, but out of all of them Sintashta was the first with chariots.
>Sintashta were the first about a thousand years later, and they weren't in Europe.
They lived in the foothills of the Ural mountains, that's as close as you can get to being in Europe without being Europe.
Also maps
Good shit
Thanks
No one really knows. In northern Scandinavia the archaeological record goes empty right around the time when Finno-Ugrics arrived. There was probably at least some assimilation of native hunter-gatherers as there are loanwords into the Saami language of an unknown origin -- probably from an EHG or SHG language. IIRC the words have to do mostly with local terrain and wildlife.
When in this map the finno-ugric wipes ocer the EHG, was it a migration or an invasion or something else?
Where did indo-europeans come from?
also yes good shit
Somewhere within, or right on the edge of the Eurasian Steppe
brainlet here, which countries are there today?
Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan
nvm found on google.
huh, old great bulgaria started there, i am bulgarian
Between the Don River and the Dnieper. Sredni Stog is the earliest actual PIE culture that can be identified, regardless of whether you think it was a CHG language or an EHG language.
I'm on your side but don't make me have to post the 10 different origin migration maps
>Where did Indo-Europeans come from? From the Caucasus.
I miss being a Neolithic Farmer
I live in an area where 4 haplogroups intersect. Is it over for me?
Do an ancestry test to find out.
>Ok so we found some old spoons in southern Europe ... we find spoons dated later all over Europe.
>Historian: yes we'll the only explanation is there was a race of "early proto-spoon Europeans" (EPSE) who spread and exterminated and replaced the "eat with hands" culture by slaughtering the men and raping the women and little girls too bloody rape to genetically replace them with the new strong seed of the EPSE!
Demented.
Let's face it, historians are just a bunch of sick NTR-fetishists.
Or maybe you're just a denialgay. It wouldn't be difficult at all to genocide a group of hunter-gatherers considering low population density.
Just funny that every other time in history cultural change does not entail complete ethnic genocide and replacement. But when there is an absence of evidence historians fill in the gap with speculations of mass rape and genocide.
God I wish that (the eat with hands girls) was me
/thread
Haplogroups should NEVER mix
you simply can't get around the abnormal and disproportionate replacement of neolithic male lineages towards few bottlenecked lineages traceable directly to ~3000BC east Europe, disease, etc... just can't cut it except to maybe add another weakening factor to late neolithic societies
and shouldn't surprise that much, Spaniards did something similar in south America, where you also find a disproportion of Spaniard male lineages compared to European ancestry, IE did it first and even more thoroughly, ironically with the best example being Spain itself, with near 100% male replacement but only about 1/4 or so overall steppe ancestry
There is like a 10-15% of Neolithic haplogroups in Spain like I2 for example.
I am a good example ofSpain since I am R1b paternally and have also a maternal Hunter Gatherer haplogroup (which looking at distant matches I have lots of Scandi cousins with this maternal HG haplo, probably Samis).
Later migrations probably brought those back into Spain from the data. After Bell Beakers arrive nearly all of the samples are R1b.
>How does that happen so easily and over a continent?
The populations were not as large. Probably just a few million in all of Europe. The EEF farmers lived in fortified villages of a few thousand and a siege might kill most of them while you can pick your choice of the women. The HGs lived in smaller communities and you could wipe most of them out if you encountered them, which is why their DNA is most prevalent in the extremes of the continent where they made their last refugees. Disease may have also played a big role as well.
Did the Spanish really just move into the Americas and murder and rape everyone?
Did the Turks really just move into Central Asia and Anatolia and murder and rape everyone?
We have clear examples from modern history and middle ages, why is it so hard to believe the same happened in prehistory?
It wasn't like nazi genocide, even in Lithuania people are like a third neolithic farmer.
>It wasn't like nazi genocide
In some regions it was worse lol, eg Great Britain, where the Bell beakers killed up to 90% of the neolithic population