This has probably discussed dozen of times here, but I never paid attention until now. Now, I am prepping for severe power outages (guess why) that can last a few days, and I cannot afford that, because those work meetings won't host themselves. I am looking for help on what works best for the following scenario:
- 220v power grid
- 250wh for keep critical stuff charged and occasional spikes to boil a cup of tea (is that moronic?)
- do that for at least a few work days, so I am looking at maybe 4kwah
- some kind of inverter that can both up-charge the shit from the grid and provide sockets (I'd presume I need to go safe for 2000W one?)
- a way to fit a gasoline into it later on, not right away
- money's no object
Say I use 4 100ah deep cycle batteries, that's 400ah / 4.8kwah. Some kind of 2000W inverter/charger. How can I make it work with a gasoline generator? I'd presume generators have inverters on their own, but that's moronic, is there a way to not do gas -> AC -> AC -> DC ?
Too many fricking questions, but anons plz halp. Share your setups.
>- 250wh for keep critical stuff charged and occasional spikes to boil a cup of tea (is that moronic?)
Using batteries for boiling water, yes. Get a camping stove if you just want some tea during a power outage.
>- money's no object
then just buy a generator straight off and worry about the battery shit later.
> then just buy a generator straight off and worry about the battery shit later.
I read that they give noisy output and batteries make great buffer. Also I ain't firing up the noisy WROOM to just charge my phone, also the outage could be short, so spent gas wouldn't be justified.
>I read that they give noisy output
depends largely on the generator. Buying a cheap chinkshit generator will give you cheap chinkshit results. You want one that outputs a clean sine wave at 50/60hz. For alot of popular models I'm sure you can find people hooking up a scope at various loads to see the noise.
>Also I ain't firing up the noisy WROOM to just charge my phone, also the outage could be short, so spent gas wouldn't be justified.
You can go with a much less expensive solution if all you need to do is charge your phone. $100 will buy you either a decent enough portable battery bank specifically designed for charging electronics, or more than enough solar panels to keep your phone charged all day erry day.
You can go with the battery backup route first, but if you're looking at power outages that last several days, you should definitely just look for a generator right off the bat to go with your battery system. Oh yeah, and most generators output in AC already, not DC(alternator vs generator/dynamo). The most efficient and easiest solution is to probably just plug your battery charger directly into the generator.
Thanks. Some companies offer turnkey solutions that already have a battery pack, an inventer, and means to just plug it into home ac, essentially making it one huge UPS for the whole home, and it's all automatic. I find that very compelling, because I won't have to worry on how to wire the fridge. Having seen that I wonder if I can expand the project.
I am looking at $4k at some turnkey offerings, which I am willing to pay as long at its justified. Is it? A good 200Ah battery here goes $350 a pop, so that makes it $1.5k ish for a pack of 4, then add an inverter on top, a 4000W one, I'd imagine it will cost no less than $1k. Some wires some outlets. Do they just take the rest as profit, or is there expenses I am not seeing?
>charge your phone
And what will you be doing with your phone or computer in a prolonged power outage?
>wire the fridge
This is basically the only thing that matters. And assuming you have gas or oil heat, your furnace in the winter.
You can wire in huge batteries to UPSes to get long runtimes as you know. You need an inverter generator to recharge and run electric stuff. There may be specialty stuff that just outputs to DC, but homeowner type stuff will output clean-ish AC that electronics will accept.
Lead acid is way outdated for this kind of use now, don't buy into anything that isn't LiFePo.
If you don't really intend/need to put your whole house on the UPS, I really wouldn't waste money on a $4k turnkey solution. You just need a battery and an outlet, you can buy half-decent 2-5kWh LFP batteries on Amazon for less than $1k. Check out youtube reviews, there are a couple channels doing teardowns.
Likewise they sell inverters that explicitly work like this, when AC is available they charge the battery, when AC is out they switch over to backup. In Europe Volt Polska makes (spec-wise) very good inverters like this that only cost like $250 for a 2500W one, no idea about reliability. Aliexpress and Amazon have similar ones for a similar price
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002844002975.html
Victron makes the best quality UPS inverters, but they're maybe 5x the price and I don't think they have battery charging. It's better to get a 24-48V system in terms of efficiency and wiring, at 4kWh I'd probably go with 24V. At 24V you'll want the inverter to go up to ~26-27V charging voltage for LFP, the battery's BMS manages the actual charging but 25V would be too low to fully charge an LFP.
LFP batteries don't like going above 1C, so if you have a 2000Wh battery, you shouldn't draw more than 2000W from it. But a regular PC only draws ~100W, a laptop maybe 20W.
On the other hand, if you're already putting all the money into a turnkey system, maybe fork out a bit more and get some solar panels, then you can expect some returns on the battery and inverter system. Though you can also do that with the PrepHole one.
Thanks so it seems LFP is the way to go. Big think.
Yes the immediate concern is the fridge and then laptop, some lights. But that's it.
>and then laptop
Again, why?
They do lots, why not?
I am a code monkeys that needs to attend meeting or I am fired (eventually).
>attend meeting
How? Have you thought this through at all? Id you're in a sustained power outage in your area, what do you expect to be connecting to?
Cell sites have battery for 36hrs AT MOST in ideal conditions. Your cable company may have generators, but, depending on your area's deployment, the repeaters across the network will fail in that same 24-48hr timeline if they have battery at all.
About the only thing that works in a sustained outage is landline telephone because the voltages comes down the signal lines. But you don't need a computer for that.
Starlink works :^)
Super.
And when you can get one below 50°N latitude you let me know.
>And when you can get one below 50°N latitude you let me know.
Starlink's been available in more than half of CONUS for months now, the rest by Spring 2023. If you're going to act indignant you best be correct when acting like a dildo.
What are you even talking about? I'm 30 miles north of california, and I've got it. My parents are a 100 miles north of LA, and they've got it.
>What are you even talking about?
>available
Wait list.
You're a fricking moron. You claimed it wasn't available. I gave you two examples of people who have it. You're either here to troll this thread, or you're a mongoloid who somehow figured out how to use a computer.
>it wasn't available
Wait. List.
None of those shaded areas are waitlisted. You're such a fricking Black person. I wish there was a more offensive word to call you, you fricking doubleBlack person. You've been presented with live proof none of the bullshit you're spewing is factual in any way and you carry on in your fantasy land anyway
Waaaaait. Liiiiist.
I don't know how it works in other areas, but in northern Canada, most of the communications infrastructure can run for days on backup diesel generators
I didn't think about that too much and frankly I am afraid to find out. Doing what I can. The internet/cell might go away, but the moment that happens I hope I'd still have time to figure out starlink or something. Or not, but we'd still have lights and shit during the night.
I already ordered 2.4kwh LFP battery so hopefully by the time it arrives I'd find a good inverter/charger for it. And then slap some generator on top. The setup is minimal, but I am going thru some family red tape where I have to justify shit I buy with my own money to the old fricks, so they might overreact over starlink now.
>I didn't think about that too much
No fricking kidding.
But it doesn't seem to be causing you any pause in cracking open your wallet and shelling out thousands of dollars to build a system to a somehow both vauge and baseless spec.
Your autistic tantrum aside having a few days worth of backup power for refrigerator/freezer and a few lights is something everyone should have. Just because you have a theory on cell sites going dead after 24 hours doesn't negate that
>theory
It's not a theory. It's a fact. 5G only exacerbates the situation.
Sure, whatever mate. Let's shrink the requirements and focus on the fridge&lights only, just expect 48h of backup for the internet. If I've got no internet for 2 days maybe it would be the time to frick off. The old folks, however, wouldn't want to go so the generator would still be needed for 'basic' stuff.
>focus on the fridge&lights only
Excellent. Now you have a reasonable set of specifications.
>just expect 48h of backup for the internet
Read a fricking book you child.
>48h of backup for the internet
Unless you have fiber to a node with a backup power supply, when your area loses power, the internet is going to be down, too.
That's true, my apologies I wasn't clear, there will still be cellular, presumably, for some time, before it goes down too.
Also, holy shit starlink is only $60 now.
Okay found this bad boy (Kijo LiFePO4-24V200Ah) that goes for a little under $1.5k here where i live, which is kinda twice as expensive as lead acid, but I am thinking of YOLOing it. It has BMS so all I need is something similar to your link
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002844002975.html
but for 24V?
What kind of wires I need for that bad boy? BMS has short circuit protection, do I still need a fuse?
For LFP you can actually use the full capacity, so it's not more expensive when you compare it to the equivalent 8kW lead acid bank, where you can only cycle 50%. I don't think you strictly need a fuse, maybe for extra peace of mind. And yeah, for the inverter try to make sure whatever you buy has LFP compatibility, or at least buy from a place with easy returns, ie. not China. I checked and Victron does make UPS inverters like what you need, but indeed they cost $900 for 1600W output.
Wires, if you actually intend to use 2000W then something like AWG2 if it's a short run (up to 1-2 meters), pure copper.
Oh yeah, you're right. Thanks again.
Sorry anon I couldn't handle the insufferable c**t. I HaVe SeVeRaL bOoKs In My LiBrAry On ThE ToPiC.
Depending on what you get, it might be cheaper to downsize the battery to 2kW and buying a generator, and then just running the generator if you run out of battery. Depends on how you're going to use the thing. But again, for actual savings the way to go is to give it some solar panels.
Another issue is, a 24V charger/inverter I was able to find locally right now (Net Pro UPS IR 2024C 2000W) doesn't mention a word about batteries with BMS. It can work with lead acid, though. Can I just slap that to a LFP battery with BMS and expect it to work? As long as the UPS charged can supply voltage the BMS needs.
I wonder if I should go 12V and see how many options I've got there.
> Started going down that rabbit hole
It is a fricking rabbit hole
Yep. I was considering the mobile type with batteries in a bed toolbox which would stay topped off by the alternator. Then you could have power on the road, and at home. Just make sure your tank is full. I have a diesel, only downside is turbos don't do well to sit and idle. However it wouldn't done regularly. Good luck, share what you come up with.
It shouldn't matter at all for the UPS, the UPS just has to provide voltage and current in the right range. I can't read the ukranian manual, try looking for charge settings, you basically want as dumb a charging process as possible. But even with the "smarter" types it might work fine, really you'll only know once you buy the thing. So make sure you first have the battery on hand, then when the UPS arrives you can test it and send it back if it doesn't work.
Yes, thought about warning about him being a long winded blowhard, and having to be in the mood to listen. The gouge is good though, and he's got the credentials iirc.
>pic Diet Pepsi can to prop up lid
>Actually mentions it as he's talking
Talk about having to be in the mood to listen this is going to be a damn marathon
> occasional spikes to boil a cup of tea (is that moronic?)
Get a camping gas stove
11kg are enough to cook for 36h.
Thats easily a month.
>deep cycle batteries
Bro are you aware of what decade you're in or what. You know lead acid batteries are COMPLETELY obsolete for this purpose right? And I hope you realize lead acid batteries can only be discharged 50% of their capacity or they die permanently, and only last 3-5 years.
Holy shit. Please post pics of whatever disaster you assemble. I'd like to see it prior to the fire.
There's a truck setup by Steven Harris (a bit dated at this point). Started going down that rabbit hole researching parts but shelved the idea. Might revisit it though. I have a Whisper 2k watt inverter to run an extension cord to the house. Power went out this weekend - didn't run my fridge (but did run the chest freezer).
Links, demo and 2 parts:
https://vimeo.com/84796815
https://vimeo.com/316188083
https://vimeo.com/316189576
Funny thing, he mentions LiPo coming about in about 10 years.
PICREL is of his site. Had to go through waybackmachine...
If money is no object just install a solar panel setup on your roof and 3 tesla powerwalls.
This will cost your around 50k
>tesla powerwalls
>lithium ion, much lower lifespan than LFP
>13.5kWh for $8500 + installation fee which can be $2000+
>closed source and unserviceable
Even being the laziest you could possibly be and pay a markup for convenience you can buy three server rack batteries which would give you 15kWh's of energy storage and that would be $4500. What a waste of money that Tesla shit is.
Most generators that aren't complete chinesium shit will have a DC outlet that you can use to charge battery banks
You'll need a separate DC-specific extension cord though
Depending on where you live you may want to look into solar, as it's getting more and more affordable and passively recharges your batteries
Solar-inverter setups are also extremely easy to wire. I did one at camp two years ago as a biology major with zero experience in electrical work